76 Cup Final Trouble?

[Noodles34]

Just wondering for those who were there, back in the 70's, notably a violent time for football and in particular i think Man Utd was a nasty bunch I believe, was there any trouble before the game, inside and in particular, obviously after we had beaten them, what was it like outside?

 

Would love to ask the same question on the 66 WC Final. Was there many Germans there? Did they have an 'away' end? Too early for crowd trouble?

 

When did football hooliganism officially start?

[Give it to Ron]

Was kicking off before and after - certainly all over the coach car parks after the game. Couple from my coach got punched before.

United were well known back then for having a nasty lot.

The worst I saw at the Dell were Rangers, also Birmingham, then Leeds and obviously Millwall.

Luckily that's all finished now...well nearly all.

[Nordic Saint]

The first thing is we were heavily outnumbered. Un those days, the two teams were alloacated the upper tiers qt both ends while the lower tiers were for neutrals. Traditionally those neutral allocations usually found their way into the hands of fans of the the team in the upper tier at the same end. In 76 they didn't. There were avout 70,000 Man United fans at Wembley that day. I remember Saints fans at the front of the ipper tier battering United fans in the lower tier with wooden posts, which were allowed in to hold banners made out of bed sheets. Around Wembley there were a few skirmishes but nothing serious.

 

There was hooliganism in the mid-60s. I remember a few hundred of us taking the central section of Fratton End in 1966 and Pompey fans who'd been shoved up into the corner of their end, throwing bottles at us.

[diggers]

I was 13, went with my older brother and his family. As his kid was young we got to the front of the que and stood on the front the very front of the upper tier. One of my life's regrets is that in all honesty I didn't see the lap of honor as I was ducking down under the wall as united fans tied there scarf' s together to scan the wall from the lower tier. In those days you coukd drink beer inside the ground and united fans below were lobbing full beer cans up at us. When we got outside afterwards they were swarming the coaches looking for saints fans to attack.

As an aside, thr following season when they visited the sell in a freak cup re draw, they were the most aggressive I've seen in 40 years of going to football. (Maybe cos I was still young but that's how I remember it)

[Nordic Saint]

I was 13, went with my older brother and his family. As his kid was young we got to the front of the que and stood on the front the very front of the upper tier. One of my life's regrets is that in all honesty I didn't see the lap of honor as I was ducking down under the wall as united fans tied there scarf' s together to scan the wall from the lower tier. In those days you coukd drink beer inside the ground and united fans below were lobbing full beer cans up at us. When we got outside afterwards they were swarming the coaches looking for saints fans to attack.

As an aside, thr following season when they visited the sell in a freak cup re draw, they were the most aggressive I've seen in 40 years of going to football. (Maybe cos I was still young but that's how I remember it)

 

I went by train so I didn't see any of that stuff in the coach park. But, yes, in the 70s, United and Chelsea had massive hooligan armies, which attracted followers from all over the country, including the Millwall Reds, who followed both Millwall and United, wherever there was the most trouble.

[Charlie Wayman]

Was kicking off before and after - certainly all over the coach car parks after the game. Couple from my coach got punched before.

United were well known back then for having a nasty lot.

The worst I saw at the Dell were Rangers, also Birmingham, then Leeds and obviously Millwall.

Luckily that's all finished now...well nearly all.

 

Bring back the old days, eh?

[Charlie Wayman]

The first thing is we were heavily outnumbered. Un those days, the two teams were alloacated the upper tiers qt both ends while the lower tiers were for neutrals. Traditionally those neutral allocations usually found their way into the hands of fans of the the team in the upper tier at the same end. In 76 they didn't. There were avout 70,000 Man United fans at Wembley that day. I remember Saints fans at the front of the ipper tier battering United fans in the lower tier with wooden posts, which were allowed in to hold banners made out of bed sheets. Around Wembley there were a few skirmishes but nothing serious.

 

There was hooliganism in the mid-60s. I remember a few hundred of us taking the central section of Fratton End in 1966 and Pompey fans who'd been shoved up into the corner of their end, throwing bottles at us.

 

Are you sure, I don't remember the 60's being all that bad at all and I saw nothing up at Wembley on the day that was particularly unpleasant.

[captainchris]

Was surrounded by Utd ‘fans’ and had ticket, scarf, rosette and wallet taken off me at knife point.

Pretty evil people....

[Winnersaint]

Got there quite early. there were certainly a lot of Man U there and as Nordic pointed out were outnumbered around 3 to 1. Not many saints coaches when we arrived. One Utd t w a t tried to get in the coach via the emergency exit. Got his head inside only to find it joined to the toe end of a ten hole DM boot. Parked up and pretty soon the coach park was full of Saints. don't recall Mancs marauding around pre match. Gates were not open when we left the coach so had to wait a while to get in on the steps, again I don't recall much in the way of Man U fans kicking off. Inside Wembley it was like an away game as you would expect given there were 70 odd thousand of them inside. I was in the upper tier to the right of the tunnel, pretty much on an angle with Bobby's shot which you could see Stepney was never getting to. A surreal few seconds. Cue the euphoria followed by YGGYFHKI from United fans, but nothing really serious went on that I could see. By the time we were out there wasn't much going on outside just a hell of a lot of happy people. Now Bradford in the sixth round, that was an experience!

[Give it to Ron]

Bring back the old days, eh?

 

Certainly not hence the last line...the game is a different animal now and thankfully its now fairly safe to attend games.

The one thing I am grateful for is never being at Bradford, Leppings Lane and Heysel there but for the grace of god....especially remember at Anderlecht and how the terraces were crumbling under my feet in 77.

[Dellman]

Before the kick off Man U fans, in groups, were outside racing round and trying to terrorise Saints fans. One group of teenagers pulled my sister's Saints scarf off her neck and raced off with it, she chased them and got hold of the scarf (we've still got it) and they ran off. It was unpleasant at the time and funny ever after

[The Saint]

Yep, really didn't see any problems that day. Lots bullish chants outside but no gang warfare.

 

Now, Rangers at the Dell....

 

Jeez....!!!

[Saint86]

Bring back the old days, eh?

 

Nonsense Charlies, its called "Safe" standing these days. In no way, shape, or form, did terracing promote football hooliganism.

Edited 26 February, 2018 by Saint86

[Pilchards]

Yes it was shocking back in ‘76

My mate was in the queue getting a burger when a UTD fan pushed in the line.

Also I had my pen stolen after lending it to a fan for autographs.

[70's Mike]

plenty of trouble in 76, in pubs before game United fans trying to steal tickets and pitch battle on the steps of wembley, different design to these days, with saints fans using flag poles to keep united out. In those days you could take huge banners on big poles into cup final.

Inside as others said plenty of things thrown as united has 70% of 100k present and were all over the so called neutral zones.

After game a few isolated incidents but most Saints just wanted to get back home to celebrate

[sadoldgit]

My football club secretary got two tickets every year and gave one to me as he knew I supported Saints (we were based in London). Sadly I was sat in the United end and was wearing a yellow jumper as I hadn't bothered to check what kit we would be wearing. Despite standing out like a sore thumb I got away with it, probably because of my London accent. When we were walking down the steps at the end the Utd supporters were lobbing cans which landed amongst their own supporters. Tw*ts. They were not happy bunnies. They thought that they only had to turn up and collect the cup.

[spyinthesky]

When me and my mates first started going to away games in the 60's, there was the occasional one on one problem on the terraces as fans were mixed (I remember some skirmishes at Cardiff during the 5-3 win there on Boxing Day 1965) and at Plymouth towards the end of the 66 season but nothing 'organised'

We actually used to go to away games wearing our 'Sunday Best'

In fact at the '63 FA Cup semi final v Man Utd, there were quite a few Saints fans allocated tickets in the Man Utd end (opposite the Holte) and it all went without incident.

We even went down to Pompey a few times (1-1 draw and a 5-2 win, sticks in my mind) without too many problems although you could tell there could be trouble brewing.

I think most fans were not expecting the organised violence that came with our first season in Division 1 in 1966.

First game v Man City was fine then Chelsea came down and walloped us 3-0 on the pitch and caused all sorts of problems off the pitch.

As they say 'it all kicked off from then'

I also was fortunate to go to Wembley for the World Cup final and also saw one other England game at Wembley, plus the France v Uruguay tie at the old White City Stadium.

No problems at all.

[Suomi Saint]

Even though we were greatly outnumbered, I don’t remember any trouble. More in Div 1 matches at the Dell. The United fans stayed for the lap of honour, which is something that doesn’t happen now. There were warnings about getting your ticket stolen so I kept mine in my shoe. The United fans were glum, but I never saw anyone have a go.

[spyinthesky]

When me and my mates first started going to away games in the 60's, there was the occasional one on one problem on the terraces as fans were mixed (I remember some skirmishes at Cardiff during the 5-3 win there on Boxing Day 1965) and at Plymouth towards the end of the 66 season but nothing 'organised'

We actually used to go to away games wearing our 'Sunday Best'

In fact at the '63 FA Cup semi final v Man Utd, there were quite a few Saints fans allocated tickets in the Man Utd end (opposite the Holte) and it all went without incident.

We even went down to Pompey a few times (1-1 draw and a 5-2 win, sticks in my mind) without too many problems although you could tell there could be trouble brewing.

I think most fans were not expecting the organised violence that came with our first season in Division 1 in 1966.

First game v Man City was fine then Chelsea came down and walloped us 3-0 on the pitch and caused all sorts of problems off the pitch.

As they say 'it all kicked off from then'

I also was fortunate to go to Wembley for the World Cup final and also saw one other England game at Wembley, plus the France v Uruguay tie at the old White City Stadium.

No problems at all.

 

Forgot to say that I went to all the Saints games during the 76 Cup Winning year.

Not many Saints fans at Villa Park for the 3rd Rd replay but there were 5 of us in the stand and needed some police protection when a large group of Villa fans made there way into the stand from the terracing. All dealt with OK

West Brom away was generally Ok as we took over 10,000 there.

Bradford City away in the 6th Rd was quite nasty and there were skirmishes before and after the game.

We were sat close to Richard Dunn(who was the British Heavyweight Champion at the time) who took particular exception to Mick Channon.

We kept our celebrations to post match on that day.

Wembley was generally OK but there were a couple of Saints fans taking a pasting from a large group of Man Utd 'fans' after the game.

Felt sorry for the two lads as they didnt look like troublemakers but think the police got to them before too much damage was incurred,

[East Kent Saint]

In my Ipswich days as an apprentice we used to go to Portman Rd in the early seventies . There was some minor stuff going on but you could easily avoid it . However when Man U came to town the shops shut early due to what became to be known as 'steaming' , no one went to the town and were cautious when we went to the match . Fortunately we managed to avoid being done over , Man U were the one's to be waru of.

[macca155]

Are you sure, I don't remember the 60's being all that bad at all and I saw nothing up at Wembley on the day that was particularly unpleasant.

I didn't see anything in the 60s and even in the 70s i stood on the Archers road with Pompey fans.

 

None of the nonsense got going until the TV carried shock stories and it built from there.

 

Rules were clear. If you looked for it you inevitably found it but it was easily avoided.

 

I remember Utd fans swarming up Hill Lane. Jumping on cars and having punch ups. We just walked back to my Grandmas ignoring the chaos around us.

 

A couple of times it got hectic at away games. WBA was by far the worse.

 

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[macca155]

Yes it was shocking back in ‘76

My mate was in the queue getting a burger when a UTD fan pushed in the line.

Also I had my pen stolen after lending it to a fan for autographs.

Disgraceful i hope you reported that to old bill.

 

Standards must be maintained

 

 

 

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[Wade Garrett]

Ive heard plenty of stories about our hooligan element as well.

 

Every moaning about Man Utd, but we weren't angels.

 

I do remember someone sticking their tongue out at me in the eighties. I cried when I got home.

[alehouseboys]

United had some right b'stards following them around in the 70s but it was their sheer weight of numbers that used to overwhelm towns they were playing in back then. They swamped Wembley in 76 and when they then drew us in the FA Cup the following season it was always going to be ugly after humiliating them several months earlier. There were thousands in Southampton that weekend with loads locked out of the Dell. As well as the mancs, there were massive mobs of Cockney and Bristol Reds to deal with and they were just intent on maurauding where ever they went. The next time we played them in 1978-79 once we were promoted, a bit of revenge was in the air for some, particularly The Warrens but the OB were also well prepared this time and kept everything mostly wrapped up.

[Toomer]

Won't mention any names but it kicked off big time in one of the pubs around Wembly and a someone ran at the rags with a piece of wood on his own and the rags ran.

[VectisSaint]

Are you sure, I don't remember the 60's being all that bad at all and I saw nothing up at Wembley on the day that was particularly unpleasant.

 

With you on this. Perhaps I missed it, but have no recollection of any issues at Wembley, all very good humoured mixing with Utd supporters. There were a few scuffles at Stamford Bridge for the SF, but these were just Saints supporters scuffling with other Saints supporters. Had a few incidents at Highbury in the late 60s with bottles thrown at coach windows, but didn't really experience much Bovver until 77/78, Chelsea main culprits, and then the infamous visit to Luton which was very scary getting out of that s h I t hole.

[Hayling Saint]

Even though we were greatly outnumbered, I don’t remember any trouble. More in Div 1 matches at the Dell. The United fans stayed for the lap of honour, which is something that doesn’t happen now. There were warnings about getting your ticket stolen so I kept mine in my shoe. The United fans were glum, but I never saw anyone have a go.

 

Me too, I was there, no problems at all. Went back to Uxbridge to pick the car went in a pub full of Mancs and they bought the beers and

congratulated us on the win

[Lets B Avenue]

There were loads of ticketless Mancs hanging around at the bottom of the stairs leading to our turnstiles causing trouble. The fact that most of us were wearing yellow was a slight giveaway.

 

Our coach got us there well before the gates opened at 1pm and there was a bit of a ruck getting through them. From the top of the stairs you saw several "incidents" a before we got inside.

[suewhistle]

I was there in 76 and didn't see anything untoward, but as as an innocent, smiley fresh faced student at Soton u, trouble didn't come looking for me..:-) When we got back to our coaches the drivers did tell us that they'd had to chase off united fans by threatening them with their chemical fire extinguishers.

 

My poor performance in my final exams that year I sometimes blame on the loss of braincells in the partying aftermath of our win!

[Winnersaint]

I remember WBA was by far the worse.

 

Wasn't great. Remember the 5th Round game in 1979. A long walk back to Smethwick Rolfe St in those days (no Hawthorns Station then) along Brasshouse Lane, all factories, nowhere to leg it to. Was in Worcester doing my degree at the time and had gone with a mate who was a Smethwick/Handsworth local (Villa fan). Got chased by Baggies all down that road and then ran into Saints as they burst out of the station in numbers and then had to leg it from them as my mate could never pass for anything other than a local. Lol!

[ItchenRob]

I was 15 then and surrounded by a group of ManUre fans who beat me over the head with their flagsticks and said they wouldn't stop until I sang "I'd rather be a Devil than a Saint". I refused and ran away. I was a fairly good runner in those days so they never caught me !

[diggers]

That game was one of my first on a football special, think we took two special strains to Brum that day. Remember a Brummy plod saying, "keep tight to the wall if you don't want a brick on ya head" as they escorted a train full of Saints to the ground.

A year or two later, I went on a Foley coach for a night game, there was honestly no more than 150 Saints there and about the same WBA in our end, the escort back to the coach was like a game of kiss chase, tons of huge black brummies running into the escort, swinging a few punches and darting away from the old bill. Happy days!

[OldNick]

At the cup final I saw for the first time a mugging in clear daylight. A small group of Saints fans in their late 30-40's were surrounded by a group of Man Utd fans in the car park in full view of the stadium.One saints fan was jumped on and they were like a pack of hyenas as they dragged him to the ground (he was a big bloke) when n the ground they beat him up and robbed him , they took his wallet and ticket.

Before the game in the media it as reported that there was going to be a massive police presence and even the SAS in plainclothes lol.

Sadly not one of them turned up to help this Saints fan. It still upsets me now.

Late 60's early 70's when the London clubs came down !!!! I remember there being so much trouble that at half time the police coming over the tannoy saying that if the violence didn't stop the Milton End would be cleared.

The trouble was most games as far as I recall.

There is no way you'd go to an away game in a replica shirt,(they weren't around then of course),always there would be groups of lads looking for a bit of trouble,it was sport then.

[spyinthesky]

Fortunately I didnt go but understand the trip to Marseille for the away leg of the European Cup Winners Cup game in 1976 was rather 'testing'

[Wurzel]

Never actually witnessed anything myself but remember an air of "menace" in the coach park both before and after the game.

 

A few months later at the Charity Shield game weren't we responsible for Wembley introducing a roof over the tunnel for all future games after some rather "unsportsmanlike" behaviour as the Liverpool players left the pitch with their trophy?

[captainchris]

At the cup final I saw for the first time a mugging in clear daylight. A small group of Saints fans in their late 30-40's were surrounded by a group of Man Utd fans in the car park in full view of the stadium.One saints fan was jumped on and they were like a pack of hyenas as they dragged him to the ground (he was a big bloke) when n the ground they beat him up and robbed him , they took his wallet and ticket.

Before the game in the media it as reported that there was going to be a massive police presence and even the SAS in plainclothes lol.

Sadly not one of them turned up to help this Saints fan. It still upsets me now.

Late 60's early 70's when the London clubs came down !!!! I remember there being so much trouble that at half time the police coming over the tannoy saying that if the violence didn't stop the Milton End would be cleared.

The trouble was most games as far as I recall.

There is no way you'd go to an away game in a replica shirt,(they weren't around then of course),always there would be groups of lads looking for a bit of trouble,it was sport then.

 

There are some pretty rose tinted glasses or sarcastic comments on here about the day. It was hostile and there were plenty of mostly Utd fans looking for trouble ....

There were groups of them after the game running between coaches, they did get on a couple near ours after the game. It was pretty scary at the time particularly after being held a knifepoint earlier before the game....

I wouldn’t trivialise the trouble and atmosphere that day...

[THINWHITEDUKE]

I attended 90% of the games mentioned on here and yes incidents did occur but are best left to us 'oldies' memories. Got to look after the old blood pressure, just reading some of the accounts had got my ticker pumping a wee bit too fast.

I think the thread should be closed before some idiot starts naming people on here, it's happened before and serves no purpose.

[captainchris]

I attended 90% of the games mentioned on here and yes incidents did occur but are best left to us 'oldies' memories. Got to look after the old blood pressure, just reading some of the accounts had got my ticker pumping a wee bit too fast.

I think the thread should be closed before some idiot starts naming people on here, it's happened before and serves no purpose.

 

Eh ? A post not in context with the messages on the thread ...

 

People recounting their experiences of crowd trouble, hardly a reason to close a thread or get high blood pressure.......

[ulstersaint1980]

A few teasing references to some other tasty games. I'm a sucker for an old war story: what's the deal with the Rangers game? Why were we playing them - was it a 'friendly'?

[Give it to Ron]

A few teasing references to some other tasty games. I'm a sucker for an old war story: what's the deal with the Rangers game? Why were we playing them - was it a 'friendly'?

Texaco Cup were everywhere and even a large group in Milton.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_Texaco_Cup

 

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Edited 28 February, 2018 by Give it to Ron

[alehouseboys]

A few teasing references to some other tasty games. I'm a sucker for an old war story: what's the deal with the Rangers game? Why were we playing them - was it a 'friendly'?

 

We played them home and away in the Texaco Cup in 1974. We bet them 3-1 up at Ibrox but they still bought 5,000 roaring drunks down for the second leg and they were intent on fighting anything in front of them. There were thousands of heavily drunk, very noisy lumps,most of us just looked on in admiration! It was fantastic support and despite losing 2-0 again on the night they decided to turn their attentions after to Scotland beating the English 2-0 a few months earlier at Hampden in the Home Internationals.

 

We later lost the final to Newcastle.

[Badger]

Texaco Cup were everywhere and even a large group in Milton.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974%E2%80%9375_Texaco_Cup

 

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Remember some of those games, but writer clearly didn't research it too well. Names our goalscorer as David Armstrong v Newcastle in the final first leg (in 1974) despite the fact he didn't join us until 1981.

[spyinthesky]

We played them home and away in the Texaco Cup in 1974. We bet them 3-1 up at Ibrox but they still bought 5,000 roaring drunks down for the second leg and they were intent on fighting anything in front of them. There were thousands of heavily drunk, very noisy lumps,most of us just looked on in admiration! It was fantastic support and despite losing 2-0 again on the night they decided to turn their attentions after to Scotland beating the English 2-0 a few months earlier at Hampden in the Home Internationals.

 

We later lost the final to Newcastle.

 

I cant remember if I went to the Rangers game

 

If I did I got away unscathed and dont have particular memories of the game but someone I know got slashed with a knife in Bedford Place and ended up winning compensation from some sort of victim scheme available at the time.

[kwsaint]

I was at the Rangers game in 1974. My recollection is of lots of very drunk scots in the Dell. Remember one of the goals as being a spectacular own goal. Defender played the ball back to the keeper from midway inside the Rangers half. Went sailing over the keepers head into the goal at the Milton Road End.

[Depressed of Shirley]

The Rangers game at the Dell was my first experience of people so drunk they couldn't even stand up.

 

My Dad and I were in the East Stand, and there was a group of 6 Rangers fans sat two rows below us. No problems at all, until I said I didn't have a programme. One of the Rangers lads disappeared down the stairs and came back with about 50 programmes he had liberated from someone/somewhere, and handed them out to everyone around him.

[Lets B Avenue]

Remember some of those games, but writer clearly didn't research it too well. Names our goalscorer as David Armstrong v Newcastle in the final first leg (in 1974) despite the fact he didn't join us until 1981.

 

They have confused it with a league game 10 years later (Nov 84) when Armstrong did score in a 1-0 home win.

[Nordic Saint]

The Rangers game at the Dell was my first experience of people so drunk they couldn't even stand up.

 

My Dad and I were in the East Stand, and there was a group of 6 Rangers fans sat two rows below us. No problems at all, until I said I didn't have a programme. One of the Rangers lads disappeared down the stairs and came back with about 50 programmes he had liberated from someone/somewhere, and handed them out to everyone around him.

 

The 1976 Charity Shield game at Wembley is probably the drunkest I've seen Saints fans en masse. There were about 40,000 of us there, many with bottles and cans inside the ground, which got lobbed at the Liverpool players as they left the pitch.

 

Whereas a few months earlier Wembley had been taken over by marauding United fans, at the Charity Shield it was Saints' fans who caused most of the trouble. The 1979 League Cup Final probably had the best atmosphere of the lot though, as the majority of the crowd, including part of the Forest end, were Saints fans. The club managed to get extra allocations of tickets because a lot of the neutral sections hadn't been sold.

 

[THINWHITEDUKE]

Eh ? A post not in context with the messages on the thread ...

 

People recounting their experiences of crowd trouble, hardly a reason to close a thread or get high blood pressure.......

 

Unless you were involved

[Ewell]

A fair few cockney reds used to drink in my parents pub in Epsom and they always had great pleasure in telling me how many Southampton fans they had bashed up in the coach park after the 76 final. This may have been an exaggeration but knowing these characters I wouldn't have been surprised if it was true. Having read a fair amount on the subject, Man U and the cockney reds in particular did have a fearsome reputation in the 70's but I wasn't old enough to know if these stories are true.

[iansums]

The 1976 Charity Shield game at Wembley is probably the drunkest I've seen Saints fans en masse. There were about 40,000 of us there, many with bottles and cans inside the ground, which got lobbed at the Liverpool players as they left the pitch.

 

Whereas a few months earlier Wembley had been taken over by marauding United fans, at the Charity Shield it was Saints' fans who caused most of the trouble. The 1979 League Cup Final probably had the best atmosphere of the lot though, as the majority of the crowd, including part of the Forest end, were Saints fans. The club managed to get extra allocations of tickets because a lot of the neutral sections hadn't been sold.

 

 

Remember it well, I was 13 years old an a section of Saints fans in the Forest end. At half time (we were 1-0 up) we couldn't understand why all the saints fans were disappearing and the section was full of Forest.