Banning old gits from voting

[benjii]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jeremy-paxman-says-over-65s-should-not-be-allowed-vote-blames-them-uk-housing-crisis-1660033

 

Paxman is right in some respects.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take people's votes away but I think there should be some sort of weighting against older votes. Perhaps votes of people aged 18 - 35 should count three times, people 35 -70 two votes and those over 70 one vote.

 

Something like that.

[sotonist]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jeremy-paxman-says-over-65s-should-not-be-allowed-vote-blames-them-uk-housing-crisis-1660033

 

Paxman is right in some respects.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take people's votes away but I think there should be some sort of weighting against older votes. Perhaps votes of people aged 18 - 35 should count three times, people 35 -70 two votes and those over 70 one vote.

 

Something like that.

 

this will go down well with the people paying for it all.

[colehillsaint]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jeremy-paxman-says-over-65s-should-not-be-allowed-vote-blames-them-uk-housing-crisis-1660033

 

Paxman is right in some respects.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take people's votes away but I think there should be some sort of weighting against older votes. Perhaps votes of people aged 18 - 35 should count three times, people 35 -70 two votes and those over 70 one vote.

 

Something like that.

 

He’s spot on.

[scotty]

To be fair, at least he stopped short of advocating euthanasia.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What about those ****s with terminal illnesses, if we banned them from voting we could have them put down & save money on NHS. They're just clogging up the housing market by fighting for their lives, somebody healthy could live in their house.

 

Whilst stopping people voting is totally disproportionate , he is onto something. However, it's something our feeble minded yellow bellied politicians and snowflakes will never address. Middle class and old people's welfare. Winter fuel allowance sticks out a mile, but look at the fuss lefties made when Wayne Rooney and Paul McCartney had their child benefit withdrawn. Look at tuition fees, only the well off will pay them back, so by abolishing them, you're helping the wealthy. My old man retired at 55, gets a free TV licence, winter fuel allowance and because of the uproar about "dementia tax" my inheritance is pretty safe. Meanwhile others are having to use food banks. It's not him voting to keep these perks, that's keeping them it's you snowflakes whinging every single time somebody suggests doing something about it. If the Tories go into the next election committed to scraping pensioner benefits for the richest pensioners, Corbyn and his cronies aren't gonna say "good idea, lets channel the money into people who really need it" are they? They're going to be telling stories of pensioners freezing to death.

The old age pension is basically a Ponzi scheme, that needs serious reform, but nobody will address that.

 

 

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Edited 10 February, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[Suomi Saint]

I sincerely hope that the above comments are tongue in cheek? Just wait until you get old, chaps. The UK's problems are not being caused by old people, but stem directly from stagnation in wages, which is a direct result of the mass immigration of cheap labour. Low wages do not help to stimulate the economy (and create well paid jobs), and, furthermore, do not help increase fiscal revenues. Younger people are suffering more because they cannot afford housing, which has become prohibitively expensive due to demand exceeding supply. The NHS is on its knees because it has far too many customers caused by the large increase in population in the last 10 years. None of this has anything to do with the old folks who have paid handsomely into the system all their working lives. With respect to voting, older people are not as daft as you think, they have the benefit of long experience and have seen life. Quite honestly, I find the above comments to be very distasteful.

[scotty]

I sincerely hope that the above comments are tongue in cheek? Just wait until you get old, chaps. The UK's problems are not being caused by old people, but stem directly from stagnation in wages, which is a direct result of the mass immigration of cheap labour. Low wages do not help to stimulate the economy (and create well paid jobs), and, furthermore, do not help increase fiscal revenues. Younger people are suffering more because they cannot afford housing, which has become prohibitively expensive due to demand exceeding supply. The NHS is on its knees because it has far too many customers caused by the large increase in population in the last 10 years. None of this has anything to do with the old folks who have paid handsomely into the system all their working lives. With respect to voting, older people are not as daft as you think, they have the benefit of long experience and have seen life. Quite honestly, I find the above comments to be very distasteful.

If you found that distasteful, I can't wait to see how you react when your assertion that it's all down to these f*cking immigrants hits the fan.

[CB Fry]

I sincerely hope that the above comments are tongue in cheek? Just wait until you get old, chaps. The UK's problems are not being caused by old people, but stem directly from stagnation in wages, which is a direct result of the mass immigration of cheap labour. Low wages do not help to stimulate the economy (and create well paid jobs), and, furthermore, do not help increase fiscal revenues. Younger people are suffering more because they cannot afford housing, which has become prohibitively expensive due to demand exceeding supply. The NHS is on its knees because it has far too many customers caused by the large increase in population in the last 10 years. None of this has anything to do with the old folks who have paid handsomely into the system all their working lives. With respect to voting, older people are not as daft as you think, they have the benefit of long experience and have seen life. Quite honestly, I find the above comments to be very distasteful.

I find the above comments utterly fu cking clueless.

 

I must have missed that mass immigration of people aged 60+ putting all the strain on the NHS. Pretty certain they were here already.

 

Immigration of working age people to, you, know, work isn't the thing putting strain on public services. Only if you believe sh ite in the Daily Mail.

 

Ditto wage stagnation. It's not immigration that has created an economy of high employment in sh it jobs. But immigration hasn't stopped the "high employment" part, funny that. It's almost like they haven't taken anyone's job.

 

But I feel I've already wasted my time typing this out because it's not the story you want to hear and you know, send-em-all-back, its a swarm, it's breaking point, let's take back control and so on and so on.

 

Personally I am looking forward to the day our outward looking forward thinking open for business standing alone Great Britain does a ground breaking trade deal with India, my understanding is we'll wrap that up no bother around Easter next year. And then we'll see another influx of lots more wonderful extra brown people into the country to live and work and do that funny dancing, definitely be a different colour skin and everything. Because you will be supportive of that, won't you?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I sincerely hope that the above comments are tongue in cheek? Just wait until you get old, chaps. The UK's problems are not being caused by old people, but stem directly from stagnation in wages, which is a direct result of the mass immigration of cheap labour. Low wages do not help to stimulate the economy (and create well paid jobs), and, furthermore, do not help increase fiscal revenues. Younger people are suffering more because they cannot afford housing, which has become prohibitively expensive due to demand exceeding supply. The NHS is on its knees because it has far too many customers caused by the large increase in population in the last 10 years. None of this has anything to do with the old folks who have paid handsomely into the system all their working lives. With respect to voting, older people are not as daft as you think, they have the benefit of long experience and have seen life. Quite honestly, I find the above comments to be very distasteful.

 

Spoken like a true Daily Fail reader.

 

You want to see wage contraction in the economy, you wait until Brexit and 20% of our jobs go running out the door. Oh, and tax revenues go down so we have to cut back on NHS services.

 

All this because people in this country are scared of Johnny Foreigner. Bravo.

[shurlock]

I sincerely hope that the above comments are tongue in cheek? Just wait until you get old, chaps. The UK's problems are not being caused by old people, but stem directly from stagnation in wages, which is a direct result of the mass immigration of cheap labour. Low wages do not help to stimulate the economy (and create well paid jobs), and, furthermore, do not help increase fiscal revenues. Younger people are suffering more because they cannot afford housing, which has become prohibitively expensive due to demand exceeding supply. The NHS is on its knees because it has far too many customers caused by the large increase in population in the last 10 years. None of this has anything to do with the old folks who have paid handsomely into the system all their working lives. With respect to voting, older people are not as daft as you think, they have the benefit of long experience and have seen life. Quite honestly, I find the above comments to be very distasteful.

 

You do realise older people disproportionately use the NHS? In the UK, average healthcare spending for 65+ and 85+ is 2 and 3.6 times national average respectively.

 

Not going to revisit the immigration-wages debate -suffice to say the impact is infinitesimally small and that evidence is recognised as legit by many immigration-railing Brexiteers. Its impact is trivial compared to other trends: technological and industrial change, the introduction of the minimum wage, the decline in trade union power etc.

 

As for voting patterns and priorities, the evidence suggests that older voters would rather protect their entitlements (pensions etc) than support education and other productive investments. That might be completely rational: whether it's good for the country as a whole is another matter.

 

Anyway sounds like it won't be long before you're worm food pal.

Edited 10 February, 2018 by shurlock

[colehillsaint]

I sincerely hope that the above comments are tongue in cheek? Just wait until you get old, chaps. The UK's problems are not being caused by old people, but stem directly from stagnation in wages, which is a direct result of the mass immigration of cheap labour. Low wages do not help to stimulate the economy (and create well paid jobs), and, furthermore, do not help increase fiscal revenues. Younger people are suffering more because they cannot afford housing, which has become prohibitively expensive due to demand exceeding supply. The NHS is on its knees because it has far too many customers caused by the large increase in population in the last 10 years. None of this has anything to do with the old folks who have paid handsomely into the system all their working lives. With respect to voting, older people are not as daft as you think, they have the benefit of long experience and have seen life. Quite honestly, I find the above comments to be very distasteful.

 

Immigration! Honestly, **** off.

 

I took my nipper down to Poole A&E three weeks ago for stitches in his hand, and it’s the same as every other visit in the last 10 years. Lots of fat white people barely motivated to get dressed before going out, being attended to by a staff of immigrants, prepared to do unpleasant work. The idea that immigration is stressing rather than propping up our health system is contrary to everything I can see, when I go anywhere near a hospital.

 

I wouldn’t deny the vote to anyone. It would just be wrong, but, as a generation, the baby boomers have become winey, entitled, smug, self serving and ungrateful for the opportunities they have had.

Edited 10 February, 2018 by colehillsaint

[scotty]

Immigration! Honestly, **** off.

 

I took my nipper down to Poole A&E three weeks ago for stitches in his hand, and it’s the same as every other visit in the last 10 years. Lots of fat white people barely motivated to get dressed before going out, being attended to by a staff of immigrants, prepared to do unpleasant work. The idea that immigration is stressing rather than propping up our health system is contrary to everything I can see, when I go anywhere near a hospital.

 

I wouldn’t deny the vote to anyone. It would just be wrong, but, as a generation, the baby boomers have become winey, entitled, smug, self serving and ungrateful for the opportunities they have had.

 

"Winey".

 

Possibly the most appropriate typo ever made

[badgerx16]

How magnanimous of a multi-millionaire to not take the state pension.

If you stop over 65s voting, do you also stop them standing for election ?

[colehillsaint]

"Winey".

 

Possibly the most appropriate typo ever made

 

[emoji23][emoji23]

[Whitey Grandad]

If any of this is serious then I am deeply sickened by the mentality of some of you. Let’s all hope that none of you get old after a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes.

 

Snivelling little brats.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Immigration! Honestly, **** off.

 

I took my nipper down to Poole A&E three weeks ago for stitches in his hand, and it’s the same as every other visit in the last 10 years. Lots of fat white people barely motivated to get dressed before going out, being attended to by a staff of immigrants, prepared to do unpleasant work. The idea that immigration is stressing rather than propping up our health system is contrary to everything I can see, when I go anywhere near a hospital.

 

I wouldn’t deny the vote to anyone. It would just be wrong, but, as a generation, the baby boomers have become winey, entitled, smug, self serving and ungrateful for the opportunities they have had.

 

My Mrs actually works in Poole hospital, oh and she isn’t an immigrant. If you think it’s bad now, wait till it merges with Bournemouth hospital and cross your fingers the traffic from colehills not too bad if you need an ambulance. The issue with that A& E is people are there who should be going to the doctors, but can’t get an appointment. Whether people like it or not population growth has contributed to that, added to labours ridiculous GP contracts. It’s only going to get worse, my son lives in Hamworthy, look how that’s grown the past 10 years. Soon they’re building on that side of the quay, on the old power station site, Carter’s quay and on the Sydenhams site. Extra doctors surgeries planned to deal with all those extra people, none. I’m not saying it’s all immigrants, as I don’t see too many in Poole (including my Mrs work mates at the hospital), but to deny population growth without extra capacity doesn’t affect health provision is just putting your head in the sand.

 

 

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Edited 10 February, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[colehillsaint]

If any of this is serious then I am deeply sickened by the mentality of some of you. Let’s all hope that none of you get old after a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes.

 

Snivelling little brats.

 

If you want to be serious, did you benefit from;

 

- Free further and higher education?

- Cheap houses and a steady rise in their value?

- Plentiful “real” jobs?

- A large publicly owned housing stock, that you could buy at a cut down rate if you were a tenant?

- Early retirement from nearly all public sector jobs, with pay offs?

- Final salary pension schemes, where, particularly in the public sector, a promotion got thrown in for the last year just to jack up the payout?

- Low taxation, subsidised by successive governments, of both colours, that sold off anything they could lay their hands on during the 70’s/80’s, and then borrowed a load more for our kids to pay off through the scams that are PFI and student loans?

- The “buy to let” boom?

 

Are you grateful?

 

Is it fair that the legacy for the generation below 30 is massive student debt, now with 6.1% interest, and deregulation of the employment market through the gig economy?

[CB Fry]

If any of this is serious then I am deeply sickened by the mentality of some of you. Let’s all hope that none of you get old after a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes.

 

Snivelling little brats.

 

Plenty of people are in the middle of a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes but won't get the advantages your generation got.

 

Remember it ain't your taxes from the past paying for any pension and healthcare you recieve from the state. It's mine and the snivelling little brats working and paying in now.

 

The idea that the state has miraculously squirrelled away your taxes from decades ago to be preserved for your benefit in 2018 is laughable. The government runs a deficit ran up by previous generations. It's not your post office book matey.

 

Personally I'd rather my taxes weren't propping you up but I participate in society so will always do my bit.

 

So remember that and try and be grateful for once in your life you miserable moaning ungrateful old cu nt.

[colehillsaint]

My Mrs actually works in Poole hospital, oh and she isn’t an immigrant. If you think it’s bad now, wait till it merges with Bournemouth hospital and cross your fingers the traffic from colehills not too bad if you need an ambulance. The issue with that A& E is people are there who should be going to the doctors, but can’t get an appointment. Whether people like it or not population growth has contributed to that, added to labours ridiculous GP contracts. It’s only going to get worse, my son lives in Hamworthy, look how that’s grown the past 10 years. Soon they’re building on that side of the quay, on the old power station site, Carter’s quay and on the Sydenhams site. Extra doctors surgeries planned to deal with all those extra people, none. I’m not saying it’s all immigrants, as I don’t see too many in Poole (including my Mrs work mates at the hospital), but to deny population growth without extra capacity doesn’t affect health provision is just putting your head in the sand.

 

 

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I believe the NHS is facing a storm of factors including a greater range of available treatments, increasing life expectancy, increase in population. Not least modern life has become so complex with freedom of information, data protection, and a very litigious culture. So many factors have to be considered in just employing people, and when you have such a massive organisation it becomes utterly unmanageable. I would imagine that the years of creation and optimism around the NHS are very difficult to recapture! Fair play to anyone who is trying. Genuinely.

 

My testimony on Poole A&E, was honest, I think, although you are right in terms of me not really knowing the exact background of the staff that were attending.

 

My only point is that to blame all of this solely on immigration, (when lots of immigrants are working in the health system), is just really crap.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Is it fair that the legacy for the generation below 30 is massive student debt, now with 6.1% interest, and deregulation of the employment market through the gig economy?

 

According to Martin Lewis 83% of students won’t pay their loan off. He also claims you have to be a high earner for 30 years for the interest rate to make any difference to you. The legacy the over 30’s could leave the youngsters is to stop frightening them over this “debt”.

 

 

 

 

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[Smirking_Saint]

According to Martin Lewis 83% of students won’t pay their loan off. He also claims you have to be a high earner for 30 years for the interest rate to make any difference to you. The legacy the over 30’s could leave the youngsters is to stop frightening them over this “debt”.

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, I must admit I see the whole 'student debt' issue as a massive myth really, and I went to uni and am profiting off of the job that I was able to acquire due to my Electrical Engineering Degree.

 

It is basically the most favourable debt of more or less any kind I can think of off of the top of my head.

 

The alternative is a he proportion of public funds swallowed up effectively paying for the younger generation to effectively toss it off at Uni, and having been there I do mean that in avery sense of the word. For every 1 or 2 people I know that studied hard and are now paying back society with their higher education I know of atleast 4 or 5 that achieved absolutely nothing out of university at all. I do believe the whole system needs to be changed however, we should probably propose a certain amount of 'free' spaces for students with an aptitude to take them on within the sectors that have been identified as requiring re-staffing. For instance, if we need X amount of engineers or doctors then the government proposes X2 free spaces. The rest of the courses should remain as paid entry like it currently is. I think the problem is too many now see university as a right of passage, instead of what it is there for. And lets face it, the debt doesn't matter if you are improving your ability to create wealth for yourself in the form of higher wages.

 

As for the NHS, I think the whole thing needs a reform, but I think issues such as the NHS, education etc are stifled by the way we elect our governments. The reality from what I can see is that the NHS needs refunding, or in essence proper funding through increase in taxes. This unfortunately is a topic no party that wishes to remain in power will be looking to put forward in their manifesto unless is it absolutely necessary. So why can't we take pressing issues such as this off of the table ? Agree party wide that there will be a system that runs in a certain way, with a certain budget and taxed appropriately ? And then allow the parties to chastise each other over the other subjects that are less pressing to the needs of the masses ?

[colehillsaint]

According to Martin Lewis 83% of students won’t pay their loan off. He also claims you have to be a high earner for 30 years for the interest rate to make any difference to you. The legacy the over 30’s could leave the youngsters is to stop frightening them over this “debt”.

 

 

 

 

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You have to earn £65k plus to beat off the interest from a 4 year Masters degree at a decent uni. Source; my son in his 3rd year of a maths MA at Reading. The problem with the “you’ll never have to pay it off” argument is that successive governments have changed the goalposts a couple of times already. It is time for society to stop letting them do that, and stand up for the next generation. If you owed them 60 grand would you trust them? Because, I know I don’t. Having to pay the additional tax is just unfair anyway, after circumstances were so different for us.

[benjii]

If any of this is serious then I am deeply sickened by the mentality of some of you. Let’s all hope that none of you get old after a lifetime of hard work and paying taxes.

 

Snivelling little brats.

 

No one's saying, "don't look after old folk". They are questioning why you should have a say over the future of the country and it's particularly pertinent when the current generation of emerging pensioners have benefitted from pretty much every fluke under the sun.

[colehillsaint]

No one's saying, "don't look after old folk". They are questioning why you should have a say over the future of the country and it's particularly pertinent when the current generation of emerging pensioners have benefitted from pretty much every fluke under the sun.

 

This.

[benjii]

Yeah, I must admit I see the whole 'student debt' issue as a massive myth really, and I went to uni and am profiting off of the job that I was able to acquire due to my Electrical Engineering Degree.

 

It is basically the most favourable debt of more or less any kind I can think of off of the top of my head.

 

The alternative is a he proportion of public funds swallowed up effectively paying for the younger generation to effectively toss it off at Uni, and having been there I do mean that in avery sense of the word. For every 1 or 2 people I know that studied hard and are now paying back society with their higher education I know of atleast 4 or 5 that achieved absolutely nothing out of university at all. I do believe the whole system needs to be changed however, we should probably propose a certain amount of 'free' spaces for students with an aptitude to take them on within the sectors that have been identified as requiring re-staffing. For instance, if we need X amount of engineers or doctors then the government proposes X2 free spaces. The rest of the courses should remain as paid entry like it currently is. I think the problem is too many now see university as a right of passage, instead of what it is there for. And lets face it, the debt doesn't matter if you are improving your ability to create wealth for yourself in the form of higher wages.

 

As for the NHS, I think the whole thing needs a reform, but I think issues such as the NHS, education etc are stifled by the way we elect our governments. The reality from what I can see is that the NHS needs refunding, or in essence proper funding through increase in taxes. This unfortunately is a topic no party that wishes to remain in power will be looking to put forward in their manifesto unless is it absolutely necessary. So why can't we take pressing issues such as this off of the table ? Agree party wide that there will be a system that runs in a certain way, with a certain budget and taxed appropriately ? And then allow the parties to chastise each other over the other subjects that are less pressing to the needs of the masses ?

 

The "dossing" issue is a result of education policy and could be fixed over time. Universities are for the academic elite. Or at least they should be. Rather than creating an industry ripping off average or less able students by dumbing down exams and creating an expectation of university we should have been providing proper vocational training and decent-paid apprenticeships

[colehillsaint]

The "dossing" issue is a result of education policy and could be fixed over time. Universities are for the academic elite. Or at least they should be. Rather than creating an industry ripping off average or less able students by dumbing down exams and creating an expectation of university we should have been providing proper vocational training and decent-paid apprenticeships

 

Again, this.

[Manuel]

Sometimes old people are wiser and do well with their vote. They've seen more of life and perhaps have witnessed societies make the same mistakes over and over that the young may not have. As an example, it may only be those over a certain age who have witnessed war first hand - these are people we should be listening to.

[farawaysaint]

Paid more in taxes over their life, entitled to a say.

[CB Fry]

According to Martin Lewis 83% of students won’t pay their loan off. He also claims you have to be a high earner for 30 years for the interest rate to make any difference to you. The legacy the over 30’s could leave the youngsters is to stop frightening them over this “debt”.

 

 

 

 

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That doesn't mean they get free money.

 

What that study said is most students will make repayments year after year for 30 years at which point the loan expires.

 

So that is a "tax"/burden that generation are stuck with for 30 years, and the point is really about the shi t salaries graduates can expect to get because of the gig economy and non-jobs. None of it is some great advantage for that age group - just symptoms of them being part of a very unlucky generation.

 

And those grads who do get good jobs that allow them to pay it off are still stuck with that and high rents and a completely impossible task to get a mortgage.

 

Of course the generation who bought a house on a mortgage at just 2 1/2 times their income and saw it rocket by doing nothing...they earned it. Really earned it.

[colehillsaint]

Sometimes old people are wiser and do well with their vote. They've seen more of life and perhaps have witnessed societies make the same mistakes over and over that the young may not have. As an example, it may only be those over a certain age who have witnessed war first hand - these are people we should be listening to.

 

That would be no-one under 90 and selected vets from the Falklands and the Gulf then?

[Lord Duckhunter]

You have to earn £65k plus to beat off the interest from a 4 year Masters degree at a decent uni. Source; my son in his 3rd year of a maths MA at Reading. The problem with the “you’ll never have to pay it off” argument is that successive governments have changed the goalposts a couple of times already. It is time for society to stop letting them do that, and stand up for the next generation. If you owed them 60 grand would you trust them? Because, I know I don’t. Having to pay the additional tax is just unfair anyway, after circumstances were so different for us.

 

That’s a really good point. Future Governments can absolutely change the terms. And no, I wouldn’t trust any of them

 

Society needs to make a decision . We can either send 10% to uni with no fees or 50% with fees. I doubt we can put the genie back in the bottle as the industry is too big to change now. We can absolutely not afford to pay for 50% of the population to go to uni for free. What I find strange & incoherent is Corbyn wanting to make it free. Who does it help, the graduates that will pay off their loans. Which is in effect the very richest, the same richest he wants to tax more. Whether the left like it or not, fees are progressive. The more you earn, the more you pay back. If you’re poor, you don’t pay a penny back and it’s written off after 30 years. Its not really a loan, more of a higher tax rate , and should be renamed.

 

It’s too easy to compare free uni of our days (not that I went) with payment now, it’s a different beast now with so many more going.

 

 

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Edited 10 February, 2018 by Lord Duckhunter

[colehillsaint]

That’s a really good point. Future Governments can absolutely change the terms. And no, I wouldn’t trust any of them

 

Society needs to make a decision . We can either send 10% to uni with no fees or 50% with fees. I doubt we can put the genie back in the bottle as the industry is too big to change now. We can absolutely not afford to pay for 50% of the population to go to uni for free. What I find strange & incoherent is Corbyn wanting to make it free. Who does it help, the graduates that will pay off their loans. Which is in effect the very richest, the same richest he wants to tax more. Whether the left like it or not, fees are progressive. The more you earn, the more you pay back. If you’re poor, you don’t pay a penny back and it’s written off after 30 years. Its not really a loan, more of a higher tax rate , and should be renamed.

 

It’s too easy to compare free uni of our days (not that I went) with payment now, it’s a different beast now with so many more going.

 

 

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That’s the rub though you see. Whilst I don’t disagree with most of the above, (10% and more serious vocational part time further ed, for a start), straightforward tax of high incomes/property etc. is progressive and fair as well, but you won’t persuade your high income, end of career people to vote for that. You can’t get a “graduate” tax for only a specific generation to sound even half fair either. So it has been called “a loan”, with an uncertain future liability.

 

Really unfair, sneaky and nasty.

[miserableoldgit]

Immigration! Honestly, **** off.

 

I took my nipper down to Poole A&E three weeks ago for stitches in his hand, and it’s the same as every other visit in the last 10 years. Lots of fat white people barely motivated to get dressed before going out, being attended to by a staff of immigrants, prepared to do unpleasant work. The idea that immigration is stressing rather than propping up our health system is contrary to everything I can see, when I go anywhere near a hospital.

 

I wouldn’t deny the vote to anyone. It would just be wrong, but, as a generation, the baby boomers have become winey, entitled, smug, self serving and ungrateful for the opportunities they have had.

 

I am 68. I have worked all my life (since 15). I have paid all of my tax and NI all of those years. I have just retired now so I voluntarily worked three years past my official retirement age. I have done my bit (and some) so I find your comment "as a generation, the baby boomers have become winey, entitled, smug, self serving and ungrateful for the opportunities they have had." disgusting and insulting. I am none of the things that you accuse my generation of, and nor is anyone else that I know. If you accused any other section of society of those things I am sure that it would be considered unacceptable but I expect that baby-boomers don't matter because we have outlived our usefulness...

 

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[colehillsaint]

I am 68. I have worked all my life (since 15). I have paid all of my tax and NI all of those years. I have just retired now so I voluntarily worked three years past my official retirement age. I have done my bit (and some) so I find your comment "as a generation, the baby boomers have become winey, entitled, smug, self serving and ungrateful for the opportunities they have had." disgusting and insulting. I am none of the things that you accuse my generation of, and nor is anyone else that I know. If you accused any other section of society of those things I am sure that it would be considered unacceptable but I expect that baby-boomers don't matter because we have outlived our usefulness...

 

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There you go. You’ve just ticked whiney.

[miserableoldgit]

There you go. You’ve just ticked whiney.

Pathetic! Stand up for yourself when you are young and you are strong.....do it when you are old and you are Whiney....

 

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[colehillsaint]

Pathetic! Stand up for yourself when you are young and you are strong.....do it when you are old and you are Whiney....

 

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If you take the argument to that level no one can help you. My Dad farmed until he was 72, and only packed in because my mothers health needed his full attention. The debate Paxman is raising is not about you or him personally. It’s about a generation not seeing a bigger picture, and voting for its own narrow self interest, and seeing its absolute rights as individuals outweighing the needs of wider society and the future generation.

 

My dad, now 78, can see it, and agrees with me. His view is that he has been part of the luckiest generation ever to live. Would you disagree with him?

[badgerx16]

Of course the generation who bought a house on a mortgage at just 2 1/2 times their income and saw it rocket by doing nothing...they earned it. Really earned it.

When we took out our mortgage in 1985, at three and a half times salary, it was to hopefully provide a secure home for our children, and ultimately for our retirement. There was never an expectation that house prices would boom in the way they did.

[Smirking_Saint]

The "dossing" issue is a result of education policy and could be fixed over time. Universities are for the academic elite. Or at least they should be. Rather than creating an industry ripping off average or less able students by dumbing down exams and creating an expectation of university we should have been providing proper vocational training and decent-paid apprenticeships

 

Like days of old when I used to pay my subscription I find myself agree with you again Benj..... on all the points on this thread basically.

 

As per usual I waffled through those paragraphs and got bored at the end, but basically I see the future like to say, by returning University to the elite, and looking into apprenticeships for those less academically able. I would even suggest looking at options to allow kids to start apprenticeships in say years 10/11 if they are looking at poor academic results.

[miserableoldgit]

If you take the argument to that level no one can help you. My Dad farmed until he was 72, and only packed in because my mothers health needed his full attention. The debate Paxman is raising is not about you or him personally. It’s about a generation not seeing a bigger picture, and voting for its own narrow self interest, and seeing its absolute rights as individuals outweighing the needs of wider society and the future generation.

 

My dad, now 78, can see it, and agrees with me. His view is that he has been part of the luckiest generation ever to live. Would you disagree with him?

I wouldn't disagree that we have been "lucky" as a generation...certainly compared to my Dad and Grandad, both of whom fought in World Wars, but when I was growing up in the 50's there was rationing and austerity.....things changed in the 60's and began to get better. We got married in 1971 (and we still are) and lived in a mobile home for 7 years. We bought our first house in 78...and shortly after inflation went up to 25%....our mortgage that we could just afford virtually doubled....it was a real struggle. We had the oil crisis and the three day week....we had the recession of 80 when I was out of work for 3 months....nothing around. All I am saying is that it hasn't all been "lucky". All you can do is play the cards that you have been dealt in life. Surely we can't be blamed for that? It now seem fashionable to blame baby-boomers for most things....but in a democracy we all have a vote that we should cast freely and honestly....nothing should change that.

 

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[Manuel]

If you take the argument to that level no one can help you. My Dad farmed until he was 72, and only packed in because my mothers health needed his full attention. The debate Paxman is raising is not about you or him personally. It’s about a generation not seeing a bigger picture, and voting for its own narrow self interest, and seeing its absolute rights as individuals outweighing the needs of wider society and the future generation.

 

My dad, now 78, can see it, and agrees with me. His view is that he has been part of the luckiest generation ever to live. Would you disagree with him?

But my father grew up in terrible conditions in the Glasgow slums, the sort of poverty which is 'pretty much' eradicated now in the UK. Sure it's hard for young people now...high rents, education fees, etc but I expect my father would say we have it better now than he did. Then again, he's never really had to experience debt like people now have to.

[badgerx16]

If you take the vote away from the elderly, would you also take it from the terminally ill ?

[saint1977]

That’s a really good point. Future Governments can absolutely change the terms. And no, I wouldn’t trust any of them

 

Society needs to make a decision . We can either send 10% to uni with no fees or 50% with fees. I doubt we can put the genie back in the bottle as the industry is too big to change now. We can absolutely not afford to pay for 50% of the population to go to uni for free. What I find strange & incoherent is Corbyn wanting to make it free. Who does it help, the graduates that will pay off their loans. Which is in effect the very richest, the same richest he wants to tax more. Whether the left like it or not, fees are progressive. The more you earn, the more you pay back. If you’re poor, you don’t pay a penny back and it’s written off after 30 years. Its not really a loan, more of a higher tax rate , and should be renamed.

 

It’s too easy to compare free uni of our days (not that I went) with payment now, it’s a different beast now with so many more going.

 

 

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Whilst I don’t agree with your posts on Brexit, this is an accurate post that summarises the position and choices well. Major was well meaning in his quest for a classless society in bringing the sector together in 1992 and paving the way for its expansion but now you have a sector where missions are all over the shop chasing teaching income, masters and PhD study, industrial strategy, applied research, blues skies, knowledge exchange etc. Instead of a market, what we have is a free for all and Universities playing well away from their traditional individual strengths and missions - be it excellent teaching, research and preparing for research careers, industrial engagement. May lowering fees will do nothing to aid sorting this out and it is just pandering to Corbyn’s strengths. Although where the fook he would get £11bn from to let everyone go for free is anyone’s guess, nor £90bn to renationalise water utilities.

[Verbal]

Just for a brief happy moment I thought this thread was called 'Banning old gits from posting.'

 

Then they and their immigrant-hating crap was posted all over it.

 

Oh well.

[colehillsaint]

I wouldn't disagree that we have been "lucky" as a generation...certainly compared to my Dad and Grandad, both of whom fought in World Wars, but when I was growing up in the 50's there was rationing and austerity.....things changed in the 60's and began to get better. We got married in 1971 (and we still are) and lived in a mobile home for 7 years. We bought our first house in 78...and shortly after inflation went up to 25%....our mortgage that we could just afford virtually doubled....it was a real struggle. We had the oil crisis and the three day week....we had the recession of 80 when I was out of work for 3 months....nothing around. All I am saying is that it hasn't all been "lucky". All you can do is play the cards that you have been dealt in life. Surely we can't be blamed for that? It now seem fashionable to blame baby-boomers for most things....but in a democracy we all have a vote that we should cast freely and honestly....nothing should change that.

 

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I wouldn’t begrudge your vote, or your luck, at all. The point about your life, and mine, my Dads, and for that matter my grandparents, is that life is about getting to feel just a little optimistic, that it might be a struggle, but you are moving forward. The struggle actually makes it better if you can get somewhere in the end, expressed through your obvious pride in your journey.

 

The toxin of debt, unaffordable and scarce housing, infrastructure development hampered by vested interests, the encroaching automation of lots of well paid work, the gig economy, all seems to conspire against the under 30’s in our society currently. All you can ask for is a chance, and I don’t think, purely on a generational level, they are getting a fair crack at it.

 

The baby boomers on the other hand would serve themselves well if they consulted the young about the choices they want for the future, rather than populating social media with crap about “fighting nazis for your future, you ungrateful little....” and blaming everything on immigration, that the young are generally very comfortable with. Not necessarily individually, but as a generation.

 

Meanwhile many politicians are scrabbling around to appeal with populist crap, that particularly older people should not be falling for! The political class should be forgetting the old arguments and thinking hard about how to make systems that share the benefits of globalisation, rather than calling the young, and poor, lazy or whatever.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just for a brief happy moment I thought this thread was called 'Banning old gits from posting.'

 

Then they and their immigrant-hating crap was posted all over it.

 

Oh well.

 

What a load of pony.

 

Immigrant hating crap all over it, what a ****ing snowflake.

 

 

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[Suomi Saint]

Banning old people from voting.....how is this any different than banning the Jews from voting under the 1935 Nuremberg Laws? It becomes the thin end of the wedge and where does it end? Old people would no longer have the ability to influence government policy, so what would happen if the new Nationalist Socialists decide to punish the elderly for their privileged years of inaccessible university education, interest rates at over 20%, unheated housing etc. Would you treat immigrants in the same manner? I doubt it. Then don’t even suggest doing it to decent people that have bought you into this world and have given you the freedoms you now enjoy. Older people recognise that the young are having a tough time particularly with respect to housing, and it is time for some of you to realise that the old are not your enemy. Btw, anyone who questions the effects of mass immigration is not a racist or a bigot, they are just comparing how things functioned prior to Maastricht to how they are now. The liberals always try to shut down valid debate using the R card, which is an attempt to limit freedom of speech and freedom of debate.

[colehillsaint]

Banning old people from voting.

 

I don’t think anyone on the thread is actually advocating that. If you read Paxman’s piece he is talking about “weighting”, and I would imagine he is only stimulating debate. No-one, in their right mind, is going to want to ban old people from voting, or devalue their vote.

[Suomi Saint]

I don’t think anyone on the thread is actually advocating that. If you read Paxman’s piece he is talking about “weighting”, and I would imagine he is only stimulating debate. No-one, in their right mind, is going to want to ban old people from voting, or devalue their vote.

 

Weighing reduces the power of the single vote and would make the elderly second class citizens. It is still disenfranchisement of a large proportion of the population. Paxman is an idiot.

[scotty]

Just for a brief happy moment I thought this thread was called 'Banning old gits from posting.'

 

Then they and their immigrant-hating crap was posted all over it.

 

Oh well.

One poster blamed immigrants. One. And he immediately got jumped all over for it.

[benjii]

Banning old people from voting.....how is this any different than banning the Jews from voting under the 1935 Nuremberg Laws? It becomes the thin end of the wedge and where does it end? Old people would no longer have the ability to influence government policy, so what would happen if the new Nationalist Socialists decide to punish the elderly for their privileged years of inaccessible university education, interest rates at over 20%, unheated housing etc. Would you treat immigrants in the same manner? I doubt it. Then don’t even suggest doing it to decent people that have bought you into this world and have given you the freedoms you now enjoy. Older people recognise that the young are having a tough time particularly with respect to housing, and it is time for some of you to realise that the old are not your enemy. Btw, anyone who questions the effects of mass immigration is not a racist or a bigot, they are just comparing how things functioned prior to Maastricht to how they are now. The liberals always try to shut down valid debate using the R card, which is an attempt to limit freedom of speech and freedom of debate.

 

Awesome satire.