WBA 1 Saints 2 - We March On Reactions

[Charlie Wayman]

Saw the whole game, here in the land down under. I have to say, win aside, that was not a convincing performance by any means, 5 yards forward 20 yards back, seems to be our modus operandi, and that makes for boring football. Why oh why, our players are scared to take on the opposition, or knock and run, is beyond me, when Liverpool played this triangular football, they played it moving forward, we play it backwards, towards our own goal. My mom was McCarthy, not just for his saves, but for the calm confidence he seems to give the whole defence. 5 shots tells the story of our attack, we get the ball up there, then either give it away, or play it back to the halfway line.

 

6/10 for the team performance, I still want this useless manager out, winning this match only papers over the problems largely created by him.

 

This! It's becoming predictable and tedious. Has BackWard Prowse ever gone past a player

[shurlock]

Thought the league fixture was more comfortable than this one.

[AK]

My first trip to The Hawthorns in 40 years of watching Saints,many thanks for the tips and advice ending up driving parked in The Methodist Church and went to The Vine pre-match. Good day out and worth a visit.

 

I seemed to have seen a different game to many. Performance wise I thought we were average at best,we look decidedly dodgy at the back I really don’t think Stephens or Hoedt are good enough to start.Stephens lost Hegazi at virtually every set piece and Hoedt made another howler along the lines of the one he made against Liverpool but luckily it fell to JRod not Salah this time.Despite the great finish by Rondon ,Stephens is at fault for their goal in my opinion.We were saved by the MOM McCarthy where as I can’t remeber Foster making a save.They also hit the crossbar and Bertrand did unbelievablely well to head off the line. There were also several goalmouth scrambles and one particularly I recall in the first half when WBA really should have scored.

We were maybe marginally the better team in the first half but never comfortable and really clinging on in the end.

 

I’m in a minority it seems but I thought Carillo did exceptionally well living of scraps and crap passing , plus he got a very good assist.

 

JWP was very poor completely bullied out of the game by Evans.

I’ve never seen a professional footballer look so disinterested in playing as Gabbiadini did in his 20 minutes, literally zero effort.

Redmond was the same as ever the odd good moment then plenty of not very much.Everybody else was ok but not much more.

Obviously a beautiful finish by Dusan,but we didn’t see much else.

Cédric couldn’t have tried any harder and covered a huge amount of ground but his crossing let him down.

 

In short it was the same sort of performance we’ve seen all season , wasteful and timid in possession and don’t put the opposition under enough pressure and far from solid at the back.

 

Great day,fantastic win but that’s it, I don’t see any overall improvement in performance-WBA were poor and a club in disarray and they could have easily won.

[cambsaint]

Another wobbly second half but we defended well when it came to it and McCarthy had a great game. I'd rather play away than at home at the moment.

 

Hoedt needs to get these mistakes out of his game.

 

Perhaps the nervousness and negativity of the home crowd is affecting the players.

I know I can't go for a number of reasons but we must really get behind the team and stop all this booing unless or until we go down.

I'm sure it does no good at all, and it's far too late to sack him now.

[alpine_saint]

Just watched MOTD and both pundits stated we didn’t play like a bottom 3 side. Still what do they know compared to you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Which pundits ? And seeing as I didnt see it, are you sure that they didnt mean we played like a Championship-standard side ? Difficult to tell with a literal intepretation of your sneer..

[70's Mike]

to be honest the performances mean nothing between now and the end of the season, just the results as previous relegation performances have shown.

Questions are do we have a Dodd and Benali to put their bodies on the line , and a finisher to take our odd chances?

[simo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43099215

 

Much obliged!

[shurlock]

Much obliged!

 

You'll probably want to play it on mute pal.

[doddisalegend]

to be honest the performances mean nothing between now and the end of the season, just the results as previous relegation performances have shown.

Questions are do we have a Dodd and Benali to put their bodies on the line , and a finisher to take our odd chances?

 

Pretty much. I'm beyond caring if we play nice football for the rest of the season all that matters is points if that means loads of negative defensive football (though with our defence ) or gung ho attacking football (though with our attacking players ) or something else in between I don't care as long as we win.

[simo]

You'll probably want to play it on mute pal.

 

Why would that be ?

[doddisalegend]

Why would that be ?

 

The annoying commentator...

[Give it to Ron]

The annoying commentator...

Game over when we scored 2nd goal...really

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[CylonKing]

Was at the game, thought we looked comfortable for the most part and deserved the 2 goal lead. Thought no one was at fault for their goal, McCarthy was still getting back into position when the first time shot was taken, which took EVERYONE by surprise. McCarthy MOM and did keep us in the game, but I felt that we were playing very much within ourselves and had another gear to move to. I always expect us to step up our game and we just don't seem to. I'm also annoyed with our complete lack of urgency at thrown ins. Why do Bertrand or Cedric HAVE to take them. Slows our game down so much when with a bit of speed and thought, we could be in on goal. Just no urgency at all from us. Overall though, I'm happy with the result and enjoyed the match and day in Brum.

[Badger]

Good day out, and result.

 

Thought we were worth the win despite their chances created in the 2nd half which were kept at bay by McCarthy, and Bertrand's heroic clearance off the line (didn't realise it was quite so close until watching the highlights).

 

A few observations:

Defence - CB's still worry me, despite occasional flashes of individual flair from both Hoedt and Stephens they are equally likely to drop a monumental boll0ck (eg Hoedt's misckick or going to ground at a critical time). Either would be good alongside a good bruiser of a CB, but they don't quite cut it together, and I don't think Yoshida gives the physical presence required.

Tadic - well taken goal, but noticed he wimped out of a couple of 50:50 balls in their penalty area near the end which might have given a further chance. Too easily dispossessed leading up their goal.

Up front - looked as toothless as ever, although Carrillo did look to provide some decent movement, and flick ons, but all too often no one near him.

 

MOM - McCarthy, could be criticised for positioning on their goal but don't suppose anyone in the ground expected Rondon to make that connection with it. But McCarthy made some good saves and did some of the basics of coming off his line that we know FF would not. No surprise how having a GK that does the basics provides a platform for a win.

[Badger]

Talking to a WBA supporter after the match, interesting some of their grievances, and how familiar they sounded:

 

Anonymous Chinese owner

Sacking the previous manager, who had created a toxic atmosphere during his time in charge, but might have kept them up with his brand of football however dull, and then replacing him with no one better

Poor discipline behind the scenes (as evidenced this week)

Summer signings - poor recruitment, and money wasted

Rondon - scores a goal like that but can't put it in from 6 yards when the opportunity arises.

 

Have enjoyed our visits to The Hawthorns over the last few years. Hope we both stay up but unlikely.

[Matthew Le God]

Talking to a WBA supporter after the match, interesting some of their grievances, and how familiar they sounded:

 

Anonymous Chinese owner

Sacking the previous manager, who had created a toxic atmosphere during his time in charge, but might have kept them up with his brand of football however dull, and then replacing him with no one better

Poor discipline behind the scenes (as evidenced this week)

Summer signings - poor recruitment, and money wasted

Rondon - scores a goal like that but can't put it in from 6 yards when the opportunity arises.

 

Have enjoyed our visits to The Hawthorns over the last few years. Hope we both stay up but unlikely.

 

How do those three sound familiar to Saints?

 

1) What discipline issues comparable to 4 players stealing a taxi have their been at Saints this seaosn?

2) I struggle to see how Lemina & Hoedt are "money wasted"

3) Which Saints player are you claiming matches that description?

Edited 18 February, 2018 by Matthew Le God

[AK]

Good day out, and result.

 

Thought we were worth the win despite their chances created in the 2nd half which were kept at bay by McCarthy, and Bertrand's heroic clearance off the line (didn't realise it was quite so close until watching the highlights).

 

A few observations:

Defence - CB's still worry me, despite occasional flashes of individual flair from both Hoedt and Stephens they are equally likely to drop a monumental boll0ck (eg Hoedt's misckick or going to ground at a critical time). Either would be good alongside a good bruiser of a CB, but they don't quite cut it together, and I don't think Yoshida gives the physical presence required.

Tadic - well taken goal, but noticed he wimped out of a couple of 50:50 balls in their penalty area near the end which might have given a further chance. Too easily dispossessed leading up their goal.

Up front - looked as toothless as ever, although Carrillo did look to provide some decent movement, and flick ons, but all too often no one near him.

 

MOM - McCarthy, could be criticised for positioning on their goal but don't suppose anyone in the ground expected Rondon to make that connection with it. But McCarthy made some good saves and did some of the basics of coming off his line that we know FF would not. No surprise how having a GK that does the basics provides a platform for a win.

 

Pretty much how I saw it.

[Badger]

How do those three sound familiar to Saints?

 

1) What discipline issues have their been at Saints?

2) I struggle to see how Lemina & Hoedt are "money wasted"

3) Which Saints player are you claiming matches that description?

 

Don't you think they sounded familiar to what you've read on here, or heard before then?

 

Discipline - probably not a direct comparison, but we had the VVD issue which seemed to affect morale, and several comments have been made about the popularity of a coach leading to a lack of disciplined approach. Weak management is probably the comparison.

 

Summer purchases - that's your opinion, Lemina I'd agree with you, but jurys out on Hoedt, and add Carillo to this list perhaps. This topic has probably been exhausted elsewhere, but I think most would accept recruitment (for some time not just the summer) has been poor.

 

You can't rely on our available strikers not to fail from 6 yards, but not many would score a goal like Rondon's.

[AK]

Don't you think they sounded familiar to what you've read on here, or heard before then?

 

Summer purchases - that's your opinion, Lemina I'd agree with you, but jurys out on Hoedt, and add Carillo to this list perhaps. This topic has probably been exhausted elsewhere, but I think most would accept recruitment (for some time not just the summer) has been poor.

.

 

Don’t forget Bednarek .

[Badger]

Don’t forget Bednarek .

 

I think he can be put into the 'one for the future' file, and judged over two or three seasons though. I'm quite happy for this type of speculative signing, providing its not at the expense of players ready and capable of improving the starting team, not just bloating the squad.

[AK]

I think he can be put into the 'one for the future' file, and judged over two or three seasons though. I'm quite happy for this type of speculative signing, providing its not at the expense of players ready and capable of improving the starting team, not just bloating the squad.

 

Fair enough, but he could also just be another Gardos or Forren. He was billed as another central defender for the first team on signing so hopefully he’ll do more than just play in the U23’s. He’ll be 22 in April so you think he’ll be making a premier league appearance soon.

 

In my opinion we have 4 CB’s and none of them are good enough to form a starting partnership.Maybe alongside VVD but not together.

 

Anyway sorry for derailing the thread. Back to WBA. Good win!

[Whitey Grandad]

Talking to a WBA supporter after the match, interesting some of their grievances, and how familiar they sounded:

 

Anonymous Chinese owner

Sacking the previous manager, who had created a toxic atmosphere during his time in charge, but might have kept them up with his brand of football however dull, and then replacing him with no one better

Poor discipline behind the scenes (as evidenced this week)

Summer signings - poor recruitment, and money wasted

Rondon - scores a goal like that but can't put it in from 6 yards when the opportunity arises.

 

Have enjoyed our visits to The Hawthorns over the last few years. Hope we both stay up but unlikely.

 

Or both go down?

 

Unthinkable.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I see your Forster and I raise you a Pellegrino.

 

Two of you trying to win by playing a joker?

[Badger]

Fair enough, but he could also just be another Gardos or Forren. He was billed as another central defender for the first team on signing so hopefully he’ll do more than just play in the U23’s. He’ll be 22 in April so you think he’ll be making a premier league appearance soon.

 

In my opinion we have 4 CB’s and none of them are good enough to form a starting partnership.Maybe alongside VVD but not together.

 

Anyway sorry for derailing the thread. Back to WBA. Good win!

 

Don't disagee with that either - indeed the Gardos comparison hasn't escaped me, but I'll give him another season to see if he's made any steps towards the first team before writing him off.

 

CB pairings - definitely agree.

[Greedyfly]

The chance he gifted to JRod where he completely fluffed it on the bounce, and the slice out of play aside, he and Stephens played well. Neat and tidy and some very good interceptions.

 

Add to that the absolute howler he gifted to Liverpool (and the overall shocker he had against them), the average game he had against Brom last time out etc etc. It’s just another thing on top of another howler. I am glad to hear he and Stephens generally had a good game (this is the first one in five I haven’t watched the 90 mins of in some capacity), and I thought Hoedt looked ‘ok’ when he first came here but this last month or two the concerns have been very obvious and my point was that, comparatively, both Alderweireld and VVD both looked good from jump. Hoedt hasn’t.

 

Also, for the love of God, can people stop saying ‘give them time’ (Ottawa Saint) and ‘he will do well with a run of games’ etc etc about our signings. We literally do not have that luxury and the next five games will determine whether we stay up or not and those ‘give them time’ players will be complicit in what happens either way. So, no, I won’t give them any ****ing time, because we don’t have any.

[Sheaf Saint]

How do those three sound familiar to Saints?

 

1) What discipline issues comparable to 4 players stealing a taxi have their been at Saints this seaosn?

2) I struggle to see how Lemina & Hoedt are "money wasted"

3) Which Saints player are you claiming matches that description?

 

On point 2 - Hoedt looks like a disaster waiting to happen, every game. Not a wise investment IMO.

 

On point 3 - plenty to choose from but I'll nominate Tadic. Scored a beauty on Saturday, but give him a free shot in the area from a cut-back and he'll miss every time.

[Gingeletiss]

Oh what it is to be a Saints player at this moment in time. They are slated something rotten by some of the footballing experts on here, you know the ones, those that think we are a really big team, instead of a smallish provincial team. Cripes, Messi would not be good enough for some of our wondrous 'fans'. I'd love for them to be in charge of buying, on the budget we have. Got to love the loons on here!

[Matthew Le God]

On point 2 - Hoedt looks like a disaster waiting to happen, every game. Not a wise investment IMO.

 

He makes the occasional error, but his general play is impressive. Not sure why you've written him off.

[Sheaf Saint]

He makes the occasional error, but his general play is impressive. Not sure why you've written him off.

 

In his last two games he has made two horrendous mistakes which have led directly to goalscoring opportunities for the opposition. He got away with it on Saturday because it was J-Rod, and not Salah this time.

 

He can look like the most composed and confident player ever seen, but that all goes out the window if he is going to continue to gift goals to the opposition because of schoolboy errors.

[Matthew Le God]

In his last two games he has made two horrendous mistakes which have led directly to goalscoring opportunities for the opposition. He got away with it on Saturday because it was J-Rod, and not Salah this time.

 

He can look like the most composed and confident player ever seen, but that all goes out the window if he is going to continue to gift goals to the opposition because of schoolboy errors.

 

They were two bad errors, but that doesn't make him a bad player or bad signing. He has a lot of good attributes and it is daft to write a player off on the basis of a few mistakes and football clubs luckily look at the bigger picture of his skill-set rather than the approach of "he ****ed up kicking the ball a couple of times, lets sell him".

Edited 19 February, 2018 by Matthew Le God

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Oh what it is to be a Saints player at this moment in time. They are slated something rotten by some of the footballing experts on here, you know the ones, those that think we are a really big team, instead of a smallish provincial team. Cripes, Messi would not be good enough for some of our wondrous 'fans'. I'd love for them to be in charge of buying, on the budget we have. Got to love the loons on here!

 

I agree, I pay an arm and a leg to turn up every game, enthralled watching us spiral towards and into the relegation places, watching superb, exciting attacking football, the highlights being absolutely thrashing the bottom team. It is such a treat, what with us being a small provincial team and all. A backwoods side playing backwards. Why should I hope for anything more.

[Sheaf Saint]

They were two bad errors, but that doesn't make him a bad player or bad signing. He has a lot of good attributes and it is daft to write a player off on the basis of a few mistakes and football clubs luckily look at the bigger picture of his skill-set rather than reactionary approach of "he ****ed up kicking the ball a couple of times, lets sell him".

 

I'm not writing him off. I remember how Yoshida always had a howler in him, which he eventually managed to eliminate from his game. Hoedt may well turn into a top player if he can do the same. But what we needed in the summer when we signed him was a proven quality CB to replace Fonte/VVD, not somebody who might come good but will cost us a fair few points before he does. That's why I don't believe he was a great investment.

[Graffito]

They were two bad errors, but that doesn't make him a bad player or bad signing. He has a lot of good attributes and it is daft to write a player off on the basis of a few mistakes and football clubs luckily look at the bigger picture of his skill-set rather than reactionary approach of "he ****ed up kicking the ball a couple of times, lets sell him".

 

In the interests of pedantry, may I suggest you look up the word “reactionary”.

[Pass the Dutchie]

[DT]

 

watching that again there is a certain keeper in the club who would have been rooted to the spot from the Hoedt deflection. McCarthy has to be one of the only real bright spots. Shame they didn't realise it a couple of months earlier.

[OttawaSaint]

 

Also, for the love of God, can people stop saying ‘give them time’ (Ottawa Saint) and ‘he will do well with a run of games’ etc etc about our signings. We literally do not have that luxury and the next five games will determine whether we stay up or not and those ‘give them time’ players will be complicit in what happens either way. So, no, I won’t give them any ****ing time, because we don’t have any.

 

So rather than leaving Hoedt and Stephens be you suggest what? Yoshi is injured so Bednerek? Gardos?

 

Lemina, Boufal, Hoj and Carillo will be pivotal in our survival effort. Who do you suggest replaces those?

 

Or so you just want to pick on every little mistake a player makes and whine and complain?

 

These are the players we have, we can't get any more until the summer, so get behind them!

[lordswoodsaints]

Anybody who says ‘we march on’ is a complete ****wit IMO

[Verbal]

Anybody who says ‘we march on’ is a complete ****wit IMO

 

We stroll on?

[Red]

We stroll on?

 

#we waddle along

[Saint IQ]

#WeLimpOn

[simo]

#Weputwhatwewantsowindyourneckin

[Jonnyboy]

We go marching in, not on.

[Greedyfly]

So rather than leaving Hoedt and Stephens be you suggest what? Yoshi is injured so Bednerek? Gardos?

 

Lemina, Boufal, Hoj and Carillo will be pivotal in our survival effort. Who do you suggest replaces those?

 

Or so you just want to pick on every little mistake a player makes and whine and complain?

 

These are the players we have, we can't get any more until the summer, so get behind them!

 

 

Your post doesn't actually address my point though does it. I said saying 'give them time' as in give them time to get used to our surroundings and start playing well is a luxury that went out of the window in the games at home to Swansea, Burnley, Watford, not the **** end of the season when we are in the bottom 3. Hoedt has had time and frankly regressed which was essentially what started this in the first place. However, you are quite right, we are stuck with the scrapings of the barrel now that is the likes of Carrillo (to answer your question a half fit Austin is better and Long, as **** as he is too, has a better goal rate) and the liability that Hoedt has suddenly become so I hope, more than expect, them to get us out of this mess.

[CylonKing]

Forgot to mention, when chanting 'Oh, Alex McCarthy', it does sound a little like 'Oh, Alex the Donkey'. :-)

[lordswoodsaints]

#Weputwhatwewantsowindyourneckin

 

Sorry can’t do that, without people like me telling people like you that you’re a complete **** then how the hell will you ever learn?

Cliche sayings made up by a bunch of marketing ****wits are only suitable for idiots who repeat them over and over and over to justify saints F.C. inadequacies on and off the pitch.

[simo]

Sorry can’t do that, without people like me telling people like you that you’re a complete **** then how the hell will you ever learn?

Cliche sayings made up by a bunch of marketing ****wits are only suitable for idiots who repeat them over and over and over to justify saints F.C. inadequacies on and off the pitch.

 

You see that seems the be the problem these days "People like me" who feel that thru the use of forums and social media they can be the loud ,opinionated person their small ball bag wouldn't allow them to be in real life ! Like I said we will put what WE want not what you or some marketing ****wit tell us to! Hope that helps ?

[The Cat]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/feb/20/david-squires-on-west-brom-mini-break-in-barcelona