Silva sacked at Watford

[Greedyfly]

On the other hand Blackmore probably knows more about the situation than you or SKD

Or he doesn't, you're no more qualified to make that assessment than him. I was passing on what I had heard, I suspect in the same way Blackmore was. He's far from being a club informant.

Edited 22 January, 2018 by Greedyfly

[SKD]

On the other hand Blackmore probably knows more about the situation than you or SKD

 

It's not come from me, it's come from someone probably (definitely) knows more than Blackmore....

 

I'm telling you, we did not pick MP ahead of Silva.

[shurlock]

It's not come from me, it's come from someone probably (definitely) knows more than Blackmore....

 

I'm telling you, we did not pick MP ahead of Silva.

 

You know someone at the club?

[aintforever]

It is bullsh*t, I can assure you.

 

We spoke to Silva early doors in the summer (I know at least 1 board member wanted him), but the club decided that Tuchel was the better option (we put all our eggs in the Tuchel basket).

 

Silva didn't want to wait around (can't blame him) and decided to go to Watford.

 

MP wasn't our first, second or probably even 3rd choice - it was a case of having MP or FDB (who the club had ruled out the previous summer).

 

If that was the case then I would get him in ASAP, his CV is way better than Pelligrinos. We played well yesterday but we are still in the bottom three after over half of the season gone.

[doddisalegend]

It is bullsh*t, I can assure you.

 

We spoke to Silva early doors in the summer (I know at least 1 board member wanted him), but the club decided that Tuchel was the better option (we put all our eggs in the Tuchel basket).

 

Silva didn't want to wait around (can't blame him) and decided to go to Watford.

 

MP wasn't our first, second or probably even 3rd choice - it was a case of having MP or FDB (who the club had ruled out the previous summer).

 

can we assume though that had he come here and started the season well he would have ****ed us over for Everton after 10 games....probably a lucky escape then.

[ozzmeister]

I don't know why we didn't go for the new Watford manager (Garcia). He was available last summer and fits very well into our appointments in a sense that he did very well (for three seasons) at Malaga with next to no budget.

[John B]

It's not come from me, it's come from someone probably (definitely) knows more than Blackmore....

 

I'm telling you, we did not pick MP ahead of Silva.

 

How do you know he knows more than Blackmore and what he says is true

[Saint Albert]

It is bullsh*t, I can assure you.

 

We spoke to Silva early doors in the summer (I know at least 1 board member wanted him), but the club decided that Tuchel was the better option (we put all our eggs in the Tuchel basket).

 

Silva didn't want to wait around (can't blame him) and decided to go to Watford.

 

MP wasn't our first, second or probably even 3rd choice - it was a case of having MP or FDB (who the club had ruled out the previous summer).

 

I think that the timelines match up with this...didn’t Watford hire Silva before Puel was fired?

[hypochondriac]

How do you know he knows more than Blackmore and what he says is true

Is it that difficult for you to imagine someone who would know more about the situation than Blackmore? He probably means someone like that.

[aintforever]

I think that the timelines match up with this...didn’t Watford hire Silva before Puel was fired?

 

Yes, Watford hired Silva just days after the end of the season.

 

In true Saints style, we floundered around waiting for weeks before bothering to do anything about Puel. Then ****ed about a bit for 10 days or so before hiring Pelligrino.

[Crab Lungs]

What SKD is spot on.

[St_Tel49]

If we had appointed Silva, would he have tried to jump ship to Everton like he tried to from Watford after a mere 9 games? I don't mourn our missing out on him that much.

[Baird of the land]

It is bullsh*t, I can assure you.

 

We spoke to Silva early doors in the summer (I know at least 1 board member wanted him), but the club decided that Tuchel was the better option (we put all our eggs in the Tuchel basket).

 

Silva didn't want to wait around (can't blame him) and decided to go to Watford.

 

MP wasn't our first, second or probably even 3rd choice - it was a case of having MP or FDB (who the club had ruled out the previous summer).

 

Having the ambition to go after Tuchel(if true) isn't something i would have a go at the board for.

[Saint IQ]

Just looked at the table and we've conceded 9 fewer than Watford and if we win our next two we should be above them in the table.

[ericb]

Yes, Watford hired Silva just days after the end of the season.

 

In true Saints style, we floundered around waiting for weeks before bothering to do anything about Puel. Then ****ed about a bit for 10 days or so before hiring Pelligrino.

 

We didn't flounder at all, we spoke to Silva at least two weeks before the end of the season and to his representatives before that. We just took a gamble on someone else and it went wrong leaving us in a hole.

[Heisenberg]

can we assume though that had he come here and started the season well he would have ****ed us over for Everton after 10 games....probably a lucky escape then.

 

Lucky escape? We are 18th!

 

Thought it was better to have loved and lost rather than never loved at all?

 

Watford are similar to us, we are a trial for the next level - aka clubs with genuine ambition.

 

If you hire talent on that proviso you can't then get upset if the audition goes too well.

 

Watford’s response to losing a manager who 'wasn't loyal' is to hire a manager whose had 10 clubs in 10 years......

[Wade Garrett]

Having the ambition to go after Tuchel(if true) isn't something i would have a go at the board for.

 

Leave it out, it's the equivalent of spending all of January trying to sign Harry Kane from Spurs.

[Cartman]

Timeline doesn't mean anything. We, like Watford, keep the current guy in place until a replacement is locked in instead of the traditional Everton/Stoke approach of sacking and then desperately looking for a successor, Puel was done at the end of the season and for all we know Pellegrino might be too, just because we haven't sacked him yet doesn't mean we haven't already decided to do so. I don't see why we wouldn't have rejected Marco Silva in the summer, what happened at Watford is not out of character, he has previous for this at Sporting and Olympiacos. He might actually be a more attractive proposition now if this latest episode has knocked his attitude down a peg.

[Topcat]

Just looked at the table and we've conceded 9 fewer than Watford and if we win our next two we should be above them in the table.

 

It is only 10 months since we last won two in a row. No problem.

[Ultimatt]

can we assume though that had he come here and started the season well he would have ****ed us over for Everton after 10 games....probably a lucky escape then.

 

More compensation from Everton. A lucky escape or a Les Reed wet dream?

[aintforever]

We didn't flounder at all, we spoke to Silva at least two weeks before the end of the season and to his representatives before that. We just took a gamble on someone else and it went wrong leaving us in a hole.

 

Sounds like floundering to me. Get your target nailed down, then sack your manager, appoint the next day - it’s not rocket science. Other clubs manage to do it, Cortese managed to do it.

[Cartman]

Sounds like floundering to me. Get your target nailed down, then sack your manager, appoint the next day - it’s not rocket science. Other clubs manage to do it, Cortese managed to do it.

 

We don't know when the decision to sack Adkins was taken, could have been months before he was actually sacked. We may have decided to sack Puel before the season ended but only made it official once Pellegrino was secured. We may have already decided to sack Pellegrino and are waiting on the new guy, or not. Everton and Stoke are examples of clubs left floundering when they sack a coach without much of a plan regarding who to hire. We might not always get the right appointment but we, like Watford, certainly don't flounder.

[aintforever]

We don't know when the decision to sack Adkins was taken, could have been months before he was actually sacked. We may have decided to sack Puel before the season ended but only made it official once Pellegrino was secured. We may have already decided to sack Pellegrino and are waiting on the new guy, or not. Everton and Stoke are examples of clubs left floundering when they sack a coach without much of a plan regarding who to hire. We might not always get the right appointment but we, like Watford, certainly don't flounder.

 

That’s ********, we wasted over a month in the summer and ended up with someone 3rd or 4th on the list - after sacking a manager we didn’t have to sack. Shambles.

[Saint Albert]

We don't know when the decision to sack Adkins was taken, could have been months before he was actually sacked. We may have decided to sack Puel before the season ended but only made it official once Pellegrino was secured. We may have already decided to sack Pellegrino and are waiting on the new guy, or not. Everton and Stoke are examples of clubs left floundering when they sack a coach without much of a plan regarding who to hire. We might not always get the right appointment but we, like Watford, certainly don't flounder.

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

It is immaterial exactly when Cortese decided to fire Adkins, although the fact he had Poch lined up means it was not a snap decision and was the result of some planning. Adkins was fired on a Friday after a midweek draw away to Chelsea. Poch was hired immediately in time to manage the team against Everton the following Monday. That is all that matters.

 

Puel was fired on June 14, and Pellegrino was hired on June 23. This is inconsistent with waiting to fire Puel until Pellegrino was secured, and is more consistent with bad planning, or not managing to secure preferred targets as SKD says.

 

I certainly hope Les & Co have learned from the past and have someone lined up if / when they decide to fire Pellegrino.

[Cartman]

That’s ********, we wasted over a month in the summer and ended up with someone 3rd or 4th on the list - after sacking a manager we didn’t have to sack. Shambles.

 

We wasted a month? How would you know that? Because we didn't sack Puel straight away before we had a replacement? 3rd or 4th is quite high up the list if the likes of Tuchel are at the top, or would you prefer we aim low just so we can say we got our first choice? And no, we didn't have to sack him, but go back in time and tell that to the simpletons we have for fans, that's what you get for playing to the crowd.

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

It is immaterial exactly when Cortese decided to fire Adkins, although the fact he had Poch lined up means it was not a snap decision and was the result of some planning. Adkins was fired on a Friday after a midweek draw away to Chelsea. Poch was hired immediately in time to manage the team against Everton the following Monday. That is all that matters.

 

Puel was fired on June 14, and Pellegrino was hired on June 23. This is inconsistent with waiting to fire Puel until Pellegrino was secured, and is more consistent with bad planning, or not managing to secure preferred targets as SKD says.

 

I certainly hope Les & Co have learned from the past and have someone lined up if / when they decide to fire Pellegrino.

 

It wasn't during the season, the players were on holiday, we didn't need to have anyone in place immediately to take charge of training or games, we just needed to know we had a successor when we fired Puel. Alavés' season finished on May 27, 18 days before Puel was fired, is it not likely that it was during those 18 days that everything was agreed between Pellegrino and the club instead of the 9 days between Puel's sacking and the official announcement? If we had official matches scheduled at that time we would simply have sacked Puel on June 23. Just because Pellegrino isn't the right man doesn't mean there was any dithering, he was high on Sevilla's list, he will have been quite high on ours too, other than Tuchel we don't know of anyone placed above him.

[tajjuk]

Pellegrino clearly wasn't our first choice, I'd hazard a guess that Silva was higher on the list but didn't want to wait around. We have been handed an opportunity, hopefully we will take it.

 

Plus it would wind up the Everton fans. Richer than them and nab their top manager target after they poached Koeman of us.

 

It would hardly be harsh on Pellegrino either, he has had a chance, longer than what 6 or 7 other managers have had this season, some of whom who have done better than him with less.

 

Get Silva in, get him on a 3 year contract, get some signings in and build from there. He's likely to have been burnt a little bit from what happened at Watford with Everton and needs to re-build his reputation and stay somewhere for a few years anyway.

[austsaint]

Pellegrino clearly wasn't our first choice, I'd hazard a guess that Silva was higher on the list but didn't want to wait around. We have been handed an opportunity, hopefully we will take it.

 

Plus it would wind up the Everton fans. Richer than them and nab their top manager target after they poached Koeman of us.

 

It would hardly be harsh on Pellegrino either, he has had a chance, longer than what 6 or 7 other managers have had this season, some of whom who have done better than him with less.

 

Get Silva in, get him on a 3 year contract, get some signings in and build from there. He's likely to have been burnt a little bit from what happened at Watford with Everton and needs to re-build his reputation and stay somewhere for a few years anyway.

 

This is what should happen in the next 48 hours - provided Silva wants the job. Chances of it happening? Remote.

[doddisalegend]

Pellegrino clearly wasn't our first choice, I'd hazard a guess that Silva was higher on the list but didn't want to wait around. We have been handed an opportunity, hopefully we will take it.

 

Plus it would wind up the Everton fans. Richer than them and nab their top manager target after they poached Koeman of us.

 

It would hardly be harsh on Pellegrino either, he has had a chance, longer than what 6 or 7 other managers have had this season, some of whom who have done better than him with less.

 

Get Silva in, get him on a 3 year contract, get some signings in and build from there. He's likely to have been burnt a little bit from what happened at Watford with Everton and needs to re-build his reputation and stay somewhere for a few years anyway.

 

 

It's only an opportunity if Silva actually wants the saints job though. Everyone keeps talking like he'd be desperate to take on a struggling side.

[tajjuk]

It's only an opportunity if Silva actually wants the saints job though. Everyone keeps talking like he'd be desperate to take on a struggling side.

 

There is a chance he wouldn't, but he took the Hull job and they were far worse off.

 

I mean there are 6 points between bottom and 10th, half the Premier league currently counts as 'struggling' at the moment.

 

If he wants a new Premier League job we are probably the best option he will have a for a while. Plus it's an easy win for him, either he gets our underperforming squad to perform better and steers us to saftey or we go down and people will just say well they were 18th and in bad form when he took over.

[trousers]

...

Edited 23 January, 2018 by trousers
put in the 'New Manager' thread instead

[egg]

Putting aside the debate about whether he's better than we have, why would Silva take a job here and in doing so:

 

a) take a hit on his severance package with Watford (that will be the case if he finds work quickly)?

 

b) walk into a job facing relegation?

 

If he has any sense he'll take Watford's money, lick his wounds, relax for a few months, then assess his options.

[SKD]

Sounds like floundering to me. Get your target nailed down, then sack your manager, appoint the next day - it’s not rocket science. Other clubs manage to do it, Cortese managed to do it.

 

Had Tuchel not become a realistic target, this probably would have been the case. The club took a gamble and it back fired, struggle to see how you can blame the board for that one. Had it paid off (which it looked likely it would for a fair bit of time), they would have been branded genius’.

 

As soon as the players turned on Puel, he was a dead man walking anyway.

[Heisenberg]

Had Tuchel not become a realistic target, this probably would have been the case. The club took a gamble and it back fired, struggle to see how you can blame the board for that one. Had it paid off (which it looked likely it would for a fair bit of time), they would have been branded genius’.

 

As soon as the players turned on Puel, he was a dead man walking anyway.

 

Would have probably taken 48 hours tops to get a "no thanks" from Tuchel.

 

We dilly dally on transfers, managers.... Pretty much everything we do is done at a slugs pace.

[Morse]

Panic appointment are rarely successful, and reports of Silva's attitude at Watford are troubling. It's a no from me.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Would have probably taken 48 hours tops to get a "no thanks" from Tuchel.

 

We dilly dally on transfers, managers.... Pretty much everything we do is done at a slugs pace.

 

You have no idea how long any negotiations take, none at all just like the rest of us.

Surely your not stupid enough to think that it`s easy........ OH!

[Hodgey]

So when Silva became Hull manager last January he up ended taking them down but with a record of 8 wins 3 draws and 11 losses - basically he couldn't undo the terrible starting position. If he could replicate that then we would be safe by some margin. There is certainly evidence that he hits teams running - his record overall is extremely good apart from Watford - but even that started with a bang. Seems a no brainer to me - can re-evaluate in the Summer - assuming he keeps us up (which on those facts looks likely) even if we decide to go a different direction in the summer both parties win....

[verlaine1979]

You have no idea how long any negotiations take, none at all just like the rest of us.

Surely your not stupid enough to think that it`s easy........ OH!

 

It's obvious that Tuchel was never a genuine option. No suggestion from anyone in the media that there were every any substantial talks - just about a week of embarrassing gossip that we wanted him, followed by a firm 'not interested' from his representatives.

[Heisenberg]

You have no idea how long any negotiations take, none at all just like the rest of us.

Surely your not stupid enough to think that it`s easy........ OH!

 

Hey Always,

 

You fancy being best mates?

 

If i dont hear back by 4pm (uk time) ill assume its a no.

 

Thats how its done, best mate. X

[aintforever]

The club took a gamble and it back fired, struggle to see how you can blame the board for that one.

 

The took an unnecessary gamble and it backfired - of course they are to blame.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Hey Always,

 

You fancy being best mates?

 

If i dont hear back by 4pm (uk time) ill assume its a no.

 

Thats how its done, best mate. X

 

This is an offer anyone would refuse in a heartbeat

[Toon Saint]

If we did get Silva in then maybe Jorge Mendes can give Ross and Les a bit of a hand in the transfer window as they seem to be struggling big time.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Tom & Gerry]

What if Silva is a Manager that starts brightly and then crashes whilst Pellegrino is the opposite?

[mrfahaji]

What if Silva is a Manager that starts brightly and then crashes whilst Pellegrino is the opposite?

 

That has crossed my mind. But how do you tell a late-developer from a non-developer? And how late is late? Too late?!

 

I'll answer my own question by saying that if you list the positives that we have seen from Pellegrino since he has been here the list isn't very long at all. That to me points to him not being up to it rather than things just not clicking yet.

[SKD]

What if Silva is a Manager that starts brightly and then crashes whilst Pellegrino is the opposite?

 

We stay up

[Saint Albert]

That has crossed my mind. But how do you tell a late-developer from a non-developer? And how late is late? Too late?!

 

I'll answer my own question by saying that if you list the positives that we have seen from Pellegrino since he has been here the list isn't very long at all. That to me points to him not being up to it rather than things just not clicking yet.

 

It probably says something that the players still seem to be fighting for Pellegrino, I suppose. I thought there was plenty of effort in the Spurs game, but then after a good performance the team has tended to lay a colossal egg such as Palace after Man U or Leicester after Arsenal, which is my concern for the important Brighton match.

 

He’s a nice fellow, the players seem to like him and play for him on occasion, but he has one premier league win in 11 games. He is very lucky to have patient employers.

[simo]

I'd have taken him at the start of the season but seeing the way Watford were heading I'd rather keep my eggs in this basket !

[LGTL]

It's a huge week coming up for Pellegrino. Make the 5th round, and take an absolute minimum of 4 points from 6 against Brighton and WBA then you never know. Clearly it would indicate the players are still on board even if the fan base aren't, myself included. FWIW, I think we'll only take 3 points from those two and it won't be enough.

[Saint Matty 76]

Even 4 points would be a disaster, if we don't win both he should go. Like he should've done weeks ago. Disgraceful manager and this list is only looking worse each week. Would've probably been better for us to get battered by Tottenham instead of the point buying him the Brighton and West Brom games, hope I'm wrong.

 

[DuncanRG]

Even 4 points would be a disaster

 

Why? If the point comes against Brighton I can see the problem because we need to build up some momentum at home, but winning at home and drawing away is always good for a struggling team.

[Pamplemousse]

If we beat Brighton, drawing at West Brom wouldn't be a bad result at all. Hopefully we'll go for the win in both matches, but I'd take four points right now.