Would Puel still have been sacked if we'd won the Cup?

[Bad Wolf]

Just out of interest. Obviously we'll never know but I reckon we'd have still booted him. Would you have changed your stance on him?

[Heisenberg]

Let it go

[CB Fry]

Blimey.

 

No we we would have not sacked a cup winning manager who just led us into a third consecutive European campaign. Would have changed the entire shape of the season and the summer. So no.

 

Pretty academic now though.

[Give it to Ron]

He shouldn't have been appointed in the first place. Better candidates rejected.

His Europa campaign was a joke. Hapoel game was a disgrace we let Marvin Hagler run midfield never got near him.

Changing 3 of the back for in our only winnable game at Christmas v WBA.

Away fine at home rubbish.

 

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[Lighthouse]

Depends, had we carried on playing as we did after losing the cup final he might well have been sacked. People were on about Conte being sacked after the Watford game, which would have made him the third consecutive manager to lose his job after winning the league.

 

If they were making the decision based on what was best for the club then probably, as we were on a downward trajectory under Puel. If the club wanted to save face by not sacking a cup winning manager, they might have kept him.

[CB Fry]

He shouldn't have been appointed in the first place. Better candidates rejected.

His Europa campaign was a joke. Hapoel game was a disgrace we let Marvin Hagler run midfield never got near him.

Changing 3 of the back for in our only winnable game at Christmas v WBA.

Away fine at home rubbish.

 

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Except in this scenario he won the League Cup, which would have made him one of greatest managers of our history.

[austsaint]

He shouldn't have been appointed in the first place. Better candidates rejected.

His Europa campaign was a joke. Hapoel game was a disgrace we let Marvin Hagler run midfield never got near him.

Changing 3 of the back for in our only winnable game at Christmas v WBA.

Away fine at home rubbish.

 

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All true - yet if Gabbiadini's perfectly valid goal had been awarded and Romeu's header had been an inch lower we're holding the Cup aloft! Funny old game.

[Gingeletiss]

My understanding is, that he was asked to change the way he set the team out, and he refused, then was sacked. I stand to be corrected.

[CB Fry]

Depends, had we carried on playing as we did after losing the cup final he might well have been sacked. People were on about Conte being sacked after the Watford game, which would have made him the third consecutive manager to lose his job after winning the league.

 

If they were making the decision based on what was best for the club then probably, as we were on a downward trajectory under Puel. If the club wanted to save face by not sacking a cup winning manager, they might have kept him.

 

If we'd have won the cup and qualified for Europe for the third season in a row we wouldn't have been on a downward trajectory. We would have had a victory parade around the city. That's not a downward trajectory.

 

And Conte wasn't sacked within days of the victory celebration, neither was Ranieri and neither was Mourinho.

Edited 17 February, 2018 by CB Fry

[sadoldgit]

He shouldn't have been appointed in the first place. Better candidates rejected.

His Europa campaign was a joke. Hapoel game was a disgrace we let Marvin Hagler run midfield never got near him.

Changing 3 of the back for in our only winnable game at Christmas v WBA.

Away fine at home rubbish.

 

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Just out of interest, who were the better candidates that were rejected?

[CB Fry]

Just out of interest, who were the better candidates that were rejected?

Rudi Garcia for one.

[Ultimatt]

Let it go

Says the guy still wishing Cortese was here

 

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[Lighthouse]

If we'd have won the cup and qualified for Europe for the third season in a row we wouldn't have been on a downward trajectory. We would have had a victory parade around the city. That's not a downward trajectory.

 

And Conte wasn't sacked within days of the victory celebration, neither was Ranieri and neither was Mourinho.

 

Days? The cup final was in February, Puel was sacked in June. I guess 120-something days still counts as days.

 

Like I said, it would depend on how we played after the final. If he had carried on playing for 0-0s at home to crap teams, would he still have been the best man for the job?

[CB Fry]

Days? The cup final was in February, Puel was sacked in June. I guess 120-something days still counts as days.

 

Like I said, it would depend on how we played after the final. If he had carried on playing for 0-0s at home to crap teams, would he still have been the best man for the job?

Did Ranieri and Mourinho get sacked in the summer immediately after their successful seasons? No and no. Conte still remains unsacked. You brought them up as comparables not me.

 

A cup winning Puel taking us into Europe would not have been sacked, we agonised enough over sacking him anyway. We wouldn't be agonising, we'd be flogging commemorative DVDs and creating comedy European Tour youtubes. Les Reed and Krugeur would be basking in the glory of #wemarchon. The narrative would not be about failure.

[Cabrone]

Just out of interest. Obviously we'll never know but I reckon we'd have still booted him. Would you have changed your stance on him?

 

Wasn't it the players who were the main reason he got the boot? I don't think they would have been any different after so many dull goalless games.

 

My stance would have been the same albeit grateful that we got the cup. A dull manager is a dull manager though.

[Lighthouse]

Did Ranieri and Mourinho get sacked in the summer immediately after their successful seasons? No and no. Conte still remains unsacked. You brought them up as comparables not me.

 

A cup winning Puel taking us into Europe would not have been sacked, we agonised enough over sacking him anyway. We wouldn't be agonising, we'd be flogging commemorative DVDs and creating comedy European Tour youtubes. Les Reed and Krugeur would be basking in the glory of #wemarchon. The narrative would not be about failure.

 

Mourinho was sacked in December, 4 months into the season. Ranieri was sacked 6 months into the season after arguably the greatest upset in the history of English football. Puel was sacked 4 months after the Cup final. The point is fairly obvious; if results start to dip significantly, even after winning a trophy, Premier League chairmen are not adverse to sacking the manager.

 

Being in Europe probably wouldn't change anything either, not after the tame and cowardly attempt we made at it last time.

[ericb]

I think he probably would've been, but it would've been much harder for the club to do it and they'd have had to have got it right with the next appointment to justify doing it (though with European football it's quite possible we'd have got our first choice in Tuchel).

 

At the end of the day, and as many of us keep repeating, it was the fact that he lost the dressing room (and lost it badly) that lost him his job. Not the fans, not the style of play, not anything else. A large section of the players were in open revolt, they weren't listening to him and were mocking him openly in the dressing room. That made his position untenable and he had to leave.

 

All the rest of the cr*p people post is just standard Saints Web rubbish based in no foundation at all. In particular the stuff about the fans is utter b*llocks, if us booing or complaining about a manager made the slightest difference then Pellegrino wouldn't be here still.

 

The only (and it's slight) thing that made a difference from fans was the drop off in the season ticket renewals, that scared the club as it was finances. Hence why with Pellegrino i keep saying if you want to force them to make a change vote with your wallet.

[Saint-Fred]

As we are doing random, hypothetical stuff...do you reckon people would be calling for MP's head ifwe were 16 points clear at the top of the table?

[CB Fry]

Mourinho was sacked in December, 4 months into the season. Ranieri was sacked 6 months into the season after arguably the greatest upset in the history of English football. Puel was sacked 4 months after the Cup final. The point is fairly obvious; if results start to dip significantly, even after winning a trophy, Premier League chairmen are not adverse to sacking the manager.

 

Being in Europe probably wouldn't change anything either, not after the tame and cowardly attempt we made at it last time.

 

Except SFC are adverse to sacking managers because we are seeing it happen now, with our current manager and the exact same leadership team.

 

Or are you saying results haven't "dipped significantly" this season, because I think they have. I think that point is fairly obvious.

 

And they dithered plenty when they did sack him. The fact that he would have delivered one of his key objectives - European football, for a pretty unheard of third straight season - would I think easily have swung it in his favour.

Edited 17 February, 2018 by CB Fry

[Lighthouse]

Except SFC are adverse to sacking managers because we are seeing it happen now, with our current manager and the exact same leadership team.

 

And they dithered plenty when they did sack him. The fact that he would have delivered one of his key objectives - European football, for a pretty unheard of third straight season - would I think easily have swung it in his favour.

 

Fact is that they did sack him, based on an entire season's performance. His job SHOULDN'T hinge on a badly marked Zlatan header or a wrongly given offside.

 

If we'd kept him it would be because the board were too embarrassed to sack a manager who had won a cup and not because they thought he was the right man for this season.

[CB Fry]

Fact is that they did sack him, based on an entire season's performance. His job SHOULDN'T hinge on a badly marked Zlatan header or a wrongly given offside.

 

If we'd kept him it would be because the board were too embarrassed to sack a manager who had won a cup and not because they thought he was the right man for this season.

 

You've not noticed the same leadership team are currently too embarrassed to sack a manager for doing significantly worse than Puel? That is actually happening, in real life, right now? That's my point.

 

The question is would they have done it, not should they. The fact that Puel would have successfully delivered a key objective, combined with the proven behaviours shown by our managerial team this year suggest that on the balance of probabilities that they wouldn't have.

 

You're not so great with the hypothetical questions, are you love?

[Jonnyboy]

He would rightly have been given at least the first half of this season.

[Lighthouse]

You've not noticed the same leadership team are currently too embarrassed to sack a manager for doing significantly worse than Puel? That is actually happening, in real life, right now? That's my point.

 

The question is would they have done it, not should they. The fact that Puel would have successfully delivered a key objective, combined with the proven behaviours shown by our managerial team this year suggest that on the balance of probabilities that they wouldn't have.

 

You're not so great with the hypothetical questions, are you love?

 

Actually, love, I answered the hypothetical question ages ago.

 

Depends, had we carried on playing as we did after losing the cup final he might well have been sacked.

 

There are three key differences between MoPe now and Puel in summer.

1) It was summer, we had 3 months to find a replacement and allow him to coach his squad before actually playing football.

2) Having already sacked one manager 6 months ago, the board don't want to look incompetent and trigger happy by sacking another.

3) There may not be any preferred targets available at the moment. It's all well and good the fans talking about Koeman and Silva, if the board don't want them there's no point sacking MoPe.

 

Anyway, not for the first time you seem far more interested in being obtuse and patronising, so I'll leave it here. Have a nice weekend love.

[CB Fry]

Actually, love, I answered the hypothetical question ages ago.

 

 

 

There are three key differences between MoPe now and Puel in summer.

1) It was summer, we had 3 months to find a replacement and allow him to coach his squad before actually playing football.

2) Having already sacked one manager 6 months ago, the board don't want to look incompetent and trigger happy by sacking another.

3) There may not be any preferred targets available at the moment. It's all well and good the fans talking about Koeman and Silva, if the board don't want them there's no point sacking MoPe.

 

Anyway, not for the first time you seem far more interested in being obtuse and patronising, so I'll leave it here. Have a nice weekend love.

Strange you used the mid-season sacking of Ranieri and Mourinho and the potential mid season sacking of Conte to make a point earlier. Now you've gone off mid-season sackings.

 

Right-o.

[Maggie May]

Just out of interest. Obviously we'll never know but I reckon we'd have still booted him. Would you have changed your stance on him?

 

Let it go man! Just cause Puel was nice to your mum at St Mary's once doesn't make him worth caring about now.

[Bad Wolf]

Let it go man! Just cause Puel was nice to your mum at St Mary's once doesn't make him worth caring about now.

 

[OldNick]

you have to accept fans on message boards wont except they were wrong.

yes they didn’t want MP they wanted Pep or a series of other managers who would never accept the working conditions we give.

Puel should have kept his job.

i haven’t seen the bits where he lost the dressing room, I don’t believe it, anyway.

[Batman]

you have to accept fans on message boards wont except they were wrong.

yes they didn’t want MP they wanted Pep or a series of other managers who would never accept the working conditions we give.

Puel should have kept his job.

i haven’t seen the bits where he lost the dressing room, I don’t believe it, anyway.

can you show us where saints fans collectively wanted pep?

 

ta

[ericb]

you have to accept fans on message boards wont except they were wrong.

yes they didn’t want MP they wanted Pep or a series of other managers who would never accept the working conditions we give.

Puel should have kept his job.

i haven’t seen the bits where he lost the dressing room, I don’t believe it, anyway.

 

So you don't know about it and you'll choose to disbelieve it anyway?? Jesus some of our fans our stupid.

[Dark Munster]

I think he probably would've been, but it would've been much harder for the club to do it and they'd have had to have got it right with the next appointment to justify doing it (though with European football it's quite possible we'd have got our first choice in Tuchel).

 

At the end of the day, and as many of us keep repeating, it was the fact that he lost the dressing room (and lost it badly) that lost him his job. Not the fans, not the style of play, not anything else. A large section of the players were in open revolt, they weren't listening to him and were mocking him openly in the dressing room. That made his position untenable and he had to leave.

 

All the rest of the cr*p people post is just standard Saints Web rubbish based in no foundation at all. In particular the stuff about the fans is utter b*llocks, if us booing or complaining about a manager made the slightest difference then Pellegrino wouldn't be here still.

 

The only (and it's slight) thing that made a difference from fans was the drop off in the season ticket renewals, that scared the club as it was finances. Hence why with Pellegrino i keep saying if you want to force them to make a change vote with your wallet.

I wish this paragraph could be made a sticky. The players are mainly to blame for his sacking. Just like they were when Luggy was unfairly booted out, and that sacking and his disastrous replacement is scarily similar to what's happening now.

 

And yes, if we had (justifiably) beaten Utd I doubt the players would've been so revolting, and Puel would still be with us. Of course he'd still have to contend with Reed's incompetence in the transfer market (particularly regarding strikers), so would probably need to continue to grind out "boring" results to compensate for strikers that can't score (or in Austin's case is a sick note), much to the ire of a certain segment of the fans.

[OldNick]

So you don't know about it and you'll choose to disbelieve it anyway?? Jesus some of our fans our stupid.

Show us where he lost the dressing room. I saw no evidence or have heard nothing except from the ,my mate down the pub told me,

there are always players who are unhappy when they are not picked.

Please tell us from a reliable source about the dressing room.

[Batman]

Show us where he lost the dressing room. I saw no evidence or have heard nothing except from the ,my mate down the pub told me,

there are always players who are unhappy when they are not picked.

Please tell us from a reliable source about the dressing room.

and, give us examples of fans wanting pep last summer

 

cheers

[OldNick]

can you show us where saints fans collectively wanted pep?

 

ta

the fans wanted managers well above our station, who would never work under Reed. My mates down the pub wanted Pep but I wanted Mourinho,

[Batman]

the fans wanted managers well above our station, who would never work under Reed. My mates down the pub wanted Pep but I wanted Mourinho,

oh.

[CB Fry]

the fans wanted managers well above our station, who would never work under Reed. My mates down the pub wanted Pep but I wanted Mourinho,

 

Among all the Saints fan in my friends and family, plus all the comments from every single contributor on this forum, and not one of them, not a single one mentioned wanting Pep or Mourinho to come, because obviously they wouldn't have done and they're not absolute fu cking idiots.

 

Your mates down the pub sound very, very special.

[OldNick]

Among all the Saints fan in my friends and family, plus all the comments from every single contributor on this forum, and not one of them, not a single one mentioned wanting Pep or Mourinho to come, because obviously they wouldn't have done and they're not absolute fu cking idiots.

 

Your mates down the pub sound very, very special.

theyre fine idiots if they didn’t want them to come. If a manager is unobtainable whoever he is it doesn’t matter if you want them. Names given on here mostly were to managers who would not want to work under the constraints of our business plan. We are only ever going to get managers who are 2or 3 grades down, not managers who already have really done anything.Puel was the closest

[Batman]

I think the pep point is a thing of fiction!

[OldNick]

I think the pep point is a thing of fiction!

Really

[CB Fry]

theyre fine idiots if they didn’t want them to come. If a manager is unobtainable whoever he is it doesn’t matter if you want them. Names given on here mostly were to managers who would not want to work under the constraints of our business plan. We are only ever going to get managers who are 2or 3 grades down, not managers who already have really done anything.Puel was the closest

You'll have remind me who these unattainable suggestions were?

 

Marco Silva, recently relegated with Hull, barely seems like some pipe-dream and he was probably the top pick of this forum.

 

What point are you actually making?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Show us where he lost the dressing room. I saw no evidence or have heard nothing except from the ,my mate down the pub told me,

there are always players who are unhappy when they are not picked.

Please tell us from a reliable source about the dressing room.

 

I'd like to know how he lost the dressing room. Was it the sessions he put on, was it his man management skills, did the players not think he was good enough for them. Was it that Fonte and other big figures couldn't accept falling down the pecking order, or playing up after not getting a move. "Losing the dressing room" is a catch all phrase thrown around regularly at various clubs. Personally I'd like to speak to the experienced pro's, guys like Davo or OR, straight professionals to find out the truth. One things for sure, if the players were moaning about him affecting their performances they look pretty stupid now. They had a chance to show everyone how much he held them back and how much he affected morale, they're now in the bottom 3

 

 

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[GGalpin]

I'd like to know how he lost the dressing room. Was it the sessions he put on, was it his man management skills, did the players not think he was good enough for them. Was it that Fonte and other big figures couldn't accept falling down the pecking order, or playing up after not getting a move. "Losing the dressing room" is a catch all phrase thrown around regularly at various clubs. Personally I'd like to speak to the experienced pro's, guys like Davo or OR, straight professionals to find out the truth. One things for sure, if the players were moaning about him affecting their performances they look pretty stupid now. They had a chance to show everyone how much he held them back and how much he affected morale, they're now in the bottom 3

 

 

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I know there was supposed to have been a problem with communication and getting the point across, which wouldn't be a shock given the press conferences. Whether that was the only issue or anything further I'm not sure.

[Jonnyboy]

I know there was supposed to have been a problem with communication and getting the point across, which wouldn't be a shock given the press conferences. Whether that was the only issue or anything further I'm not sure.

 

What about Pochettino and his translator?

[Lets B Avenue]

What about Pochettino and his translator?

 

He was only wheeled out for the media.

[The9]

Just out of interest. Obviously we'll never know but I reckon we'd have still booted him. Would you have changed your stance on him?

 

No, because all of the dullard meatheads booing him would have been placated by the cup win.

[Fan The Flames]

All true - yet if Gabbiadini's perfectly valid goal had been awarded and Romeu's header had been an inch lower we're holding the Cup aloft! Funny old game.

 

And a had a Yoshida header in the dying minutes of the last game gone in we would have got through the group stages. Also VVD missed at least three easy chances in the group stages, had one of them gone in we would have got through. Fine lines.

[SKD]

Show us where he lost the dressing room. I saw no evidence or have heard nothing except from the ,my mate down the pub told me,

there are always players who are unhappy when they are not picked.

Please tell us from a reliable source about the dressing room.

 

Clearly there is no evidence of this. The club is a PR machine and would never let something like that out in the press.

 

But trust me / Eric, it’s true. People can say we should have sold the olayers / trouble makers, but it is very very difficult to replace a large % of the dressing room.

 

Personal opinion, had we sold fonte in the summer I don’t think it would have been as bad as it got...

[Lighthouse]

And a had a Yoshida header in the dying minutes of the last game gone in we would have got through the group stages. Also VVD missed at least three easy chances in the group stages, had one of them gone in we would have got through. Fine lines.

 

Fact is we failed to score in all three away games and, when it mattered at least, Be'er Sheva at home. After the first game against Sparta, Virgil was the only player who scored for us in the other 5 games. That's pretty poor, however many ifs and buts you dress it up with.

[Fan The Flames]

Fact is we failed to score in all three away games and, when it mattered at least, Be'er Sheva at home. After the first game against Sparta, Virgil was the only player who scored for us in the other 5 games. That's pretty poor, however many ifs and buts you dress it up with.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you just pointing out the line between success and failure is small. But also that some of the failure is down to the players. The board obviously agreed if the rumours are to be believed that he was sacked for other reasons.

[Whitey Grandad]

And a had a Yoshida header in the dying minutes of the last game gone in we would have got through the group stages. Also VVD missed at least three easy chances in the group stages, had one of them gone in we would have got through. Fine lines.

 

Those are very thin straws that you’re clutching at.

[Give it to Ron]

N/t cant be bothered

 

 

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