West Ham v Saints Post Match Thread

[saintant]

Only just into 4 pages to this thread so far after yesterday's complete shambles shows that the general apathy at the club is spreading to the fans. Who can blame them after the shabby treatment they've received in the past few seasons. Greed at the highest level is one of the factors that has led us to the brink of dropping into the Championship. It smacks of asset stripping. I fear we are on the verge of sinking like we did in 2003 after the FA Cup Final. The club may find it difficult to shift season tickets next time. A very sad and rapid decline which was wholly avoidable. Time for a mass clear out of the leeches who are sucking the life blood from our great club. They know who they are - no need to name them.

Edited 1 April, 2018 by saintant

[Shroppie]

Only just into 4 pages to this thread so far after yesterday's complete shambles shows that the general apathy at the club is spreading to the fans. Who can blame them after the shabby treatment they've received in the past few seasons. Greed at the highest level is one of the factors that has led us to the brink of dropping into the Championship. It smacks of asset stripping. I fear we are on the verge of sinking like we did in 2003 after the FA Cup Final. The club may find it difficult to shift season tickets next time. A very sad and rapid decline which was wholly avoidable. Time for a mass clear out of the leeches who are sucking the life blood from our great club. They know who they are - no need to name them.

And another reason is that most of the loudest contributors after defeats in the past have screamed about starting two up front being the answer to everything, so they don't have much to say.

 

Hopefully yesterday did at least blow that theory up for good.

 

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Edited 1 April, 2018 by Shroppie

[Window Cleaner]

And another reason is that most of the loudest contributors after defeats in the past have screamed about starting two up front being the answer to everything, so they don't have much to say.

 

Hopefully yesterday did at least blew that theory up for good.

 

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If it didn't the Everton debacle against City certainly did. What was BFS thinking, 4 front men (and Rooney)with no defensive abilities against one of the best sides in Europe. I thought Austin was just rubbish yesterday and Gabbiadini just wasn't, well wasn't anywhere to b seen. Hojbjerg ? Just don't get why he's even still here to be honest. Even old man Davies is a better player.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I thought Austin was just rubbish yesterday

 

 

Nonsense. Him Long and the keeper were the only 3 to come out with any credit at all. He was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of effort and application

 

 

 

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Edited 1 April, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[beatlesaint]

Nonsense. Him Long and the keeper were the only 3 to come out with any credit at all. He was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of errors and application

 

 

 

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people have conveniently forgotten that was Austin’s first game in just over three months as well.

Someone yesterday said he was out of form !!!!! WTF ?

[corky morris]

Switch to 3-5-2 now. Can’t get any worse.

Keep Tadic miles away from the team..........even then we are probably still rubbish!

[Shroppie]

people have conveniently forgotten that was Austin’s first game in just over three months as well.

Someone yesterday said he was out of form !!!!! WTF ?

Agreed. Was ridiculous to start him.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

We need some real men in the side, we’re a team of ****ing son in laws. Whose going to shake a few up, both opposition players & their own. JWP being the poster boy of the club ****ing sums the whole place up. Although technically limited Yoshida is tough, he must start, as must OR. Long & Austin need to play, they’re about the only two we’ve got that have got an attitude that winds up opposition supporters (apart from Tadic rolling around like a big fairy). Davo, although over the hill, won’t shirk and hide like most did yesterday.

 

 

 

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[obelisk]

Two up front is only a problem if you continuously & needlessly hand possession to the opposition and then don't have the pace or desire to cover the endless mistakes.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Agreed. Was ridiculous to start him.

 

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So despite being the only player that made any effort to actually shoot, despite putting a great shift in and putting the rest to shame, despite being the only one that physically tried to match their players , despite giving the supporters some hope, you’re complaining about him starting?

 

 

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[Shroppie]

Two up front is only a problem if you continuously & needlessly hand possession to the opposition and then don't have the pace or desire to cover the endless mistakes.

Or have no-one able to distribute the ball to the front men.

 

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[shurlock]

Or have no-one able to distribute the ball to the front men.

 

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Or our insistence on hitting long ball after long ball which was clearly an instruction from the manager.

[obelisk]

Or have no-one able to distribute the ball to the front men.

 

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That too. Saints used to pass it endlessly back and sideways while ignoring the lone striker but now the ball just gets handed directly to the opposition.

[5string]

Or our insistence on hitting long ball after long ball which was clearly an instruction from the manager.

 

A recent video showed Hughes telling a player [Pied?], if in trouble play it forwards instead of back. So our quality, intelligent professional footballers interpret that has 'hoof it'.

[benjii]

We need some real men in the side, we’re a team of ****ing son in laws. Whose going to shake a few up, both opposition players & their own. JWP being the poster boy of the club ****ing sums the whole place up. Although technically limited Yoshida is tough, he must start, as must OR. Long & Austin need to play, they’re about the only two we’ve got that have got an attitude that winds up opposition supporters (apart from Tadic rolling around like a big fairy). Davo, although over the hill, won’t shirk and hide like most did yesterday.

 

 

 

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Agreed. It's got to cliche time... we need a few Benalis out there who actually give a **** and can translate it to effort and commitment on the pitch.

[kyle04]

Last week WHU seemed as desperate, hammered at home and the fans baying for blood. They responded with guts and determination and dare I say it, pride in the shirt.

Our players response to a new manager was total apathy until we were 3-0 down. Something is very wrong right now. At no point this season have we played well for 3-4 consecutive games, which we need to do to have any chance of survival. Looking at the table we still have a theoretical chance but the spirit and motivation just aren't there. If MH turns this around he deserves all credit.

[nta786]

I am back down to Kent now following yesterdays debacle.

I stayed till the final whistle, Long came over and gave his shirt, Bertrand came over, began shaking his head towards us fans and showed his disappointment tbf to him, then went in.

Cedric walks over with his mates West Ham top on, after giving in one of his most shi*test performances.

That crap was the worst I have seen in front of my eyes, having what has basically condemned us to Championship football next season.

 

These are players just so shot in confidence playing against a team who was up for it.

 

I did not understand why we were playing so deep, Tadic and Redmond were in our halves more than theirs- I think fans chanting ‘pass it back to McCarthy- hes open!’ summed it up.

[The Cat]

Apparently some woman got punched by a bloke in our end after the game. Anyone see it?

[The Cat]

Agreed. It's got to cliche time... we need a few Benalis out there who actually give a **** and can translate it to effort and commitment on the pitch.

 

Romeu has to play if we're going 2 up front because the midfield is overrun and we need someone with a bit of strength in there who can win the ball.

 

He's worse on the ball than the other 2, but seeing as all we're doing is walloping it aimlessly to our isolated strikers it doesn't matter.

[The Cat]

While I'm on the subject of tactics, why are we playing 4-4-2 with 2 'wide' men in midfield who spend all their time tucking in? On the rare occasions our full backs had the ball there was rarely a pass on up the line because Tadic and Redmond were wandering around the midfield. Get it wide, cross it in from 18 yards out or from in behind them. Don't rely on hoofing it forward on the off chance it will fall to one of our players. FFS.

[shurlock]

Romeu has to play if we're going 2 up front because the midfield is overrun and we need someone with a bit of strength in there who can win the ball.

 

He's worse on the ball than the other 2, but seeing as all we're doing is walloping it aimlessly to our isolated strikers it doesn't matter.

 

Eh? Romeu is technically better than PEH and Lemina. He’s the best passer of the ball of the three. The problem is that he’s not mobile or athletic enough to play in a two man CM where you need to cover much more ground to avoid being overrun.

[John Boy Saint]

Last week WHU seemed as desperate, hammered at home and the fans baying for blood. They responded with guts and determination and dare I say it, pride in the shirt.

Our players response to a new manager was total apathy until we were 3-0 down. Something is very wrong right now. At no point this season have we played well for 3-4 consecutive games, which we need to do to have any chance of survival. Looking at the table we still have a theoretical chance but the spirit and motivation just aren't there. If MH turns this around he deserves all credit.

Add to that; Despite him being a less than popular chap outside WH, you just have to look at their Captain, Mark Noble, the fiasco of the Burnley game you could pretty much guarantee would have made his blood boil, for his supposed limitations as Captain of his boyhood club you get the impression that he ain’t going to let any bugger in that team hide.

[Hamwic]

On Radio 5 the summariser, Pat Nevin,called it early in the first half; all very well having two up top but you need to get the ball to them. Tadic and Redmond seem incapable on that front. He later identified that our midfield was so easily overrun and offered little or no protection. He might well have added that Cedric, Hoedt and Bertrand seem incapable of defending and the latter was 'unable to deal with the 35 year old Zabaleta. There was also the notable absence of any leader on the pitch. If we go down, many of these players will be off for discount prices so really don't worry too much.

[Pamplemousse]

Regardless of whether we manage to stay up or not, the squad needs a massive overhaul in the summer.

[Chez]

We are so used to having the extra man in midfield and someone to pass to, all be it often backwards, now players get on the ball and can't find an open man. The man in possession is left with limited choices, play a risky pass, hoof it safe or hold on to it that little bit too long. Yesterday we saw the outcome of all three choices.

 

Either we get an extra man in midfield, or we have a consistent kick and rush approach. Right now the players don't know what they are doing. They have been playing the same way for two years or more. Not easy to suddenly change it and that has been obvious in the two games under Hughes.

 

I am not sure there is an answer here. Hughes is going to persist with this tactic because the previous one wasn't working. If that's the case, he needs to have much clearer thinking. For a safety first hoof ball approach to work he needs to drill players, ensure those selected know their roles and have midfielders that work their socks off in both directions. Does Tadic really fit that mould?

 

Personally I think Hughes' tactic it is doomed to fail because if you are not controlling the game you are inviting pressure and our back four are simply not good enough to rely on to keep a clean sheet. Puel's and MoPo's tactic of controlling the game through possession may have bored people to death, but it protected the back four by limiting their exposure to ANY attacks.

 

The way forward? I have thought about it for while now and I still don't really know, but I seriously doubt the Stephens/Hoedt, Lemina/Hoj and Redmond/Tadic combination will work playing this formation and approach. Playing in a 433, our problem was simply a lack of penetration in the final third and when the rare chance came along strikers not being clinical. Austin can provide that finish if offered the chances. Get him up top with Sims offering the energy and direct running on one side and Boufal some tricks on the other in a 433. Bring Romeu back into that three with Hoj next to him and Lemina just in front of them. Drop Hoedt or Stephens (both are failing to do the basics well enough) and bring Yoshida back. Even as I type this I am wincing. We are ****ed aren't we?

 

In terms of tactics, lets return to a possession game but with a fraction more risk in terms of forward pass. With regards to wide players, they must travel with the ball much more - just go down the line and attempt to get the corner at least. The idea that a wide man collects the ball in the final third and then passes it square or backwards is madness. The side has worked to get the ball in that position, now go and show us your pace and tricks. These are subtle changes and with the current personnel might not be enough, but what I saw yesterday made my eyes bleed and I am not sure I can watch that again.

Edited 1 April, 2018 by Chez

[Lord Duckhunter]

Apparently some woman got punched by a bloke in our end after the game. Anyone see it?

 

There was a very heated argument between a bloke & women in front of me just before half time, it continued at the start of second half until they were told to shut up. The women was basically having a go because the bloke was slagging off the players. Whether this continued at the end I don’t know,, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did. Lowest of the low if he did smack her, but **** me she was annoying. Players deserved clog, not some silly moo clapping them. Emotions were running quite high, but some **** wits were actually clapping the players at the end. .

 

 

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Edited 1 April, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[RedWillie]

My first away game for ages. There was me making the effort to back the lads in a really important game and **** me they didn't even turn up. One of the most dissapointing matches I've been to into 40 + years . Personally I think we will be In The bottom three come the end of the season.

[Forester]

We need some real men in the side, we’re a team of ****ing son in laws. Whose going to shake a few up, both opposition players & their own. JWP being the poster boy of the club ****ing sums the whole place up. Although technically limited Yoshida is tough, he must start, as must OR. Long & Austin need to play, they’re about the only two we’ve got that have got an attitude that winds up opposition supporters (apart from Tadic rolling around like a big fairy). Davo, although over the hill, won’t shirk and hide like most did yesterday.

 

 

 

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Yes agree with this

[stknowle]

We are so used to having the extra man in midfield and someone to pass to, all be it often backwards, now players get on the ball and can't find an open man. The man in possession is left with limited choices, play a risky pass, hoof it safe or hold on to it that little bit too long. Yesterday we saw the outcome of all three choices.

 

Either we get an extra man in midfield, or we have a consistent kick and rush approach. Right now the players don't know what they are doing. They have been playing the same way for two years or more. Not easy to suddenly change it and that has been obvious in the two games under Hughes.

 

I am not sure there is an answer here. Hughes is going to persist with this tactic because the previous one wasn't working. If that's the case, he needs to have much clearer thinking. For a safety first hoof ball approach to work he needs to drill players, ensure those selected know their roles and have midfielders that work their socks off in both directions. Does Tadic really fit that mould?

 

Personally I think Hughes' tactic it is doomed to fail because if you are not controlling the game you are inviting pressure and our back four are simply not good enough to rely on to keep a clean sheet. Puel's and MoPo's tactic of controlling the game through possession may have bored people to death, but it protected the back four by limiting their exposure to ANY attacks.

 

The way forward? I have thought about it for while now and I still don't really know, but I seriously doubt the Stephens/Hoedt, Lemina/Hoj and Redmond/Tadic combination will work playing this formation and approach. Playing in a 433, our problem was simply a lack of penetration in the final third and when the rare chance came along strikers not being clinical. Austin can provide that finish if offered the chances. Get him up top with Sims offering the energy and direct running on one side and Boufal some tricks on the other in a 433. Bring Romeu back into that three with Hoj next to him and Lemina just in front of them. Drop Hoedt or Stephens (both are failing to do the basics well enough) and bring Yoshida back. Even as I type this I am wincing. We are ****ed aren't we?

 

In terms of tactics, lets return to a possession game but with a fraction more risk in terms of forward pass. With regards to wide players, they must travel with the ball much more - just go down the line and attempt to get the corner at least. The idea that a wide man collects the ball in the final third and then passes it square or backwards is madness. The side has worked to get the ball in that position, now go and show us your pace and tricks. These are subtle changes and with the current personnel might not be enough, but what I saw yesterday made my eyes bleed and I am not sure I can watch that again.

 

Yes

[Saint Albert]

Only just into 4 pages to this thread so far after yesterday's complete shambles shows that the general apathy at the club is spreading to the fans. Who can blame them after the shabby treatment they've received in the past few seasons. Greed at the highest level is one of the factors that has led us to the brink of dropping into the Championship. It smacks of asset stripping. I fear we are on the verge of sinking like we did in 2003 after the FA Cup Final. The club may find it difficult to shift season tickets next time. A very sad and rapid decline which was wholly avoidable. Time for a mass clear out of the leeches who are sucking the life blood from our great club. They know who they are - no need to name them.

 

I can’t speak for anyone else but after watching yesterday’s game the last thing I wanted to talk about in any detail was football. The team’s performance was depressing, and worrying.

 

Getting overrun in midfield by Wigan in the first half of the QF was not enough to kill the 4-4-2. I’m assuming that yesterday’s cluster**** will do it.

[johnnyboy]

There was a very heated argument between a bloke & women in front of me just before half time, it continued at the start of second half until they were told to shut up. The women was basically having a go because the bloke was slagging off the players. Whether this continued at the end I don’t know,, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did. Lowest of the low if he did smack her, but **** me she was annoying. Players deserved clog, not some silly moo clapping them. Emotions were running quite high, but some **** wits were actually clapping the players at the end. .

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

 

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If true, he should be charged & banned.

 

Why anyone would want to show that shower of Shiite support, or want Bertrand’s shirt after his lack of effort, is beyond me. ****ing soft arse supporters. If he tried to give me his shirt I’d have told him to stick it where the sun don’t shine.

 

 

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[stknowle]

 

 

 

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What kind of a w@nker would do that. He must be ****ing hard as well hitting a woman "with all his might" and she's tweeting about it hours later.

[Batman]

What kind of a w@nker would do that. He must be ****ing hard as well hitting a woman "with all his might" and she's tweeting about it hours later.

 

Hitting anyone regardless man or woman is disgusting

Also, why was she clapping the side?

[shurlock]

If true, he should be charged & banned.

 

Why anyone would want to show that shower of Shiite support, or want Bertrand’s shirt after his lack of effort, is beyond me. ****ing soft arse supporters. If he tried to give me his shirt I’d have told him to stick it where the sun don’t shine.

 

 

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Good lad. Just glad there wasn’t a fat, bald, bearded bloke in my vicinity as I headed for the exits after 70mins.

[stknowle]

Hitting anyone regardless man or woman is disgusting

Also, why was she clapping the side?

 

1. Agreed.

2. Don't know.

[Katalinic]

There was a very heated argument between a bloke & women in front of me just before half time, it continued at the start of second half until they were told to shut up. The women was basically having a go because the bloke was slagging off the players. Whether this continued at the end I don’t know,, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it did. Lowest of the low if he did smack her, but **** me she was annoying. Players deserved clog, not some silly moo clapping them. Emotions were running quite high, but some **** wits were actually clapping the players at the end. .

 

 

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Yeah I saw that too. Don't think it was the same people involved in the incident being described on twitter.

[Saints foreva]

Amazed to read some fans actually applauded the team at the final whistle.

[Batman]

Did anyone have a sign asking for the players shirts?

That is beyond cringe

[striker]

Nonsense. Him Long and the keeper were the only 3 to come out with any credit at all. He was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of effort and application

 

 

 

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Agree with this 100%. Outside of Long and Austin, the only two that were testing mighty WHU, the team was crap.

[shurlock]

Amazed to read some fans actually applauded the team at the final whistle.

 

It was a tepid atmosphere generally. Very little anger or emotion beyond the odd groan, sarcastic chant and booing at HT (though didn't see the reaction at FT). Resignation is the order of the day -on and off the pitch.

[The Cat]

Did anyone have a sign asking for the players shirts?

That is beyond cringe

 

Saw a chap at Wigan with a big sign. Didn't even seem to have any kids with him.

 

Just wait. We'll have some cretin in the front row holding up their iPad with "can I have shirt" typed on it before the end of the season.

[Jack]

Was so optimistic going into the game, within 5 minutes of being there we could tell it was for no good reason. Didn’t even bother going back up for the 2nd half. Shambles.

[simo]

 

 

 

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I'll call bull**** on that , I don't think anyone would standby and watch a man hit a woman regardless of how annoying she was ! Dozens of people would have seen it are there any other reports or just this birds 1 tweet ?

[hackedoff]

Two up front is only a problem if you continuously & needlessly hand possession to the opposition and then don't have the pace or desire to cover the endless mistakes.

 

One up front would be OK if we had a goal threat from midfield,we haven't had that since Lallana left.

[johnnyboy]

I'll call bull**** on that , I don't think anyone would standby and watch a man hit a woman regardless of how annoying she was ! Dozens of people would have seen it are there any other reports or just this birds 1 tweet ?

 

Clearly not mate

Why do you think so , read her timeline , we do have our share of Neanderthal amongst our support after all

 

 

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[Norm]

On Radio 5 the summariser, Pat Nevin,called it early in the first half; all very well having two up top but you need to get the ball to them. Tadic and Redmond seem incapable on that front. He later identified that our midfield was so easily overrun and offered little or no protection. He might well have added that Cedric, Hoedt and Bertrand seem incapable of defending and the latter was 'unable to deal with the 35 year old Zabaleta. There was also the notable absence of any leader on the pitch. If we go down, many of these players will be off for discount prices so really don't worry too much.

 

 

The one word used by many of the commentators on the game, TV, Radio, MOTD and 4 newspapers today, apart from Abject, was Leaderless. I watched the stream and I thought the same thing, nobody looked like a leader/captain. Our 2 CB’s and both FB’s were shocking. As for Tadic and Redmond! How they were rated as 5 in the Mail? One of the papers I saw was more realistic with 4 each but even that is generous.

 

i see us gaining 5 points, being generous, from our remaining fixtures. Sorry but I see us one of the 3 to go down.

[SFC Forever]

I hope this is sorted quickly and the perpetrator gets banned from all football and prosecuted.

[suewhistle]

Well, at least that performance has saved me over £100. I've got a clash of commitments on the 22nd April and now Saints have made the decision easy for me. A free day in the Smoke is normally a bit of fun, but there's no way I'm spending more money on that shower.

 

I joked earlier that I'd wait and go to Wembley for the final. Hah!

[Mr Dad]

I am partially deaf and a good lip-reader. There was a brief TV (stream) shot of Mark Hughes. I am sure he said 'waste of space' about somebody. Sorry I didn't catch who he was talking about. Anyway, if he is speaking so frankly, lets hope that he will be prepared to read the riot act to players and try to sort the problem out. Right now he has non-performing players and his only option is to motivate them.