Watford v Saints - Post Match Meltdown

[mrfahaji]

Worst result possible.

 

Is it though? The way we capitulated in the second half must surely make the board question Pellegrino in a way that they perhaps wouldn't have done if we had scraped the win.

 

I'd obviously have preferred the 3 points, but given the way the game happened, maybe there is still hope of the manager going. And if he does, better to have a point than none!

[doddisalegend]

It's not just the manager ( though he is obviously part of the problem) the players make so many poor decisions that they shouldn't be making, they have no fight or seemingly a will to win. We've slowly downgrade the squad until it's befret of leaders and players who can make a difference when we need it.

[badgerx16]

That second half was entirely predictable, and regardless of the handball, we were lucky to come away with a point. I'm not sure how MoPe handles halftime team talks, but he sure seems to be an expert at demotivating players.

[alpine_saint]

Sack this useless manager. We were in driving seat. Then they pull one back and this manager does nothing until they equalise. Get bloody rid!

 

This.

 

The handball is irrelevant.

[Ohio Saint]

Better than a defeat surely....

 

I would have been happier with a defeat if MP was sacked for it.

[Millbrook Saint]

Could flores have turned down stoke as we're coming in?

[Convict Colony]

I lost hope in Dec I'm not even mad anymore just disappointed

[DSJH93]

Makes the two changes once they finally equalized.. clueless manager . Poor game management again and again

[Bananaman]

In the 77th minute, we had been under the cosh for a solid 10minutes, we've already conceded one and Watford have the wind in their sails. I'm sitting here thinking 'Watford have changed their tactics, Deeney is causing problems, long is isolated and, if we do not change things (in reply to Watford's tactical change) we will conceed again... I wonder what MP is thinking here?? if I do nothing, things just improve themselves?; it's just a phase, Watford wont score?" what the **** is going through his head that he can see Watford emerge as the dominent side, pull one back and then do nothing!?!?!

[monosaint]

Let's take the positives. We could have capitulated very easily in the 2nd half but managed to weather the storm and it looks like we were robbed by a handball. We have moved up one place and are not in the bottom 3. Let's not forget we are very low on confidence and this would have been a result we'd have taken before the game. We move on. Negativity from us doesn't help.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Obviously the equaliser should not have stood.

 

But the second half performance was an absolute disgrace, and the lack of reaction from the Manager is every reason why he should go. If you cannot deal when a team changes its tactics then you are in a world of trouble. Watford did nothing special but commit men forward and lump it up to them. When we were crying out for some pace on the break we sat back and saw our team crumble under the pressure and make no mistake, we were lucky not to lose that game.

 

Then to react to the goal but making the double sub with 2 minutes left - absolutely baffling. Mental.

[St Chalet]

I couldn't give two sh1ts whether the goal was handball or not. The fact is the manager's half time team talk made us lose our bottle.

 

This

[Wes Tender]

Bloody typical! Lemina should have been brought on immediately Watford started to dominate possession and had us on the rack, getting their goals as a result. We took back control for a period when he did come on.

 

Watford put on the big guns up front who muscled us off the ball and had our defence under the cosh. Pellegrino should have countered with fresh legs and a strategy to keep the ball more to run down the clock.

 

But by the time MOTD has been shown, now everybody will know that Watford scored their equaliser illegally, so we lose two points as a result of incompetent refereeing. If they aren't going to introduce video evidence, then perhaps they should disallow the goal retrospectively instead.

 

But regardless of that, if Pellegrino can't produce a strategy to hold a two goal lead, then the sooner we say goodbye to him the better.

[SW5 SAINT]

Better than a defeat surely....

 

A defeat and the manager might have gone............

[Saint_clark]

So torn right now. On the one hand, we played brilliantly in the first half - so we KNOW that Pelligrino can get the team playing well. However, the fact that he is adamant about playing it "safe" and sitting back instead of going for the kill, the fact he leaves it far too late to change things around (Davis should have come off long before he gifted Watford their first goal/two subs in injury time after the equaliser)...it all leads you to ask one critical question - will he ever find the balls to actually go for it and reach the potential he clearly has?

 

I think the players have shown today, recently and in brief spells throughout the season that they're capable of being a good side. I'm just not sure this manager has the right mentality for it.

[doddisalegend]

It's the same squad that played the first half. It's the tactics or lack of them. They must all sit around at half time in the dressing rooms all on their phones. Clueless second half as usual. We would be confortably mid table if we had our results from our first half performances.

 

 

The players should have enough about them to just ignore the manager if it clearly isn't working. We really lack a proper captain in the team some one to pull the players up by the short and curlies and make then work and fight we have team of bottle jobs

[shurlock]

Doesn't matter about the handball, you sit back against any team, what the fook do you expect. He is so out of his depth, has no idea how to win a game

 

Shocking decision by the ref but poor defending by Stephens and Hoedt and indecision by McCarthy in the lead-up. We sat off too much but had weathered the worst of it which makes the goal all the more galling.

[Convict Colony]

A lot of our players don't deserve this manager, he could make Messi look sh.t

[badgerx16]

Better than a defeat surely....

An inept defeat might have earned Pellegrino the boot, a point combined with the first half performance may well give him another few weeks.

[the saint in winchester]

Handball or not, we’ve inivited the pressure again and failed to manage it again.

 

Huddersfield, Arsenal and Palace games we tried and it failed, when the f*ck is he going to learn?

 

Time to go.

 

Yeah, it's that that frustrates me. He doesn't realise the best form of defence is attack. Just tries to defend a lead and we get caught out every time. Annoying to concede to a handball, but there was also the shirt tug that should have been a penalty. Can't see us winning again this season.

But MP will stay on. But then I don't think he would have gone even if we lost 5-0, so we just have to grit our teeth and hope. Annoying that West Brom won.

[Smirking_Saint]

I imagine MoPe's post match talk is going to be pretty heavy on the side of the fact it was a blatant handball, but in reality he handed the whole second half to them, YOU CANNOT SIT BACK FOR 45 MINUTES AND HOPE TO WIN

 

I am completely lost at how he has not figured this out by now, I am usually a complete optimist but this guy is tactically inept, clearly unable to motivate the team, has little to zero game management, has proven how easily he is out manoeuvred by pretty much every other manager in the league.

 

As I thought FF wasn't the problem, AM doesn't look any real improvement on him, I won't blame AM completely though, Dacoure was completely untracked despite having 3 DM's on the pitch.

 

Why in the flying **** do we carry Tadic EVERY MATCH... I am not denying there is talent there, but he is pure luxury, he doesn't work at all, doesn't harry, doesn't track, doesn't tackle and right now doesn't really add anything creatively either so why leave him on IF he is planning to try to hold on ?

 

The gap between our defence and attack in the second half was simply massive, so even when we did manage to nick the ball back from a Watford that were enabled (by us by the way, not necessarily by their changes) to camp in our half we have no where to go, our FBs are pushed back by their wingers and our DMs and attacking players are central, so relieving pressure is a near impossible task.

 

We have no big man, Long works hard but look how easy it was for Watford and Palace to release pressure and build from Benteke/Okore/Deeney.

 

Please for the love of god get rid of this clown, Im sure he is a lovely bloke but prem standard manager he very very much is not.

[GarrettIvo]

Fair result. Focus will be on the handball but they came out made changes and attacked second half, always felt it was coming.

 

Did very well first half, JWP excellent. But what does he say at half time? I get Watford were always going to come out fired up with nothing to lose, but why does MP always make us worse with his changes?

 

It was his lack of changes though that was the problem. Taking Davis off was fine - he cost us the first goal. But how do we keep two subs until the 90th minute? That's crazy.

The useless bastard has to go.

[MOSaint]

You can buy as many strikers as you like, if we have a dunce in the dugout who will make the team drop deep as soon as we have a lead (with defenders that can't cope in the air), it won't make an ounce of difference.

[Pamplemousse]

We’ve don’t play until next Sunday so a bit of extra time, and we’ll probably lose against Spurs anyway, so just get a new manager in NOW. Stop dithering Les and just get on with it.

[PapaWaiToGO]

I've lost count of the amount of times Pellegrino has been tactically outsmarted this season. Starting to think he just happened to turn up to the wrong interview and got the job.

[SNSUN]

He's out of his depth and he needs to go. That's not even a decent away point seeing as we were two goals to the good. I told my mate at half time it'd finish 2-2 and I wish I'd had money on it.

 

15 games left this season and we are 1 point (as it stands) off the relegation zone, we could very well be in the relegation zone at the end of this weekend's fixtures. Unless a change is made, and soon, the only way I can see us escaping relegation is 3 teams being crapper than we are.

 

Pellegrino out this week please.

[trousers]

Ultimately robbed by the opponents cheating but we shouldn't have been in the position where that became a possibility. Half time jitters by most on here were justified unfortunately. I guess the handball goal will let Pellegrino off the hook in the eyes of the board. If we could play as well for 90 minutes as we quite often do for 45 minutes we'd be safely nestled in the top half of the table.

 

Good job football is only a game....

 

We limp on.

[S-Clarke]

1st half fine, but the oppo were poor and handed it on a plate. but 2nd half he was once again out-managed by the oppo. They got the tactics right, changed up their shape and we were under an absolute onslaught for 45 mins. I could never see a team withstanding that amount of pressure, and we didn't. Handball or not, it probably should have been 2-2 before then. He isn't proactive, he is reactive and passive. Just like the team.

 

There is something fundamentally wrong with his philosophy.

[Convict Colony]

He was always suspect given the amount of clubs he's already had as a young manager, sort of like a conman who moves town before he's found out

[Wes Tender]

. Let's not forget we are very low on confidence and this would have been a result we'd have taken before the game. We move on. Negativity from us doesn't help.

Speak for yourself. I wouldn't have taken it before the game and I doubt that many others would have too.

[Pilchards]

In the 77th minute, we had been under the cosh for a solid 10minutes, we've already conceded one and Watford have the wind in their sails. I'm sitting here thinking 'Watford have changed their tactics, Deeney is causing problems, long is isolated and, if we do not change things (in reply to Watford's tactical change) we will conceed again... I wonder what MP is thinking here?? if I do nothing, things just improve themselves?; it's just a phase, Watford wont score?" what the **** is going through his head that he can see Watford emerge as the dominent side, pull one back and then do nothing!?!?!

 

I'm scratching my head too.

I think 99% of us on here could see we needed to do something and yet MP was too scared to do it.

Muppet must go as we will not win another game this season with him, he is that bad.

[qwertyell]

As with the home game earlier in the season, once Watford upped the pace and physicality, we were gutless and feeble. Arsenal-lite. The only difference between the two games is Watford took the first half to wake up properly.

 

Clearly the manager has learned nothing in 23 games. Or maybe he's just an idiot.

 

Flagrant handball for the equaliser, though. The referee's incompetence somewhat matched by McCarthy's over-polite challenge to a situation that was about 60/40 in his his favour if his heart had been in it.

 

Beautiful scenes of tactical genius Pellegrino finally deciding that the 91st minute was the optimum moment to make a double attacking substitution...

 

We're down. Might as well just enjoy the ride as the club are either powerless, indifferent or too delusional to do anything to reverse the trend.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

[oldsaint]

Let's take the positives. We could have capitulated very easily in the 2nd half but managed to weather the storm and it looks like we were robbed by a handball. We have moved up one place and are not in the bottom 3. Let's not forget we are very low on confidence and this would have been a result we'd have taken before the game. We move on. Negativity from us doesn't help.

 

keep taking the tablets you must be on some heavy dosage to come up with this thought . we bossed them in the first half and changed our method of play to suit them in the second half sack the manager he has no clue like you

[Atlanta Saint]

Let's take the positives. We could have capitulated very easily in the 2nd half but managed to weather the storm and it looks like we were robbed by a handball. We have moved up one place and are not in the bottom 3. Let's not forget we are very low on confidence and this would have been a result we'd have taken before the game. We move on. Negativity from us doesn't help.

 

We did capitulate the 2nd half, we were never in the game.

[mrfahaji]

It's not just the manager ( though he is obviously part of the problem) the players make so many poor decisions that they shouldn't be making, they have no fight or seemingly a will to win. We've slowly downgrade the squad until it's befret of leaders and players who can make a difference when we need it.

 

Can't help but think that comes back to the manager though. These aren't, for the most part, players who have consistently been poor in the past.

 

In the same way that Gary Player (I think) coined the phrase, "the more I practise, the luckier I get", the better a team is drilled, the fewer mistakes they make. I think back to the European Championships and how impressive Italy were. Their players weren't that great, but Conte had instilled such a clear plan that they all knew exactly what to do.

 

The will to win is debatable - I certainly think there's a case that it's true - but I'd say that a team winning games often looks like the players have more fight than a team losing. It's normally because they don't know what to do to improve things, than because they can't be bothered.

[tobes8]

Huddersfield, palace and now Watford. Absolutely shocking 2nd half performances. We are being absolutely mugged off by this manager, coaching staff and most vitally the board. Give up

[Wiggles31]

Absolute joke - again sitting on a lead. Almost impressive how consistently inept this manager is in winning positions. Feels too late to replace. Look at West Ham and Palace. Disgrace from the club.

[Ohio Saint]

A lot of our players don't deserve this manager, he could make Messi look sh.t

 

Agreed. We have a decent squad. It's not the players, it's the way they are managed.

[LGTL]

Their equaliser was a disgrace.

 

Swap the managers though and we win that game comfortably. Nothing else needs to be said really does it.

[Jack]

He’s going nowhere.

 

We’re going down.

[S-Clarke]

What in living jesus is McCarthy doing for the 2nd? I mean come on, he's supposed to be a goalkeeper. How have we managed to lumber ourselves with two keepers who can't keep goal.

 

[Wirral saint]

Why, why, ****ing why does he always sit back and ****ing defend when we know what is going to happen??

 

The board cannot support him any longer, he is out of his depth, clueless, makes subs only when we try and hold out and then we concede.

 

2 nil up game should have been won. Should have attacked you spineless ******.

 

Go, just ****ing go.

[Ohio Saint]

He’s going nowhere.

 

We’re going down.

 

I'm going to the pub.

[Saint Albert]

Bloody typical! Lemina should have been brought on immediately Watford started to dominate possession and had us on the rack, getting their goals as a result. We took back control for a period when he did come on.

 

Watford put on the big guns up front who muscled us off the ball and had our defence under the cosh. Pellegrino should have countered with fresh legs and a strategy to keep the ball more to run down the clock.

 

But by the time MOTD has been shown, now everybody will know that Watford scored their equaliser illegally, so we lose two points as a result of incompetent refereeing. If they aren't going to introduce video evidence, then perhaps they should disallow the goal retrospectively instead.

 

But regardless of that, if Pellegrino can't produce a strategy to hold a two goal lead, then the sooner we say goodbye to him the better.

 

Yes he made the Lemina sub too late, and he really should have brought Boufal on to exploit the space as they pressed to get back in the game. Pellegrino is such a passive, defensive, reactive manager.

[alpine_saint]

Let's take the positives. We could have capitulated very easily in the 2nd half but managed to weather the storm and it looks like we were robbed by a handball. We have moved up one place and are not in the bottom 3. Let's not forget we are very low on confidence and this would have been a result we'd have taken before the game. We move on. Negativity from us doesn't help.

 

I‘m going to take an infraction on the chin.

 

You’re a f**king idiot.

[LuckyNumber7]

Excellent first half, terrible second half. Once again the negative safety first tactics have come back to bite us and we got everything we deserved. Yes it should have been handball but they should have had a penalty before that anyway for the shirt pull by Romeu. No excuse for that performance drop in the second half. Get this clown out now before it's too late.

[austsaint]

1st half fine, but the oppo were poor and handed it on a plate. but 2nd half he was once again out-managed by the oppo. They got the tactics right, changed up their shape and we were under an absolute onslaught for 45 mins. I could never see a team withstanding that amount of pressure, and we didn't. Handball or not, it probably should have been 2-2 before then. He isn't proactive, he is reactive and passive. Just like the team.

 

There is something fundamentally wrong with his philosophy.

 

You've put it well. He must go now. Reactive and passive sum him up - the game was there for the taking but the Manager didn't have the guts to be proactive and tried to protect what he thought he had.

[trousers]

...

[Smirking_Saint]

It's not just the manager ( though he is obviously part of the problem) the players make so many poor decisions that they shouldn't be making, they have no fight or seemingly a will to win. We've slowly downgrade the squad until it's befret of leaders and players who can make a difference when we need it.

 

Leaders I agree with, I posted a long waffling twitter rant the other day that bemoans the lack of leaders throughout the club right now. I mean, who is accountable for this mess ?

 

Gao and Kat are basically absent owners, we hear nothing we see little

 

Krueger seems to be the PR mouthpiece with little actual understanding of whats going on, yet dodges any questions about whether he carries the can or not

 

Reed is the footballing guy, who I actually think if you take everything as a whole has done a decent job, but now seems has the ability to make decisions as he see's fit with no repercussions.

 

Like you say I can't see any leaders in the club from a playing perspective right now, Romeu maybe, but just doesn't seem the right type.

 

Pellegrino seems to have the backbone of a flump.

 

As far as the players are concerned, this is the same team, plus a new CB and DM and a full season of Gabbi that finished 8th, got to a cup final and had Europe to contend with. Theres no reason why they shouldn't be performing better than they are other than the fact that the manager seems to be inept and I would suggest, having watched every game this year the players seem to know that. It seems to me as soon as they come under pressure its as if they almost know it will only end one way.

[Saint Albert]

The atmosphere for the Spurs game at home could get sour very quickly if Pellegrino stays.