Burnley 1 Saints 1 - Match & Reactions Thread

[badgerx16]

Sims and Gabbiadini showed more commitment and effort in their cameos than the rest of the team did in 90 minutes.

[Victor]

Out by goal difference, wow.

 

No, not out of the zone - out of relegation places.

[corky morris]

A draw in spite of the managers ineptitude!!

[hypochondriac]

i swear to god.. if this is not our line-up next match my head is going to explode

 

----------------Gabbi-------------

------Tadic-----Boufal-----Sims--

---------Højbjerg----Lemina-----

Bertrand-Stephens-Hoedt-Cedric

--------------McCarthy------------

This x 1000. Should absolutely be the starting team with jwp ready to come on for tadic in the second half Edited 24 February, 2018 by hypochondriac

[obelisk]

Big game next weekend. Three points in that will be useful. Defeat unthinkable really.

[CanadaSaint]

Pellegrino is a gutless puke who makes Puel look like Rob Roy.

[macca155]

What's the matter with you all. We aren't very good that's obvious and in a relegation scrap. A point away from home is good enough at this stage. Saints creep up the table and have the ability to to do serious damage against Stoke next week and then Newcastle.

 

Need to have a bit of belief.... this is not a drill

[Deano6]

I think you'll find we are very much IN the relegation ZONE.

 

Well, we're not.

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/relegation-zone

[mrfahaji]

Good point. Showed character. Great to see Gabbi get on the score sheet.

 

Onwards and upwards

 

Are you predicting what Pellegrino will say?

 

I was complaining that with a few minutes to go it looked like we didn't even care (even though I don't actually believe that, I think rather that there was no instruction/cohesion etc).

 

We had a chance presented to us unexpectedly, and the players involved showed enough composure & desire to get a goal. At no other point in the entire game was there evidence of us showing character, apart from the fact that we didn't crumble and conceded 3 or 4 goals.

[Chez]

I thought a point was fair myself. I thought their goal was handball, although I might be wrong. We got lucky with the handball by McCarthy and the ref getting in the way in the build up to our goal, but it was a decent finish.

 

I suspect everyone is moaning about MP, but his subs turned the game round for us. No? Of course not. You have already made your mind up, so you cant credit the guy. I'm not convinced by him, but equally I prefer to judge him, players and the team on a game by game basis.

 

Burnley are pretty ****. I don't know how they win so many games. They are so limited with the ball and have next to no talent up front. They are extremely solid defensively, but basically they just boot it long to Barnes and live off scraps. It feels prehistoric to me. That said it must be effective. Certainly our two centre halves struggled more than I've seen all season to cope with the physical battle. Our other problem is that we simply do not have enough quality to break down these bang average teams. Tadic and Redmond were terribly ineffective and Carrillo struggled against Mee, who is decent. I thought JWP offered little. He is so slow its not true. Again Cedric was poor. The lack of competition in that position is telling.

[brmbrm]

Well, we're not.

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/relegation-zone

 

I think he means we are in the relegation zone zone.

 

A win next week and we are in the relegation zone zone zone

[nta786]

I think you'll find we are very much IN the relegation ZONE.

 

nah, we are in a relegation battle, but not in the relegation zone.

 

anyhow, nice assist from both the referee and Carrillo to set Gabbiadini up for what was a brilliant finish by him- want to see him play more- he has proven in spells his ability yet Pellegrino doesn't see it.

 

We rode our luck a fair bit today, what with the goal and McCarthy's handling outside the box- but then there are suggestions that Burnley's goal was also a handball.

 

Overall, maybe a draw was fair anyway, both teams were as bad as each other and this was not a good PL game in general.

[mrfahaji]

What's the matter with you all. We aren't very good that's obvious and in a relegation scrap. A point away from home is good enough at this stage. Saints creep up the table and have the ability to to do serious damage against Stoke next week and then Newcastle.

 

Need to have a bit of belief.... this is not a drill

 

The thing that's 'wrong with us' is that this was a winnable game on paper and on the field (it's not like Burnley played well). And the team looked as if it was playing for a 0-0.

 

Sometimes you have off days, but it looks like the team are playing that way in EVERY game. So it's clearly the instruction from the manager.

 

So yes, some people are disappointed that at a crucial time in the season, when we have a match we should be trying to pick up 3 points in, we showed very little attacking intent. And it wasn't even good enough to keep a clean sheet.

 

We were also TERRIBLE all game. Did you watch it? Was I happy when Gabbiadini scored? Of course. Did I think it was a deserved point or the equaliser had been coming? Not in the slightest.

[Edmonton Saint]

2 league wins in 19 games. Thats half a season. Yet we persist with this clown. Show me any other manager who could get away with such ineptitude

[badgerx16]

What's the matter with you all. We aren't very good that's obvious and in a relegation scrap. A point away from home is good enough at this stage. Saints creep up the table and have the ability to to do serious damage against Stoke next week and then Newcastle.

 

Need to have a bit of belief.... this is not a drill

We were extremely lucky today, and other then beating an appalling WBA team have shown very little to suggest we merit even being labelled as 'competent'. I "beleive" that the team is in the position that it's collective performances deserve, that the manager is completely out of his depth, and that the Board have left it far too long to replace him because they are not willing to lose face.

[aintforever]

Despite being relieved to get the equaliser a draw is not a great result given our situation.

 

Our run in is a nightmare, we need to be building up a cushion not just barely keeping our heads above water.

[mrfahaji]

I thought a point was fair myself. I thought their goal was handball, although I might be wrong. We got lucky with the handball by McCarthy and the ref getting in the way in the build up to our goal, but it was a decent finish.

 

I suspect everyone is moaning about MP, but his subs turned the game round for us. No? Of course not. You have already made your mind up, so you cant credit the guy. I'm not convinced by him, but equally I prefer to judge him, players and the team on a game by game basis.

 

Burnley are pretty ****. I don't know how they win so many games. They are so limited with the ball and have next to no talent up front. They are extremely solid defensively, but basically they just boot it long to Barnes and live off scraps. It feels prehistoric to me. That said it must be effective. Certainly our two centre halves struggled more than I've seen all season to cope with the physical battle. Our other problem is that we simply do not have enough quality to break down these bang average teams. Tadic and Redmond were terribly ineffective and Carrillo struggled against Mee, who is decent. I thought JWP offered little. He is so slow its not true. Again Cedric was poor. The lack of competition in that position is telling.

 

The issue with the subs is that a lot of people will deem it as evidence these players should be starting. Of course you can always look at the other side of the coin with these things. He does deserve credit for making the subs, but it felt more like "we're losing, throw on some forwards" kind of change to me.

 

I know that you might say that's my choice or my bias to view it that way, but I don't feel as though the subs played better because of the state of the game or the timing of the change, I felt like they did so because they are better players (or that they players that came off had been poor).

[inoffthepost]

Positive Mental Attitude.

 

Send boys onto the pitch with a view to scoring and, guess what, you score.

 

Send them out to contain and you're not likely to win.

 

Let's hope MP finally takes note!

[SaveloyMush]

Time for 3-5-2, surely, with both Gabbiadini and Carrillo up top and the Holy Trinity in midfield, flanked by Sims and McQueen? Why must we wait until the final roll of the dice to bring on the players who make something happen?

[davefoggy]

We have only beaten Everton & West Brom since November.

 

November.

 

That's 2 league wins in almost 4 months.

 

How, just how, is this clown still employed? It's beyond me and I give up

[UpweySaint]

Neither side really deserved a win, Ashley Barnes seems to think otherwise post match, but good to see a nice Sims cameo, a striker on the score sheet and us digging out something from nothing. Also Carrilo's pulling backpost and nodding across reminded me of Lambert. The man is slow but we really benefit from a target man.

 

I don't think much has changed in terms of our position today.

 

We are still in the mire, most want the manager and les out, we continue to underwhelm though we have scraped together some points lately and our cup run shows promise.

 

Personally I think we might just sneak over the line to safety. If we don't, oh well. Cheaper tickets, more games, academy products getting game time and clem may turn up at staplewood.

[beatlesaint]

I suspect everyone is moaning about MP, but his subs turned the game round for us. No? Of course not. You have already made your mind up, so you cant credit the guy. I'm not convinced by him, but equally I prefer to judge him, players and the team on a game by game basis.

 

judging him and the players on a game by game basis ? Umm, ok, well 2 wins out of 19 tells it’s own story so you may have to forgive your fellow supporters who aren’t quite as forgiving as yourself cos that run is, in a word, pathetic.

[Chez]

The issue with the subs is that a lot of people will deem it as evidence these players should be starting. Of course you can always look at the other side of the coin with these things. He does deserve credit for making the subs, but it felt more like "we're losing, throw on some forwards" kind of change to me.

 

I know that you might say that's my choice or my bias to view it that way, but I don't feel as though the subs played better because of the state of the game or the timing of the change, I felt like they did so because they are better players (or that they players that came off had been poor).

 

Gabiadini has been absolutely useless. He is just the kind if forward I like. All movement and runs between defenders, but his confidence has been shot, and that was down to him not MP. People moaning about him not starting are just ignoring how poor he has been. Now if you can get his confidence back to when he signed, then he should start every week. Sims has only just got back fit, so the pace in which MP is getting him into the side is about right. Even I, as a massive fan of Boufal, have to admit that he has been a little up and down, so although I have said in the past he should play every week, thats a hard thing for a manager to do.

 

I have disagreed with substitutions Saints managers have made pretty much my whole football watching life. Koeman was ****ing woeful at it IMO. That is not what defines a good and bad manager.

[Crab Lungs]

Can someone list all the winnable games we’ve had since December? I want to fukking p1ss myself laughing again at how this utter w4nker is still employed.

[Chez]

judging him and the players on a game by game basis ? Umm, ok, well 2 wins out of 19 tells it’s own story so you may have to forgive your fellow supporters who aren’t quite as forgiving as yourself cos that run is, in a word, pathetic.

 

cant argue with you. That record is not good enough. But in this specific game it could be argued that MP helped with his subs, thats all I was saying. My judgement was that MP made the right decisions this week. Doesn't mean he's suddenly become a great manager. Doesnt mean he hasnt made poor decisions before and during other games.

 

I have to say that we looked doomed. Stevens and Hoedt are not good enough. Cedric underperforming, and Ive said it all year that our attacking 3 or 4 is extremely average.

Edited 24 February, 2018 by Chez

[derry]

The positives, fast winger cross to back post for big man headed back across for skilled poacher to control and smash it in. That you **** is the way to play, by design not by bloody accident.

 

JWP was awful, pass it back, pass it sideways, pass it back. Sims is quicker, goes forward and is stronger than JWP, he must be brought in on the right. The big man needs a poacher, Gabbiadini has to play either up with him or in the hole off him. On the left, take your pick from Tadic, Redmond, Boufal or Long. Redmond put in a decent shift today but unlike Sims isn't confident enough to get straight at the defender, he would be a better player if he did.

 

Two from Lamina, Romeu and Hojbjerg, the back four unfortunately picks itself, we missed a trick there not bringing in a centre back, Bednarek isn't ready to play there. 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 I don't care although I'd go 4-3-3 and play Gabbiadini with Carillo and Sims as forwards.

 

I would have taken a point at kick off so I'm not despondent. JWP really ****ed me off, he totally neutered us down the right. Sims is a far better player there. The reason Ward was able to attack us down the left was JWP was there so he didn't have to worry about leaving the space behind him. With Sims there he wouldn't have been able to do that as Sims would have taken him to the cleaners.

 

Who the hell should have picked up Hendrick when he was left free on the right for their goal, I think Bertrand switched off. Stephens has got to stop ball watching and do something, that's the second goal in a week that he has laid off and let the opponent get to the ball first. That's not the first time this season either, we have conceded other goals the same way.

Edited 24 February, 2018 by derry

[redkeith]

Terrible game, crappy goal from Barnes as usual, but then the subs changed it for us.

 

We need to work out some way of playing Gabbi and Carrillo without surrendering the midfield. Lemina is good, but playing him as a one man midfield for the last 15 was pushing it a bit.

 

Sims should play more, but Stoke are very good at blocking out players like that, so maybe bench him next week and move Tadic or Redmond to the right, as JWP just won't turn forwards.

 

MAdley was terrible, apart from the assist for the goal and Mc Carthy decision. If he thought that McCarthy had the ball in is hands, then it should have been a free kick anyway for Lennon trying to kick the ball out of them. Also, the contact on Bertrand in the first half was a;most identical to the contact he gave Ali a pen for last week .

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Gabiadini has been absolutely useless. He is just the kind if forward I like. All movement and runs between defenders, but his confidence has been shot, and that was down to him not MP. People moaning about him not starting are just ignoring how poor he has been. Now if you can get his confidence back to when he signed, then he should start every week. Sims has only just got back fit, so the pace in which MP is getting him into the side is about right. Even I, as a massive fan of Boufal, have to admit that he has been a little up and down, so although I have said in the past he should play every week, thats a hard thing for a manager to do.

 

I have disagreed with substitutions Saints managers have made pretty much my whole football watching life. Koeman was ****ing woeful at it IMO. That is not what defines a good and bad manager.

 

And yet Redmond who is not fit to lace Gabbiadini’s boots, waltzes back into the starting 11?

[mrfahaji]

Gabiadini has been absolutely useless. He is just the kind if forward I like. All movement and runs between defenders, but his confidence has been shot, and that was down to him not MP. People moaning about him not starting are just ignoring how poor he has been. Now if you can get his confidence back to when he signed, then he should start every week. Sims has only just got back fit, so the pace in which MP is getting him into the side is about right. Even I, as a massive fan of Boufal, have to admit that he has been a little up and down, so although I have said in the past he should play every week, thats a hard thing for a manager to do.

 

I have disagreed with substitutions Saints managers have made pretty much my whole football watching life. Koeman was ****ing woeful at it IMO. That is not what defines a good and bad manager.

 

Agree with most of what you say, but I'm not sure saying someone's confidence being shot is about them and not the manager. It's a bit of a chicken & egg admittedly, but if I spent the game having to chase lost causes or trying to bring down balls out the sky against towering centre halves*, before eventually being dropped and giving 5 minute cameos at the end of a game where the team needs a goal, my confidence would be pretty low too!

 

* I realise that he has also been found wanting in scenarios where he should do better, but I feel like more often that not our gameplan has meant he is something of an isolated forward.

[Chez]

And yet Redmond who is not fit to lace Gabbiadini’s boots, waltzes back into the starting 11?

Apart from them playing in different positions, Redmond played pretty well last week and thus kept the shirt. Hardly waltzing back in. He has been out of the side a while and now given another go.

[Saint Albert]

In Pellegrino’s defence, his substitutions worked and produced an equalizer. He’s been criticized (deservedly) for being out-manoeuvred by other managers in the second half.

 

It seems unfair to single anyone out for playing poorly today because pretty much everyone was ****, until a few players pulled their thumbs out of their arses after the Burnley goal and then subs like Sims came on to make all the difference.

 

Sims probably deserves to start but I don’t think that Pellegrino’s brave enough to start such an inexperienced player.

 

Stil, that was a horrible performance. The team did not know what do do with Burnley’s aggressive pressing game. The team never seems to know what to do when the opposing team plays like Burnley did today.

[Chez]

Agree with most of what you say, but I'm not sure saying someone's confidence being shot is about them and not the manager. It's a bit of a chicken & egg admittedly, but if I spent the game having to chase lost causes or trying to bring down balls out the sky against towering centre halves*, before eventually being dropped and giving 5 minute cameos at the end of a game where the team needs a goal, my confidence would be pretty low too!

 

* I realise that he has also been found wanting in scenarios where he should do better, but I feel like more often that not our gameplan has meant he is something of an isolated forward.

 

at the start of the season he was first choice, had chances, but didn't take them. He has looked a shadow of the sharp player after the injury. Would you have carried on playing him? Austin had to be given a chance and equally Long. You make a good point about the service. Terrible. You make a good point about being isolated. The 4-4-2 formation is one we might have tried or 3-5-2.

[Red]

today, Pellegrino ineptitude was on full show.

 

Just watch sims start the next game on the left

 

decent point but why did he wait till. we were losing to go for it

 

he is a Disgrace

 

harsh on Burnley but we have hid it against us

 

Hope you're right but I very much doubt it - our clown is too afraid to win by his own admission.

 

BTW my last post so I will say it here - what a thick "See You Next Tuesday" Ashley Barnes is - interviewed on Sky Ireland and could barely string two words together!Footy really has come to his rescue.

[badgerx16]

Can someone list all the winnable games we’ve had since December? I want to fukking p1ss myself laughing again at how this utter w4nker is still employed.

More importantly now is a list of the 'winnable' games we have got left.

[Greenridge]

And yet Redmond who is not fit to lace Gabbiadini’s boots, waltzes back into the starting 11?

 

Along with the player of the season, Hojberg, not being able to get a starting spot.

[James]

Apart from them playing in different positions, Redmond played pretty well last week and thus kept the shirt. Hardly waltzing back in. He has been out of the side a while and now given another go.

 

He was crap last week, he was crap today.

[Saints foreva]

Can someone list all the winnable games we’ve had since December? I want to fukking p1ss myself laughing again at how this utter w4nker is still employed.

 

Bournemouth away

Huddersfield home

Palace home

Watford away

Brighton home

Burnley away

[stknowle]

A scraped point in spite of more managerial ineptitude. Grow a ****ing pair of balls you c u n t and send out a team to win not just to defend and hope not to lose.

[Edmonton Saint]

"It's one point, but the draw is almost the same as a win." Err no it’s not you clueless idiot.

[KK the 2nd]

I can’t believe the negative attitude on here. Not a great match but a really good result against a side in 7th who rarely lose at home. I can only think these are spoilt “Jonny Come Latelys” who weren’t around for many of the great relegation scraps of the past. I really hope we can get everyone behind the team for the Stoke game.

[Jonnyboy]

I thought a point was fair myself. I thought their goal was handball, although I might be wrong. We got lucky with the handball by McCarthy and the ref getting in the way in the build up to our goal, but it was a decent finish.

 

I suspect everyone is moaning about MP, but his subs turned the game round for us. No? Of course not. You have already made your mind up, so you cant credit the guy. I'm not convinced by him, but equally I prefer to judge him, players and the team on a game by game basis.

 

Burnley are pretty ****. I don't know how they win so many games. They are so limited with the ball and have next to no talent up front. They are extremely solid defensively, but basically they just boot it long to Barnes and live off scraps. It feels prehistoric to me. That said it must be effective. Certainly our two centre halves struggled more than I've seen all season to cope with the physical battle. Our other problem is that we simply do not have enough quality to break down these bang average teams. Tadic and Redmond were terribly ineffective and Carrillo struggled against Mee, who is decent. I thought JWP offered little. He is so slow its not true. Again Cedric was poor. The lack of competition in that position is telling.

 

Burnley don't win so many games. They haven't won in the league for 11 matches now.

[Chez]

A scraped point in spite of more managerial ineptitude. Grow a ****ing pair of balls you c u n t and send out a team to win not just to defend and hope not to lose.

 

what are you talking about?

[UpweySaint]

A scraped point in spite of more managerial ineptitude. Grow a ****ing pair of balls you c u n t and send out a team to win not just to defend and hope not to lose.

 

Not getting in to a debate about the manager's quality but surely the line up was one of his more forward thinking? Arguably we only had the one holding midfielder and played the likes of redmond and tadic. Short of going two up top (beyond brave away from home when we are struggling) not sure how much more attacking we could have gone?

 

He made good subs that had an impact too.

[Chez]

Burnley don't win so many games. They haven't won in the league for 11 matches now.

 

I honestly don't know how they won 11 games last season and 9 to date in this. They have nothing apart from a very solid defence. Strikers are average and attacking midfielders seem to be non existent.

[Mr Saints]

Our manager really is a ****ing useless coward.

[tajjuk]

If we win the Stoke game this will look like decent point, if we don't then it will look like a missed opportunity.

 

Burnley are hard to beat at home, there is no shame in a point there, even in their recent run they are still hard to beat, but you feel that had we been more adventurous we could have won it.

 

Hopefully Everton will beat Watford and Spurs will beat Palace, which would then still 6 clubs within one win of the relegation places.

 

We have to beat Stoke at home and my worry is we won't because we will be too negative and they will nick a goal.

[hasper57saint]

Whats the point in having two up front when they are not being fed from the midfield?Should,by some miracle, we stop this bloody crab football and endeavour to pass forward, then the two strikers will play off each other. Ricky Lambert set the standard. So how have we lost it? Pelegrino!!!! We could have won this but the clown is just an incompetent buffoon.

[stknowle]

what are you talking about?

 

Today’s football match Burnley v Southampton. I want our manager to play a more attacking formation and try to win the game, not throw on attackers after we’ve gone a goal down. That is what I am talking about.

[badgerx16]

I can’t believe the negative attitude on here. Not a great match but a really good result against a side in 7th who rarely lose at home. I can only think these are spoilt “Jonny Come Latelys” who weren’t around for many of the great relegation scraps of the past. I really hope we can get everyone behind the team for the Stoke game.

No it wasn't a 'great match', but when did we last produce any sort of decent performance ? What do you see in the squad, and the manager's game plans, that makes you think they are capable of emulating our past end-of-season heroics ? ( And I remember Saints being the first 'third' team to go down, in 1974, so hardly a JCL ).

[stknowle]

Not getting in to a debate about the manager's quality but surely the line up was one of his more forward thinking? Arguably we only had the one holding midfielder and played the likes of redmond and tadic. Short of going two up top (beyond brave away from home when we are struggling) not sure how much more attacking we could have gone?

 

He made good subs that had an impact too.

 

Why not start with two up front? It ain’t illegal. Agree the subs were good, they were attack minded subs and we improved due to them. It’s not just today, it’s all fecking season long we set out far too conservatively.