Pilchards Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 A brilliant article which I have added on here rather than being on the transfers page. http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/11211280/southampton8217s-problems-where-has-it-gone-wrong-this-season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Pretty much sums it up.Have a feeling Sundays game will be Pellegrinos last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 18 January, 2018 Author Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Pretty much sums it up.Have a feeling Sundays game will be Pellegrinos last. No chance! Why would we let him bring in a player of his choice and sack him before he plays a game for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Not really a brilliant article, nowt wrong with what it says but seems to be missing a second part and some sort of conclusion. Needed to follow up about the downward spiral of the Academy, the dithering of the Board, the lack of anything from the new owners and a whole host of other issues. Instead the article just stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobes8 Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Seems that everyone else can acknowledge the problems at the club bar reed and Krueger. I just get a feeling that these two are struggling to keep their heads above water with failed transfer attempts and generally loosing the plot all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjk Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 No chance! Why would we let him bring in a player of his choice and sack him before he plays a game for us? They cant leave it much longer surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluto Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Pellegrino is totally out of his depth and we dont need the media to tell us this with added on side dishes. The remit following the players ousting Claude Puel was to get someone in better and as we know Pellegrino is far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren2 Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 For me the biggest thing I agree with is that too many players are on longer bumper contracts (I know, damned if you do, damned if you don't) and are happy to play them out. Long, Forster, Tadic etc have all dropped off form instead of putting in the effort they once were.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Even if the Spurs game is MoPe's last, its too late to stop us going down, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Pellegrino is totally out of his depth and we dont need the media to tell us this with added on side dishes. The remit following the players ousting Claude Puel was to get someone in better and as we know Pellegrino is far worse. In fairness to the board they thought they had, with Tuchel. However, I'd imagine it was down to money, that fell through. You can argue if it's right or wrong until the cows come home, but the club lack ambition and the owner(s) only want to make as much money, with a little investment, as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Basically it's like the whole club has become complacent and have stayed in their comfort zone. This is not the action of successful achievers. It also seems like the focus of Kruger and generally the Exec. Has gone from Premier League results to growing the off field business. The next two weeks are all about making the right decisions that secure our status socthat in the summer the major changes can happen in tbe board room. But I'm not holding my breath.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchards Posted 18 January, 2018 Author Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Even if the Spurs game is MoPe's last, its too late to stop us going down, imo. Totally disagree. Win your four big cup finals vs Brighton, WBA, Swansea and Newcastle then that should get you close to the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 One of the biggest mysteries of all - which that article picked up on - is why on gods earth was Fraser offered a new 5 year contract in the summer? Why was that needed? What had he done to deserve that? It was only a year on since his last 5 year renewal, so it's not like he was running down his contract and we needed to act. It's no wonder the levels have dropped if they know they don't have to play out of their skin to get an undeserved pay packet. That decision is still a total wtf in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Worth noting that the only criticism of Pellegrino is his rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Foreign owners are the problem with the Club It was great when Markhus was here as he seem genuinely interested in the club but since his death it appeared that Katharina just wanted to sell and would not invest in the club and I do not blame her in anyway for what she has done. Now we have a Chinese owner who we know little about and why he has bought the club but there are no signs he wants to invest to make it better. Reed is only an employee and trying to do the best he can under financial constraints that have been imposed although he made a serious error in getting rid of Puel. So if there are protests I think they should be aimed at Foreign owners who in most cases have done little to help similar sized clubs to us apart from Leicester to compete with the big City Clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Worth noting that the only criticism of Pellegrino is his rotation. Also a criticism of Puel. Maybe at this point we need to then look at the makeup and recruitment of the squad, and the fact that two managers have been chopping and changing the side in the hope of finding a formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintMB Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Foreign owners are the problem with the Club It was great when Markhus was here as he seem genuinely interested in the club but since his death it appeared that Katharina just wanted to sell and would not invest in the club and I do not blame her in anyway for what she has done. Now we have a Chinese owner who we know little about and why he has bought the club but there are no signs he wants to invest to make it better. Reed is only an employee and trying to do the best he can under financial constraints that have been imposed although he made a serious error in getting rid of Puel. So if there are protests I think they should be aimed at Foreign owners who in most cases have done little to help similar sized clubs to us apart from Leicester to compete with the big City Clubs That famous Southampton born, Blue-Blooded, British, ML yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Foreign owners are the problem with the Club It was great when Markhus was here Big fan of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 One of the biggest mysteries of all - which that article picked up on - is why on gods earth was Fraser offered a new 5 year contract in the summer? Why was that needed? What had he done to deserve that? It was only a year on since his last 5 year renewal, so it's not like he was running down his contract and we needed to act. It's no wonder the levels have dropped if they know they don't have to play out of their skin to get an undeserved pay packet. That decision is still a total wtf in my mind. Who is Forster's agent? Any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dellboypete Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Not a lot different to the recent articles in the Guardian, Telegraph, Times etc. One quote from Reed worried me a bit though... "We know what we are doing here," said the club's current vice-chairman Les Reed in 2014. "There was a five-year plan in 2009 when this club was in League One. We got out of there ahead of target. Then we got out of the Championship ahead of target. We are at the start of our next five-year plan now. There is no panic. We march on." The key difference for me is that the previous two 5 yr plans were built on a progressive club that was only going up (at the time) - my current view is that we are in a current phase of negative progress, so does his next 5 year plan look down to the championship and beyond? (only half joking btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 What's wrong at Southampton FC? Same as pretty much always, don't have a serial goalscorer who'll get you a goal out of nothing much and exactly when you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 The issue about the players still here, not the sold ones or the new ones is the most correct one. The guys who have been here a while are not in form and have been out of form or lacking near their best for a long time. Romeu, Betrand, JWP, Davis, Forster, Tadic, Redmond, etc. have all been average to bad for a long period, the best performances we have seen this year have come from newer players - Lemina, Hoedt etc. or players not always in the team and pushing for a place like Boufal or the youngsters. The rest IMO have been coasting and the manager seems clueless how to shake that up and doesn't seem to trust the other players to come in. And the bit about sitting back on leads. If we'd closed out games and killed off teams when we were playing better, we'd be top half easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 A brilliant article which I have added on here rather than being on the transfers page. http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/11211280/southampton8217s-problems-where-has-it-gone-wrong-this-season Systematic miss-management. Board have to go. Simple as that. Every element of the club is rotten except for the bank balance (and that will change if we go down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Not a lot different to the recent articles in the Guardian, Telegraph, Times etc. One quote from Reed worried me a bit though... "We know what we are doing here," said the club's current vice-chairman Les Reed in 2014. "There was a five-year plan in 2009 when this club was in League One. We got out of there ahead of target. Then we got out of the Championship ahead of target. We are at the start of our next five-year plan now. There is no panic. We march on." The key difference for me is that the previous two 5 yr plans were built on a progressive club that was only going up (at the time) - my current view is that we are in a current phase of negative progress, so does his next 5 year plan look down to the championship and beyond? (only half joking btw) The previous 5 year plan was devised and implemented before Les Reed Joined. The current five year plan is his brain child. See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 What's right at Southampton would have been a more suitable title. Even the junior teams are crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 I’m glad the article highlights how bad Cedric has been. I’d rather play Pied tbh. Look at the stats - Cedric 0 assists all season, Pied has played twice and already has an assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 "Southampton are on a 10-game winless run - the longest sequence in any of England's top four divisions." A damning statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 For me the biggest thing I agree with is that too many players are on longer bumper contracts (I know, damned if you do, damned if you don't) and are happy to play them out. Long, Forster, Tadic etc have all dropped off form instead of putting in the effort they once were....That's a key observation for me too. The irony is that the constant churn of players, to avoid contracts running down, has actually served us well since we returned to the premier league. The goal to have more players on longer term contracts has possibly backfired. The aim was to achieve stability but stability could actually be our enemy... For 'stability' read 'complacency'... (Cue the "told you so" brigade...) The previous churn of players actually keeps everyone on their toes (from the boardroom to the players) and keeps things fresh rather than stale. Les, Krueger and co obviously see stability as a good thing....but perhaps it was the 'instability' that was keeping us competitive all along...? (Caveat: just thinking out loud so I could be talking a load of old tosh ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 That's a key observation for me too. The irony is that the constant churn of players, to avoid contracts running down, has actually served us well since we returned to the premier league. The goal to have more players on longer term contracts has possibly backfired. The aim was to achieve stability but stability could actually be our enemy... For 'stability' read 'complacency'... (Cue the "told you so" brigade...) The previous churn of players actually keeps everyone on their toes (from the boardroom to the players) and keeps things fresh rather than stale. Les, Krueger and co obviously see stability as a good thing....but perhaps it was the 'instability' that was keeping us competitive all along...? (Caveat: just thinking out loud so I could be talking a load of old tosh ) We've changed manager two summers in a row, which is normally what keeps players on their toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 For me the biggest thing I agree with is that too many players are on longer bumper contracts (I know, damned if you do, damned if you don't) and are happy to play them out. Long, Forster, Tadic etc have all dropped off form instead of putting in the effort they once were.... With respect that is not the ‘biggest thing’ that is wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 We've changed manager two summers in a row, which is normally what keeps players on their toes.Yep, that does blow my theory out of the water somewhat. Must stop this thinking out loud malarkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Also a criticism of Puel. Maybe at this point we need to then look at the makeup and recruitment of the squad, and the fact that two managers have been chopping and changing the side in the hope of finding a formula. Not sure that stacks up. Pellegrino has radically changed the team on the back of thebodd good performance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonToo Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Yep, that does blow my theory out of the water somewhat. Not necessarily. Both MP and CP are/were probably the wrong personality types for the job. The black box parameters need a tweak or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Foreign owners are the problem with the Club It was great when Markhus was here as he seem genuinely interested in the club but since his death it appeared that Katharina just wanted to sell and would not invest in the club and I do not blame her in anyway for what she has done. She’s been pretty much a model owner since the day he died to the day she sold most of the club. Apart from that you’re right, give me a good old Brit like Mike Ashley or Rupert Lowe, they aren’t like these Johnny foreigners only interested in making money. All Brits are Jack Walkers aren’t they? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 I do wonder, in light of recent Jack Rodwell articles where he is still being paid £70k a week because his contract did not have some sort of relegation clause in it at Sunderland- Have these new contracts actually ruined us? Did we put relegation clauses in these new £70k-£90k bumper contracts that we bandied out in the past years? If we did not put clauses in the way Sunderland didn’t, is it any surprise that these players are not motivated to earn say a mere £30k more elsewhere, and again that if Saints do go down, we would be forced to flog on the cheap as we couldn’t pay those wages in the Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Decent article, virtually everything they point out screams "bad manager" Too many changes Points lost from winning positions Previously reliable players off form Players obviously not motivated/happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Who is Forster's agent? Any idea? Stellar Football I think https://www.transfermarkt.com/stellar-football-ltd/beraterfirma/berater/190 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Stellar Football I think https://www.transfermarkt.com/stellar-football-ltd/beraterfirma/berater/190 Ah, OK. Ta. Nothing to do with any of the alleged malarkey on here then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 This sort of article has got to make the Board/Owner squirm . Especially when they are used to seeing far more positive pieces from the likes of Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 It's a tremendous article. Also: In the still-picture of Pellegrino's post-Watford interview which is embedded in the article, he looks how I feel about us at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Pete Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 That's a key observation for me too. The irony is that the constant churn of players, to avoid contracts running down, has actually served us well since we returned to the premier league. The goal to have more players on longer term contracts has possibly backfired. The aim was to achieve stability but stability could actually be our enemy... For 'stability' read 'complacency'... (Cue the "told you so" brigade...) The previous churn of players actually keeps everyone on their toes (from the boardroom to the players) and keeps things fresh rather than stale. Les, Krueger and co obviously see stability as a good thing....but perhaps it was the 'instability' that was keeping us competitive all along...? (Caveat: just thinking out loud so I could be talking a load of old tosh ) I think where Saints have been complacent is in rewarding too many (at best) average players with longer contracts, which has helped cause a gradual degrading of the squad (along with worsening recruitment decisions to replace our better players who have left). Awarding your top players with contract extensions seems like a sensible move - but in last couple of years, we seem to have been dishing out longer contracts to players who were not even performing at their top level, who we ought to have been trying to improve on through recruitment. A classic example is Forster who had a pretty average last season and then inexplicably was given an even longer contract, when most of us were wondering whether the club would be looking to try and recruit an upgrade! Our choice of manager this season also obviously hasn't helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 I think where Saints have been complacent is in rewarding too many (at best) average players with longer contracts, which has helped cause a gradual degrading of the squad (along with worsening recruitment decisions to replace our better players who have left). Awarding your top players with contract extensions seems like a sensible move - but in last couple of years, we seem to have been dishing out longer contracts to players who were not even performing at their top level, who we ought to have been trying to improve on through recruitment. A classic example is Forster who had a pretty average last season and then inexplicably was given an even longer contract, when most of us were wondering whether the club would be looking to try and recruit an upgrade! Our choice of manager this season also obviously hasn't helped! Yep I agree. Forester's contract last summers stands out as an odd decision he was awful for large chunks of last season rewarding him with a new contract was bizarre. Players like Long and Davis we should have been looking to upgrade on as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Yep I agree. Forester's contract last summers stands out as an odd decision he was awful for large chunks of last season rewarding him with a new contract was bizarre. Players like Long and Davis we should have been looking to upgrade on as well. I assume his agent is not part of the same stable that Reed’s son works for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 I assume his agent is not part of the same stable that Reed’s son works for? No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 I assume his agent is not part of the same stable that Reed’s son works for? He is part of Stellar Group, nothing to do with what was dug up the other day. Same agents as Bale, Lallana etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon3737 Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 That famous Southampton born, Blue-Blooded, British, ML yeah? It’s a little known fact that Marcus was “the least foreign man ever” (as quoted by stable genius President Trump). Marcus started his engineering business by buying some electronic components from Tandy in East Street Shopping Centre and named his business MALI after the MAyflower park sLIdes that he took Kat to as a toddler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 It’s a little known fact that Marcus was “the least foreign man ever” (as quoted by stable genius President Trump). Marcus started his engineering business by buying some electronic components from Tandy in East Street Shopping Centre and named his business MALI after the MAyflower park sLIdes that he took Kat to as a toddler! This is true and, really, he only bought Saints in order to deliver the long-awaited Mayflower Park redevelopment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimatt Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 It's a bit rich to heavily criticise both our last managers for over rotation when our squad is "ready for europe" aka massively bloated. Easy to say "Pick your best XI each week" without realising how negative/frustrated the dressing room will be with a half dozen players demanding starts. On top of that, do any of us as fans know our best XI? Some think Gabbi should be #1, some think he's rightly #3. Pick 1 out of Yoshida/Stephens. Pick 2 out of Romeu/Lemina/Hojbjerg. Pick 1 out of Cedric/Pied. Pick 1 out of Davis/JWP. Pick 1 out of Forster/McCarthy. The only clear standout in his position is Bertrand. We've sold those top quality "first name on the sheet" players and not a single other player is a clear guaranteed pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Totally disagree. Win your four big cup finals vs Brighton, WBA, Swansea and Newcastle then that should get you close to the line. But we are not going to win all of those........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW5 SAINT Posted 18 January, 2018 Share Posted 18 January, 2018 Worth noting that the only criticism of Pellegrino is his rotation. Don't forget his substitutions........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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