VvD on life after Saints...

[The Saint]

It seems Virgil had to 'up his game' after leaving us, according to this article.

 

I'm not sure if he's having a dig at us or just saying what he thinks the scousers want to hear.

 

But if it's true, that the training at Liverpool involved a lot more work, could that be one of the reasons for our performances this season?

 

Looking back, so many games often seem to lack a certain bite with so many passes going sideways or backwards and the apparent lack of players willing to take on defenders.

 

I don't want this to turn into a 'Virgil bashing thread' just interested in peoples thoughts on something that might be wrong at the club.

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43222965

[Saint86]

It seems Virgil had to 'up his game' after leaving us, according to this article.

 

I'm not sure if he's having a dig at us or just saying what he thinks the scousers want to hear.

 

But if it's true, that the training at Liverpool involved a lot more work, could that be one of the reasons for our performances this season?

 

Looking back, so many games often seem to lack a certain bite with so many passes going sideways or backwards and the apparent lack of players willing to take on defenders.

 

I don't want this to turn into a 'Virgil bashing thread' just interested in peoples thoughts on something that might be wrong at the club.

 

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43222965

 

His manager is some hybrid mix between a rabid dog and a complete crack head.

 

Not surprised training is more work there...

[aintforever]

Training is bound to be more hard work when you give a sh!t about how well you play. c*nt.

[darren2]

Think at times he looked like he was "Going through the motions" while he was waiting to leave, so no surprise there.

[mrfahaji]

Training is bound to be more hard work when you give a sh!t about how well you play. c*nt.

 

This. Although it also wouldn't surprise me if they worked harder in training than we do.

[East Kent Saint]

It's one thing thinking you are world class but another thing to demonstrate it at a new club that is playing at the top end of the league . They didn't pay £75M for you to jog back to your position or leave large gaps in the defense while the opposition score . Therefore you might have to try a bit harder than you were at the start of the season.

[Deano6]

Well given how sh*t we are it's hardly surprising.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Training is bound to be more hard work when you give a sh!t about how well you play. c*nt.

 

This.

 

Though I’m sure people will use this absolute unprofessional **** to have a dig at the club again.

 

 

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[Tommy Mulgrew]

The BBC article has these stats:

 

Southampton 2016-17 Liverpool 2017-18

Minutes Played 1854 360

Distance per 90 mins (km) 8.3 9.2

Sprints per 90 mins 30.2 34

 

I copied and pasted that and cannot space it our properly but it pretty clearly shows that, albeit after only a few games for 'pool, he has covered vastly more ground than in 2016 and 2017 for us. The difference is surely highly significant. Replicate that difference throughout the team and no wonder we are struggling.

[Chez]

the fact he was deemed not fit enough by Klopp to play for them straight away shows how little effort he put in during the last few months.

[captainchris]

Certainly all the evidence points to Vvd telling it how it is. We are blatantly unfit....

Still, nothing will change so might as well be apathetic about the whole coaching nightmare that is taking place....

[Fan The Flames]

We do seem to be not as fit, but when you are a **** manager its difficult to get the lads working harder and in some cases they may be allowed to slack off in a desperate ill-fated attempt by the manager to boost his authority.

[Maggie May]

The BBC article has these stats:

 

Southampton 2016-17 Liverpool 2017-18

Minutes Played 1854 360

Distance per 90 mins (km) 8.3 9.2

Sprints per 90 mins 30.2 34

 

I copied and pasted that and cannot space it our properly but it pretty clearly shows that, albeit after only a few games for 'pool, he has covered vastly more ground than in 2016 and 2017 for us. The difference is surely highly significant. Replicate that difference throughout the team and no wonder we are struggling.

 

Our players are not good enough to play in a system like Liverpool's. That's why the stats are different, not because we are struggling.

 

We'd be in a much worse position if we tried.

[Saint Garrett]

Said all season our players don’t look fit enough. Late goals and how tired the players look....seems to me the players aren’t where they should be physically

 

 

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[dronskisaint]

Training is bound to be more hard work when you give a sh!t about how well you play. c*nt.

 

This completely, his attitude and application stunk in the run up to January.

[Jimmy_D]

If the Judas **** had been putting in any less effort for us he'd have been horizontal.

 

It's no wonder he's had to up his game after that.

[Saint Without a Halo]

The BBC article has these stats:

 

Southampton 2016-17 Liverpool 2017-18

Minutes Played 1854 360

Distance per 90 mins (km) 8.3 9.2

Sprints per 90 mins 30.2 34

 

I copied and pasted that and cannot space it our properly but it pretty clearly shows that, albeit after only a few games for 'pool, he has covered vastly more ground than in 2016 and 2017 for us. The difference is surely highly significant. Replicate that difference throughout the team and no wonder we are struggling.

 

 

As liverpool are upfield a lot more than us giving their attacking style it is hardly surprising the defence has to cover more ground! Given we set up for 0-0 for the majority of time in most games I am rather surprised the difference isnt more

[IOWSaintDaz]

Mourinho said the same about Luke Shaw's fitness when he joined Man Utd

[stu0x]

Mourinho said the same about Luke Shaw's fitness when he joined Man Utd

Shaw had been at United for two years by the time Mourinho arrived. I'm not sure his time at Saints is too relevant by that point. I remember the talk about Shaw shortly after he moved was that he lacked maturity and self-discipline. Whilst he was at Saints he was very closely watched over and had The Sheriff to contend with. It was feared that moving to United, where he would be a much smaller fish and would not get the same direct attention, he would lack the personal drive and commitment to keep himself in peak physical condition. Which sort of proved to be true (although it's difficult to know to what extent his injuries impacted that).

 

I think there is an important point here though. There are threads on here comparing our squad to Stoke's/Watford's/Burnley's/etc. Whilst we arguably stack up against most on a purely skill basis, a lack of physical fitness can be a huge equaliser.

 

Poch kept the players ultra fit. Then we had Kluitenberg - Koeman's fitness coach - who also kept very high standards (when he joined Everton he remarked how unfit their players were in comparison).

 

When Puel came in the dynamic changed completely. From day one he banged on about how important it would be to rotate the squad, the fixture list was untenable, there's no way the players would cope with PL, EL and Cups etc. This was so early on that there's no way it was based on empirical evidence - more a reflection of the man's ideology and experience (the French league has traditionally been significantly less physical than the PL). The style and tempo of play slowed considerably, and Puel openly stated it was because the players would need to conserve their energy *during competitive matches*. That being his approach to an actual game, it stands to reason that he wouldn't be pushing them anywhere near as hard in training either. The horrendous 'tail' at the end of last season bore all the hallmarks of a tired team. Not because they'd been run into the ground, but because their peak levels had declined over the course of the season.

 

Pellegrino comes in, and whether he wants to or not it simply isn't in his locker to up the fitness levels. It always concerns me when stories come out about how the players are enjoying a manager's approach. It usually means that they're finding training easy. So the decline continues, match tempo continues to decrease, and we look unable to manage 90 minutes with any sense of authority. We have the worst record in the league for holding onto a lead, and concede possession and territory with monotonous regularity towards the end of the match. Pellegrino says he hasn't 'asked' the players to do it. Maybe not, but (as with everything on the pitch) he has ultimate responsibility, whether it's down to physical, mental, or tactical constraints - or all 3.

 

Assuming we somehow limp over the line this season, and the Charisma Vacuum does get the bullet early, the club will have a race against time to sort the situation before next August, otherwise we will be straight into freefall. 'Fortunately' the majority of our players won't be wearing themselves out in Russia this summer.

 

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[The Saint]

^^ This ^^

[Faz]

Shaw had been at United for two years by the time Mourinho arrived. I'm not sure his time at Saints is too relevant by that point. I remember the talk about Shaw shortly after he moved was that he lacked maturity and self-discipline. Whilst he was at Saints he was very closely watched over and had The Sheriff to contend with. It was feared that moving to United, where he would be a much smaller fish and would not get the same direct attention, he would lack the personal drive and commitment to keep himself in peak physical condition. Which sort of proved to be true (although it's difficult to know to what extent his injuries impacted that).

 

I think there is an important point here though. There are threads on here comparing our squad to Stoke's/Watford's/Burnley's/etc. Whilst we arguably stack up against most on a purely skill basis, a lack of physical fitness can be a huge equaliser.

 

Poch kept the players ultra fit. Then we had Kluitenberg - Koeman's fitness coach - who also kept very high standards (when he joined Everton he remarked how unfit their players were in comparison).

 

When Puel came in the dynamic changed completely. From day one he banged on about how important it would be to rotate the squad, the fixture list was untenable, there's no way the players would cope with PL, EL and Cups etc. This was so early on that there's no way it was based on empirical evidence - more a reflection of the man's ideology and experience (the French league has traditionally been significantly less physical than the PL). The style and tempo of play slowed considerably, and Puel openly stated it was because the players would need to conserve their energy *during competitive matches*. That being his approach to an actual game, it stands to reason that he wouldn't be pushing them anywhere near as hard in training either. The horrendous 'tail' at the end of last season bore all the hallmarks of a tired team. Not because they'd been run into the ground, but because their peak levels had declined over the course of the season.

 

Pellegrino comes in, and whether he wants to or not it simply isn't in his locker to up the fitness levels. It always concerns me when stories come out about how the players are enjoying a manager's approach. It usually means that they're finding training easy. So the decline continues, match tempo continues to decrease, and we look unable to manage 90 minutes with any sense of authority. We have the worst record in the league for holding onto a lead, and concede possession and territory with monotonous regularity towards the end of the match. Pellegrino says he hasn't 'asked' the players to do it. Maybe not, but (as with everything on the pitch) he has ultimate responsibility, whether it's down to physical, mental, or tactical constraints - or all 3.

 

Assuming we somehow limp over the line this season, and the Charisma Vacuum does get the bullet early, the club will have a race against time to sort the situation before next August, otherwise we will be straight into freefall. 'Fortunately' the majority of our players won't be wearing themselves out in Russia this summer.

 

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You have to assume that the Football Director has access to all the stats and knows whether our fitness levels are down or not, and would be addressing it if that is the case. It may be one of the reasons they let Puel go, it may not.

[tajjuk]

It's purely style of play nothing more, our players are fit, we just don't do a very high press and Liverpool will play a higher line than us because of that, meaning VVD has to cover more ground as central defender.

 

It is also important to note that most Liverpool players are dead on their feet by about the 60th minute, they run out of ideas and legs if their initial rush doesn't work, which is exactly what happened to them against Spurs.

 

Plus VVD was on his holidays since he came back so surprise he is putting in more effort at his new club.

 

Our failure at the end of games is not fitness, it's inviting pressure by sitting deeper and having not put away chances to win a game. As the BBC article said today we have created more chances than anyone outside the top 6, we just don't score goals enough, that means we are trying to hold onto to narrow leads, meaning we get nervy and sit deeper. If we were 2-3 up like we should have been in many games and killed them off, I doubt the team would have defended so deep.

[captainchris]

It's purely style of play nothing more, our players are fit, we just don't do a very high press and Liverpool will play a higher line than us because of that, meaning VVD has to cover more ground as central defender.

 

It is also important to note that most Liverpool players are dead on their feet by about the 60th minute, they run out of ideas and legs if their initial rush doesn't work, which is exactly what happened to them against Spurs.

 

Plus VVD was on his holidays since he came back so surprise he is putting in more effort at his new club.

 

Our failure at the end of games is not fitness, it's inviting pressure by sitting deeper and having not put away chances to win a game. As the BBC article said today we have created more chances than anyone outside the top 6, we just don't score goals enough, that means we are trying to hold onto to narrow leads, meaning we get nervy and sit deeper. If we were 2-3 up like we should have been in many games and killed them off, I doubt the team would have defended so deep.

 

Sorry we are mostly defensive from 10 minutes in. Tactics from the start of games do not allow players to be able to move to positions on the pitch where space exists, this is very easy to see if you watch the game very closely and don’t always just follow the ball. The players are actually instructed to run into the contested and marked centre of the pitch when we are in possession. Yes this will tire them out as as soon as the opposition have possession they are instructed to run back into space - yes it’s as stupid as it sounds and must wear the players out just acting under tiresome instructions alone but we are definitely not fit iether....

Christ we don’t even close down or press and we flag in the second half!

[Saint-Fred]

Our players are not good enough to play in a system like Liverpool's. That's why the stats are different, not because we are struggling.

 

We'd be in a much worse position if we tried.

 

People probably said the same when Adkins was in charge yet Poch got the same players, playing further forward, playing a press and winning more games.

Our current lot may get battered by the top 6 playing that way but there is no way that we would have only won 5 games this season playing a higher press,higher tempo game against the dross we have played from the bottom 10.

[CougarSaint]

Can't help but notice that in previous seasons team and individuals were in most miles run stats and individuals were in fastest sprints. This season we've only appeared in those stats following reasonable results. Looks like a correlation to me...