Did we really have any intention of buying Promes?

[ChiefScummer]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this. If the buyout clause was allegedly 30mil why the hell did Les dilly dally AGAIN? I know Les likes to p1ss about but doing it at the ar se end of the transfer window while we were sitting in the relegation zone and the position the club is in, surely he should have just given in to their demands? All to save about 6 mil? Compare that to the TV dosh we could lose in the long run...the red flags are up indeed.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was all just a bloody panto with the board "going in for the buy" while having zero intention of paying the cash. A big publicity stunt to appease the fans and stop us moaning. And when it inevitably all falls through at the last hurdle Les can turn around and say "well we did try." Sorry but I'm calling b*llocks to the whole ordeal.

 

100% certain the final destination of the VVD dosh was always going to be Gaos pocket.

 

Thoughts?

[saint-crinny]

Very easy to feel disenchanted and end up thinking this way.

 

I actually disagree on this one, think there was an intention to buy, just maybe the release clause was higher than our valuation so we didn't make it work. Hard to criticise that principle of course, although if we go down the question is screaming out at them all.

 

Guess the acid test would be if we stay up (as we should with this squad) then how quick do we seal a Promes deal in the summer, given we were reliably informed that it would happen in the summer as a deal was already struck?

[Maya's Dad]

it was mentioned that the issue was over spartak wanting the release fee in one lump sum, rather than installments (which is most likely how the vvd money is being paid) which les clearly didnt want to do. close thread

[glengarryleads]

Thoughts? alright. You're a narcissist, you don't have any idea what you're on about, and you probably watch too many shows about conspiracies and cover-ups. Somebody call the cops!

[Saint in Paradise]

To be fair to LR ( and I don't like saying that very much ) I doubt if he had the authority to

agree to the fee up front rather than via installments. That would be purely down to the almost

invisible and silent owner as it's his money.

[Wade Garrett]

If we had any intention of buying anyone else, then surely Les would have pulled the plug on this deal days before the window shut to give him time to pursue other targets.

 

I reckon the supporters were mugged off. This deal was never going to complete and the club knew it. Where I disagree with the original post is that the money can't go straight into the owner's pocket.

[Fan The Flames]

Whah whah whah Les Reeds a **** whah whah whah.

 

Its the 8 Feb has it taken you a week to get 'angry' or did you need that a whole week to compose your post, I mean it have big words in it and everything.

[Saint-Fred]

If we had any intention of buying anyone else, then surely Les would have pulled the plug on this deal days before the window shut to give him time to pursue other targets.

 

I reckon the supporters were mugged off. This deal was never going to complete and the club knew it. Where I disagree with the original post is that the money can't go straight into the owner's pocket.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/12/oyston-family-treats-blackpool-personal-cash-machine-high-court

 

This lot seemed to manage to take money starlight out of their club!

I don't know Gao's intentions but I am sure he will be taking enough to service the debt and a bit for himself each year, however it's not inconceivable that should he want more, there are ways he could take it.

[Batman]

if we stay up, we'll see then due to the line fed that he wants to come.to saints and we will be back in the summer

[brmbrm]

Thoughts? alright. You're a narcissist, you don't have any idea what you're on about, and you probably watch too many shows about conspiracies and cover-ups. Somebody call the cops!

 

Seems a pretty fair summary to me.

 

Personally, I do find it a bit of a struggle these days to come up with 6 million of petty cash

[alpine_saint]

I have my doubts, to be honest.

 

But it kept us distracted, and they were able to shrug their shoulders and cite back luck at the end.

 

I guess we'll finally find out IF we stay up and IF we sign him in the summer.

[angelman]

Our squad is perfectly good enough and capable of finishing high up the table. Just buying because they are not being utilised properly seems to be what the fans demand, but is not a very good way of doing business.

[Batman]

Our squad is perfectly good enough and capable of finishing high up the table. Just buying because they are not being utilised properly seems to be what the fans demand, but is not a very good way of doing business.

I would suggest buying a quality quick attacking player within our price range is good business. even in January and with this squad

[Saint Pete]

Our squad is perfectly good enough and capable of finishing high up the table. Just buying because they are not being utilised properly seems to be what the fans demand, but is not a very good way of doing business.

I agree that our squad should be plenty good enough to be well clear of relegation if well managed. BUT if we aim to finish "high up the table", there are a couple of areas that definitely need addressing where our squad has definitely regressed in last couple of seasons. One of those is a lack of pacy attacking players who can find the net.

 

So, given that Promes always seemed like a 50/50 chance of us signing him at best, it's disappointing and a bit strange that the club weren't able to do more in lining up another good alternative to strengthen this area of the team. They clearly had the cash available hence the large bids for Promes.

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[John B]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this. If the buyout clause was allegedly 30mil why the hell did Les dilly dally AGAIN? I know Les likes to p1ss about but doing it at the ar se end of the transfer window while we were sitting in the relegation zone and the position the club is in, surely he should have just given in to their demands? All to save about 6 mil? Compare that to the TV dosh we could lose in the long run...the red flags are up indeed.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was all just a bloody panto with the board "going in for the buy" while having zero intention of paying the cash. A big publicity stunt to appease the fans and stop us moaning. And when it inevitably all falls through at the last hurdle Les can turn around and say "well we did try." Sorry but I'm calling b*llocks to the whole ordeal.

 

100% certain the final destination of the VVD dosh was always going to be Gaos pocket.

 

Thoughts?

 

Why would we waste time in trying to sign him if we did not want him.

 

How do you think all the VVD money is going to get into GAO's pocket?

 

Surely the club is audited and pays taxes on profits.

 

I doubt he wanders in to the club shop to grab a few quid from the till to buy some Sweet and Sour Pork in a local Takeaway but of course I maybe wrong

[Window Cleaner]

Probably yes but on our terms and not theirs. Our terms weren't acceptable to them at the time so nothing was finalised.

[Roboze]

He won't be coming in the summer either..........Liverpool have now been alerted to him!

[tajjuk]

I think we had the intention definitely but I reckon because we wanted to pay the fee in installments, they put conditions on it and thus it didn't go through and we didn't want to pay all up front.

 

We'll see in the summer if the 'agreement in place' stuff was complete BS, if we stay up of course. If we do stay up then I'd expect him to join early, or a suitable alternative to join early.

 

He is exactly the sort of player we need to freshen up our forward line.

[doddisalegend]

He won't be coming in the summer either..........Liverpool have now been alerted to him!

 

 

They won't be interested until he has had a season playing in Liverpool's southern based academy first...

[Charlie Wayman]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this. If the buyout clause was allegedly 30mil why the hell did Les dilly dally AGAIN? I know Les likes to p1ss about but doing it at the ar se end of the transfer window while we were sitting in the relegation zone and the position the club is in, surely he should have just given in to their demands? All to save about 6 mil? Compare that to the TV dosh we could lose in the long run...the red flags are up indeed.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was all just a bloody panto with the board "going in for the buy" while having zero intention of paying the cash. A big publicity stunt to appease the fans and stop us moaning. And when it inevitably all falls through at the last hurdle Les can turn around and say "well we did try." Sorry but I'm calling b*llocks to the whole ordeal.

 

100% certain the final destination of the VVD dosh was always going to be Gaos pocket.

 

Thoughts?

 

Another new cynic joins the fray! There are plenty of those on here already. What we really need are people who actually know what has been going on or are open minded enough to recognise that more often than not the simplest explanation of events is far more likely to be near the truth.

 

In this case, the truth is probably that we went all out to get Promes but Les Reed cocked up the negotiations big time, an outcome which he has been amazingly good at achieving year after year.

[St_Tel49]

Another new cynic joins the fray! There are plenty of those on here already. What we really need are people who actually know what has been going on or are open minded enough to recognise that more often than not the simplest explanation of events is far more likely to be near the truth.

 

In this case, the truth is probably that we went all out to get Promes but Les Reed cocked up the negotiations big time, an outcome which he has been amazingly good at achieving year after year.

 

I very much doubt if he is new. Obviously an alias for one of our usual suspects but I cannot be arsed to work out which.

[sadoldgit]

Not one person here knows what when on behind the scenes. We believe that there was an attempt to sign Walcott and when that failed we turned our attention to Promes. His club apparently wanted the money up front and or wanted a replacement before he left so wouldnt let him go. It may have been bad luck, it may have been a cock up but in the absence of any hard facts, let's just assume it was either total incompetence or a smokescreen because we didnt want to buy another player after Carrillo. When in doubt, slag the Board.

[Micky]

Naaahhh - it was all a ruse, obviously.

[Super_Uwe]

I recall Pellegrino saying in a press conference a few weeks ago something along the lines of it being a matter of bringing in quality and that it might be one, two or more players.

 

Just my opinion but I don't seriously think we were in for Promes. Just like Walcott. I think we were only ever in for Carrillo as he'd worked with Pellegrino before. Maybe I'm wrong and he will join in the summer (if we stay up), but I just feel it was a story that had legs and indirectly helped reduce the heat on the board and club a bit.

[eddie]

I think we were ready to put the money down but Spartak didn't have a replacement lined up.

 

Bottom line then: we should have put the money on the table much, much earlier (before window opened, even).

 

Clearly VVD was heading off. It's likely that an agreement was made back in December sometime with conversations in November.

 

Why we couldn't have sounded out Spartak along a similar timeframe baffles me. I'm judging we didn't based on the fact media reports didn't surface until mid January.

 

I think he seems absolutely fantastic and exactly what we need - a winger!

 

I hope he will join in the summer, my only worry is that we needed his firepower and pace now to actually stay up in the league. No chance we'll go for him or he'll come if we're in the championship.

 

Positive for me is that we were willing to put close to 30 million down for a player. Change in transfer policy that I heartily approve of.

[John B]

I recall Pellegrino saying in a press conference a few weeks ago something along the lines of it being a matter of bringing in quality and that it might be one, two or more players.

 

Just my opinion but I don't seriously think we were in for Promes. Just like Walcott. I think we were only ever in for Carrillo as he'd worked with Pellegrino before. Maybe I'm wrong and he will join in the summer (if we stay up), but I just feel it was a story that had legs and indirectly helped reduce the heat on the board and club a bit.

 

It is pretty worrying if people like you reject evidence

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/11229172/southampton-have-quincy-promes-bid-rejected-by-spartak-moscow

 

and believe what ever they think is the reality of the situation.

 

We bid but were not successful

[Whitey Grandad]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this. If the buyout clause was allegedly 30mil why the hell did Les dilly dally AGAIN? I know Les likes to p1ss about but doing it at the ar se end of the transfer window while we were sitting in the relegation zone and the position the club is in, surely he should have just given in to their demands? All to save about 6 mil? Compare that to the TV dosh we could lose in the long run...the red flags are up indeed.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was all just a bloody panto with the board "going in for the buy" while having zero intention of paying the cash. A big publicity stunt to appease the fans and stop us moaning. And when it inevitably all falls through at the last hurdle Les can turn around and say "well we did try." Sorry but I'm calling b*llocks to the whole ordeal.

 

100% certain the final destination of the VVD dosh was always going to be Gaos pocket.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thoughts?

 

I think you haven’t got the slightest clue about football finances and how transfers are handled. And if you think that owning a football club is a giant money-making machine then I have some Nigerian financial bonds that you might be interested in.

[Nordic Saint]

Something doesn't sit right with me about this. If the buyout clause was allegedly 30mil why the hell did Les dilly dally AGAIN? I know Les likes to p1ss about but doing it at the ar se end of the transfer window while we were sitting in the relegation zone and the position the club is in, surely he should have just given in to their demands? All to save about 6 mil? Compare that to the TV dosh we could lose in the long run...the red flags are up indeed.

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if it was all just a bloody panto with the board "going in for the buy" while having zero intention of paying the cash. A big publicity stunt to appease the fans and stop us moaning. And when it inevitably all falls through at the last hurdle Les can turn around and say "well we did try." Sorry but I'm calling b*llocks to the whole ordeal.

 

100% certain the final destination of the VVD dosh was always going to be Gaos pocket.

 

Thoughts?

 

In retrospect, it seemed a pretty half-hearted attempt to buy him. Being linked with big name players in the transfer window, even if you don't actually buy them, always goes down well with the fans. There were certainly a lot of PR updates/'leaks' from the club about it to keep the fans excited, right up to the end. You just have to look at the number of posts about it on here to see how well it worked. Certainly since Paul Mitchell left and even before, our club seems to do its transfer business incredibly publicly. We get told about every player we are interested in and we also get told all of the negative things the players and managers who ae going to be sold are supposedly doing, in the weeks leading up to their sale. A lot of it does seem to be PR bullsh!t to appease the fans.

[SaintMB]

I'm pretty sure all you have to do to sign a player is put in a bid and click on continue.

Then after a few seconds you either have an agreement or you have to bump up the offer by a few mil and resubmit. All done in about 30 seconds.

If you don't succeed, just end the process and reload your last save to try again.

[Batman]

I'm pretty sure all you have to do to sign a player is put in a bid and click on continue.

Then after a few seconds you either have an agreement or you have to bump up the offer by a few mil and resubmit. All done in about 30 seconds.

If you don't succeed, just end the process and reload your last save to try again.

you have to wonder why the manager suggested we should not have left it so late with promes. if it is just a case of fans getting it all wrong

[Window Cleaner]

you have to wonder why the manager suggested we should not have left it so late with promes. if it is just a case of fans getting it all wrong

 

Perhaps he wanted Promes from the off but All England Les probably tried to fob him off with Theo.

[Give it to Ron]

you have to wonder why the manager suggested we should not have left it so late with promes. if it is just a case of fans getting it all wrong

 

Because our A target was Walcott and we thought we were getting him so didn't start negotiating for Promes until too late?

[diggers]

IMHO it was the player saying "hang on, I want to see if they are getting relegated first". If we stay up he'll sign.

[Nordic Saint]

Another new cynic joins the fray! There are plenty of those on here already. What we really need are people who actually know what has been going on or are open minded enough to recognise that more often than not the simplest explanation of events is far more likely to be near the truth.

 

In this case, the truth is probably that we went all out to get Promes but Les Reed cocked up the negotiations big time, an outcome which he has been amazingly good at achieving year after year.

 

Fair enough. It's probably as simple as that. Old Les just doesn't seem very good at negotiating with footballers and managers. I guess, as our head of recruitment, Paul Mitchell used to handle most of that before. Pity Lepzig got him. Seems to be a good fit for both of them. Leipzig are a very ambitious club, currently 3rd in the Bundesligs and looking to build their squad for the Champions League, and they have now got one of the most talented chief scouts in the business.

[aintforever]

Because our A target was Walcott and we thought we were getting him so didn't start negotiating for Promes until too late?

 

Whatever way you cut it it was a disastrous window. If it was because of Walcott we should have given Arsenal a deadline and moved onto Promes earlier.

 

We knew VVD was leaving way before the window opened and Walcott and Promes are not the only pacey wide players in the World.

[doddisalegend]

Whatever way you cut it it was a disastrous window. If it was because of Walcott we should have given Arsenal a deadline and moved onto Promes earlier.

 

We knew VVD was leaving way before the window opened and Walcott and Promes are not the only pacey wide players in the World.

 

 

We didn't need to give Arsenal a deadline both saints and Everton offered the asking price it was up to the player which club to choose and Walcott decided Everton was a better bet.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I’m still wondering why Fonte never played European football for us last season. Fans are told the bare minimum these days, that’s football for you. They love our money and the atmosphere we create at stadiums but we are viewed as an expendable nuisances otherwise.

[Give it to Ron]

Whatever way you cut it it was a disastrous window. If it was because of Walcott we should have given Arsenal a deadline and moved onto Promes earlier.

 

We knew VVD was leaving way before the window opened and Walcott and Promes are not the only pacey wide players in the World.

 

Agreed...but maybe they didnt trust this manager with a 30m asset given how he treated the other 50+m.

I wouldn't trust him with the drippings off my nose.

[aintforever]

We didn't need to give Arsenal a deadline both saints and Everton offered the asking price it was up to the player which club to choose and Walcott decided Everton was a better bet.

 

We should have given Walcott the deadline then and moved on if he chose someone else. It's not rocket science.

[derry]

it was mentioned that the issue was over spartak wanting the release fee in one lump sum' date=' rather than installments (which is most likely how the vvd money is being paid) which les clearly didnt want to do. close thread[/quote']

 

That's EUFA rules and the settlement goes to them to pay out.

[derry]

From a source within SFC- Walcott came to Southampton, wanted to sign and a deal was agreed, wages within our cap and his contract made up with other fees. Everton came in with a ridiculous salary offer to Walcott and blew us out of the water. If we wanted Walcott then surely we were serious about Promes. I've heard that the VVD fee was being paid over the term of his contract. If that is true we wouldn't be getting that massive lump up front that everybody is assuming. Therefore we may not have been in a position to pay the £28m approx. for the release fee up front without borrowing it.

[benjii]

I agree that our squad should be plenty good enough to be well clear of relegation if well managed. BUT if we aim to finish "high up the table", there are a couple of areas that definitely need addressing where our squad has definitely regressed in last couple of seasons. One of those is a lack of pacy attacking players who can find the net.

 

So, given that Promes always seemed like a 50/50 chance of us signing him at best, it's disappointing and a bit strange that the club weren't able to do more in lining up another good alternative to strengthen this area of the team. They clearly had the cash available hence the large bids for Promes.

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

Yeah but he wasn't the first choice. He was the fall back option.

[Tom & Gerry]

On a positive note players from outside the Premier league have often needed time to fit in and we don't have time. If we stay up and he signs in the summer its a win win.

[Lord Duckhunter]

From a source within SFC- Walcott came to Southampton, wanted to sign and a deal was agreed, wages within our cap and his contract made up with other fees. Everton came in with a ridiculous salary offer to Walcott and blew us out of the water. If we wanted Walcott then surely we were serious about Promes.

 

This is the explanation Matt gave to Jeff Stelling on Soccer Saturday. Seems perfectly plausible to me.

 

As for release clauses , they are actually buy out clauses. The buying club buy the player out of his contract and he becomes a free agent to then sign. Therefore the club holding the players contract are perfectly within their rights to demand up front payment for that contract. Most would probably accept the player doesn’t want to play for them anymore and may accept staged payments, but it looks like The Russians wouldn’t in this instance.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Micky]

From a source within SFC- Walcott came to Southampton, wanted to sign and a deal was agreed, wages within our cap and his contract made up with other fees. Everton came in with a ridiculous salary offer to Walcott and blew us out of the water. If we wanted Walcott then surely we were serious about Promes. I've heard that the VVD fee was being paid over the term of his contract. If that is true we wouldn't be getting that massive lump up front that everybody is assuming. Therefore we may not have been in a position to pay the £28m approx. for the release fee up front without borrowing it.

 

Sounds pretty feasible to me, certainly an explanation that I would be happy to accept. If this were indeed the case I have little complaint with how we have handled either player with regard to transfer dealings to be honest.

 

I find claims that we courted players purely to pacify fans, frankly, laughable.

[simo]

I find it hard to believe we lost out because at the last minute Spartak decided they wanted all the money up front ! And even if true why wouldn't we have another target lined up ?

[Toadhall Saint]

Sounds pretty feasible to me, certainly an explanation that I would be happy to accept. If this were indeed the case I have little complaint with how we have handled either player with regard to transfer dealings to be honest.

 

I find claims that we courted players purely to pacify fans, frankly, laughable.

 

The peasants are revolting - quick let’s tell them we’re making enquiries to bring here for £m

[Greedyfly]

IMHO it was the player saying "hang on, I want to see if they are getting relegated first". If we stay up he'll sign.

 

I will eat my pants if he signs. He is far too good for us. Has no intention of coming here in the summer is my feeling.

[trousers]

From a source within SFC- Walcott came to Southampton, wanted to sign and a deal was agreed, wages within our cap and his contract made up with other fees. Everton came in with a ridiculous salary offer to Walcott and blew us out of the water.

 

I wonder how many hours/days/weeks there were between us agreeing a deal with Arsenal/Walcott and Everton coming in with their salary offer. If it was hours then I can understand us being gazumped, but if it was days or weeks between the two events then could that indicate we weren't quick enough to tie him down?

[Graffito]

This is the explanation Matt gave to Jeff Stelling on Soccer Saturday. Seems perfectly plausible to me.

 

As for release clauses , they are actually buy out clauses. The buying club buy the player out of his contract and he becomes a free agent to then sign. Therefore the club holding the players contract are perfectly within their rights to demand up front payment for that contract. Most would probably accept the player doesn’t want to play for them anymore and may accept staged payments, but it looks like The Russians wouldn’t in this instance.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I’m not sure you’re right about that and would be interested to know where you got that information. From what I can tell buy out clauses are different from release clauses.

 

1. Buy out clauses are prevalent in La Liga. They are as you describe. Essentially, the player can buy out his contract for the sum specified in his contract. In practice the buying club pays.

 

2. A Release clause is a clause in a players contract linked to specific events or conditions e.g. sale of the player is triggered when say a top six club offers a minimum sum.

 

In fact, there is another type of Release Clause called a “Good Faith Release Clause”. This merely requires the selling club to negotiate in good faith should say an interested club offer a minimum sum specified in the players contract. But the key difference is that there is no obligation on the part of the selling club to sell. They simply have to negoatiate in good faith. An example is Wenger offering £40m plus a penny for Suarez, or whatever it was.

 

With release clauses the drafting is key.

 

So with Promes, I think any clause in his contract is not a Buy Out clause because he isn’t with a Spanish club. Any clause in his contract would be a Release Clause. This could be a trigger type release clause but one where the the drafting was poor or silent on e.g. payment terms, meaning negotiation by the clubs. Or we could have offered less than the trigger sum and the selling club was willing to negotiate (unlikely imo). Or the release clause could be a Good Faith Release clause leaving the clubs to negotiate in good faith and we eventually agreed terms. Either way we didn’t get it over the line but I believe the club did indeed want Promes, as second choice to Walcott.

 

Finally, not aware of any UEFA rules on these clauses. They appear to be contractual.