VVD Replacement

[Dusic]

We are going to replace our best player having just sold for £75m, right?

 

Would be asking for trouble to continue with Hoedt (2nd choice), Yoshida (3rd), Stephens (4th), Bednarek (needs a loan), Gardos (training mannequin), especially given the quality we have had in that position in the recent past.

 

Have seen the Mawson link but that is more likely in the summer should we stay up.

 

Crying out for a powerful defensive leader having lost Fonte and VVD inside a year. Yoshida cannot lead a backline and Hoedt is still adjusting to the PL and seems more understated.To rake in that kind of money and not buy one is what gets you relegated.

 

Over to you, lads.

 

 

 

[ally_uk]

Get that julien or diop from Toulouse

[Shroppie]

Hoedt was the replacement. There won't be another one.

 

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[red&white56]

Shouldn't this be the opportunity for Hoedt or Yoshida to step up and take their chance?

[UpweySaint]

In theory yes but to be honest Hoedt alongside either Yosh or Stephens doesn't fill me with terror.

 

It's our lack of goals that I think will sink us, we have enough good spells in games where we either don't create or finish chances that then allow other teams into games.

 

If we can strengthen throughout brilliant, add a CB and a keeper to the list. I fear we realistically can only secure one or two quality additions this month and I would rather see them in more advanced positions.

[shurlock]

Shouldn't this be the opportunity for Hoedt or Yoshida to step up and take their chance?

 

You mean like it was an opportunity for Yoshida, Stephens or Bednarek to fill Fonte's position?

[CB Fry]

You mean like it was an opportunity for Yoshida, Stephens or Bednarek to fill Fonte's position?

Stephens/Yoshi I thought did more than okay for half a season, and to be honest I'd like to see Stephens get another half season.

 

I know people do like to simultaneously complain that a) we don't invest in replacements because we are cheapskates and b) what's happened to our young players coming through its a disgrace so obviously as a solution that would never do.

 

It won't surprise me if we don't sign a CB but then I didn't see Hoedt coming so you never know.

[Turkish]

Hoedt was the replacement. There won't be another one.

 

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There should be. We didn't replace Fonte last January despite Les stating he wouldn't be sold until we had a replacement in.

 

Last January was absolutely shambolic. They knew Fonte was going for months yet messed about and ended up signing a free transfer, out of contract player, after the window had shut who took two months to get and hardly played anyway. We then ended up with the worst central defensive partnership in the league to finish the season.

 

Failure Last January possibly cost us the league cup, this year will likely cost us our premier league status. We have desperately needed 3 players and a replacement for our manager for months.if this January is anything like last year reeds position becomes untenable.

[BotleySaint]

I fear we realistically can only secure one or two quality additions this month and I would rather see them in more advanced positions.

Agree. Our possession game isn't bad.. It just almost always comes to nothing.

[Lighthouse]

A year ago we had a highly experienced European cup winner, along side arguably the best centre half in the league. If we've replaced them with Hoedt and Stephens I am a pretty disappointed TBH.

 

Don't get me wrong, Hoedt and JS have looked decent but that's a pretty big downgrade. Given that Gardos and Bednarek are nowhere near the first team, I would like to see a decent addition somewhere in there.

[Avenue_Saint]

Good thread. Keep bumping it so the club plants can go feed back to their masters!

 

Like **** are we not replacing him.

[Avenue_Saint]

Stephens/Yoshi I thought did more than okay for half a season, and to be honest I'd like to see Stephens get another half season.

 

I know people do like to simultaneously complain that a) we don't invest in replacements because we are cheapskates and b) what's happened to our young players coming through its a disgrace so obviously as a solution that would never do.

 

It won't surprise me if we don't sign a CB but then I didn't see Hoedt coming so you never know.

 

You don't half chat some **** on here fry!

 

Yoshi who has little aerial awareness if any at all and still to this day glaringly fails to pick up runners, and no matter how much of a pretty fitting face you think Stephens has, he hasn't showered himself in glory in terms of his positional play, getting turned inside out far too easily, here you are doing the board's bidding again and prepping the (saintsweb) fan base for another 'route out' card for them

 

Keep on typing....

[shurlock]

Stephens/Yoshi I thought did more than okay for half a season, and to be honest I'd like to see Stephens get another half season.

 

I know people do like to simultaneously complain that a) we don't invest in replacements because we are cheapskates and b) what's happened to our young players coming through its a disgrace so obviously as a solution that would never do.

 

It won't surprise me if we don't sign a CB but then I didn't see Hoedt coming so you never know.

 

They were OK -and they certainly weren't our biggest problem. But having been built on an exceptional defense (by contrast, we could be very inconsistent in front of goal under Koeman), it was a large drop off. Stephens was good in one-on-one situations and decent on the ball but his reading of the game and positional sense left a lot to be desired and wasn’t as physically imposing as you might expect. Yoshida improved massively last season but was still Yoshida. No longer did I feel confident that we could nick a goal and let the defense do the rest.

Edited 14 January, 2018 by shurlock

[S-Clarke]

Hoedt needs an equal top level partner. Now we've lost VVD we are without certain attributes at CB - namely height, strength, pace and ability in the air. It'll continue to snooker us if we rely on Yoshida and Stephens.

 

I like Yoshida, he's a decent player and has been more than decent for us, but that doesn't excuse the fact that we need to fill the VVD hole.

[Dusic]

We are so weak in this position, have £75m and yet don't appear to see the need to bring anyone in.

 

Negligent.

[Greedyfly]

Hoedt is an adequate replacement with Stephens a young CB with potential. Unfortunately if the other 8 outfield players are trained to invite pressure onto them, they will crack regardless. It's the setup in this instance, not the personnel, as is the case in most positions. Up top being the exception.

[larryhagman]

Just over a year ago we lost Fonte and Van Dijk, and results and confidence started to dip. We've replaced one of them with Hoedt, now please can we replace the other one, or we will continue being defensively weak. A centre forward with Austin injured is a necessity too, and I wouldn't say no to an attacking player (Walcott, or more likely Gaitan).

 

But most important is a centre back. For me right now, Yoshida and Stephens are ok as squad players, but as first choice no way. I'm sure if we sign a quality centre back to play alongside Hoedt then we'll stay up. How can we lose Fonte and Van Dijk, and only sign Hoedt as a premier league team? Baffling, really. If we do go down I think that will be the reason: not replacing the centre backs adequately, and not playing Austin earlier in the season when we had an easy run of games.

[Ultimatt]

Hoedt is an adequate replacement with Stephens a young CB with potential. Unfortunately if the other 8 outfield players are trained to invite pressure onto them, they will crack regardless. It's the setup in this instance, not the personnel, as is the case in most positions. Up top being the exception.

 

Disagree. Our defence is not organised at all. So many times the opposition gets players free and free headers. Stephens has a habit of pressing out which leaves gaps in behind. We're weak all over and defence is no exception.

[East Kent Saint]

Decent centre backs are very hard to come by these days so they now cost £75M , I can't see the club being able to pay for or attract a top centre back given the situation we are in . Who could we stand a chance of signing ??

[WALK DMC]

Just over a year ago we lost Fonte and Van Dijk, and results and confidence started to dip. We've replaced one of them with Hoedt, now please can we replace the other one, or we will continue being defensively weak. A centre forward with Austin injured is a necessity too, and I wouldn't say no to an attacking player (Walcott, or more likely Gaitan).

 

But most important is a centre back. For me right now, Yoshida and Stephens are ok as squad players, but as first choice no way. I'm sure if we sign a quality centre back to play alongside Hoedt then we'll stay up. How can we lose Fonte and Van Dijk, and only sign Hoedt as a premier league team? Baffling, really. If we do go down I think that will be the reason: not replacing the centre backs adequately, and not playing Austin earlier in the season when we had an easy run of games.

 

 

I agree, although I think that part of the problem is that while each of our centre halves have some good strengths (i.e. skill on the ball, decent pace), they are too similar and none of them have the physicality or ability in the air to play against direct bombardment. It's probably why we were better playing Man U (without Lukaku) than Watford as their styles were so different. Silva clearly noticed this yesterday and towards the end replaced his pacey forward with another big bulky substitute to supplement Deeney.

 

While I'd like to sign an outstanding prospect for £20m, our focus is to stay up and decent bargains are difficult to find particularly in January, so a cheaper, more mature, physically commanding centre half on loan would work as a short term solution, until we can regroup in the summer and plan a longer term recruitment strategy. I'm not a fan of Wes Morgan, but if somebody like him played yesterday in the 2nd half, I believe that we'd have comfortably secured 3 points.

 

I just hope that start to get linked with a few centre halves soon ...

[Greedyfly]

Decent centre backs are very hard to come by these days so they now cost £75M , I can't see the club being able to pay for or attract a top centre back given the situation we are in . Who could we stand a chance of signing ??

 

So you don't disagree at all. Player for player, Bertrand Hoedt and Cedric are plenty good enough for a top half table team and Stephens had plenty of potential. However, as with all facets of the team except attack (who don't have sufficient personnel), it's the setup (or organisation for arguments sake), that is the issue.

[Whitey Grandad]

Disagree. Our defence is not organised at all. So many times the opposition gets players free and free headers. Stephens has a habit of pressing out which leaves gaps in behind. We're weak all over and defence is no exception.

 

I agree with you. [emoji41] Stephens is often running off chasing rabbits.

[Chez]

Stephens is a great prospect, but he doesn't win enough in the air. That was Yoshidas biggest failing when he came. He has got nastier, but when push comes to shove the likes of Benteke WILL win that important header when Yoshida or Stevens don't get a run up or the chance to set themselves. HOedt has the height but needs to be more imposing.

 

I don't think we will sign a CB. HOedt was signed to replace VVD. That is a problem for us, but there is always MOPo tactics to blame if we want to gloss over this position deficiency. This squad is go enough to be too eight...havent you heard?

[Lets B Avenue]

I agree with you. [emoji41] Stephens is often running off chasing rabbits.

 

I thought Rupert had personally shot them all, before we moved into the stadium?

[aintforever]

Stephens and Yoshida are OK as backup but we definitely need a replacement for VVD. I don’t expect the club will bother though.

[Window Cleaner]

Stephens is a great prospect, but he doesn't win enough in the air. That was Yoshidas biggest failing when he came. He has got nastier, but when push comes to shove the likes of Benteke WILL win that important header when Yoshida or Stevens don't get a run up or the chance to set themselves. HOedt has the height but needs to be more imposing.

 

I don't think we will sign a CB. HOedt was signed to replace VVD. That is a problem for us, but there is always MOPo tactics to blame if we want to gloss over this position deficiency. This squad is go enough to be too eight...havent you heard?

 

Stephens is 24 at the end of the month, prospect time is wearing on. VvD is 26 isn't he?

[Dusic]

Judging by the latest Wilson piece we won't replace VVD.

 

I expect that circumstances will occur that will mean Bednarek starting at least one league game before the end of the season so hopefully he is good enough. Yoshida currently injured so he is our first backup.

 

IMO each of our CBs is currently elevated one place above what their true squad level should be.

 

Hoedt is a 2nd choice, Yoshida 3rd, Stephens 4th and Bednarek out on loan learning his trade.

 

From Fonte-Lovren, Fonte-Alderweireld, Fonte-VVD to Hoedt-Yoshida is unquestionably a big downgrade. Ever since VVD got vardied we have shipped more goals than for the 3 years before - simply because the defenders are worse.

[Useful Idiot]

Judging by the latest Wilson piece we won't replace VVD.

 

I expect that circumstances will occur that will mean Bednarek starting at least one league game before the end of the season so hopefully he is good enough. Yoshida currently injured so he is our first backup.

 

IMO each of our CBs is currently elevated one place above what their true squad level should be.

 

Hoedt is a 2nd choice, Yoshida 3rd, Stephens 4th and Bednarek out on loan learning his trade.

 

From Fonte-Lovren, Fonte-Alderweireld, Fonte-VVD to Hoedt-Yoshida is unquestionably a big downgrade. Ever since VVD got vardied we have shipped more goals than for the 3 years before - simply because the defenders are worse.

 

What are you talking about? As has been said by other -more knowledgeable- posters than I, we clearly have a squad that's easily capable of finishing in the top 8, if only we had a better manager!

 

If you average out the goals scored per game over their career for our best starting XI, between them we must get an expected return of about 1.1 per match. (Obviously, without Austin that drops to around 0.8, if we add this journeyman that we seem fixated on signing, then we might push it all the way back up to 1!).

 

Any weakness in our defense is more than adequately compensated for with that fearsome firepower up front.

 

All I can say is that the transfer committee obviously know exactly what they're up to!

[Saint Garrett]

Definitely need a replacement at CB, we can't deal with any kind of physicality and we are too weak in the air. A dominant CB would give me more confidence of staying up.

[Baird of the land]

Hoedt was clearly the Van Dijk replacement.

Stephens has stepped into the position that an aging fonte departed and compete with yoshida

Bednarek was recruited to be 4th choice and provide aerial balance.

Unless we decide to play 5 at the back I can’t see us wanting to parachute in a new high price center back this window.

[Badger]

Get that julien or diop from Toulouse

 

That link seems to have died.

[Saint Garrett]

Hoedt was clearly the Van Dijk replacement.

Stephens has stepped into the position that an aging fonte departed and compete with yoshida

Bednarek was recruited to be 4th choice and provide aerial balance.

Unless we decide to play 5 at the back I can’t see us wanting to parachute in a new high price center back this window.

 

Well I think if this is the case, then we'll get relegated. Only one who is good enough right now for the Prem is Hoedt...Stephens, Yoshida, Bednarek & Gardos are all 3/4 choice which is why is was so weird when we signed Bednarek in the summer. He should have been competing with Stephens as 4th/5th choice CB.

 

Apart from Hoedt, I'm not sure any would be good enough yet for the championship next season either.

[sammysaint]

We need better back up fullbacks as well, McQueen and Peid are awful, Targett will be okay as a back up but needs game time on loan somewhere soon.

 

The fact our defence if injuries and suspension happens could be Peid, Stephens Yoshi and McQueen or Targett is embarrassing and that line up has happened this season.

 

Gabba needs some supply and starts, we need a attacking mid and winger to help with the goals as both him and Austin can get 10-12 goals each in the premier league if rotated right.

[LaptopSaint]

[quote=Saint Garrett;2580028

 

Apart from Hoedt, I'm not sure any would be good enough yet for the championship next season either.

 

Comedy

[Dusic]

Definitely missing a defensive leader.

 

Stephens, unfortunately for a centre back, is better on the ball than off it.

[Badger]

For physical presence the two names touted on here and in the press have been Jansen at Leeds, and Julien from Toulose.

 

Can't see Jansen being keen given our league position, although that can of course be overcome by £££. Don't know much about Julien, but neither have played at the PL level before so represent a risk.

[farawaysaint]

Fairly happy with Yoshi, Stephens and Hoedt tbh. Decent mid table pairings.

[Batman]

Fairly happy with Yoshi, Stephens and Hoedt tbh. Decent mid table pairings.

Well, they clearly aren't are they

[SuperSAINT]

Pontus Jansson for when we have to face giants.

[Badger]

Fairly happy with Yoshi, Stephens and Hoedt tbh. Decent mid table pairings.

 

Too lightweight and fragile, both physically and mentally, pairing any two of those. Any of them would improve with a stronger CB partner alongside them.

[farawaysaint]

Well, they clearly aren't are they

 

Eh, we have bigger problems than defence. Such as tactical set up, useless midfield and no one who can find the back of the net.

[Batman]

Eh, we have bigger problems than defence. Such as tactical set up, useless midfield and no one who can find the back of the net.

does that means we should not get an obvious upgrade at CB for the team?

[Turkish]

Stephens is such a downgrade on Van Dijk it's scandelous. His defending for the goal today was pathetic, Kane simply brushed him out of the way. Got away with a few bits today as well. For a centre half he is poor in the air. Realistically his current level is 4th choice. Definitely need to buy someone to play alongside Hoedt as Yoshida shouldn't be first choice either.

[BotleySaint]

Not sure the club are even looking for a CB as they believe with Stephens, Hoedt and Yoshida we have enough.

[Avenue_Saint]

Get that Janssen in from Leeds. Only paid £3m odd quid. Flash them 12/15m, they'll open for business

[SuperSAINT]

[saint1977]

Not sure the club are even looking for a CB as they believe with Stephens, Hoedt and Yoshida we have enough.

 

Reed is so complacent/objectives not to spend money probably that this could be true.

[rooney]

We need a big lump at CB to replace VVD similar when Pardew brought in Rhaidi.

[supersonic]

If Hoedt is VVD’s replacement then we still haven’t replaced Fonte.

 

We certainly are missing some leadership there.

 

In our last 19 games we’ve conceded 31 goals, only kept 2 clean sheets and have thrown away our last 5 winning positions.

[doddisalegend]

If Hoedt is VVD’s replacement then we still haven’t replaced Fonte.

 

We certainly are missing some leadership there.

 

In our last 19 games we’ve conceded 31 goals, only kept 2 clean sheets and have thrown away our last 5 winning positions.

 

 

One stat that used to come up in the Koeman era was the lack of shots we allowed on our goal iirc we had some of the lowest shots on our own goal stats in the league.

 

That wasn't just about the back four though and was more about the protection the rest of the team gave the back line (and Forster in particular) that started to slide last season ( partly due I suspect to only having one proper DM available) and has carried on this season.

 

Chance of us replacing VVD with someone of the same quality is pretty slim but we could certainly look at improving our defensive team shape by controlling the midfield. Play Romeu, Lemina and Hoj as our preferred midfield and press more rather than trying to defend space deep in numbers would most likely improve our defence.