Bad Wolf Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I seem to remember about this time last year we were about 70/30 in favour of sacking Puel. Plus there were a huge amount of people on the fence. Here we are a year later and I haven't seen a single comment on here or social media that wants MP to stay. Nor have I spoke to anyone of that opinion. I'm not starting this for an argument or anything of that nature but I genuinely want to know if there's ANYONE who, if given the option would rather have MP stay than go. Has anyone spoken to anyone who wants this? Like I said, I'm just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Candidate for the shortest thread ever, this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 No one is going to admit it on here are they, It would be like surrendering knowing you were going to get hung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted 6 January, 2018 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Since when did anyone not admit anything on here? Or indeed, on the internet in general? Because people on here are generally d1ck lynch you if you happen to have a different opinion to the consensus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Instant Classic has this bizarre method of starting threads without actually reading the copious amounts of threads dedicated to the same topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Candidate for the shortest thread ever, this one... Made me laugh!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I seem to remember about this time last year we were about 70/30 in favour of sacking Puel. Plus there were a huge amount of people on the fence. Here we are a year later and I haven't seen a single comment on here or social media that wants MP to stay. Nor have I spoke to anyone of that opinion. I'm not starting this for an argument or anything of that nature but I genuinely want to know if there's ANYONE who, if given the option would rather have MP stay than go. Has anyone spoken to anyone who wants this? Like I said, I'm just curious. TBH I am a bit torn. I don't like MP, I think he has a lot of faults BUT I do think whoever is in charge we will struggle to stay up now. I am not joining the clamour for him to go, but I probably would raise a smile if he did. I have not much confidence that the board would pick an adaquate replacement anyway so really don't know if there is any benefit either way. I think I am at the point where I have accepted that I can't influence us going down or staying up other than supporting on match day. I won't join in any anti the manager songs etc.. I don't think that would help... However if anyone wants a protest about the ownership of the club, I am in!!, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 What I would prefer would be for him to win the next game then go on to be our best ever manager. That does not seem likely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Mark Hughes available! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5string Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I'd love him to stay. He can cut the grass. Thing is, halfway through cutting it he'd think it was done, change to the manual mower which has a different, fixed height setting, then at the last minute swap that for the roller over the whole pitch in an attempt to get the height of the grass back even again. It would still be too short, but Les would declare it to be a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Just out of interest, there's not a majority obsessed with trying to get rid of the manager. The only "anti-manager" song from the crowd today was when he subbed Hojbjerg (which I agree was odd). I'm glad to say that for virtually all the game there was loud support for the team, as there should be. And it was way better than anything at St Mary's. Lots of noise on here pre-match about protests and anti-Pellegrino chants. It didn't happen at all. Maybe the real supporters who go to matches don't lap up everything on here. Not to say I'm happy, but if we jeer and undermine the team for the next two games to try to get rid of the manager, that's potentially 6 points more for a new manager to have to find. Whatever you think of the manager, back the team! Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I'd love him to stay. He can cut the grass. Thing is, halfway through cutting it he'd think it was done, change to the manual mower which has a different, fixed height setting, then at the last minute swap that for the roller over the whole pitch in an attempt to get the height of the grass back even again. It would still be too short, but Les would declare it to be a great job. Perhaps he is...that's why the pitch looks so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Just out of interest, there's not a majority obsessed with trying to get rid of the manager. The only "anti-manager" song from the crowd today was when he subbed Hojbjerg (which I agree was odd). I'm glad to say that for virtually all the game there was loud support for the team, as there should be. And it was way better than anything at St Mary's. Lots of noise on here pre-match about protests and anti-Pellegrino chants. It didn't happen at all. Maybe the real supporters who go to matches don't lap up everything on here. Not to say I'm happy, but if we jeer and undermine the team for the next two games to try to get rid of the manager, that's potentially 6 points more for a new manager to have to find. Whatever you think of the manager, back the team! Sent from my Pixel using TapatalkLet's see what happens if we go more than one goal down against Watford... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Let's see what happens if we go more than one goal down against Watford...Yeah. You may have a point. I'm going, so I'll let you know. I'll be cheering the team on. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glengarryleads Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I'm not starting this for an argument or anything of that nature but I genuinely want to know if there's ANYONE who, if given the option would rather have MP stay than go. Has anyone spoken to anyone who wants this? Like I said, I'm just curious. Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 No one is going to admit it on here are they, It would be like surrendering knowing you were going to get hung Hanged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I want him to stay. I'm getting fooked off with all the responsibility being put onto the manager and none on the players. A lot of our squad have not been pulling their weight, and when they get a sniff of blood, pull even less. Maybe if a squad realises the manager is not going to be forced out by them under performing they will buck their ideas up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I want him to stay. I'm getting fooked off with all the responsibility being put onto the manager and none on the players. A lot of our squad have not been pulling their weight, and when they get a sniff of blood, pull even less. Maybe if a squad realises the manager is not going to be forced out by them under performing they will buck their ideas up. Do you know what the job of a football manager entails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 MP looks likke a dreadful appointment, but who would be better? Another sacked failure like Hughes? And maybe it is the players who got rid of the first MP by under performing think they can do the same again. There is something sick in the club and sacking the manager may not be the answer.Absentee owners doesn't help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plumstead_Saint Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Just out of interest, there's not a majority obsessed with trying to get rid of the manager. The only "anti-manager" song from the crowd today was when he subbed Hojbjerg (which I agree was odd). I'm glad to say that for virtually all the game there was loud support for the team, as there should be. And it was way better than anything at St Mary's. Lots of noise on here pre-match about protests and anti-Pellegrino chants. It didn't happen at all. Maybe the real supporters who go to matches don't lap up everything on here. Not to say I'm happy, but if we jeer and undermine the team for the next two games to try to get rid of the manager, that's potentially 6 points more for a new manager to have to find. Whatever you think of the manager, back the team! Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. Excellent posts - a rarity on this forum at the moment... I was there too and Shroppie describes the atmosphere accurately. glengarryleads sums up my feelings perfectly. Spot on both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Do you know what the job of a football manager entails? Taking the blame for every want-away, half arsed, over paid, player thats had his head turned by agents apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 MP looks likke a dreadful appointment, but who would be better? Another sacked failure like Hughes? And maybe it is the players who got rid of the first MP by under performing think they can do the same again. There is something sick in the club and sacking the manager may not be the answer.Absentee owners doesn't helpPochettino, Strachan, Koeman, Alan Ball for us and countless other successful managers everywhere have also been "sacked failures". Mark Hughes will look at his managerial career and conclude it certainly hasn't been a failure. And in answer to your question - loads of people could be better than Pellegrino who is appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. To some extent I agree. Had a small vocal minority that barracked the board refrained, and the silent majority got their way, Hoddle would have been re-appointed in 2004 and we would more than likely have kept our Premier status. Luggy was appointed instead and the club collapse was guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 MP looks likke a dreadful appointment, but who would be better? Another sacked failure like Hughes? And maybe it is the players who got rid of the first MP by under performing think they can do the same again. There is something sick in the club and sacking the manager may not be the answer.Absentee owners doesn't help May not be the ONLY answer. Would have been an excellent start though - getting rid; I say would have because it's almost seeming to late to arrest the contagion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I am gradually beginning to think he better stay until the summer and then take a look. I can't think of another manager, who could do so much better, even wanting to take over at the moment.I also don't think that the Board are competent enough to find a replacement anyway but if they did LR would once again look much better than I think that he is. Summer is the time for a major clear-out whether still in the PL or Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I said we should give Puel one more season, so he's had time to get used to the feel of the place, the squad, he can see what weaknesses we have and correct them. Yes the football was poor but that's why you sign players with an X Factor, and don't forget he had Boufal that wasn't fit at the start of the season, lost Chaz to injury and lost VVD to injury too. OK, he was wrong to label Redmond as the next messiah, but he got a lot more out of him than Pellegrino has done this season. With Puel it was a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Not to mention he got us 8th and a cup final - yes playing dull football at the end of the season, but outside the top 6, there aren't many that can boast beautiful football. I support our managers, perhaps longer than I should, but with Pellegrino, it's already perfectly clear that he has little idea. Odd line ups that are rotated for very little reason, odd subs, sitting on one goal leads, dropping players (like Hoj) after they've had a great game... etc. OK, he appears to have been brave dropping Forster, but even that happened weeks after it should have. He needs to go before the damage is irreversible, because at the moment we are heading for relegation without a fight. The stats are thus: We have won 4 games all season in the league against clubs that were shyte, and 3 of those are now above us and doing better under new managers. If anyone wants to support him, fair play, you've got bigger cahones than me, but personally he's shown already how poor a manager he is. I wanted us to beat Palace and go on a run, but we didn't even do that. I'd take Hughes, I'd take Bilic, I'd even have Koeman back. In fact it's got to the point where I'd take almost anyone else, because the jolt from Pellegrino's sacking would give the players a kick up the arse and/or a new lease of life. Reed and co need to act, and act fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 6 January, 2018 Share Posted 6 January, 2018 I want him to stay, because it'll mean we've picked up and had a decent Jan. I just get the impression that too many want him to fail to justify their opinions of him. Some of the vitriol is OTT. He's not a clown, an idiot, or clueless, he wasn't just plucked out of nowhere and given the job. He had a stellar playing career, a decent coaching grounding under Rafa and did a pretty good job in his previous role. Maybe he's wrong man, wrong place or not Premier league ready, but the lack of respect and hatred towards a honest and decent young manager is pretty poor form imo. At the moment I'm on the fence. Whether I want him out depends on who the replacement is. I'm defo not in the anybody but Pell camp. Of course when emotions are running high, I'd sack him. Which is why decisions need to be made with the emotion taken out of it. I'd like to know what the senior pros think, Davo & Yoshida, etc , like to know what his sessions are like, are they innovative and bright, what's he like with the nippers, does he put the hours in, is their a toxic feel to the dressing room that needs sorting. It's just to simplistic to call him useless or hopeless. There have been instances in the past where clubs and players needed sorting out, where managers take time to impose their will on a dysfunctional club. Is this one of those situations? Who knows, certainly not me. One thing is for sure, something wasn't quite right last year and something isn't right now. Only Les Reed knows whether that's a managerial issue or something far deeper. If he comes out of this, he'll learn a hell of a lot and become a better manager for it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Just because managers have been sacked does not make them a bad manager. Pellegrino might do well somewhere else like he did last season with Alaves but he just clearly just does not fit with us. To employ him based on his success last season was also stupid and naive as he hadn't really done much of note before that. When we employed Pochettino he had recently left Espanyol bottom of the league. We should look past the short term achievements when looking for our next manager and really look at how they are going to come in to improve our team and how they will fit with this group of players and our "philosophy". Like I believe they did with 2 out of the last 4 appointments. There has to be plenty out there that will to a better job for us than this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 I want him to stay. I'm getting fooked off with all the responsibility being put onto the manager and none on the players. A lot of our squad have not been pulling their weight, and when they get a sniff of blood, pull even less. Maybe if a squad realises the manager is not going to be forced out by them under performing they will buck their ideas up. Don’t buy this theory. Look closely at what the players are doing and you can see they are acting under explicit instructions. I don’t mean missing chances obviously, however their ridiculous positional play is so deliberate and in some cases completely bizarre that it could only be instructions direct from the Manager that cause the players to act in that way... You have to watch closely and in detail to see this being played out ... The coaching is so appalling he just has to go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca155 Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 I want him to stay, because it'll mean we've picked up and had a decent Jan. I just get the impression that too many want him to fail to justify their opinions of him. Some of the vitriol is OTT. He's not a clown, an idiot, or clueless, he wasn't just plucked out of nowhere and given the job. He had a stellar playing career, a decent coaching grounding under Rafa and did a pretty good job in his previous role. Maybe he's wrong man, wrong place or not Premier league ready, but the lack of respect and hatred towards a honest and decent young manager is pretty poor form..... If he comes out of this, he'll learn a hell of a lot and become a better manager Good post spot on and exactly where i am. A poor appointment as there was better around at the time. However we are where we are. You can't keep sacking managers without dealing with the other factors. He is not a fool but he is frustrating. Today he took a load of grief for subbing Holberg for Lemina. Like for like nought wrong with that. What the crowd could sense was another Palace as Saints fell back. His mistake was failing to put Gabbadini on. That wound everybody up and set the tone. He needs to be brave and stop these daft substitutions. Sometimes you do have to play to the gallery. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedyfly Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Ok, his success at Alaves was underpinned by having at his disposal a ton of loanees from Spain's top clubs so his 'success' there was a result of some astute board dealings. He's not had some glittering managerial career so can we stop pretending like he has. He may well be a good coach but the two don't always marry and in his case that appears to be the case. In fact, with the players at his disposal he possibly should have done better there (his team were the third lowest scorers in La Liga - shock) You can also see this the other way, however, in that he can't actually polish the terd that is our first team squad. And for that one part the blame lays elsewhere, it's not his fault he's got the likes of Long and Redmond to work with. However it is his fault he spent 8+ games to start Austin up front instead when it was clear Long was basically ****ing useless. He also appears to be compounding the lack of quality by targeting other equally as bad replacements. It's not all his fault. Granted. But enough of it is to make him complicit in our poor final season standing. I also think whether that is in the Prem or the Championship will be down to how long he remains in the job. He's been shown to be tactically inept, defensively minded (but not defensively organised) and he still doesn't know what his best first team is...or does and thinks that includes some very average footballers, again see Shane Long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggytrousers Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. The best post I've read on this place for many a long time. Sums up the feelings of a lot of us Saints fans. Take a bow that man !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 I said we should give Puel one more season, so he's had time to get used to the feel of the place, the squad, he can see what weaknesses we have and correct them. Yes the football was poor but that's why you sign players with an X Factor, and don't forget he had Boufal that wasn't fit at the start of the season, lost Chaz to injury and lost VVD to injury too. OK, he was wrong to label Redmond as the next messiah, but he got a lot more out of him than Pellegrino has done this season. With Puel it was a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Not to mention he got us 8th and a cup final - yes playing dull football at the end of the season, but outside the top 6, there aren't many that can boast beautiful football. I support our managers, perhaps longer than I should, but with Pellegrino, it's already perfectly clear that he has little idea. Odd line ups that are rotated for very little reason, odd subs, sitting on one goal leads, dropping players (like Hoj) after they've had a great game... etc. OK, he appears to have been brave dropping Forster, but even that happened weeks after it should have. He needs to go before the damage is irreversible, because at the moment we are heading for relegation without a fight. The stats are thus: We have won 4 games all season in the league against clubs that were shyte, and 3 of those are now above us and doing better under new managers. If anyone wants to support him, fair play, you've got bigger cahones than me, but personally he's shown already how poor a manager he is. I wanted us to beat Palace and go on a run, but we didn't even do that. I'd take Hughes, I'd take Bilic, I'd even have Koeman back. In fact it's got to the point where I'd take almost anyone else, because the jolt from Pellegrino's sacking would give the players a kick up the arse and/or a new lease of life. Reed and co need to act, and act fast. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Ok, his success at Alaves was underpinned by having at his disposal a ton of loanees from Spain's top clubs so his 'success' there was a result of some astute board dealings. He's not had some glittering managerial career so can we stop pretending like he has. He may well be a good coach but the two don't always marry and in his case that appears to be the case. In fact, with the players at his disposal he possibly should have done better there (his team were the third lowest scorers in La Liga - shock) You can also see this the other way, however, in that he can't actually polish the terd that is our first team squad. And for that one part the blame lays elsewhere, it's not his fault he's got the likes of Long and Redmond to work with. However it is his fault he spent 8+ games to start Austin up front instead when it was clear Long was basically ****ing useless. He also appears to be compounding the lack of quality by targeting other equally as bad replacements. It's not all his fault. Granted. But enough of it is to make him complicit in our poor final season standing. I also think whether that is in the Prem or the Championship will be down to how long he remains in the job. He's been shown to be tactically inept, defensively minded (but not defensively organised) and he still doesn't know what his best first team is...or does and thinks that includes some very average footballers, again see Shane Long. This too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 MP2 persists with one striker irrespective of the opposition, doesn't play Gabbiadini, stuck with Fraser Foster for too long, took too long to play Charlie Austin, makes untimely and odd substitutions, has no game plan, PELLEGRINO OUT OUT OUT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Feel sorry for him in a way, nobody would have been able to save us from relegation following the absolute mess Puel left this squad in. He isn't showing promise though, and hasn't improved anything that Puel destroyed which is worrying. Probably deserves to stay just as an apology to him for having to manage the clusterf*ck that is an ex-Puel squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Feel sorry for him in a way, nobody would have been able to save us from relegation following the absolute mess Puel left this squad in. He isn't showing promise though, and hasn't improved anything that Puel destroyed which is worrying. Probably deserves to stay just as an apology to him for having to manage the clusterf*ck that is an ex-Puel squad. I think these are the unknown factors that are keeping him in a job. Those making the decisions have alluded to as much in recent interviews. Seems the morale of the players died completely under Puel and the rebuilding job "the hangover" is taking far longer to resolve than some expected. Is Pellegrino a strong enough paracetamol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. Great post. I was brought up on diet of relegation battles that in the main we survived as the club pulled together and fought to save it. The fans supported the team in its hour of need and by god a roaring crowd sparks drive and passion from the team. the toxic atmosphere directed at individual players is frankly scared and i believe significantly responsible for the grave position we are in. The shouts of abuse, jeering and booing at Forster, Redmond and Tadic is nothing more than a disgrace. Yes they have been poor but should we not be trying to build their co fidence not shatter it completely. You reap what you sow and I can see nothing but a relegation team haunted by the pressure to perform in front of a hostile home crowd. Bring back the days of Dellhurst Park, pulling together and supporting our team including the poor players and helps drive them on. If you can’t bring yourself to cheer and sing and shout your support then at least stay silent and refrain from the negative barracking of our less popular players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints-til-i-die Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Great post. I was brought up on diet of relegation battles that in the main we survived as the club pulled together and fought to save it. The fans supported the team in its hour of need and by god a roaring crowd sparks drive and passion from the team. the toxic atmosphere directed at individual players is frankly scared and i believe significantly responsible for the grave position we are in. The shouts of abuse, jeering and booing at Forster, Redmond and Tadic is nothing more than a disgrace. Yes they have been poor but should we not be trying to build their co fidence not shatter it completely. You reap what you sow and I can see nothing but a relegation team haunted by the pressure to perform in front of a hostile home crowd. Bring back the days of Dellhurst Park, pulling together and supporting our team including the poor players and helps drive them on. If you can’t bring yourself to cheer and sing and shout your support then at least stay silent and refrain from the negative barracking of our less popular players. Once again, somebody telling someone else who has paid a lot of money for a season ticket how they are allowed to behave at a football match. Even if I agree that cheering and support is preferable, you can’t tell people who have paid good money What they are and aren’t allowed to do at a match re cheering or complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. A load of ********, you are re-writing history, there were a handful chanting at the back of the Northam and a little bit of booing last season - a million miles from being toxic. The board sacked Puel because the football was dull and ST sales were ****e, Les Reed ****ed up because he thought the squad was better than it was so failed to strengthen enough as well as making a poor change of manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 A load of ********, you are re-writing history, there were a handful chanting at the back of the Northam and a little bit of booing last season - a million miles from being toxic. The board sacked Puel because the football was dull and ST sales were ****e, Les Reed ****ed up because he thought the squad was better than it was so failed to strengthen enough as well as making a poor change of manager.You're wrong it's all the fans fault that Pellegrino can't make a substitution and tactically naive. How dare they criticise a man that has cost us points in a large number of games because you don't sing and show frustration at yet more shocking decisions. Fans were surely entitled to believe after the success of Pardew Adkins Poch and Koeman that Puel would be replaced by someone as bad as Pellegrino? Blame the paying fans blah blah blah. Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 (edited) You're wrong it's all the fans fault that Pellegrino can't make a substitution and tactically naive. How dare they criticise a man that has cost us points in a large number of games because you don't sing and show frustration at yet more shocking decisions. Fans were surely entitled to believe after the success of Pardew Adkins Poch and Koeman that Puel would be replaced by someone as bad as Pellegrino? Blame the paying fans blah blah blah. Sent from my SM-G930F using TapatalkToxic atmosphere I have heard it all now. Toxic was Lowe era setting the Green Army on the fans. Marches and pulling curtains across corporate. A few fans moaning about poor players....toxic my ar8e Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk Edited 7 January, 2018 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 I've never been one to advocate the premature sacking of a manager. For nearly every manager we have ever sacked I have always seen the argument for sticking by them, even if at times I didn't necessarily agree. On this occasion, there has been absolutely no redeeming features of his tenure with us. No evident game plan or style of football that will "come good" once the players adapt to the system. No flashes of tactical brilliance that have won us unexpected points (the draw with Man Utd was more through luck than judgement. They missed a hatful of clear cut chances). No improvements in any player performances at all. In fact, quite the opposite - players have regressed under his leadership. The players appear unmotivated. Sacking the manager would of course be a gamble and there is no guarantee it would produce an improvement in results but there is absolutely no evidence that keeping him is going to produce an upturn in fortunes all of a sudden either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 I've never been one to advocate the premature sacking of a manager. For nearly every manager we have ever sacked I have always seen the argument for sticking by them, even if at times I didn't necessarily agree. On this occasion, there has been absolutely no redeeming features of his tenure with us. No evident game plan or style of football that will "come good" once the players adapt to the system. No flashes of tactical brilliance that have won us unexpected points (the draw with Man Utd was more through luck than judgement. They missed a hatful of clear cut chances). No improvements in any player performances at all. In fact, quite the opposite - players have regressed under his leadership. The players appear unmotivated. Sacking the manager would of course be a gamble and there is no guarantee it would produce an improvement in results but there is absolutely no evidence that keeping him is going to produce an upturn in fortunes all of a sudden either. Good post Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Once again, somebody telling someone else who has paid a lot of money for a season ticket how they are allowed to behave at a football match. Even if I agree that cheering and support is preferable, you can’t tell people who have paid good money What they are and aren’t allowed to do at a match re cheering or complaining. Yes you can do what you like as you pay your money. Get ready to carry on the booing and jeering in the championship as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. If I thought by keeping Pellegrino we would finish 17th I would bite your hand off right now. Also your last line where you say "you had a good manager and blew it" is a strange thing to say (why not use the word "we" instead of "you"?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Sure, I think he should stay. Even if we were in the relegation places. I don't think he's a very good manager, but it seems to me that he's nowhere near as bad as you lot make out. There are red lines for me like fragging your own players, punitive benchings, constant rows with players, etc. MP hasn't done any of that. I wish the results were better but I don't blame him for the poisonous atmosphere at the club. As far as I'm concerned, that's mostly on you lot. Well, that and the economic reality that we are always going to have talent poached. But no, I basically think the poor results are down to a drop in form in the players who have been around about 3 seasons now, who are rightly feeling pretty jaded now that their very good work of the past two or three seasons has not been rewarded with either a) a move into "elite money" or b) genuine support from the fans. I have very little faith in the notion that "the dressing room" got rid of Claude Puel. It's certain though that the toxicity of the fans at the tail end of last season played a huge part. After losing MP1 and Koeman, everything was always going to be on a precipice with regard to any sense of stability at the club. The toxic fans pushed everything right off the cliff, and for what? I am not joking when I say that I see parallels between the club's fortunes and the Brexit situation. Not just because of Puel's regrettable accent, either. So yes, I would rather see the team finish 17th with MP than see him sacked right now. If I felt 99% certain that another manager would make the difference in safety or relegation, I would grudgingly say, okay, fire the guy; but there is very little evidence of that actually working and it's all unknowable insofar as you'll never know what results the team would have had under Pellegrino to close out the season. The problem is: fans (and I speak of other clubs here, not SFC) think they're heroes for getting someone sacked when a new coach brings some life into the side, but never, ever feel any sense of regret or shame when the next guy does squat, or worse. Which is every bit as likely to happen. Meanwhile, the atmosphere at the club becomes ever-more toxic. It seems to me like the moaners who got Puel fired, rather than taking some pleasure from what the team did accomplish in 2014-2017, are just out for a repeat of the power trip they got from running the frenchman out of town. Personally I think there's a lot that Pellegrino is getting wrong, particularly the timing of substitutions. But I also recognize that he has far more to consider than I, or any fan, does. To name just one thing, he knows far more about the capabilities of, and the fitness levels of various players than the fans do, or ever will. And you know what? Managers are *by definition* going to make a lot of mistakes. It's impossible not to! Players are going to have good games, bad games, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons. Nobody in the club or locker room seems like they're making a deliberate choice to try and ruin the team, which is more than i can say for a lot of the people on this forum. So, no thanks. Pellegrino in. You had a good manager, and blew it. Reap the reward. If I thought by keeping Pellegrino we would finish 17th I would bite your hand off right now. Also your last line where you say "you had a good manager and blew it" is a strange thing to say (why not use the word "we" instead of "you"?). Finally do you really think Puel was a "good" manager? Serious question because that is certainly not how I would describe him. Puel's reputation has soared on the back of Pellegrino's shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 Why don't we send him out on loan to Yeovil or Exeter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 7 January, 2018 Share Posted 7 January, 2018 A load of ********, you are re-writing history, there were a handful chanting at the back of the Northam and a little bit of booing last season - a million miles from being toxic. The board sacked Puel because the football was dull and ST sales were ****e, Les Reed ****ed up because he thought the squad was better than it was so failed to strengthen enough as well as making a poor change of manager. I agree. This guy seems like a deluxe ALWAYS_SFC; everything is the fans fault, we're all terrible (except him) and we deserve to be relegated. If it really was down to the fans MP would never have survived that Leicester result. The fact is Puel play some pretty poor football which seemed to get worse as the season went on. MP trying to defend a 1-0 lead against teams like Palace, Udders and Fulham is no different to Puel playing for a 0-0 against Stoke, Hull, Bournemouth and Be'er Sheva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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