Why we are where we are -

[Simon3737]

We are where we are because of 2 bad appointments. Simple as that.

 

We proved you can sell and replace well and move on. The summer proved trying anything else doesn't exactly help.

 

We've spent, and largely spent well. Last season was dodgy, this season is a disaster. But I find it frustrating people make so many excuses for the manager. They criticise the board, say we haven't spent when we clearly have, demand strikers when we spent a fortune on Gabbiadini.

 

Pellegrino has a very expensive squad and a squad proven to be capable of competing for 8th at least. That's where it should be. Any debate beyond that about ambition, signings etc is for another time. We have a manager who is guiding a good squad to relegation without even a whimper. I can forgive a poor appointment, but not the failure to sack him.

 

Totally agree with that, and with lots of other posts on this thread too.

 

The thing I disagree with is people suggesting we need a cash injection to keep going.

 

We’ve just made £62 million profit on one player. Mr Gao can buy himself a luxury yacht, put no new money into the club, make two or three first team ready signings and still have change left over to sack Pellegrino.

 

Where we’ve gone wrong IMHO in the last couple of years is appointing two I’ll suited managers and trying to change our successful strategy by believing pay rises and longer contracts would stop players wanting to “move to the next level”.

[captain sensible]

Fitz...Great Post...but here's my two bobs worth! If you recall, there was a massive playground punch up between Messrs Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, Trant etc and when they had punched the living daylights out of each other, along came Markus Liebherr, claimed the prize, and walked away with it. Markus Liebherr never ever was a closet Saints supporter, he was a business man and saw a big profit with the ultimate boy toy...a Premeirship Football Club with probably the best and most loyal supporters money could buy!

KL, the Gao family see SFC as nothing but a cash cow. The Southampton Way...Cortese, Reed et all just want to turn the Club into some sort of global Chelsea brand. They have no affinity with people who were born and bred in Hampshire, the Club that was/is a staple part of the community for most of our lives.

For me, it is disappointing that in Hampshire, there is not one Saints supporting businessman that has the wealth, to keep our money in the Club and in the community. As I said, I don't believe we are a global brand, or like an American Football or Ice Hockey team, and that is what they are trying to turn the club into...with our support.

[9-3]

At last a bit of humanitarianism!

 

FF thread was a very well written work.

Of course there will be controversy on this article and more so because of FF and of his allegiance to SFC.

 

We all get heated and passionate on these forums and I include myself, but I don't like seeing it becoming abusive and personal.

 

Well I took the time to read all the posts as this is an intetesting thread.

 

Its sad when a good debate is dragged down by personal insults. It's almost as if the poster doesn't have the confidence in their opinion, so they need to spice it up a little.

 

Like CB Fry I don't fear relegation. Football exists beyond these rarified walls. I don't want it to happen, but it won't be the end of the world.

 

I'm sure those running the club care deeply, and are desperately trying to rectify the situation.

 

I guess few of us feel that MP has a future at Saints. Sacking Puel may look like a mistake, but I hated his football, so I remain comfortable with that decision. If he has learnt his lesson well good luck to him.

 

For me a new manager would add a spark, but it would also need less back seat driving from those above.

 

The fortunes of all clubs ebb and flow with the amount of investment and quality of leadership. Saints are no different to anyone else.

 

We've had a great run, but i have learnt over the years to enjoy it such periods as they don't last for ever.

 

At the moment Saints are cash rich, assett poor, and have leadership which is a bit wobbly.

 

That makes the club very vulnerable. The only good thing is that after Bertrand, we won't have to put up with any more obnoxious sales, as the rest aren't good enough.

 

We all know it just needs a few wins, a player to start sparking. Us fans are a fickle lot and hopeless addicts.

 

Maybe a meaningless win over a weakened Championship side, will be the catalyst to better things.

 

Or maybe a humiliating defeat will be a bridge too far for those in charge.

 

Even such uncertainty is exciting.

 

I love it see you at Fulham.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Winnersaint]

OP was thoughtful and well put as have been a good deal of other posts on this thread. FWIW the players confidence seemed to nosedive after Wembley last year and translated into a woeful end to the season. As is often the case this lack of confidence affects form and very often continues into the following season. This is no endorsement of Pellegrino by any means but this precedes his tenure and falls fairly and squarely into Puel's lap. Looking at our rise, the very best we probably could have expected was to win one of the domestic cups. We were never going to get in the ECL and didn't have the squad for an extended tilt at the Europa League. The EFL Cup was our big chance, but despite playing well enough to win we came up short. Cue dismal end to season and start to this. You only have to look back to Leicester's season's end in 2015 and start to the following one for a graphic illustration of how it can go the other way!

[GarrettIvo]

Openly admitted? Jesus wept.

 

I said you need to be fortunate to have an owner willing to pi ss money away and we were fortunate. Most of the dins on here won't ever thank her for it so I can't blame her for selling up and let some other mug have a go.

 

Our fans are largely c u n t s of the highest order.

[Millbrook Saint]

Personally think the problem lies at board level, where as fans we view success as winning on the pitch, good football as a bonus. The board seem to view success differently, making a profit seems to be how they view success, for a while this worked, we sold good players at a premium, bought cheaper replacements who turned out good, decent managers got them playing. We had people like mitchell identifying players and managers, maybe not koeman but who knows if he was on a list that old les picked up. Then the managers get peeved, lack of ambition, better opportunities so leave.

 

Les takes on the mantle of choosing managers who he views as accepting of his ways, puel, now pellegrino, probably grateful at getting a way in to the premier league. Players bought by les with the manager not involved, redmond. Potential managers interested until they see how they have to work, Tuchel. Suddenly les controls everything, the owners just want profit, success deemed as just staying in the league as cheaply as possible. Few months down the line and the club realise they don't have the players or manager to stay in the league, the board is crippled with fear, no football people at the club to help old les out of the hole he's dug us.

 

Now we have talk of Walcott, Sturridge, Dembele trying to get out of the mess we're in, they're not interested in playing for a clueless manager and a sinking club, so we'll end up paying over the odds for second rate players in a desperate attempt to stay up. Meanwhile pellegrino will stand on the touchline, arms folded, gaping gormlessly as our opponents change things round during the game and he has no clue how to counter it

[Roo1976]

Personally think the problem lies at board level, where as fans we view success as winning on the pitch, good football as a bonus. The board seem to view success differently, making a profit seems to be how they view success, for a while this worked, we sold good players at a premium, bought cheaper replacements who turned out good, decent managers got them playing. We had people like mitchell identifying players and managers, maybe not koeman but who knows if he was on a list that old les picked up. Then the managers get peeved, lack of ambition, better opportunities so leave.

 

Les takes on the mantle of choosing managers who he views as accepting of his ways, puel, now pellegrino, probably grateful at getting a way in to the premier league. Players bought by les with the manager not involved, redmond. Potential managers interested until they see how they have to work, Tuchel. Suddenly les controls everything, the owners just want profit, success deemed as just staying in the league as cheaply as possible. Few months down the line and the club realise they don't have the players or manager to stay in the league, the board is crippled with fear, no football people at the club to help old les out of the hole he's dug us.

 

Now we have talk of Walcott, Sturridge, Dembele trying to get out of the mess we're in, they're not interested in playing for a clueless manager and a sinking club, so we'll end up paying over the odds for second rate players in a desperate attempt to stay up. Meanwhile pellegrino will stand on the touchline, arms folded, gaping gormlessly as our opponents change things round during the game and he has no clue how to counter it

 

Good lad it has to be the Board thats paid to make these awful money over clubs ability to stay in this league desicions us as loyal fans wouldnt let the best assets to be stripped down every other season would we?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

We didn’t lose the club in 2006, or when Rupert came in, or any other random date in history. We never had the club in the first place, we’ve never been listened to, look how long it took for Branfoots removal. Even if you take it to the extreme and have fan ownership , it still won’t be “ours”, it’ll be a select few of the fan base.

 

We are where we are , because that’s where we sit in the grand scheme of things. Around the middle of the top flight. Make good decisions, have a good season and we could be 5th, 6th, 7th make bad ones and we could be relegated. We’ve overachieved the past 4 years ( except in the cups, where forum gods Poch & Koeman certainly under achieved), it’s unreasonable to expect that to continue. It’s just not possible, people make mistakes in life, things go against you, others overachieve pushing you further down. The important thing is how you react to bad decisions, how you turn things round, thankfully we’re not fan owned because the reaction to adversity most on here are showing is ****ing pathetic.

 

I don’t buy into the narrative that we’re complacent or incompetent. Well meaning decisions, not complacent ones have turned out to be wrong. Complacent implies, lazy uncaring. I bet Reed and co worked as hard with the Boufal signing as with Mane. I doubt for one minute they thought, it’s worked before, we’ll just sign him regardless. There was time and effort spent on due diligence, I don’t believe they just assumed that just because they’d identified him ,he’d be a hit. Reeds been in the game too long not to realise that it’s not an exact science. On paper Boufal looks every bit a good a signing as Mane. On paper and after the start he made, nobody would guess that Gabbi would struggle so much this season, on paper Lemina looks a good buy, as does Wes. Who would ever have believed The Mummy would be so abject, had we sold him to Liverpool at the same time as Mane, they’d have been another meltdown. On paper (and this won’t be popular) the young manager had just a good a pedigree as Poch. Clearly the games not played on paper, and I’d imagine long term Reed will end up paying the price for these (in hindsight) poor decisions. I know I’m waffling, but the point I’m trying to make is that nothing fundamentally changed the past 12 months. We sell our best players and we try and replace them with decent prospects, we don’t go down the Fat Sam or Davey Moyes managerial route, we do what we did previously. It worked before, it isn’t working at the moment, that’s life. It’s not some form of complacency, not Reeds ego going into overdrive, not some sort of money making scam by the Chinese, it’s not anything sinister. It’s just football and in football poor decisions, however well meaning or however good on paper, cost you. They cost the Chelsea’s & Liverpool’s of this world champions league places, they cost teams of our size relegation.

 

I’m sure Reed & co are as worried about relegation as every single one of us. I’d imagine having all the facts and figures in front of him, wages & revenue wise, will keep him awake at night. If I ran the club, I’d have the manager out by now and Martin O’Neil & Roy Keane in situ. But I respect what Reeds done at this club, respect that he has a different opinion than mine ( and his counts). Any decision he makes will be made in the genuine belief it’s what is best for the club, let’s just hope it turns out to be the correct one. But to try and pin point a place in time or highlight a particular decision or policy shift where it all started to go wrong is ludicrous imo .

 

 

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So in summary quite a few consecutive bad decisions have caused this situation, but it is ok because "that's football". Traditional British industrial thinking applied to football.

Your post is utter nonsense posing as reasoned analysis.

[CB Fry]

So in summary quite a few consecutive bad decisions have caused this situation, but it is ok because "that's football". Traditional British industrial thinking applied to football.

Your post is utter nonsense posing as reasoned analysis.

So your recommendation is for SFC to not make consecutive bad decisions?

 

Good idea. Write them a letter.

[Fan The Flames]

I thought the day the music died was when Aqua brought out 'I'm a Barbie Girl'.

[sadoldgit]

If anyone wants to read a well written piece about The Southampton Way and where we are now then go to Tom William's article today in St Mary's Musing. No histrionics. No knee jerk reaction. Just a well thought out and written piece about our philosophy and how it relates to the current situation. It makes a pleasant change to read something that isnt full of the usual bile. Sorry but I cant post the link.

[sadoldgit]

If we are having to sell players for big money every season that isn't very sustainable. As they mentioned on Sky the other day doing that requires a near perfect recruitment every season. Once you stop finding the future vvds or manes that will have an impact on your finances long term. I don't think we have anyone who is worth £30m+ now.

 

But we dont do we. We had to sell initially to get things back on track but we dont have to any more. VVD went because we were offered silly money and he clearly didnt want to be here. Every club aims to get its recruitment right every season and every club buys duds. That would be a problem for us if we were reliant on buying and selling, but we are more self sustainable now so less of an issue.

[Rory Peepa]

Yeah, we definitely would have finished top 4.

 

No doubt about it.

 

None at all.

 

Yep. We would. But look at what happened to Leeds. No guarantee of building any kind of legacy.

 

 

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[Nordic Saint]

So your recommendation is for SFC to not make consecutive bad decisions?

 

Good idea. Write them a letter.

 

I think even you must realize that his recommendation would be to replace the people who are making the consecutive bad decisions: Reed and Krueger.

[DuncanRG]

If anyone wants to read a well written piece about The Southampton Way and where we are now then go to Tom William's article today in St Mary's Musing. No histrionics. No knee jerk reaction. Just a well thought out and written piece about our philosophy and how it relates to the current situation. It makes a pleasant change to read something that isnt full of the usual bile. Sorry but I cant post the link.

 

It's here for anyone interested. It's good, sensible, very long and quotes Camus.

[Depressed of Shirley]

It's here for anyone interested. It's good, sensible, very long and quotes Camus.

 

Thanks for posting, very interesting and in my view, accurate picture of the club at present.

[Dalek2003]

It's here for anyone interested. It's good, sensible, very long and quotes Camus.

 

A very good read indeed. It is harder for a club like Saints to stay in the Premier League than many appreciate. Looks like we lost our way a bit and some complacency that was setting in a few years ago, although admittedly not obviously apparent to most supporters.

[Give it to Ron]

A very good read indeed. It is harder for a club like Saints to stay in the Premier League than many appreciate. Looks like we lost our way a bit and some complacency that was setting in a few years ago, although admittedly not obviously apparent to most supporters.

Especially Norwich?

 

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[Turkish]

The reason we are where we are is because there is no leadership on or off the pitch.

 

My thoughts on Cortese are well known and he was out of control and needed to be got shot off, but not replacing him was lunacy. For the last 4 years we've had absent owners, which even under the Chinese fella doesn't show any sign of changing. A part time "chairman" who flies in and out every now and again, speaks a lot of waffle and then clears off for a few months. Then there is Les Reed, originally appointed in 2010 to be head of football development and support but now appears to be the most senior full time employee at the club which is idiotic.

 

Every club has someone who ultimately carries the can to the owners for the decisions made Levy at Spurs, Woodward at Man united. it was pretty telling that when asked outright by Blackmore who is making the decisions at the club, Kruger dodged it and said it was a group, then asked who is this group accountable to stop them continually making bad decisions he dodged it again. Seems to me there is a small group of people with free reign to be making the calls and none of them are being held accountable if they get them wrong. We got away with it when Koeman was here because he was an experienced, strong manager but now we've had two less imposing characters as managers the lack of leadership throughout the club is coming home to roost.

[shurlock]

The reason we are where we are is because there is no leadership on or off the pitch.

 

My thoughts on Cortese are well known and he was out of control and needed to be got shot off, but not replacing him was lunacy. For the last 4 years we've had absent owners, which even under the Chinese fella doesn't show any sign of changing. A part time "chairman" who flies in and out every now and again, speaks a lot of waffle and then clears off for a few months. Then there is Les Reed, originally appointed in 2010 to be head of football development and support but now appears to be the most senior full time employee at the club which is idiotic.

 

Every club has someone who ultimately carries the can to the owners for the decisions made Levy at Spurs, Woodward at Man united. it was pretty telling that when asked outright by Blackmore who is making the decisions at the club, Kruger dodged it and said it was a group, then asked who is this group accountable to stop them continually making bad decisions he dodged it again. Seems to me there is a small group of people with free reign to be making the calls and none of them are being held accountable if they get them wrong. We got away with it when Koeman was here because he was an experienced, strong manager but now we've had two less imposing characters as managers the lack of leadership throughout the club is coming home to roost.

 

Good post pal.

 

Do you know why Gareth Rogers left?

[SKD]

The reason we are where we are is because there is no leadership on or off the pitch.

 

My thoughts on Cortese are well known and he was out of control and needed to be got shot off, but not replacing him was lunacy. For the last 4 years we've had absent owners, which even under the Chinese fella doesn't show any sign of changing. A part time "chairman" who flies in and out every now and again, speaks a lot of waffle and then clears off for a few months. Then there is Les Reed, originally appointed in 2010 to be head of football development and support but now appears to be the most senior full time employee at the club which is idiotic.

 

Every club has someone who ultimately carries the can to the owners for the decisions made Levy at Spurs, Woodward at Man united. it was pretty telling that when asked outright by Blackmore who is making the decisions at the club, Kruger dodged it and said it was a group, then asked who is this group accountable to stop them continually making bad decisions he dodged it again. Seems to me there is a small group of people with free reign to be making the calls and none of them are being held accountable if they get them wrong. We got away with it when Koeman was here because he was an experienced, strong manager but now we've had two less imposing characters as managers the lack of leadership throughout the club is coming home to roost.

 

Absolutely spot on. For all Cortese’s sins (a lot of them), he was an excellent leader.

[Wade Garrett]

I should have read this thread before starting a thread on Christian Purslow. Would fill the Cortese role perfectly, but probably out of our league.

[John Boy Saint]

The reason we are where we are is because there is no leadership on or off the pitch.

 

My thoughts on Cortese are well known and he was out of control and needed to be got shot off, but not replacing him was lunacy. For the last 4 years we've had absent owners, which even under the Chinese fella doesn't show any sign of changing. A part time "chairman" who flies in and out every now and again, speaks a lot of waffle and then clears off for a few months. Then there is Les Reed, originally appointed in 2010 to be head of football development and support but now appears to be the most senior full time employee at the club which is idiotic.

 

Every club has someone who ultimately carries the can to the owners for the decisions made Levy at Spurs, Woodward at Man united. it was pretty telling that when asked outright by Blackmore who is making the decisions at the club, Kruger dodged it and said it was a group, then asked who is this group accountable to stop them continually making bad decisions he dodged it again. Seems to me there is a small group of people with free reign to be making the calls and none of them are being held accountable if they get them wrong. We got away with it when Koeman was here because he was an experienced, strong manager but now we've had two less imposing characters as managers the lack of leadership throughout the club is coming home to roost.

This pretty much it in a nutshell, you don't have the Strachan to Sturrock situation, where certain players were alledged to ignore everything he did and the Chairman went with the players. When everyone's favourite Adkins was binned off, and replaced with Pochettino there was a danger players would dig their heels in, but with Cortese all the players knew what side he would come down on, Pochettino got their attention and settled quickly. Without Cortese at the club Koeman came in with a playing CV that no one in the team could question. Then we get Claude who had a good playing career and not too shabby managerial career but in reality "who are you?" Almost back to Strachan to Sturrock especially if the playing style is not one you are comfortable with as a player. He goes and is replaced with another, in reality "who are you?" Manager.

Puel and Pellegrino don't appear to have presence like Pochettino Koeman and even Adkins had, and without a Headmaster like Cortese over seeing, and everyone knowing he has a selection of canes on the side of his office and a pencil on the edge of the desk ready to fall on the floor.

Pick that up boy.........................

[Smirking_Saint]

It's here for anyone interested. It's good, sensible, very long and quotes Camus.

 

This really is a fantastic article which sums up where we are IMO

[hypochondriac]

This really is a fantastic article which sums up where we are IMO

I second this. It deserves a wider audience and pretty much sums up what we have been missing. I'm not sure about anyone else but given our troubles this year, would you rather see the likes of Gallagher and Reed on the pitch than some of the overpaid foreigners with no affinity to the club?

[ErwinK1961]

I second this. It deserves a wider audience and pretty much sums up what we have been missing. I'm not sure about anyone else but given our troubles this year, would you rather see the likes of Gallagher and Reed on the pitch than some of the overpaid foreigners with no affinity to the club?

 

We will do, next season.

[hypochondriac]

We will do, next season.

Well yes but I'd rather see it in the prem than when we have been relegated. The author of the piece is right that we are currently the furthest away from achieving markus' dream than at any other point since our return to the top. It's pretty criminal that we haven't used Gallagher this year- he would have definitely been useful.

[SonicBoom]

Absolutely spot on. For all Cortese’s sins (a lot of them), he was an excellent leader.

 

Well everything I heard and read pointed to the fact that Cortese was the opposite of an excellent leader. He ruled by fear and many people at the club were treated with utter contempt - including good guys like MLT and Benali which was disgraceful.

He was certainly ambitious but on a personal basis. Most of what he did was to big himself up and raise his own profile.

He actually seemed like a bitter spiteful man beset with small man syndrome.

If he was this excellent leader then he would have been snapped up by a champions league club. Wasn't he going to Milan?

Or even another PL club? OK what about championship? Nope.

No one took him.

[once_bitterne]

Good post pal.

 

Do you know why Gareth Rogers left?

 

He objected to the takeover once Gao failed the fit and proper test.