GarrettIvo Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Good time to play them. They've not won in 10 and seem to perform better against top 6 teams. A few on the physio table too. They had us sussed at SMS so hopefully this will be a bit different if MP has learned anything at all. Cautiously optimistic for a narrow win with AM performing heroics in the last 5 minutes. Rightio then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 are you saying we would be no better off with a better manager? interesting Marginally better off... My position hasn't changed from last season the squad isn't as good as it used to be. The last few transfer Windows have seen a decline in from the squad that finished 6th to the point where the manager is only part of the problem. As this thread is about the Burnley game let's take an example. Our only two senior CBs currently available are Stephens and Hoedt both are poor in the air playing against a side that likes to play, two up front, direct to a big CF. Doesn't matter who the manager he can't do much about that poor recruitment has left us with this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Quite surprised some are considering dropping JWP. Think he has been involved in pretty much half our goals so far this year ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Keep the side consistent with perhaps Sims in for Redmond. It’s going to be a close, rough and scrappy game which we could very easily lose. 2-1 is likely, but we may pinch a 1-1 draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Marginally better off... My position hasn't changed from last season the squad isn't as good as it used to be. The last few transfer Windows have seen a decline in from the squad that finished 6th to the point where the manager is only part of the problem. As this thread is about the Burnley game let's take an example. Our only two senior CBs currently available are Stephens and Hoedt both are poor in the air playing against a side that likes to play, two up front, direct to a big CF. Doesn't matter who the manager he can't do much about that poor recruitment has left us with this situation. To an extent I'd agree that our recruitment hasn't been spot on in the last couple of years but a competent manager will see one of their strengths will be matching up against an area where we are weaker and look to restrict their effectiveness by cutting off the supply line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 To an extent I'd agree that our recruitment hasn't been spot on in the last couple of years but a competent manager will see one of their strengths will be matching up against an area where we are weaker and look to restrict their effectiveness by cutting off the supply line. And Id agree with that to I'd quite happily see MoPe out the door and not shed a tear. My point is there is more to our current predicament than just the manager. It's interesting that WBA are allegedly looking to replace Pardew already.. https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBJmxi6?m=en-gb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Looks like Burnley have some players coming back from injury, whether them getting through the training ground match against Blackpool makes them ready for Saturday is another matter. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43132870 Typical Saints luck if Chris Wood is back fit to play us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 (edited) I'd want to see Sims given a start but one assumes the manager would deem that 'too risky' at this stage of the season... --------------------- McCarthy ---------------------- -- Cedric --- Stephens ---- Hoedt ---- Bertrand -- ---------- Hojbjerg ------------ Lemina ------------ -- JWP --------------- Sims -------------- Tadic -- ----------------------- Guido ------------------------ Bench: Forster, McQueen, Yoshida/Bednarek, Romeu, Boufal, Hesketh/Redmond, Long/Obafemi/Gabbi Edited 21 February, 2018 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 And Id agree with that to I'd quite happily see MoPe out the door and not shed a tear. My point is there is more to our current predicament than just the manager. It's interesting that WBA are allegedly looking to replace Pardew already.. https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBJmxi6?m=en-gb And to bring in Marco Silva to replace him. If he does come in and energises them, we could be bottom soon. All supposition at this stage. If my auntie had ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Just get Silva in. Stop messing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Rightio then. I'm hoping he has!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 This shouldn't affect too many of those travelling up north for this one, unless there is an issue on the A34. From the north of Hampshire the other route to the M40 is via the A404M from the M4 at Maidenhead to the M40 at High Wycombe, this approach to the M40 is closed for this whole weekend. Which might in turn punt a bit more traffic onto the A34. Like I say for the majority it won't be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Faz Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Marginally better off... My position hasn't changed from last season the squad isn't as good as it used to be. The last few transfer Windows have seen a decline in from the squad that finished 6th to the point where the manager is only part of the problem. As this thread is about the Burnley game let's take an example. Our only two senior CBs currently available are Stephens and Hoedt both are poor in the air playing against a side that likes to play, two up front, direct to a big CF. Doesn't matter who the manager he can't do much about that poor recruitment has left us with this situation. agree with all this , Manager isnt very good , but he hasnt been dealt the best hand, we have largely replaced proven quality with unproven potential and it has lead to a decline in quality across the whole squad , Stephens and Hoedt are simply not as goos as Fonte ( of a few years ago) / VVD or Toby, whilst the other teams around us have also improved. So we go to Burnley , where they are probably the favoutrites , and looking at us as 3 points they should pick up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 And Id agree with that to I'd quite happily see MoPe out the door and not shed a tear. My point is there is more to our current predicament than just the manager. It's interesting that WBA are allegedly looking to replace Pardew already.. https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBJmxi6?m=en-gb When you sack the 2 people who hired him, I'm surprised he's still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 agree with all this , Manager isnt very good , but he hasnt been dealt the best hand, we have largely replaced proven quality with unproven potential and it has lead to a decline in quality across the whole squad , Stephens and Hoedt are simply not as goos as Fonte ( of a few years ago) / VVD or Toby, whilst the other teams around us have also improved. So we go to Burnley , where they are probably the favoutrites , and looking at us as 3 points they should pick up . Which teams above us in the league have better squads than us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 (edited) Which teams above us in the league have better squads than us? Only Everton and arguably Leicester (i'd say Mahrez, Vardy and Schmeichel aside very even). Other teams have individual players better than what we have, but as an overall squad, with a half competent manager, we should be 10 easy... As Puel proved last seen. That's not to say that our recruitment hasn't been terrible though. We continually fail to address area's in which we need improvement, window after window (CB & forwards most recently). Edited 21 February, 2018 by SKD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 A love this question and subsequent answers. 'We aren't where we are supposed to be” and, “who else has a better squad than us etc etc'. And the answers are always a classic case of looking at things through red and white tinted glasses or just not understanding other team’s squads. Firstly Leicester have an infinitely better squad. Not only the ones mentioned but you forgot Ndidi, Okazaki, Silva, Gray, Maguire, Iborra etc etc all performing or perform at a consistently higher standard then their Saints counterpart. Now, I appreciate that this actually hurts my Pellegrino rhetoric somewhat, and I do agree to some extent that we should be higher up the table based on the first team alone (supporting my thoughts that Pellegrino is a terrible, defensive minded manager with almost zero clue as to how he got us into this mess and even less of an idea how to get us out of it) BUT, let’s not go pretending that we have something of a superior squad to all those around us. It’s at best arrogance and at worst an insult to those teams. Player for player, in relevant positions, our squad is on par with at least Newcastle, Watford, Swansea, Burnley, Stoke etc etc and worse than West Ham (happy to debate some of but not all of those selected). Of the teams above us I would say teams like Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Brighton and Palace are legitimately outperforming us. Our obvious strengths are in LB/RB where we have quality starters (Bertrand is one of the best in the league regardless of what some say on here and Cedric still a suitable RB) and their replacements also very adequate in McQueen, Pied etc, and that we are stacked in CM where Højbjerg (finally), Lemina and Romeu are of obvious quality. But our attacking, goalkeeping and central defensive options compared to all those listed above, are woefully inadequate or again at least on par. We have a backup striker who has one goal in 20 games (1138 mins) and our new record signing who has a career comparable to said backup in terms of goals to games. Our CBs are down to the bare bones and the regular starters are arguably second rate/learning their trade anyway, and our attacking midfield is basically a joke. Tadic, for all his faults, is the only consistent (lose term) assist provider and scorer where Redmond, JWP, Boufal (who I rate but I think is being horribly mismanaged) all have their flaws. Davis is a busted flush despite being the joint second top scorer (which tells you everything) and the ones who I would have hoped to have had more game time (Gabbiadini, Sims and McQueen) have splinters in their a**. Just to give some examples, I would happily take each and every one of Swansea’s attacking line up vs ours. Sure, they may not be very good either but they have scored more than us all season and are currently scoring more over the last few weeks. So let's stop pretending we are the Brazil team of the 1970's (I know no one said or implied that btw) and start hoping, at least, we find someone who comes into a bit of form (JwP as one example) in the attacking midfield/striking options and starting this weekend because we could really use those 3 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Only Everton and arguably Leicester (i'd say Mahrez, Vardy and Schmeichel aside very even). Other teams have individual players better than what we have, but as an overall squad, with a half competent manager, we should be 10 easy... As Puel proved last seen. That's not to say that our recruitment hasn't been terrible though. We continually fail to address area's in which we need improvement, window after window (CB & forwards most recently). Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Only Everton and arguably Leicester (i'd say Mahrez, Vardy and Schmeichel aside very even). Other teams have individual players better than what we have, but as an overall squad, with a half competent manager, we should be 10 easy... As Puel proved last seen. That's not to say that our recruitment hasn't been terrible though. We continually fail to address area's in which we need improvement, window after window (CB & forwards most recently). Agreed, as bad as our recruitment has been, our squad should be comfortably mid table at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Really? - last year (same as this year) we have struggled to score goals. Our only real goal scorer seems to be permanently injured. Without a real goalscoring threat we are always going to be struggling to score goals. Not giving the manager a free pass on this - think he is completely useless - but it is not just the manager. We have failed in our recruitment for attacking players for the last 2-3 years and we are suffering a lot because of this. So on that basis, while the team is underperforming as the sum of its parts, I don't think we are 7th or 8th best squad in the League. In fact I think we have a pretty mediocre squad that is unbalanced, and like our relegation season, not as good as we think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 (edited) A love this question and subsequent answers. 'We aren't where we are supposed to be” and, “who else has a better squad than us etc etc'. And the answers are always a classic case of looking at things through red and white tinted glasses or just not understanding other team’s squads. Firstly Leicester have an infinitely better squad. Not only the ones mentioned but you forgot Ndidi, Okazaki, Silva, Gray, Maguire, Iborra etc etc all performing or perform at a consistently higher standard then their Saints counterpart. Now, I appreciate that this actually hurts my Pellegrino rhetoric somewhat, and I do agree to some extent that we should be higher up the table based on the first team alone (supporting my thoughts that Pellegrino is a terrible, defensive minded manager with almost zero clue as to how he got us into this mess and even less of an idea how to get us out of it) BUT, let’s not go pretending that we have something of a superior squad to all those around us. It’s at best arrogance and at worst an insult to those teams. Player for player, in relevant positions, our squad is on par with at least Newcastle, Watford, Swansea, Burnley, Stoke etc etc and worse than West Ham (happy to debate some of but not all of those selected). Of the teams above us I would say teams like Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Brighton and Palace are legitimately outperforming us. Our obvious strengths are in LB/RB where we have quality starters (Bertrand is one of the best in the league regardless of what some say on here and Cedric still a suitable RB) and their replacements also very adequate in McQueen, Pied etc, and that we are stacked in CM where Højbjerg (finally), Lemina and Romeu are of obvious quality. But our attacking, goalkeeping and central defensive options compared to all those listed above, are woefully inadequate or again at least on par. We have a backup striker who has one goal in 20 games (1138 mins) and our new record signing who has a career comparable to said backup in terms of goals to games. Our CBs are down to the bare bones and the regular starters are arguably second rate/learning their trade anyway, and our attacking midfield is basically a joke. Tadic, for all his faults, is the only consistent (lose term) assist provider and scorer where Redmond, JWP, Boufal (who I rate but I think is being horribly mismanaged) all have their flaws. Davis is a busted flush despite being the joint second top scorer (which tells you everything) and the ones who I would have hoped to have had more game time (Gabbiadini, Sims and McQueen) have splinters in their a**. Just to give some examples, I would happily take each and every one of Swansea’s attacking line up vs ours. Sure, they may not be very good either but they have scored more than us all season and are currently scoring more over the last few weeks. So let's stop pretending we are the Brazil team of the 1970's (I know no one said or implied that btw) and start hoping, at least, we find someone who comes into a bit of form (JwP as one example) in the attacking midfield/striking options and starting this weekend because we could really use those 3 pts. No one, literally no one has claimed we are the Brazil team of the 70's. What many have said, which IMO is correct, we fundamentally have a good team (Mid-table PL at the very least) and we are currently massively under-performing. Cedric, Bertrand, Lemina would get into any team in the PL and then you have PEH, JWP (on current form), Tadic, Austin and Romeu who would comfortably get into any team from 7/8th down. We also have a number of under performing, key, players in Forster, Boufal, Redmond, Gabbi & Hodet. I'd actually only say 2 or 3 aren't good enough for the PL Long, Stephens & probably Davis (now). Off the top of my head, I don't think I could name any more than 5 players from Newcastle, Watford, Swansea, Burnley, Stoke that I would take (Richarlison, Doucouré, Heaton / Butland and Shaqiri - at a push probably Andre Ayew as well). Of course, as I said, other PL teams do have individual players better than what we have. West Ham a difficultly one, probably about the same but they have an aging squad. You say that you'd prefer Swansea's attacking options, but would you have said that a month ago when they were dog sh!t under Clement? On paper, we are 2 or 3 players away from having a very, very strong squad (a pacy winger - i.e Promes, a solid CB and a CF (if Austin doesn't stay fit - also yet to be seen how Carrillo performs), you could also argue a GK on Forster's current form, but he is clearly better than that (he's proven that in the past)). What we need is a manager who has the ability to get the best out of what we currently have. I feel a bit for MP as he inherited a squad that Puel left with moral destroyed, pretty much. That has certainly played a part in this season, but he has also massively underachieved - I don't see any way to argue that. Edited 21 February, 2018 by SKD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 When you sack the 2 people who hired him, I'm surprised he's still there. This probably explains it: :-) https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/feb/20/david-squires-on-west-brom-mini-break-in-barcelona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 This probably explains it: :-) https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/feb/20/david-squires-on-west-brom-mini-break-in-barcelona An all expenses paid holiday for Pards and his lads before the new lot take over, I'd call that pretty damn smart! For our penny pinching tight wads, 'twas a jog on the beach at Lepe in the rain with 3degC to warm them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Quite surprised some are considering dropping JWP. Think he has been involved in pretty much half our goals so far this year ! 4 goals and 2 assists in the last 7, pretty sure not having his threat from set pieces when others are struggling to score is a bad idea, we have looked threatening to pretty much every team from our set pieces and I think that is in large part down to his delivery. We need 4 points from this and Stoke, though I fancy us to win this one, they are not in good form and at home will not just sit back and defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Faz Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Which teams above us in the league have better squads than us? That wasnt my point , my point was a couple of seasons ago we had a much better first team , hence we were higher up the table . I didn't say that others outside the top 6 have a better squad than us , but that we dont have the same advantage we had , add a poor manager into that mix - and you quickly struggle . I'm not arguing that a better manager couldnt get more out of these resources, I think we should be doing better, but lets not pretend that we have anywhere near as good a team as we had a few years ago - our decline is not only due to a poor first team coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 No one, literally no one has claimed we are the Brazil team of the 70's. What many have said, which IMO is correct, we fundamentally have a good team (Mid-table PL at the very least) and we are currently massively under-performing. Cedric, Bertrand, Lemina would get into any team in the PL and then you have PEH, JWP (on current form), Tadic, Austin and Romeu who would comfortably get into any team from 7/8th down. We also have a number of under performing, key, players in Forster, Boufal, Redmond, Gabbi & Hodet. I'd actually only say 2 or 3 aren't good enough for the PL Long, Stephens & probably Davis (now). Off the top of my head, I don't think I could name any more than 5 players from Newcastle, Watford, Swansea, Burnley, Stoke that I would take (Richarlison, Doucouré, Heaton / Butland and Shaqiri - at a push probably Andre Ayew as well). Of course, as I said, other PL teams do have individual players better than what we have. West Ham a difficultly one, probably about the same but they have an aging squad. You say that you'd prefer Swansea's attacking options, but would you have said that a month ago when they were dog sh!t under Clement? On paper, we are 2 or 3 players away from having a very, very strong squad (a pacy winger - i.e Promes, a solid CB and a CF (if Austin doesn't stay fit - also yet to be seen how Carrillo performs), you could also argue a GK on Forster's current form, but he is clearly better than that (he's proven that in the past)). What we need is a manager who has the ability to get the best out of what we currently have. I feel a bit for MP as he inherited a squad that Puel left with moral destroyed, pretty much. That has certainly played a part in this season, but he has also massively underachieved - I don't see any way to argue that. Not sure why you started with the ‘Brazil 1970’s’ quip from my post when I made it abundantly clear that it was a) a quip and b) I knew no one was saying or implying it…I mean I even said those exact words but anyway… Cedric, and Lemina would not ‘just get into any team in PL’, not even close, and JWP, PEH etc wouldn’t just walk into any team below 7th because there are better players in a lot of those clubs already playing in those positions. Taking teams from 6th below (because your claim that Lemina and Cedric would displace anyone from the top 6 is laughable) I would argue that Lemina’s is on par with Ndidi (one you missed off your relatively limited Leicester list) and Gana for Everton, and that is just off the top of my head. Cedric no better than Naughton or Yedlin again off the top of my head. The one from that list that may feasibly be good enough to get into the top 6 and I would say is a genuine top performer (despite a relatively low key season) is Bertrand who could potentially oust a few of the top 6 LBs and almost all of the rest. On the question of Swansea’s attack the answer is ‘yes’, because I prefer to rely on facts and numbers as opposed to JUST league position and believing we have a good squad when realistically we don’t. And the fact of the matter is Austin is the only striker of our mob that comes anywhere close to being an accomplished prem striker. To our Austin, Long, Carrillo and Gabbiadini, they have Bony (meh but he’s got more than anyone other than Gabbi and Austin), Ayew (only bettered by Austin), Abraham (only bettered by Austin). There isn’t much in it admittedly and Austin is probably the pick of all those names BUT seeing as we are addressing squads, on paper they have three strikers with 3 goals or more. We have 2, our main striker at the moment has 0 and our back up has 1, that’s pathetic. Also, on paper this, if we had that….Again if my Aunt had balls….We don’t. We were never going to get Promes because he is just far too good for us so we don’t have that pacy attacking wide man so the point is moot. We were all told Redmond was going to be that, or was it striker, or a 10, or…Or nothing. He was average at Norwich and he’s average here. Realising this could go around in circles I’ll say I pretty much agree with a lot of what you say, we’ve underachieved, Mope is a terrible manager and a lot of players are performing somewhat lower than their averages (although many of them are just bang average anyway), but I think anyone saying we have a better squad than teams 7 – 20 is either arrogant or ignorant. I don’t think there’s much difference in the squads placed 7-20. I think Everton have a better squad and starting 11 but miss a little bit upfront to really get them going, Leicester have a better 11 and matchday squad and then the rest are pretty much similar. This is where MP is both complicit in our failure this season (i.e. all things being equal he should be doing much better) but also the reason why it’s not all his fault (although let me be clear, he’s always been a defensive minded average manager so we shouldn’t be shocked that he’s now being average here as well). My hope is that Hoedt stops being a calamity waiting to happen, that Carrillo scores a bloody goal, that Boufal is played in his rightful position and that we start attacking in numbers and that by some miracle we start to pick up enough points to stay up. Then, regardless of what happens, we do away with MP in the summer because I can’t stand his (mis)management (basically he’s useless as a manager), we pick up some decent attacking players from abroad/lower leagues (forget Promes, he’s a ruthless animal and way too good for us), address the bollix at board level and start to put together a decent team we can enjoy and be proud of again from next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 On the question of Swansea’s attack the answer is ‘yes’, because I prefer to rely on facts and numbers as opposed to JUST league position 1) Are you aware Swansea City are the lowest scorers in the Premier League in 2017/18. They have scored only 20 goals in 28 games! 2) Southampton in 2017/18 have scored more league goals than... Burnley Newcastle United Brighton & Hove Albion Crystal Palace Swansea City Huddersfield Town Stoke City West Bromwich Albion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 This probably explains it: :-) https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/feb/20/david-squires-on-west-brom-mini-break-in-barcelona Hilarious. Shouldn't be watching it at work, having to stifle s******s now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Any chance someone could start a match build-up thread so we can discuss this weekend's game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Not sure why you started with the ‘Brazil 1970’s’ quip from my post when I made it abundantly clear that it was a) a quip and b) I knew no one was saying or implying it…I mean I even said those exact words but anyway… Cedric, and Lemina would not ‘just get into any team in PL’, not even close, and JWP, PEH etc wouldn’t just walk into any team below 7th because there are better players in a lot of those clubs already playing in those positions. Taking teams from 6th below (because your claim that Lemina and Cedric would displace anyone from the top 6 is laughable) I would argue that Lemina’s is on par with Ndidi (one you missed off your relatively limited Leicester list) and Gana for Everton, and that is just off the top of my head. Cedric no better than Naughton or Yedlin again off the top of my head. The one from that list that may feasibly be good enough to get into the top 6 and I would say is a genuine top performer (despite a relatively low key season) is Bertrand who could potentially oust a few of the top 6 LBs and almost all of the rest. On the question of Swansea’s attack the answer is ‘yes’, because I prefer to rely on facts and numbers as opposed to JUST league position and believing we have a good squad when realistically we don’t. And the fact of the matter is Austin is the only striker of our mob that comes anywhere close to being an accomplished prem striker. To our Austin, Long, Carrillo and Gabbiadini, they have Bony (meh but he’s got more than anyone other than Gabbi and Austin), Ayew (only bettered by Austin), Abraham (only bettered by Austin). There isn’t much in it admittedly and Austin is probably the pick of all those names BUT seeing as we are addressing squads, on paper they have three strikers with 3 goals or more. We have 2, our main striker at the moment has 0 and our back up has 1, that’s pathetic. Also, on paper this, if we had that….Again if my Aunt had balls….We don’t. We were never going to get Promes because he is just far too good for us so we don’t have that pacy attacking wide man so the point is moot. We were all told Redmond was going to be that, or was it striker, or a 10, or…Or nothing. He was average at Norwich and he’s average here. Realising this could go around in circles I’ll say I pretty much agree with a lot of what you say, we’ve underachieved, Mope is a terrible manager and a lot of players are performing somewhat lower than their averages (although many of them are just bang average anyway), but I think anyone saying we have a better squad than teams 7 – 20 is either arrogant or ignorant. I don’t think there’s much difference in the squads placed 7-20. I think Everton have a better squad and starting 11 but miss a little bit upfront to really get them going, Leicester have a better 11 and matchday squad and then the rest are pretty much similar. This is where MP is both complicit in our failure this season (i.e. all things being equal he should be doing much better) but also the reason why it’s not all his fault (although let me be clear, he’s always been a defensive minded average manager so we shouldn’t be shocked that he’s now being average here as well). My hope is that Hoedt stops being a calamity waiting to happen, that Carrillo scores a bloody goal, that Boufal is played in his rightful position and that we start attacking in numbers and that by some miracle we start to pick up enough points to stay up. Then, regardless of what happens, we do away with MP in the summer because I can’t stand his (mis)management (basically he’s useless as a manager), we pick up some decent attacking players from abroad/lower leagues (forget Promes, he’s a ruthless animal and way too good for us), address the bollix at board level and start to put together a decent team we can enjoy and be proud of again from next season. Stopped reading at this bit because you are 100% wrong on this. Also, as MLG pointed out, the stats you 'prefer to rely on' are wrong. The rest is down to opinion. I think we have a good squad, one that is underachieving and needs a few additions. FWIW, Lemina would easily get in and improve Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal who are all crying out for a solid DM, especially Arsenal. Arguably he'd improve united as well who are lacking in this area. Also, other than walker and tripper, I'm not sure I can name any RB's better than Cedric (Naughton or Yedlin is an odd one....). FWIW, i'm one of the clubs biggest critics so I'm not looking through 'red and white glasses', I just honestly believe that we have some very good, under performing players. Proof will eventually be in the pudding when they move on to bigger and better clubs, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Good time to play them. They've not won in 10 and seem to perform better against top 6 teams. A few on the physio table too. They had us sussed at SMS so hopefully this will be a bit different if MP has learned anything at all. Cautiously optimistic for a narrow win with AM performing heroics in the last 5 minutes. MP doesn't seem to learn anything, so I'm not optimistic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Stopped reading at this bit because you are 100% wrong on this. Also, as MLG pointed out, the stats you 'prefer to rely on' are wrong. The rest is down to opinion. I think we have a good squad, one that is underachieving and needs a few additions. FWIW, Lemina would easily get in and improve Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal who are all crying out for a solid DM, especially Arsenal. Arguably he'd improve united as well who are lacking in this area. nah Utd well equipped given they have Pogba, Matic and Herrera. Agree with other three clubs though! Also, other than walker and tripper, I'm not sure I can name any RB's better than Cedric (Naughton or Yedlin is an odd one....). I rate Valencia, Moses, Walker, Trippier, Bellerin, Coleman more- and felt Clyne was better with us than Cedric has been. regardless, Cedric is in top 10 PL right backs in my opinion, but there are a few more better than him this season. Cedric's crossing is certainly his weakest statistic. FWIW, i'm one of the clubs biggest critics so I'm not looking through 'red and white glasses', I just honestly believe that we have some very good, under performing players. Proof will eventually be in the pudding when they move on to bigger and better clubs, time will tell. ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Agreed, as bad as our recruitment has been, our squad should be comfortably mid table at least. Hmm not overly convinced. We should be doing better than what we are, but we have 3 glaring holes....CB, AM & ST. None of the options we have in those positions are good enough at the moment. Maybe down to tactics, but the individuals playing there are also way weaker than previous years. VVD > Stephens Mane > Redmond/Boufal Pelle > Carrillo/Gabbi The difference is that we can't keep clean sheets, and we struggle to score goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Stopped reading at this bit because you are 100% wrong on this. Also, as MLG pointed out, the stats you 'prefer to rely on' are wrong. The rest is down to opinion. I think we have a good squad, one that is underachieving and needs a few additions. FWIW, Lemina would easily get in and improve Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal who are all crying out for a solid DM, especially Arsenal. Arguably he'd improve united as well who are lacking in this area. Also, other than walker and tripper, I'm not sure I can name any RB's better than Cedric (Naughton or Yedlin is an odd one....). FWIW, i'm one of the clubs biggest critics so I'm not looking through 'red and white glasses', I just honestly believe that we have some very good, under performing players. Proof will eventually be in the pudding when they move on to bigger and better clubs, time will tell. Then you're just another one in the ignorant category. Promes has 22 goals and 15 assists in his last 44 matches, stats way above our level. His agent said just last week that they are aiming way above Southampton (Liverpool) and also so far I'm 100% right because he's not ****ing here is he? Annoyingly I got caught up in the hype that was our pitiful offer in January but the long and short is he isn't here and won't be this summer either. And after your nonsense about Lemina getting into Chelsea's first team I just stopped reading because it made it quite clear you have no idea what you're on about. He'd oust Kante would he, ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 ^^^ Fair point about Bellerin forgot about him and I agree with Clyne, but who knows what’s going on with him. Cedric would improve Chelsea, IMO. UTD do have a lot of options, he’s no way better than Matic, but IMO pogba and Herrera are more attack minded. Personally I don’t buy the Pogba fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Cedric has literally zero assists and zero goals this season. Yeah top 6 material that. Seriously people, those glasses aren't just tinted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Then you're just another one in the ignorant category. Promes has 22 goals and 15 assists in his last 44 matches, stats way above our level. His agent said just last week that they are aiming way above Southampton (Liverpool) and also so far I'm 100% right because he's not ****ing here is he? Annoyingly I got caught up in the hype that was our pitiful offer in January but the long and short is he isn't here and won't be this summer either. And after your nonsense about Lemina getting into Chelsea's first team I just stopped reading because it made it quite clear you have no idea what you're on about. He'd oust Kante would he, ok then. It was agreed, Moscow pulled plug in last minute as couldn’t get replacement - fact. If he’ll come in the summer or not, who knows, but he was 100% coming to us in January. He’d play next to Kante. Drink water and bakayoko are pony and fabregas too weak defensively to play in a 2. Keep reading your ‘stats’ and believe they’ll make you the next Pep though, pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Cedric has literally zero assists and zero goals this season. Yeah top 6 material that. Seriously people, those glasses aren't just tinted... Stephens has litterally scored more than VvD this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 1) Are you aware Swansea City are the lowest scorers in the Premier League in 2017/18. They have scored only 20 goals in 28 games! 2) Southampton in 2017/18 have scored more league goals than... Burnley Newcastle United Brighton & Hove Albion Crystal Palace Swansea City Huddersfield Town Stoke City West Bromwich Albion I am aware of this, but, and this seems to be an issue on here, neither of what you say addressed my point. Swansea's attack have actually scored more than ours and as my point was I'd rather have theirs to ours based on this alone. And the fact that our current striker and back options are rubbish and Gabbi hasn't scored since West Ham (when he scored 33% of his goals). So, the stats don't prove in wrong at all SKD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 It was agreed, Moscow pulled plug in last minute as couldn’t get replacement - fact. If he’ll come in the summer or not, who knows, but he was 100% coming to us in January. He’d play next to Kante. Drink water and bakayoko are pony and fabregas too weak defensively to play in a 2. Keep reading your ‘stats’ and believe they’ll make you the next Pep though, pal You are wrong on almost every level...and what is it with this 'pal' bull**** that happens on here. He wouldn't play next to Kante because Fabregas, a superior player in every way already does, seriously you're embarrassing yourself by suggesting he gets in the team above either. He also played there, just last night, against the best team in Spain. Honestly do you watch football that doesn't involve Saints? As for Promes, you're again wrong. As reported literally everywhere the deal was never EVER agreed by Spartak. As reported the offer (which was lower than his release clause) was rejected. That's it. He wasn't coming, he in fact never left Spain, and isn't here, making you factually inaccurate on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Cedric has literally zero assists and zero goals this season. Yeah top 6 material that. Seriously people, those glasses aren't just tinted... https://www.footballtransferleague.co.uk/players/cedric_soares All the links Cedric has had to elite clubs. I’m still looking for Yedlin and Naughtons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 You are wrong on almost every level...and what is it with this 'pal' bull**** that happens on here. He wouldn't play next to Kante because Fabregas, a superior player in every way already does, seriously you're embarrassing yourself by suggesting he gets in the team above either. He also played there, just last night, against the best team in Spain. Honestly do you watch football that doesn't involve Saints? As for Promes, you're again wrong. As reported literally everywhere the deal was never EVER agreed by Spartak. As reported the offer (which was lower than his release clause) was rejected. That's it. He wasn't coming, he in fact never left Spain, and isn't here, making you factually inaccurate on all levels. Let’s agree to disagree then, Pep. It’s a game of opinions and all that. Keep playing your computer games and monitoring those stats, you might make it some day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 https://www.footballtransferleague.co.uk/players/cedric_soares All the links Cedric has had to elite clubs. I’m still looking for Yedlin and Naughtons Ffs lol stop. They both literally signed for Spurs before their current clubs. Yedlin may have only played one game but he was being touted around before signing for Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Ffs lol stop. They both literally signed for Spurs before their current clubs. Yedlin may have only played one game but he was being touted around before signing for Spurs. Therefore not good enough for Spurs, who at that point where not at the level, nowhere near in fact, they currently are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Which teams above us in the league have better squads than us? Man City shade it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Let’s agree to disagree then, Pep. It’s a game of opinions and all that. Keep playing your computer games and monitoring those stats, you might make it some day Honestly, just log onto F365 once in a while, even that'll improve your limited knowledge somewhat. The Fabregas statement alone is just, well mind boggling seeing as though he was doing exactly what you claim he can't do less than 24 hours earlier against Europe's elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Fair point about Bellerin forgot about him and I agree with Clyne, but who knows what’s going on with him. Cedric would improve Chelsea, IMO. UTD do have a lot of options, he’s no way better than Matic, but IMO pogba and Herrera are more attack minded. Personally I don’t buy the Pogba fuss. Cedric better than Moses? No chance pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Honestly, just log onto F365 once in a while, even that'll improve your limited knowledge somewhat. The Fabregas statement alone is just, well mind boggling seeing as though he was doing exactly what you claim he can't do less than 24 hours earlier You’re either a student, American or a virgin who plays too many computer games. As for Fabregas, I’m not doubting he is a better player. IMO he is not as strong as Lemina is defensively, though. All that aside, take Chelsea out of the equation, he will improve the majority of teams in this league. Some that’s have ‘stats above our level’. It’s all opinions at the end of the day, you are clearly as strong in yours as I am in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 Cedric gets into decent attacking positions but his final ball is really, really poor. 0 assists this season, very poor for an attacking right back. Pied has more than him ffs and he's barely played. I guess that's why he plays for us and not one of the big teams. Lemina is a quality player, there's no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 21 February, 2018 Share Posted 21 February, 2018 You’re either a student, American or a virgin who plays too many computer games. As for Fabregas, I’m not doubting he is a better player. IMO he is not as strong as Lemina is defensively, though. All that aside, take Chelsea out of the equation, he will improve the majority of teams in this league. Some that’s have ‘stats above our level’. It’s all opinions at the end of the day, you are clearly as strong in yours as I am in mine. Wrong on all three accounts but that's hardly a surprise given your track record today. But don't get insulting because you've made a fool of yourself. You're clearly the sort that rocks up, watches Saints only and has an no idea about any other teams anywhere else. Which is why you think Lemina would improve Chelsea's team (over two world class players in Kante and Fabregas)...your words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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