WBA 2 Saints 3 - Post Match

[doddisalegend]

I blame the manager for not picking lemina, for picking Davis, for not picking Austin early in the season, for sticking with Forster, for the overly defensive tactics. for not breaking the last 5 mins with subs against Watford. for playing tadic wide right.... amongst other things

 

He has a point though. The manager can take the blame for a lot (and rightly so) but some of the players are just as much fault for our position (but seem to get away with it because its all the managers fault) but no manager coaches CFs to spurn chance after chance, or tells CBs to constantly get out jumped by opposition players or tells an England international goal keeper to stay rooted to his line (**** knows how many points Forster has cost us this season). I couldn't care less if MoPe ****s off tomorrow but a new manager is unlikely to make the likes of Jack Stephens better in the air or Shane Long more clinical in front of goal.

 

The problems we are in now are combination of different things all coming together in a perfect **** storm this season.

[Batman]

He has a point though. The manager can take the blame for a lot (and rightly so) but some of the players are just as much fault for our position (but seem to get away with it because its all the managers fault) but no manager coaches CFs to spurn chance after chance, or tells CBs to constantly get out jumped by opposition players or tells an England international goal keeper to stay rooted to his line (**** knows how many points Forster has cost us this season). I couldn't care less if MoPe ****s off tomorrow but a new manager is unlikely to make the likes of Jack Stephens better in the air or Shane Long more clinical in front of goal.

 

The problems we are in now are combination of different things all coming together in a perfect **** storm this season.

basically, another manager won't do that much better then?

[Shandy_Top_89]

A bit late to the party with this thread.

 

Awful first 20 minutes, but great to see that reaction from the players. We showed some fantastic fluid play and scored 3 brilliant goals. Even better at 3-2 we didn't capitulate and continued to press; things we haven't been able to say for most part of the last 18 months. The highlights being the celebration for the third goal and the players reaction at the end, gives a sense of togetherness and fight that we haven't seen much of and gives me some hope for the future of this squad.

 

Lemina and JWP the absolute star players for me, surely Lemina should start every game from now on. Stephens may have a few errors in his system but I hope we persist with him, as his strength and experience increases I think we will reap the benefits of giving him game time now, what a header too! Also Carillo looked the part.

 

Finally I know it was a special day for West Brom, but I have to say that was up there with last years semi-final with the best atmosphere I have experienced at any ground (from both home and away supporters), really puts a perspective on the likes of Anfield that the media cream themselves over. Also given the importance of the game for both sides and the way it played out found it a thoroughly moving, exhilarating, enjoyable and friendly experience! For the sake of their support I hope they make it, just not at our expense!!

[doddisalegend]

basically, another manager won't do that much better then?

 

Not much IMO there are a number of issues in our squad that have been created by selling good players and ****ing up four transfer windows in a row. Until that is sorted managers are going to struggle to get much more out of this side. We are just another lower table side in a relegation fight which basically includes the whole bottom half of the table. Our squad is just another bang average PL squad.

[Batman]

Not much IMO there are a number of issues in our squad that have been created by selling good players and ****ing up four transfer windows in a row. Until that is sorted managers are going to struggle to get much more out of this side. We are just another lower table side in a relegation fight which basically includes the whole bottom half of the table. Our squad is just another bang average PL squad.

so, we are in the same ball park as Brighton and Bournemouth. someone like brendan Rogers (who I would have in a heart beat) would not achieve much more.

 

I do not agree what so ever. each to their own

[shurlock]

A bit late to the party with this thread.

 

Awful first 20 minutes, but great to see that reaction from the players. We showed some fantastic fluid play and scored 3 brilliant goals. Even better at 3-2 we didn't capitulate and continued to press; things we haven't been able to say for most part of the last 18 months. The highlights being the celebration for the third goal and the players reaction at the end, gives a sense of togetherness and fight that we haven't seen much of and gives me some hope for the future of this squad.

 

Lemina and JWP the absolute star players for me, surely Lemina should start every game from now on. Stephens may have a few errors in his system but I hope we persist with him, as his strength and experience increases I think we will reap the benefits of giving him game time now, what a header too! Also Carillo looked the part.

 

Finally I know it was a special day for West Brom, but I have to say that was up there with last years semi-final with the best atmosphere I have experienced at any ground (from both home and away supporters), really puts a perspective on the likes of Anfield that the media cream themselves over. Also given the importance of the game for both sides and the way it played out found it a thoroughly moving, exhilarating, enjoyable and friendly experience! For the sake of their support I hope they make it, just not at our expense!!

 

Obviously yesterday was a special day.

 

Still have never liked WBA fans, whether it’s the skates love-in back in 2005, some aggro I had there in 2008 when they secured promotion and their fans decided to give it the big one and their general contribution to the gamesmanship and c**tishness under Pulis. Won’t shed any tears if they go down.

[derry]

I think if you look at the Hagazi goal and the Stephens goal and indeed a few others yesterday and every week at set pieces there is a common denominator. If the man marking player can't see the ball because his positioning is faulty and he is setting out to stop a player there are only two things he can do. Firstly set up to attack the ball and beat their mark and anybody else to it or blocking the opponent. to do that the defender has to ignore the ball and physically put himself in front of the opponent. The latter is what Stephens was trying to do however he made a mistake, instead of watching his opponent he looked away to see where the ball was coming from and in that instant Hagazi who could see the ball got away from him and left him for dead. Stephens did the same to him for his goal in similar circumstances.

 

If you are going to stop an opponent from getting by then you cannot look away if you have positioned yourself without a view of the ball. That also happened in several other matches yesterday and happens regularly.

[mrfahaji]

It was Hoedt that took the ball from Boufal btw. Stephens was calming Boufal down afterwards. Fair play to Hoedt.

 

I've seen a fair bit of Hoedt showing good leadership skills. He seems to do a lot of talking/shouting/telling in the backline too.

 

Of course, other people could just see that as having a moan at his teammates, but it tends to look like more 'constructive' criticism to me.

 

My main hope with Pellegrino is that eventually the right team selection and right tactics will dawn on him. Should have happened a long time ago, but in the same way that he eventually stopped playing Redmond and Forster and has clearly realised this was for the best, perhaps he can do the same with other factors, like playing Lemina.

[derry]

Cedric did an amazing cross though which long should have buried! & several other good ones, don't get your criticism?

 

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Our coaching appears to be based on the theory you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It is a fundamental fact when attacking a cross in front of goal, head the ****ing ball down. How many times when a ball comes in it gets headed high even though the player was over the ball. Long missed yesterday because he didn't head it down and back across the goal. It needs to be picked up on and everybody with that sort of header heads it down. We will get more goals than trying to head into the top corners.

[SW5 SAINT]

He has a point though. The manager can take the blame for a lot (and rightly so) but some of the players are just as much fault for our position (but seem to get away with it because its all the managers fault) but no manager coaches CFs to spurn chance after chance, or tells CBs to constantly get out jumped by opposition players or tells an England international goal keeper to stay rooted to his line (**** knows how many points Forster has cost us this season). I couldn't care less if MoPe ****s off tomorrow but a new manager is unlikely to make the likes of Jack Stephens better in the air or Shane Long more clinical in front of goal.

 

The problems we are in now are combination of different things all coming together in a perfect **** storm this season.

 

C'mon, if Pep Guardiola was in charge, don't you think think the players would be performing a little bit better.......

[Faz]

Our coaching appears to be based on the theory you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It is a fundamental fact when attacking a cross in front of goal, head the ****ing ball down. How many times when a ball comes in it gets headed high even though the player was over the ball. Long missed yesterday because he didn't head it down and back across the goal. It needs to be picked up on and everybody with that sort of header heads it down. We will get more goals than trying to head into the top corners.

 

Whilst coaching is clearly important, if you have to coach that in to a 31 year old premier league footballer, he is not a premier league footballer. I dare say we were all "coached" to do that as school boys.

 

At this level, you can't be coaching basic skills in to players.

[saint1977]

Loved the courage yesterday, coming from one down and a poor start and then looking the more likely to get a fourth at 3-2. Sometimes attack, even on the counter, really is the best form of defence.

 

Romeu finding form, Lemina best player on the pitch and another good display and goal for JWP. Full backs did well, centre backs more mixed and Stephens has to improve in the air. Key stop by McCarthy at 1-0 which Fraser wouldn’t have saved. Happy coming off his line as well. Carrillo was decent I thought and created space for the midfield to join up. Pathetic miss from Long though which should have sealed the win

[Chez]

for the overly defensive tactics

We parked the bus at City, which almost worked and he brought Yoshida on against Watford, which did work, but what other defensive tactics have been put in place? IMO his tactics are not overly defensive, we are just not very good at creating and taking chances.

[Chez]

 

My main hope with Pellegrino is that eventually the right team selection and right tactics will dawn on him. Should have happened a long time ago, but in the same way that he eventually stopped playing Redmond and Forster and has clearly realised this was for the best, perhaps he can do the same with other factors, like playing Lemina.

Learning from mistakes is good. How long did it take Koeman to get the right side in the second season?

[Simon3737]

I accidentally posted this on the wrong thread yesterday....

 

I think that’s the best we’ve played all season and the result flattered West Brom.

 

I reckon Mr Gao turned up in a Saints tracksuit at the dressing room this morning and picked that team.

 

There’s is nothing in Pellegrino’s Saints history to suggest he would of picked such a balanced and positive team.

 

I think Hojbjerg was very unlucky to be dropped but I’m not sure I’d have risked dropping Romeu instead to fit Lemina in (and I wouldn’t play all 3 together at the expense of an attacking player - except away to a top 6 team).

 

I think the 11 who started today plus Hojbjerg, Gabbiadini and Austin are the only players we should consider starting with when everyone is fit.

 

Let’s not get over-excited though. If we’d lost both West Brom games by 1 goal rather than winning them both, we’d swap places with them and be 20th on 20 points.

[Chez]

Cedric did an amazing cross though which long should have buried! & several other good ones, don't get your criticism?

 

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Cedric gets a pass on here, but he was ****ing terrible in the first half. Crossing and passing were very poor. You are spot on that a cross in the second half was top notch and should have been buried by Long, but that doesn't excuse some of the earlier ****. We need more from Cedric.

[Chez]

 

I reckon Mr Gao turned up in a Saints tracksuit at the dressing room this morning and picked that team.

 

There’s is nothing in Pellegrino’s Saints history to suggest he would of picked such a balanced and positive team.

 

this is tongue in cheek right? Pellegrino gets a win and you credit it to Gao? If we lose next week will that side be selected by MPs? Sorry, sarcasm and sublety is becoming hard to spot in this pit of disspair

[The Cat]

We parked the bus at City, which almost worked and he brought Yoshida on against Watford, which did work, but what other defensive tactics have been put in place? IMO his tactics are not overly defensive, we are just not very good at creating and taking chances.

 

I noticed yesterday in the final 5-10 minutes when West Brom were pushing for an equaliser that Pellegrino was urging our players to move forward and not sit back.

[Micky]

A bit late to the party with this thread.

 

Awful first 20 minutes, but great to see that reaction from the players. We showed some fantastic fluid play and scored 3 brilliant goals. Even better at 3-2 we didn't capitulate and continued to press; things we haven't been able to say for most part of the last 18 months. The highlights being the celebration for the third goal and the players reaction at the end, gives a sense of togetherness and fight that we haven't seen much of and gives me some hope for the future of this squad.

 

Lemina and JWP the absolute star players for me, surely Lemina should start every game from now on. Stephens may have a few errors in his system but I hope we persist with him, as his strength and experience increases I think we will reap the benefits of giving him game time now, what a header too! Also Carillo looked the part.

 

Finally I know it was a special day for West Brom, but I have to say that was up there with last years semi-final with the best atmosphere I have experienced at any ground (from both home and away supporters), really puts a perspective on the likes of Anfield that the media cream themselves over. Also given the importance of the game for both sides and the way it played out found it a thoroughly moving, exhilarating, enjoyable and friendly experience! For the sake of their support I hope they make it, just not at our expense!!

 

Have to agree, very special day yesterday. Thought West Brom did an excellent job of the commemorations for Cyrille Regis, don't mind admitting I shed a tear or two during the scarf tribute, very moving.

 

Was really worried after the first 15 when we were one down and it seemed quite a few players were having a pop at each other, but as the first half wore on we seemed to settle into it. From where we were in the away end, right behind the goal, you knew that all of the other end were thinking 'oh sh it', while we were thinking 'oh yeah ' as Lemina struck his, there was only going to be one outcome.

 

Three minutes later when we took the lead it was pandemonium and I would just like to take this opportunity to apologise to the guy that I accidentally forearm smashed in the face during the celebrations...!

 

After the break, I was relieved that we didn't try to sit on the lead and continued on the front foot, thought we all looked confident with the ball, which is probably why Boufal fancied his chances with the free kick. Some will say that the keeper should have saved it, maybe so but it was still a decent strike from JWP (my Lord JWP, ooohhh Lord JWP).

 

Can't really knock anything that the manager did yesterday, although Shane missed his header (from where I was it looked like he was just stretching back a little), he really is what you want in the last 10 when you need somebody to run the channels and get you out when your penned in.

 

Personally thought the fans were excellent yesterday, and judging by the players reaction at the end I think they certainly felt the same, was good to see quite a few gave their shirts away at the final whistle. Shouted/ sung myself hoarse yesterday, which is pretty much the sign of a good away day.

 

 

 

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[Faz]

We parked the bus at City, which almost worked and he brought Yoshida on against Watford, which did work, but what other defensive tactics have been put in place? IMO his tactics are not overly defensive, we are just not very good at creating and taking chances.

 

I think we create plenty, we're not very good at taking them as exemplified by Long yesterday. We are third in the "hitting the woodwork" league (a stupid thing I know). But a couple of those going in, and that ridiculous goal for Watford ruled out, and we are comfortably top half.

 

The way we play the ball from back to front is excellent at times. Oh, for a ruthless striker......

[Dangermouth]

Our coaching appears to be based on the theory you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It is a fundamental fact when attacking a cross in front of goal, head the ****ing ball down. How many times when a ball comes in it gets headed high even though the player was over the ball. Long missed yesterday because he didn't head it down and back across the goal. It needs to be picked up on and everybody with that sort of header heads it down. We will get more goals than trying to head into the top corners.

 

Yeah, but isn't that coaching for 5 year olds? Surely everyone knows to do that in those situations? Maybe SL was trying to do something different, or wasn't able to, or ... mind you; I've seen their pre-match shooting practice, so maybe not.

[skintsaint]

I noticed yesterday in the final 5-10 minutes when West Brom were pushing for an equaliser that Pellegrino was urging our players to move forward and not sit back.

 

Worked well, for all of WBA's long balling to the big lads they didn't fashion a decent chance.

[Whitey Grandad]

I think if you look at the Hagazi goal and the Stephens goal and indeed a few others yesterday and every week at set pieces there is a common denominator. If the man marking player can't see the ball because his positioning is faulty and he is setting out to stop a player there are only two things he can do. Firstly set up to attack the ball and beat their mark and anybody else to it or blocking the opponent. to do that the defender has to ignore the ball and physically put himself in front of the opponent. The latter is what Stephens was trying to do however he made a mistake, instead of watching his opponent he looked away to see where the ball was coming from and in that instant Hagazi who could see the ball got away from him and left him for dead. Stephens did the same to him for his goal in similar circumstances.

 

If you are going to stop an opponent from getting by then you cannot look away if you have positioned yourself without a view of the ball. That also happened in several other matches yesterday and happens regularly.

This is why you see a lot of what appears to be short-tugging. The defender watches the ball but also gets a grip on the attacker's shirt so that he can feel which way the player is going to move. Sometimes they forget to let go and give away a foul.

[The Cat]

Worked well, for all of WBA's long balling to the big lads they didn't fashion a decent chance.

 

Yep. Bloke I know who listened to the game asked me earlier if I was worried in the last 10 minutes when West Brom were "all over us". I told him they weren't and didn't create any good chances whereas we should have scored another.

 

Pellegrino must have now learnt that his previous tactic of trying to sit back and hold a lead against teams of similar quality doesn't work, or is at best very risky. Hopefully this more positive style will continue.

[Faz]

Yep. Bloke I know who listened to the game asked me earlier if I was worried in the last 10 minutes when West Brom were "all over us". I told him they weren't and didn't create any good chances whereas we should have scored another.

 

Pellegrino must have now learnt that his previous tactic of trying to sit back and hold a lead against teams of similar quality doesn't work, or is at best very risky. Hopefully this more positive style will continue.

 

You see, I"m not sure it is Pellegrino's tactic. I think the players have endured a pretty poor 18 months, and react that way by default. Fear at work.It takes strong leadership on the field to pull the team up the pitch, but easier said than done in the heat of battle.

[alpine_saint]

In the highlights I saw there was a fight amongst our players as to who took the free kick for our third goal. Stephens (?) snatched the ball from Boutal and gave it to JWP.

 

We dont need that sort of thing going on. But Boufal strikes me as childish and selfish.

[S-Clarke]

In the highlights I saw there was a fight amongst our players as to who took the free kick for our third goal. Stephens (?) snatched the ball from Boutal and gave it to JWP.

 

We dont need that sort of thing going on. But Boufal strikes me as childish and selfish.

 

I wouldn't call it a fight, it was a disagreement. Hoedt forced the ball out of his hands and gave it to JWP, the rest of our side cooled down Boufal and he was the first player to then congratulate JWP. Nothing to see here.

[Saint Pete]

In the highlights I saw there was a fight amongst our players as to who took the free kick for our third goal. Stephens (?) snatched the ball from Boutal and gave it to JWP.

 

We dont need that sort of thing going on. But Boufal strikes me as childish and selfish.

 

Don’t mind seeing a bit of that personally, within reason. It’s good that several of them are confident enough to step up and take responsibility and also that the other players sorted it out. Also Boufal was first to celebrate with JWP so no problem.

[InvictaSaint]

I wouldn't call it a fight, it was a disagreement. Hoedt forced the ball out of his hands and gave it to JWP, the rest of our side cooled down Boufal and he was the first player to then congratulate JWP. Nothing to see here.

 

Agree. It was also noticeable that Hoedt - in a very captain-like manner - simply took the ball, gave it to JWP and said “Prowsey”, pointing to where the ball was to be placed. Good, firm, calm authoritative leadership which completely cooled and resolved the minor issue with Boufal.

[View From The Top]

With regards to Long's header, from where I was in the stand it looked at the time as if he was really stretching for it.

 

I've yet to see the offside decision when Tadic flicked in through and Long was hauled down as that must of been marginal at best. Ref was just about to point to the spot and then obviously heard the offside shout from the linesman.

[Suhari]

Don’t mind seeing a bit of that personally, within reason. It’s good that several of them are confident enough to step up and take responsibility and also that the other players sorted it out. Also Boufal was first to celebrate with JWP so no problem.

 

Was pleased to see that level of passion and drive, which I think is all it was. We need it.

 

I remember in our relegation season Crouch (I think) go involved in a tussle with a couple of opposition players, and a few more of theirs rushed to join in.....our players just stood and watched.

[stockportsaint]

Cedric: 6 - worked the line up and down all day long. Can't cross to save his life.

 

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Apart from the cross straight onto Long's head that Shane failed to bury towards the end?

[hackedoff]

Just two negatives for me.

1 It takes 3 goals + for us to have a chance to win games and

2 None of these are coming from any of the strikers.

[Graffito]

Apart from the cross straight onto Long's head that Shane failed to bury towards the end?

 

It was the only decent cross of several he made, as I recall. He gets into positions to cross well enough but in contrast to Bertrand who fizzes in early and accurate crosses (e.g for Carrillo) Cedric’s are all too often a bit limp and aimless. I noticed in the second half he didn’t look up before crossing even although he had time to do so. We attacked down the left flank where we were more incisive, more in the second half than in the first, when Cedric had the bulk of the opportunities to cross but didn’t capitalise. Nonetheless I still want to see both our fullbacks getting forward as much as possible, especially now we have presence in the box with Carrillo. I believe it’s key to winning matches.

[Graffito]

I noticed yesterday in the final 5-10 minutes when West Brom were pushing for an equaliser that Pellegrino was urging our players to move forward and not sit back.

 

Yes he did that. Does make you wonder doesn’t it? I mean, we sat back under Puel in matches towards the latter part of last season. Just saying.

[doddisalegend]

We parked the bus at City, which almost worked and he brought Yoshida on against Watford, which did work, but what other defensive tactics have been put in place? IMO his tactics are not overly defensive, we are just not very good at creating and taking chances.

 

yes a good point. For a team that is supposedly being coached to be ultra defensive by the manager we let in an awful lot of goals.

[Appy]

In the highlights I saw there was a fight amongst our players as to who took the free kick for our third goal. Stephens (?) snatched the ball from Boutal and gave it to JWP.

 

We dont need that sort of thing going on. But Boufal strikes me as childish and selfish.

 

The childish bit was when he put his fingers to his lips at the saints fans.

[aintforever]

I like to see the players with a bit of fight and it’s good to have players wanting to take free kicks.

[Manuel]

The childish bit was when he put his fingers to his lips at the saints fans.

Was that because of the anti-Pellegrino chants?

[View From The Top]

Was that because of the anti-Pellegrino chants?

 

No.

[The Cat]

Was that because of the anti-Pellegrino chants?

 

Because he wanted to take the free kick and some fans shouted at him to let Ward Prowse have it.

[Manuel]

Oh, thanks.

 

Yeah he does seem petulant at times but it was nice to see him be the first to congratulate Prowse after he scored.

[LeBizzier69]

In any other sport (especially rugby), Boufal's behaviour would never happen because of the discipline and respect to players and their roles. Can you imagine a squabble in a rugby international over who takes conversions/penalties etc?? I can't see how his behaviour shows any passion at all, it's just petulance and playground stuff. Sets no example to kids at all, but then football doesn't generally anyway. Good to see him be first over, but really shouldn't happen in the first place.

[DuncanRG]

And we should note that he applauded the fans several times after the talking to from Hoedt.

[LeBizzier69]

And we should note that he applauded the fans several times after the talking to from Hoedt.

 

Absolutely and the respect thing in the game is a much wider issue not for this thread.

[Chez]

In the highlights I saw there was a fight amongst our players as to who took the free kick for our third goal. Stephens (?) snatched the ball from Boutal and gave it to JWP.

 

We dont need that sort of thing going on. But Boufal strikes me as childish and selfish.

 

we do need players with a desire to get on the ball and make things happen. Boufal wants the ball, wants the free kicks, wants to get the goals, doesn't hide and when JWP scored was the first to run over and celebrate with JWP.

Edited 4 February, 2018 by Chez

[aintforever]

In any other sport (especially rugby), Boufal's behaviour would never happen because of the discipline and respect to players and their roles. Can you imagine a squabble in a rugby international over who takes conversions/penalties etc?? I can't see how his behaviour shows any passion at all, it's just petulance and playground stuff. Sets no example to kids at all, but then football doesn't generally anyway. Good to see him be first over, but really shouldn't happen in the first place.

 

No petulance in rugby, just eye gouging, punching and stamping on heads. Respect.

[Manuel]

Can't imagine anyone fighting to kick a ball that shape.

[CB Fry]

In any other sport (especially rugby), Boufal's behaviour would never happen because of the discipline and respect to players and their roles. Can you imagine a squabble in a rugby international over who takes conversions/penalties etc?? I can't see how his behaviour shows any passion at all, it's just petulance and playground stuff. Sets no example to kids at all, but then football doesn't generally anyway. Good to see him be first over, but really shouldn't happen in the first place.

I can imagine rugby players passing blood capsules around to fake injuries in order to cheat during matches. I can imagine that really rather easily.

[LeBizzier69]

I can imagine rugby players passing blood capsules around to fake injuries in order to cheat during matches. I can imagine that really rather easily.

 

What a great counter argument that is.