Watford v Saints - Post Match Meltdown

[Shroppie]

Understand Yoshida was out injured; anyone know what the story was with Redmond?

No idea, but possibly the words pram and toys could be relevant? Or the new assistant first team coach?

 

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[Chez]

Although I was at the game I wasn't thinking of commenting as there are do many experts on here already.

 

But, in the cold light of day, and with anger slightly subsided, here goes.

 

Firstly, this was better. In the first half we expressed ourselves, got forward, scored two goals. Both by a player regularly derided on here as being negative, only passing backwards and not getting into goal-scoring positions.

 

Obviously the second half was very different, but not, as so many seem to be suggesting, because we changed tactics and decided, or were told, to fall back and defend. We didn't "invite them on". No. We tried to continue with the same tactics from the first half, which had worked because Watford weren't playing in a way that would stop us. The second half was different because Watford brought on strong, physical players, upped their tempo and played much more directly. Simply, we were bullied, and helped a lot by the ref.

 

But where I agree with others is that MP was too slow to counter their changes. Lemina for Davis was right, but maybe a bit late. He could have brought on another CB and sacrificed JWP or Tadic. That might have worked, but in his defence, if MP had done that, it would have been accepting that we were just going to park the bus and try to hold on.

 

In my very humble opinion, we defended very strongly against the onslaught. Hoedt and Cedric outstanding. Hojbjerg and Romeu good as well, but all did their bit. Accepting that Davis lost the ball for the first goal, but another view is that he was trying to get our passing game going again. We'd lost composure and were hoofing. The ball just kept coming back. It was right to try to play our way out.

 

I can also just about understand the other subs not being used earlier. We were beginning to weather the storm with the players on the pitch and having two time-wasting subs for added time would have been good.

 

And as for the handball goal - one of the worst bits of refereeing I've seen in a long time. The ref's whole body language suggested he wasn't going to be challenged or check with the assistant. Yellow out very quickly for Cedric. Why wasn't Bertrand more forceful? He has the right to be so, as captain. When the hell will football come out of the dark ages and catch up with pretty-well every other sport using video technology. These mistakes must be put right immediatey. No amount of retrospective action will get us two points back, and that could mean relegation - a cost of tens of millions.

 

And to say it didn't matter as we'd had a bad second half is utter rubbish. It made all the difference. If the goal hadn't stood, and we'd held out, I would have called it a great morale-boosting rearguard defensive display earning a critical three points. But now, because of cheating, it's the opposite. I'm gutted, and gutted for the team, who I thought we're brilliant today. Keep playing with that spirit and well stay up.

 

Despite the manager.

 

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Very interesting. I agree with much of this. It is a good balanced post. There wa a period between the goals when we were just hanging on where I'd like to have seen a sub, but like you not sure what that would have been other than another CB. MOPo would have been crucified if he did that. Edited 14 January, 2018 by Chez

[Chez]

Left at home for tactical reasons.

really? That's interesting. He been a focal point all week on social media with fans saying he needs to be backed.

[shurlock]

Left at home for tactical reasons.

 

Too many 93rd min attacking subs?

 

Seriously, though, I guess he lost his place to Sims?

[trousers]

As others have said, he was on a yellow. The way cards were being liberally dished out (to us, not them) he would probably have been sent off. Cedric got yellow.

 

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Isn't the captain allowed to 'confront' the referee without getting booked? Bertrand was the captain at the time and he wasn't a million miles away from the incident. IIRC he just stood there with his head in his hands after their second went in? Again, I'm not saying that haranguing the ref would have achieved anything but for the captain not to seemingly vent any anger just seems to epitomise the resigned attitude of the team as a whole in recent times. Hey ho.... It's only a game... Edited 14 January, 2018 by trousers

[Alain Perrin]

Although I was at the game I wasn't thinking of commenting as there are do many experts on here already.

 

But, in the cold light of day, and with anger slightly subsided, here goes.

 

Firstly, this was better. In the first half we expressed ourselves, got forward, scored two goals. Both by a player regularly derided on here as being negative, only passing backwards and not getting into goal-scoring positions.

 

Obviously the second half was very different, but not, as so many seem to be suggesting, because we changed tactics and decided, or were told, to fall back and defend. We didn't "invite them on". No. We tried to continue with the same tactics from the first half, which had worked because Watford weren't playing in a way that would stop us. The second half was different because Watford brought on strong, physical players, upped their tempo and played much more directly. Simply, we were bullied, and helped a lot by the ref.

 

But where I agree with others is that MP was too slow to counter their changes. Lemina for Davis was right, but maybe a bit late. He could have brought on another CB and sacrificed JWP or Tadic. That might have worked, but in his defence, if MP had done that, it would have been accepting that we were just going to park the bus and try to hold on.

 

In my very humble opinion, we defended very strongly against the onslaught. Hoedt and Cedric outstanding. Hojbjerg and Romeu good as well, but all did their bit. Accepting that Davis lost the ball for the first goal, but another view is that he was trying to get our passing game going again. We'd lost composure and were hoofing. The ball just kept coming back. It was right to try to play our way out.

 

I can also just about understand the other subs not being used earlier. We were beginning to weather the storm with the players on the pitch and having two time-wasting subs for added time would have been good.

 

And as for the handball goal - one of the worst bits of refereeing I've seen in a long time. The ref's whole body language suggested he wasn't going to be challenged or check with the assistant. Yellow out very quickly for Cedric. Why wasn't Bertrand more forceful? He has the right to be so, as captain. When the hell will football come out of the dark ages and catch up with pretty-well every other sport using video technology. These mistakes must be put right immediatey. No amount of retrospective action will get us two points back, and that could mean relegation - a cost of tens of millions.

 

And to say it didn't matter as we'd had a bad second half is utter rubbish. It made all the difference. If the goal hadn't stood, and we'd held out, I would have called it a great morale-boosting rearguard defensive display earning a critical three points. But now, because of cheating, it's the opposite. I'm gutted, and gutted for the team, who I thought we're brilliant today. Keep playing with that spirit and well stay up.

 

Despite the manager.

 

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I am copying this post because it deserves to be read instead of all the keyboard warrior BS.

[Saint-Fred]

Isn't the captain aloud to 'confront' the referee without getting booked? Bertrand was the captain at the time and he wasn't a million miles away from the incident. IIRC he just stood there with his head in his hands after their second went in? Again, I'm not saying that haranguing the ref would have achieved anything but for the captain not to seemingly vent any anger just seems to epitomise the resigned attitude of the team as a whole in recent times. Hey ho.... It's only a game...

 

Wasn't Bertrand directly behind him..I don't think he would have seen the handball?

[Forester]

True what you say, yet Pellegrino could have made changes to address the Watford tactical changes. He could have played 3 CBs bringing on Bednarek and replacing one of the attacking players who faded out of the game ie Tadic or Ward-Prowse; he could have shored up the midfield much earlier by replacing Davis with Lemina and keeping Romeu higher up the pitch and finally he could have brought on Boufal to give Watford something to think about as our attackers had put the cue in the rack 2nd half. Yes, Watford responded and showed greater desire and work rate, but our Manager could have acted much earlier.

An excellent post, and reflected the conversation we were having at the time. When Deeney and Okaka came on to go direct and we have a third centre back on the bench and our most gifted attacking player to capitalise on the extra space MP did nothing.

 

He seems a nice guy, sets us up well from the start and usually picks a lineup that reads sensibly. But he has a MASSIVE weakness in in-game management and at this level he gets outwitted by the quality of opposing managers. Examples over recent weeks include Wagner, Hodgson and Silva. Earlier in the season Dyche did the same

[trousers]

Wasn't Bertrand directly behind him..I don't think he would have seen the handball?

Fair point if that's the case. I just feel we're too 'nice' at times

[Shroppie]

Fair point if that's the case. I just feel we're too 'nice' at times

Indeed. Imagine the scenes if that "goal" had been scored against a top six team. Especially one of them.

 

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[Graffito]

Pellegrino, though, defended his decisions.

 

“When you decide to play direct maybe we did something normal to put Oriol in front of the back four,” said Pellegrino.

 

“We don’t have somebody else to press the centre back for example because Tadic plays a little bit deep.

 

“Why? Because in this aspect in the physical battle they are stronger than us and you have to do it.

 

“We have to manage the ball when we regain it. We gave it away and couldn’t be danger in counter attack when we have possibilities.

 

“I think most of the time we control well the direct balls and for this reason it was hard.”

 

It's logical. Maybe another tactic would have been to bring Gabbiadini and for him and Long to press their centre backs but that may not have worked either and would have left us light in midfield. Normally we try and keep the ball. It's a difficult one. Imo it's failing in the execution, or yesterday with the officials.

[Saints foreva]

Bertrand just standing still for both of the goals.

[shurlock]

Pellegrino, though, defended his decisions.

 

“When you decide to play direct maybe we did something normal to put Oriol in front of the back four,” said Pellegrino.

 

“We don’t have somebody else to press the centre back for example because Tadic plays a little bit deep.

 

“Why? Because in this aspect in the physical battle they are stronger than us and you have to do it.

 

“We have to manage the ball when we regain it. We gave it away and couldn’t be danger in counter attack when we have possibilities.

 

“I think most of the time we control well the direct balls and for this reason it was hard.”

 

It's logical. Maybe another tactic would have been to bring Gabbiadini and for him and Long to press their centre backs but that may not have worked either and would have left us light in midfield. Normally we try and keep the ball. It's a difficult one. Imo it's failing in the execution, or yesterday with the officials.

 

Long is arguably versatile and fit to press the CB and drop into midfield when needed - in much the same way Okazaki does for Leicester -and one reason why I think we could accommodate both him and Gabbi in the side without conceding too much space.

 

We should have brought Lemina on sooner. If the rest of the side is treating the football like a hot potato, at least, have someone who's brave enough on the ball to carry it forward. Thought Lemina calmed us down when he came on for precisely that reason.

[Cumbria Saint]

Although things look pretty bleak at present I'm not as downhearted as some here on the forum. We do have players capable of keeping us up and we have played some good stuff from time to time. A lucky, rather than unlucky, break somewhere along the line and confidence could well rebound.

 

The other factor that is now potentially an advantage to us is the small number of points separating over half the teams. Look at what a win for Bournemouth has done for their league position today. If yesterday's 'goal' had been disallowed we would have been almost mid table.

 

Keep the faith!

[S-Clarke]

Although things look pretty bleak at present I'm not as downhearted as some here on the forum. We do have players capable of keeping us up and we have played some good stuff from time to time. A lucky, rather than unlucky, break somewhere along the line and confidence could well rebound.

 

The other factor that is now potentially an advantage to us is the small number of points separating over half the teams. Look at what a win for Bournemouth has done for their league position today. If yesterday's 'goal' had been disallowed we would have been almost mid table.

 

Keep the faith!

 

We do have the players, there is no doubt about that, but the fact we haven't beaten Swansea, Palace, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Brighton, Watford, Newcastle, Stoke, Leicester says it all for me. Our start of the season was relatively straight forward, but we ****ed those points up the wall.

 

Unless the manager has some sort of transplant over the next week then I cannot see how anything can change. The club can't admit they've failed AGAIN though, as it will go against their PR back slapping bull**** about how well run a club we are. We have been, but we have dropped an almighty bollock over the last 2 years and people should be accountable for that.

 

To go from Top 6, playing Inter Milan and 60m+ (and now 75m+) in transfer profits to where we are now is nothing short of incompetent management at all levels. Heads should roll from top to bottom.

[Saint Albert]

Long is arguably versatile and fit to press the CB and drop into midfield when needed - in much the same way Okazaki does for Leicester -and one reason why I think we could accommodate both him and Gabbi in the side without conceding too much space.

 

We should have brought Lemina on sooner. If the rest of the side is treating the football like a hot potato, at least, have someone who's brave enough on the ball to carry it forward. Thought Lemina calmed us down when he came on for precisely that reason.

 

Long has played well lately and was instrumental in both of JWP’s goals yesterday.

 

Long deserves to play next weekend. I’m going to stop complaining about his continued selection, but I still don’t fully get why the manager of a team woefully short on goals, does not rate Gabbiadini.

 

Even if he is struggling with a knock, I’d start Lemina over Davis.

[Donatello]

We do have the players, there is no doubt about that, but the fact we haven't beaten Swansea, Palace, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Brighton, Watford, Newcastle, Stoke, Leicester says it all for me. Our start of the season was relatively straight forward, but we ****ed those points up the wall.

 

Unless the manager has some sort of transplant over the next week then I cannot see how anything can change. The club can't admit they've failed AGAIN though, as it will go against their PR back slapping bull**** about how well run a club we are. We have been, but we have dropped an almighty bollock over the last 2 years and people should be accountable for that.

 

To go from Top 6, playing Inter Milan and 60m+ (and now 75m+) in transfer profits to where we are now is nothing short of incompetent management at all levels. Heads should roll from top to bottom.

 

Do you envisage that happening though? Say, in the event of relegation. Usually I wouldn't necessarily advocate top to bottom changes in this situation, because relegation happens sometimes, but the sheer delusion and hand-sitting from the board is agitating beyond belief at present, so if we are relegated under those circumstances, I wouldn't be opposed to certain board members having their days numbered, even if those certain board members have been influential in our recent success. That being said, Gao is the only individual who can authorise this, and what can fans realistically do to have their say/influence? (besides wave hankies/hold season tickets up for Echo photo opps) In this day and age, is it naive to think anything can be done beside b*tch and moan on a forum?

[scotty]

Changed?

 

None

 

 

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Plenty were changed, if you assume that the ref wouldn't have consulted the linos unless he'd been mobbed (which fergusons teams had clearly been coached to do.) Plenty more were prevented in the first place by the backlash refs knew they were going to get over any 50/50 decisions not going the "right" way. And don't try and pretend that the fergie wrist-tapping didn't have an effect on refs, he was nearly always acknowledged by them when he did it and the time early always got added. Sides like Saints mob the ref, they get carded like Cedric yesterday. Which is why we don't usually do it.

[saintant]

For a team to capitulate as often as we do in the second half there has to be serious concerns about the fitness of the players. Ok negative tactics and poor use of subs doesn't help but under Pochetinno we were fitter than most and that helps when the going gets tough and you come under the cosh. If players are not fully fit they'll be running on empty in the last quarter of games and I'm convinced that is one of our biggest problems. No excuses for not being as fit as possible.

[stknowle]

For a team to capitulate as often as we do in the second half there has to be serious concerns about the fitness of the players. Ok negative tactics and poor use of subs doesn't help but under Pochetinno we were fitter than most and that helps when the going gets tough and you come under the cosh. If players are not fully fit they'll be running on empty in the last quarter of games and I'm convinced that is one of our biggest problems. No excuses for not being as fit as possible.

 

Agree. Once again that is on the Manager. Read a few comments on here suggesting that we don't make a conscious decision to sit back we just get overrun because we get tired and can't compete - Well ****ing up the training and get us fit so we can compete then.

[captainchris]

****ing hell what game was he watching?

We were slicing the ball out of touch, misplacing passes and pumping it back to Watford’s defence to attack again.

I’m surprised Silva never took his goalie off for another striker.

 

Pelligrino is completely blind to what is happening tactically in a match.

He asks (tells) our ‘wide’ midfielders to run to the centre circle and take a ‘marked’ position in the densely crowded centre of the pitch. This means we have no outlet from our defensive midfielders when we gain procession. This means we either hit it long and hopeful or pass it to a marked wide player who is stood in the centre has no outlet and gets immediately dispossessed unless that player can recycle the ball back to the defensive midfield or drfender who is by now being pressed by opposition attackers so has no outlet and repeat....

Pellegrino is so far out of his depth it’s frightening....Our ‘tactic’ is to be standing in a ‘marked’ position and not to support the team mate on the ball..

It is moronic and not even as good as pub football ...

To gain some perspective let’s compare for one moment this guy with Pochettino........... Now let’s see if Pellegrino matches up in any single element of his performance compared to him..... Interesting exercise .... Now discuss why we are persevering with blatant incompetence ????

[derry]

This defeat was self inflicted after going two up. As soon as Deeney came on Davis should have been replaced by Lamina and as soon as we were struggling with Watford playing direct we should have taken JWP and Tadic off and brought on Gabbiadini and Sims to give the slow Watford defence a different problem, then, together with the front three, Romeu, Hojbjerg and Lamina should press hard into the ball rather than positioning up to ten yards in front of the ball and being easily bypassed. If nothing else, if Lamina had replaced Davis, that first goal may well have not happened and we might have snatched another goal with more forwards. We certainly would have relieved a lot of the pressure.

 

Leaving one forward to attack and five midfielders backing into the back four conceded the ball and space to Watford. Three nippy forwards would have given the Watford defence problems and probably given us some control again. Putting more defenders on just concedes to the opposition, putting forwards on moves the pressure back on the opposition, as we could go route one through them on the break as we did with the second goal. The full backs would have been restricted and they were light in midfield. All right going forwards but very vulnerable to counter attacking.

[krissyboy31]

This defeat was self inflicted after going two up. As soon as Deeney came on Davis should have been replaced by Lamina and as soon as we were struggling with Watford playing direct we should have taken JWP and Tadic off and brought on Gabbiadini and Sims to give the slow Watford defence a different problem, then, together with the front three, Romeu, Hojbjerg and Lamina should press hard into the ball rather than positioning up to ten yards in front of the ball and being easily bypassed. If nothing else, if Lamina had replaced Davis, that first goal may well have not happened and we might have snatched another goal with more forwards. We certainly would have relieved a lot of the pressure.

 

Leaving one forward to attack and five midfielders backing into the back four conceded the ball and space to Watford. Three nippy forwards would have given the Watford defence problems and probably given us some control again. Putting more defenders on just concedes to the opposition, putting forwards on moves the pressure back on the opposition, as we could go route one through them on the break as we did with the second goal. The full backs would have been restricted and they were light in midfield. All right going forwards but very vulnerable to counter attacking.

We can all see this apart from the management team. Maybe Black wasn't the villain of the piece and resigned because he was being constantly overruled when it comes to tactics? Just a thought!!

 

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[Chez]

For a team to capitulate as often as we do in the second half there has to be serious concerns about the fitness of the players. Ok negative tactics and poor use of subs doesn't help but under Pochetinno we were fitter than most and that helps when the going gets tough and you come under the cosh. If players are not fully fit they'll be running on empty in the last quarter of games and I'm convinced that is one of our biggest problems. No excuses for not being as fit as possible.

 

fitness if often brought up when teams are struggling and there is a management change and I often think its a smokescreen, but on this occasion I do think there is something in it. I've seen it in quite a few games this season where we blow ourselves out with a lot effort early doors to close people down (maybe not a high press), but that just dissappears second half and its down to fitness. Whether any team can close down from the first minute to last I don't know, but we struggle to do it beyond half time.

[eddie]

What is going on?

 

I've been impressed by our attacking displays recently, especially in the first halves. We play well and dominate.

 

But it's happened many times this season, second half or end of the game we seem to collapse in our confidence and retreat into our own half, or make stupid defensive mistakes.

 

I understand the negativity around us - but I want us to remember that we do play some excellent football in the style and confidence that has defined us in past seasons. It's just the end of the game....our game management is awful !

[eurosaint]

Not sure that fitness is the issue when discussing our second half trials and tribulations !

I think it is more to do with lack of confidence, we have lost so many late goals that it gets inside their heads and they start to lose composure !

It's often said that lower teams suffer from this and equally importantly never seem to get the 'rub of the green' as happened on Saturday !

[Gingeletiss]

This defeat was self inflicted after going two up. As soon as Deeney came on Davis should have been replaced by Lamina and as soon as we were struggling with Watford playing direct we should have taken JWP and Tadic off and brought on Gabbiadini and Sims to give the slow Watford defence a different problem, then, together with the front three, Romeu, Hojbjerg and Lamina should press hard into the ball rather than positioning up to ten yards in front of the ball and being easily bypassed. If nothing else, if Lamina had replaced Davis, that first goal may well have not happened and we might have snatched another goal with more forwards. We certainly would have relieved a lot of the pressure.

 

Leaving one forward to attack and five midfielders backing into the back four conceded the ball and space to Watford. Three nippy forwards would have given the Watford defence problems and probably given us some control again. Putting more defenders on just concedes to the opposition, putting forwards on moves the pressure back on the opposition, as we could go route one through them on the break as we did with the second goal. The full backs would have been restricted and they were light in midfield. All right going forwards but very vulnerable to counter attacking.

 

Wow! I thought we drew, need to re-watch it

[austsaint]

Wow! I thought we drew, need to re-watch it

 

It felt like a defeat though didn't it?

[Gingeletiss]

It felt like a defeat though didn't it?

 

They all do, at 64, I have hard skin, because Saints have done this to me time after time, but I'm still here, cheering.

[alpine_saint]

Surely all the improvement achieved by all the players on the pitch in the first half was undone by the idiotic tactics and substitution timings of the manager second half ?

 

This is an open-and-shut case that the manager needs to go. The Watford game provides evidence that the problem lies with MoPe, and not the players or Reed. For once.

[shurlock]

Surely all the improvement achieved by all the players on the pitch in the first half was undone by the idiotic tactics and substitution timings of the manager second half ?

 

This is an open-and-shut case that the manager needs to go. The Watford game provides evidence that the problem lies with MoPe, and not the players or Reed. For once.

 

Low on confidence, 2-0 away from home is still a slender lead, regardless of the manager. You always expect the home team to have a spell of pressure and a quick goal can completely turn the game. We've already shown that we get bullied in the air (a personnel issue) and Watford are one of the most physical sides in the league. We were perhaps fortunate that they didn't play to their strengths and exploit our weaknesses in the first half.

[derry]

Wow! I thought we drew, need to re-watch it

 

For me, the manager trying to cope rather than get on the front foot and into the Watford defence, restricting their ability to dominate and penning us in our last third, with, Davis who shouldn't have even been still on the field, giving the ball to them to score the first and finally surrendering a two goal lead to a cheating hand ball was a defeat because it gave away two points, one wasn't good enough. And MP admitting he dropped Romeu in front of the centre halves, but leaving Davis on was just incompetent. Who dares wins, somebody needs to lay it on the line. Pellegrino lost us that win together with a host of points because of his negative, scared tactics, he is like a mouse in the headlights.

[Batman]

how he didn't make a sub around 85 mins to break up the pattern of the game was just bizarre.

[Graffito]

For me, the manager trying to cope rather than get on the front foot and into the Watford defence, restricting their ability to dominate and penning us in our last third, with, Davis who shouldn't have even been still on the field, giving the ball to them to score the first and finally surrendering a two goal lead to a cheating hand ball was a defeat because it gave away two points, one wasn't good enough. And MP admitting he dropped Romeu in front of the centre halves, but leaving Davis on was just incompetent. Who dares wins, somebody needs to lay it on the line. Pellegrino lost us that win together with a host of points because of his negative, scared tactics, he is like a mouse in the headlights.

 

The manager has a problem with substitutions but....what bothers me about what you've said is that in the home game against palace, a similar scenario to Saturday, the manager took off a midfielder and put on a forward (hope I've got that right) which left a big hole in midfield which palace quickly exploited and we conceded and lost. Yes that was a LOSS not a DRAW like saturday. Pelligrino was hammered for that substitution against Palace including by me. On Saturday he tried to shore up the defence and we conceded. Which approach is right?

 

Secondly, the manager is primarily responsible for performances and if there were anyone better to replace him I think he would have gone by now but without wishing to sound condescending by stating the bleeding obvious there's clearly a whole range of reasons why the team is struggling on the pitch this season which are not within the managers control, from the ownership down to crass refereeing decisions which robbed us of a win on Saturday.

[derry]

The manager has a problem with substitutions but....what bothers me about what you've said is that in the home game against palace, a similar scenario to Saturday, the manager took off a midfielder and put on a forward (hope I've got that right) which left a big hole in midfield which palace quickly exploited and we conceded and lost. Yes that was a LOSS not a DRAW like saturday. Pelligrino was hammered for that substitution against Palace including by me. On Saturday he tried to shore up the defence and we conceded. Which approach is right?

 

Secondly, the manager is primarily responsible for performances and if there were anyone better to replace him I think he would have gone by now but without wishing to sound condescending by stating the bleeding obvious there's clearly a whole range of reasons why the team is struggling on the pitch this season which are not within the managers control, from the ownership down to crass refereeing decisions which robbed us of a win on Saturday.

 

I'm not advocating his piecemeal approach to fighting fires. My way was attacking with Sims and Long wide occupying the full backs, Gabbiadini up the middle, Put the three strongest midfielders, Romeu, Lamina and Hojbjerg together in midfield and press the ball ruthlessly not stand off. Putting quick players out on the touch line makes the defenders keep four back. The ball on the left, the wide right comes in with Gabbiadini, vice versa, the midfielders press up and force the opponents out of their space to deny the option of comfortable route one into our nine defenders as their forwards would have to come back to help out and our back four could push up. We are no longer backing off.

[Saint_clark]

Although I was at the game I wasn't thinking of commenting as there are do many experts on here already.

 

But, in the cold light of day, and with anger slightly subsided, here goes.

 

Firstly, this was better. In the first half we expressed ourselves, got forward, scored two goals. Both by a player regularly derided on here as being negative, only passing backwards and not getting into goal-scoring positions.

 

Obviously the second half was very different, but not, as so many seem to be suggesting, because we changed tactics and decided, or were told, to fall back and defend. We didn't "invite them on". No. We tried to continue with the same tactics from the first half, which had worked because Watford weren't playing in a way that would stop us. The second half was different because Watford brought on strong, physical players, upped their tempo and played much more directly. Simply, we were bullied, and helped a lot by the ref.

 

But where I agree with others is that MP was too slow to counter their changes. Lemina for Davis was right, but maybe a bit late. He could have brought on another CB and sacrificed JWP or Tadic. That might have worked, but in his defence, if MP had done that, it would have been accepting that we were just going to park the bus and try to hold on.

 

In my very humble opinion, we defended very strongly against the onslaught. Hoedt and Cedric outstanding. Hojbjerg and Romeu good as well, but all did their bit. Accepting that Davis lost the ball for the first goal, but another view is that he was trying to get our passing game going again. We'd lost composure and were hoofing. The ball just kept coming back. It was right to try to play our way out.

 

I can also just about understand the other subs not being used earlier. We were beginning to weather the storm with the players on the pitch and having two time-wasting subs for added time would have been good.

 

And as for the handball goal - one of the worst bits of refereeing I've seen in a long time. The ref's whole body language suggested he wasn't going to be challenged or check with the assistant. Yellow out very quickly for Cedric. Why wasn't Bertrand more forceful? He has the right to be so, as captain. When the hell will football come out of the dark ages and catch up with pretty-well every other sport using video technology. These mistakes must be put right immediatey. No amount of retrospective action will get us two points back, and that could mean relegation - a cost of tens of millions.

 

And to say it didn't matter as we'd had a bad second half is utter rubbish. It made all the difference. If the goal hadn't stood, and we'd held out, I would have called it a great morale-boosting rearguard defensive display earning a critical three points. But now, because of cheating, it's the opposite. I'm gutted, and gutted for the team, who I thought we're brilliant today. Keep playing with that spirit and well stay up.

 

Despite the manager.

 

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Totally agree. I am actually more willing to give Pellegrino time after this game than I was after beating Everton 4-1. There is something there...it's just whether we have the players and the time to get it in place - and whether he will learn from his mistakes and grow or stick to them.

[Guan 2.0]

Totally agree. I am actually more willing to give Pellegrino time after this game than I was after beating Everton 4-1. There is something there...it's just whether we have the players and the time to get it in place - and whether he will learn from his mistakes and grow or stick to them.

 

Against Everton, who were effectively protesting Unsworth with on-pitch performances. Against a hopeless Billic at west ham. Against a Crystal palace side only 3 days into recovery mode after De Boer wrecked the place, Against a West Brom side managed by and out-of ideas, out-of-time Pulis.

 

Notice a pattern? We can just about scrape wins past sides that are terrible and realise they have to change their manager. That's it. You want to celebrate a point against Watford the only other team in comparable form to us (though still above us in the form table)? Before anyone looks, no, i was not suggesting Silva as our manager earlier in the season either.

 

Madness. If these are the games which we see the spark, it is obvious that Pellegrino must go. Not after the cup game, not at the end of the window, let us write off the spurs thrashing as his last deplorable act, and wash away his stain on Sunday night, to begin anew on Monday.

[SuperSAINT]

Against Everton, who were effectively protesting Unsworth with on-pitch performances. Against a hopeless Billic at west ham. Against a Crystal palace side only 3 days into recovery mode after De Boer wrecked the place, Against a West Brom side managed by and out-of ideas, out-of-time Pulis.

 

Notice a pattern? We can just about scrape wins past sides that are terrible and realise they have to change their manager. That's it. You want to celebrate a point against Watford the only other team in comparable form to us (though still above us in the form table)? Before anyone looks, no, i was not suggesting Silva as our manager earlier in the season either.

 

Madness. If these are the games which we see the spark, it is obvious that Pellegrino must go. Not after the cup game, not at the end of the window, let us write off the spurs thrashing as his last deplorable act, and wash away his stain on Sunday night, to begin anew on Monday.

 

The most laughable thing this season (among many things) was Ralph referring to last season as fabulous. Yet, that was enough to get Claude sacked.

 

Here we are, up sh*t creek & MP is still here. Still looking for a reaction every week.

[Charlie Wayman]

I wonder if Pellegrino himself would also like to be put out of his mercy but can't afford to resign? If Les lacks the balls to sack him because of his own loss of face and probably his job then the poor sod is trapped. He must be very well aware of all the bile and abuse that he is getting on social media every single day and nobody can cope with that indefinitely or the effect it must be having on his physche and family life. Is he just going through the motions? Can seem so at times at his press conferences.

[OldNick]

Totally agree. I am actually more willing to give Pellegrino time after this game than I was after beating Everton 4-1. There is something there...it's just whether we have the players and the time to get it in place - and whether he will learn from his mistakes and grow or stick to them.

well please tell me where something is there, whenyou are 2-1 up 5 minutes to go and you can kill the game by making 2 subs.Thus breaking up any momentum Watford had, it has been done to us countless times, and is one of the most obvious things a manager can do

[Whitey Grandad]

I wonder if Pellegrino himself would also like to be put out of his mercy but can't afford to resign? If Les lacks the balls to sack him because of his own loss of face and probably his job then the poor sod is trapped. He must be very well aware of all the bile and abuse that he is getting on social media every single day and nobody can cope with that indefinitely or the effect it must be having on his physche and family life. Is he just going through the motions? Can seem so at times at his press conferences.

 

Makes sense. So that’s why he’s making sure that we throw away leads and never plays our best team. He wants to be sacked.

[doddisalegend]

Makes sense. So that’s why he’s making sure that we throw away leads and never plays our best team. He wants to be sacked.

 

 

No I think Les and co have studied Leicester's win of the title and how they achieved it. The plan all along is to survive relegation by the skin of our teeth, change manager in the summer and fire ourselves to PL glory on the back of Shane Long's record breaking goal scoring tally next season....