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Newcastle 3 Saints 0 - Post Match

St Chalet

By St Chalet,
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The Cat

The Cat

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This is the Lemina who some believe is on a one-way ticket to Liverpool because he's definitely a Champions League standard mega-player.

 

He's played in the Champions League final for one of the biggest clubs in the world, so in that respect he already is.

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OldNick

OldNick

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Why was he flogged to us then?
just to road test him for Liverpool. What amazed me was that he was on the edge of the area and when he missed the ball there was not one of our players near and they had the freedom of St james park to attack!!!!!!!
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Shroppie

Shroppie

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Posted (edited)

Cold light of day post after letting my anger subside.

 

MOTD said abysmal, and that's generous.

 

First the team selection. Totally negative with no intent to take the game to the opposition. I agreed with JWP starting, but should have been for Tadic, who contributed zero. Sims was our brightest player last week, so he gets dropped. Maybe Hojbjerg for Romeu was ok, but Pierre unfortunately had a poor game. I wonder if we were conned into thinking Shelvey wasn't playing. We needed Romeu's physical approach. And Lemina had a mare.

 

Then the tactics. MP clearly was terrified of losing and sent the team out, as usual, to hang on to a point. We were bullied and outplayed in intensity and urgency right from the start. Those tactics lasted 70 seconds and there was no Plan B, although to be fair the next 10 mins we're the only time we threatened until Sims shot at the end. In his interview MP said the early goal killed us off. Appalling attitude.

 

As for individual players, I thought many were way below their expected standard. For me, Cedric, Carrillo, Tadic were the worst, but plenty of others weren't much better. No passion, no commitment, no movement, looking weary.

 

The collective body language of the players said we've got no direction. If there was a plan, it was to control the game with possession but with no thought of positive intent when we had the ball. Once they scored, heads dropped, there was no encouragement, no alternative plan. Carrillo wasn't an effective target, Hojbjerg and Lemina went sideways without purpose, partly because Tadic, JWP and Redmond were never moving to create space and the possibility of forward passes. Full backs didn't get forward.

 

I get the impression that the team want MP gone. Half of them probably want out too, and don't care if we go down - probably gives them an easier exit. The few playing with any passion have frustration written all over them.

 

Desperate times.

 

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Edited by Shroppie
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5string

5string

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Cold light of day post after letting my anger subside.

 

MOTD said abysmal, and that's generous.

 

First the team selection. Totally negative with no intent to take the game to the opposition. I agreed with JWP starting, but should have been for Tadic, who contributed zero. Did.s was our brightest player last week, so he gets dropped. Maybe Hojbjerg for Romeu was ok, but Pierre unfortunately had a poor game. I wonder if we were conned into thinking Shelvey wasn't playing. We needed Romeu's physical approach. And Lemina had a mare.

 

Then the tactics. MP clearly was terrified of losing and sent the team out, as usual, to hang on to a point. We were bullied and outplayed in intensity and urgency right from the start. Those tactics lasted 70 seconds and there was no Plan B, although to be fair the next 10 mins we're the only time we threatened until Sims shot at the end. In his interview MP said the early goal killed us off. Appalling attitude.

 

As for individual players, I thought many were way below their expected standard. For me, Cedric, Carrillo, Tadic were the worst, but plenty of others weren't much better. No passion, no commitment, no movement, looking weary.

 

The collective body language of the players said we've got no direction. If there was a plan, it was to control the game with possession but with no thought of positive intent when we had the ball. Once they scored, heads dropped, there was no encouragement, no alternative plan. Carrillo wasn't an effective target, Hojbjerg and Lemina went sideways without purpose, partly because Tadic, JWP and Redmond were never moving to create space and the possibility of forward passes. Full backs didn't get forward.

 

I get the impression that the team want MP gone. Half of them probably want out too, and don't care if we go down - probably gives them an easier exit. The few playing with any passion have frustration written all over them.

 

Desperate times.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Yup, I'll go with that.

 

I'm amazed we have so many players who just don't contribute positively to a game over 90 minutes, or however long they're on: Tadic, Carrillo (has he done anything yet?), Cedric, Redmond, JWP. So many part-time efforts, or waiting of that perfect moment to shine their individual light on proceedings - ain't gonna happen. You have to work for it.

 

It's mainly down to the manager, say 85%, but they need leadership on the pitch too. It's not happening.

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Graffito

Graffito

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This was the worst. Heads have dropped before but players giving up. Unbelievable.

 

Two sides with very similar match stats. Saints probably with more quality in the side. One team came out fired up and the other like frightened rabbits. The players have a lot to answer for but it’s up to the manager to get them going and he can’t do it. If ever there was a match which demonstrated the difference a decent manager can make this was it.

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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Accurate reflection from Shroppie above, and that's from someone who has defended the team/MP a little in recent weeks.

 

MOTD comments from Lampard and Jenas were pretty much spot on, the trouble is we could have said the same thing right at the start of the season.

 

The game reminded me a little of our home match vs Watford. They were 'at it', physically and mentally on the front foot. While we were static, safe, and generally sh1t, with no idea of how to deal with them or how to change things.

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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Are players like androids? Do they have no sentience and autonomy?

 

They spend every day with this manager telling them what to think, how to play etc. Do you think they get to match day and not only do their own thing, but still maintain good cohesion and keep a good tactical shape?

 

This idea that the players should somehow be able to shake off the shackles of any poor management and turn on the style for 90 minutes is incredibly optimistic and ultimately, wide of the mark.

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stknowle

stknowle

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Accurate reflection from Shroppie above, and that's from someone who has defended the team/MP a little in recent weeks.

 

MOTD comments from Lampard and Jenas were pretty much spot on, the trouble is we could have said the same thing right at the start of the season.

 

The game reminded me a little of our home match vs Watford. They were 'at it', physically and mentally on the front foot. While we were static, safe, and generally sh1t, with no idea of how to deal with them or how to change things.

 

Agree, which means he's learnt the square root of **** all in 3 quarters of a season. Jesus Christ why is he still here?

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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Agree, which means he's learnt the square root of **** all in 3 quarters of a season. Jesus Christ why is he still here?

 

I know, awful situation.

 

The only argument I can think for keeping him is that the board want to appoint someone in the summer who isn't available now, and by appointing someone to help avoid relegation we will end up missing out on said target. So keep fingers crossed Pellegrino finds a way of keeping us up and then be in a stronger position in the summer.

 

I think that's too much of a risk to be honest, and I don't understand why we can't get someone on a short term contract with a big survival bonus. I can only think that the board are too tight to do, or are blind to the precarious position we're in (i.e. still think we'll be absolutely fine).

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

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They spend every day with this manager telling them what to think, how to play etc. Do you think they get to match day and not only do their own thing, but still maintain good cohesion and keep a good tactical shape?

 

This idea that the players should somehow be able to shake off the shackles of any poor management and turn on the style for 90 minutes is incredibly optimistic and ultimately, wide of the mark.

 

This is top level sport we are talking about.its not a kick about or park football..if the players just decide what they are going to do and ignore the manager, they will get annihilated every game..

 

There has to be a game plan, players have to know who is picking up who, how they set up AS A TEAM when we are defending and how they set up AS A TEAM when attacking...they also need to understand set piece roles and what to do in transition between attack and defence...it's pretty much impossible for an individual to go out and play their own game ignoring the team instructions and it's pretty unlikely that as a group they will be competent enough to cover all possibilities and agree tactics between themselves.

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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This is top level sport we are talking about.its not a kick about or park football..if the players just decide what they are going to do and ignore the manager, they will get annihilated every game..

 

There has to be a game plan, players have to know who is picking up who, how they set up AS A TEAM when we are defending and how they set up AS A TEAM when attacking...they also need to understand set piece roles and what to do in transition between attack and defence...it's pretty much impossible for an individual to go out and play their own game ignoring the team instructions and it's pretty unlikely that as a group they will be competent enough to cover all possibilities and agree tactics between themselves.

 

Your starting tone sounds like you are going to argue against my post, but you've pretty much agreed with what I've said...

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The Cat

The Cat

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Why was he flogged to us then?

 

How should I know? Maybe he wanted to come to the Premier League and was advised to use us as a stepping stone to play for a bigger club like others have done.

 

He's clearly a quality player, I struggle to work out how anyone could think otherwise.

 

Silly me for assuming that someone who's played in the Champions League is good enough to play in the Champions League.

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supersonic

supersonic

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I cannot ever recall a manager criticise his players for lack of spirit before. What the F do you think your job is C..T For God's sake GO and GO NOW. Surely someone is available to get us over the line this season and we can sort it out next season.

 

The same manager that simply stood there with his arms folder for 20 minutes when it was 3-0 and never once even attempted to motivate or change things.

 

Attitude reflects leadership.

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qwertyell

qwertyell

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A diabolical result, sweetened by the fact that Palace and West Ham continue to be equally as pathetic. West Brom you'd have to assume are gone now. If Stoke lose we'll still be out of the drop zone by some miracle!
Palace aren't pathetic. They've lost their last two against Man United and Chelsea, but played well enough to deserve much better than to end up empty handed.

 

They'll pick up more points than we will between now and the end of the season.

 

I think it'll ultimately be between us, Stoke and Huddersfield for the final two relegation places.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

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Saint Pete

Saint Pete

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Palace aren't pathetic. They've lost their last two against Man United and Chelsea, but played well enough to deserve much better than to end up empty handed.

 

They'll pick up more points than we will between now and the end of the season.

 

I think it'll ultimately be between us, Stoke and Huddersfield for the final two relegation places.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

Yep, agree about Palace. Tough last couple of fixtures for them but they have competed well in both games which probably bodes well for them over the run in. Objectively they look more likely to get the points they need to survive than us currently, even though we are still marginally ahead in the table.

 

Looking at this weekends fixtures overall, it was pretty likely that a number of the other teams at the bottom wouldn’t win, which makes it all the more annoying that we haven’t taken advantage of that. The boot will be on the other foot in the weeks when we face the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, so things look pretty grim for us after getting just 1 point from the last 2 more favourable games.

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Saint Pete

Saint Pete

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They were a shambles first half, lucky not to be 3 or 4 down at half time.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Maybe so, but they stuck in there, improved in the second half and could have grabbed a point but for an iffy refereeing decision.

 

Also, Hodgson accepted the first half performance wasn’t good enough, so you suspect they will address that in games to come. Whereas Pellegrino has proved incapable of addressing an envelope with his “groundhog day” style of management.

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shurlock

shurlock

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I cannot recall a more scathing criticism of a club ever in my 60+ years of following the game. A truly disgraceful situation that has to be met head on NOW by Kruger et al .

 

We believe we can climb back up the table with the group we have, we wouldn’t swap this team with any of our equals, we love the potential of the group

 

HTH

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mrfahaji

mrfahaji

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Another thing to note for their second goal is that we weren't initially overloaded. When the ball broke following Lemina's slip, there were 5 Newcastle players beyond their penalty box breaking forward, and 6 Southampton players coming back. I watched it back a number of times and I think Bertrand is the only player that I couldn't find fault with (he reacts quickly, busts a gut to get back, and only leaves Kenedy unmarked because he has to close down Gayle). All the others either have a pitiful amount of pace/fitness, couldn't be bothered, failed to track a run, or lacked any sort of commitment to win the ball.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

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Another thing to note for their second goal is that we weren't initially overloaded. When the ball broke following Lemina's slip, there were 5 Newcastle players beyond their penalty box breaking forward, and 6 Southampton players coming back. I watched it back a number of times and I think Bertrand is the only player that I couldn't find fault with (he reacts quickly, busts a gut to get back, and only leaves Kenedy unmarked because he has to close down Gayle). All the others either have a pitiful amount of pace/fitness, couldn't be bothered, failed to track a run, or lacked any sort of commitment to win the ball.
I agree, but being fair, having made the initial slip, Lemina almost got back.

 

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captainchris

captainchris

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I agree, but being fair, having made the initial slip, Lemina almost got back.

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Precisely which only goes to show even more that the rest of them are either unfit or can’t be arssed....

They are most definitely not fit and probably can’t be bothered either!

Who would for this excuse for a Manager in all honesty...

Unbelievable situation ...

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