Why we are where we are -

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why should they spend their own money and why shouldn't we try and turn a profit each year? That's exactly what we should be doing.

 

And isn’t it exactly what Marcus said the day he walked into the club. I maybe mistaken, as it’s a while ago, but wasn’t a sustainable self funding club his objective long term. Over spend to get us back into the big time, then gradually become self sufficient.

 

 

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[Dalek2003]

The OP gives a very good summary.

 

The decline began slowly and has only really started accelerating recently. It is not difficult to understand how people failed to see the subtle signs or trends developing. It is also understandable that those who did warn about the slow downward trend the club were following were dismissed out of hand. Who really wants to be woken up when the dream is so pleasant to be told that in fact the club is 'sleepwalking to relegation'?

 

Finally, we are not finished yet, we might just escape. 17th?

[CB Fry]

At what point did I suggest spending money for the sake of it or just buying players to appease fans (which the Walcott signing looks like if I’m honest).

 

All I’m saying, unless you have the commercial income of Man Utd, you will not survive or be successful long term in the Permier league, by having an owner who’s first thought is to turn a profit.

 

It’s not all about buying players. In our model you need to have the best player recuirtment around, in order to do this you need to spend money.

 

If it was so easy to run a club without having to spend millions, why is it the large majority of clubs are owned by billionaires.

 

But if you get some sort of excitement out of seeing the P&L’s at the end of each month, despite the clear issues on the field, then fair play.

 

Didn't say it was easy. Wrong.

 

Didn't say I get excitement from P&Ls. Wrong.

 

The thing I want is a sustainable club which is a reasonable aim which we should be able to hope whoever owns us should deliver.

 

What you want is something we might get if we are very fortunate but have no right to demand or expect but fu ck that you want it so are demanding someone else spend their money because that's what you want. Guess what, they don't have to do that. Get over it.

[fanimal]

If you want any back up to this just listen to the scouse love in on BBC1 and the wxxk over VVD. Gut wrenching.

[Saint Benali]

And isn’t it exactly what Marcus said the day he walked into the club. I maybe mistaken, as it’s a while ago, but wasn’t a sustainable self funding club his objective long term. Over spend to get us back into the big time, then gradually become self sufficient.

 

 

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If we are having to sell players for big money every season that isn't very sustainable. As they mentioned on Sky the other day doing that requires a near perfect recruitment every season. Once you stop finding the future vvds or manes that will have an impact on your finances long term. I don't think we have anyone who is worth £30m+ now.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

You wanted to suck Ralph off here. Presumably this was around the time

They agreed to stock your book in the club shops?

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?50102-A-meeting-with-Ralph-Krueger

 

Yes Turkish forgive me for wearing my heart on my sleeve and saying what I felt back then. He seemed a nice guy and yes when you spend £16,000 on a book you are quite keen to "like" the guy who can make or break you! If you had £16,000 riding on something would you be objective or even honest on this forum? I like this Forum, it enables me to let off steam and comforts me that others feel my pain. I am often wrong I accept, but I just speak as I feel on the day, it's a shame you choose to belittle rather than give us the benefit of your opinion. C'est la Vie I guess.

[trousers]

The OP gives a very good summary.

 

The decline began slowly and has only really started accelerating recently. It is not difficult to understand how people failed to see the subtle signs or trends developing. It is also understandable that those who did warn about the slow downward trend the club were following were dismissed out of hand. Who really wants to be woken up when the dream is so pleasant to be told that in fact the club is 'sleepwalking to relegation'?

 

Finally, we are not finished yet, we might just escape. 17th?

...

[shurlock]

Yes Turkish forgive me for wearing my heart on my sleeve and saying what I felt back then. He seemed a nice guy and yes when you spend £16,000 on a book you are quite keen to "like" the guy who can make or break you! If you had £16,000 riding on something would you be objective or even honest on this forum? I like this Forum, it enables me to let off steam and comforts me that others feel my pain. I am often wrong I accept, but I just speak as I feel on the day, it's a shame you choose to belittle rather than give us the benefit of your opinion. C'est la Vie I guess.

 

 

That’s some ‘arry mercenarism there.

Edited 5 January, 2018 by shurlock

[SKD]

Didn't say it was easy. Wrong.

 

Didn't say I get excitement from P&Ls. Wrong.

 

The thing I want is a sustainable club which is a reasonable aim which we should be able to hope whoever owns us should deliver.

 

What you want is something we might get if we are very fortunate but have no right to demand or expect but fu ck that you want it so are demanding someone else spend their money because that's what you want. Guess what, they don't have to do that. Get over it.

 

I’ve not demanded anything. I’d love for us to be sustainable, however the reality is, it’s unachievable long term, especially if you want to consistently be in the top half of the table (pretty sure I’ve said this a few time, don’t know why it’s so hard for you to grasp).

 

Regardless, breaking even every year would be considered to be sustainable. There’s a massive difference between that and having a first thought, and priority, to make a profit (regardless of on field impact). Let’s see how sustainable we are if/when we go down shall we.

 

As horrible as it sounds, trust me I hate it as much as the next person, if you want to be a successful football club in this day and age, you need strong financial backing (just ask those down the road, who sold out first opportunity).

[Turkish]

Yes Turkish forgive me for wearing my heart on my sleeve and saying what I felt back then. He seemed a nice guy and yes when you spend £16,000 on a book you are quite keen to "like" the guy who can make or break you! If you had £16,000 riding on something would you be objective or even honest on this forum? I like this Forum, it enables me to let off steam and comforts me that others feel my pain. I am often wrong I accept, but I just speak as I feel on the day, it's a shame you choose to belittle rather than give us the benefit of your opinion. C'est la Vie I guess.

 

 

You've *****ed and moaned across different owners, chairman, managers, bad times and good times never having a positive word to say about the club.

 

I'm glad you've admitted that the brief period when you did have a few positive words to say were due to self interest. Seems to me rather than "wearing your heart on your sleeve" you hate most things about the club and alway have unless its for your own personal gain.

[ally_uk]

Rubbish managerial appointments hiring tactically inept boring managers...... Replacing good quality with other teams rejects.... Our signing potentially may come good however we need to have a approach where we sign players with experience than can bolster the ranks and hit the ground running and actually offer some form of return. I actually want us to be relegated. So that we can sell the seafood get a passionate young English manager and field the youth team.....

[Saint Billy]

You've *****ed and moaned across different owners, chairman, managers, bad times and good times never having a positive word to say about the club.

 

I'm glad you've admitted that the brief period when you did have a few positive words to say were due to self interest. Seems to me rather than "wearing your heart on your sleeve" you hate most things about the club and alway have unless its for your own personal gain.

 

Give it up Turkish, this has become f*cking tiresome over the years. We get it alright, you have an issue with FF.

[Roger]

Spot on ff. Cortese has stayed 2 more years the least we would have got is champs league and we could have built a legacy and been attractive to buyers who could have taken us forward.

[benjii]

Spot on ff. Cortese has stayed 2 more years the least we would have got is champs league and we could have built a legacy and been attractive to buyers who could have taken us forward.

 

Yeah, we definitely would have finished top 4.

 

No doubt about it.

 

None at all.

[Roger]

Yeah, we definitely would have finished top 4.

 

No doubt about it.

 

None at all.

 

Not sure if you’re being genuine. We finished 3 points off champs league after selling shaw, Lovren, toby(on loan),clyne, lallana, Morgan, lambert and chambers so if we had carried on recruiting and not selling surely there would have been a great chance.

[CB Fry]

I’ve not demanded anything. I’d love for us to be sustainable, however the reality is, it’s unachievable long term, especially if you want to consistently be in the top half of the table (pretty sure I’ve said this a few time, don’t know why it’s so hard for you to grasp).

 

Regardless, breaking even every year would be considered to be sustainable. There’s a massive difference between that and having a first thought, and priority, to make a profit (regardless of on field impact). Let’s see how sustainable we are if/when we go down shall we.

 

As horrible as it sounds, trust me I hate it as much as the next person, if you want to be a successful football club in this day and age, you need strong financial backing (just ask those down the road, who sold out first opportunity).

 

 

Saying being sustainable is "not achievable in the long term" is a nonsense. Play it the other way round - the only way to be successful in the long term is to be unsustainable. Utterly ridiculous sentiment.

 

Why can't we be sustainable in the Championship? We should be trying to be sustainable in any league we're in.

 

Anything above break-even in football is a bonus and we should just be thankful for good fortune either through good management, some fool willing to throw money away, or both. We've been very lucky to have both, not that you'd think it on here.

 

Hilariously on this thread the opening post is about someone saying the "day the music died" was the before the club spent a fu cking fortune to get promoted twice finish top eight four times, qualify for Europe twice and get to a cup final. *****ing and moaning following the longest period of unsustainable investment and prolonged glory in our entire history but "the day the music died" was BEFORE all of that happened. Moaning, whining pri ck.

 

That's why owners shouldn't be pi ssing money away because whatever they do, dinlow fans want more and more, and even when we have been unsustainable season after season, guess what you can't move for pr icks on here moaning about our ownership. We've been unsustainable for years, so fu cking what, keep spending as long as it's their money not ours.

 

For someone who claims to be not demanding anything you're still saying how "you need strong financial backing" - meaning someone elses money that you want them to spend for your benefit because you want them to.

 

Or are you going provide it? What savings have you got?

[Saint Billy]

Saying being sustainable is "not achievable in the long term" is a nonsense. Play it the other way round - the only way to be successful in the long term is to be unsustainable. Utterly ridiculous sentiment.

 

Why can't we be sustainable in the Championship? We should be trying to be sustainable in any league we're in.

 

Anything above break-even in football is a bonus and we should just be thankful for good fortune either through good management, some fool willing to throw money away, or both. We've been very lucky to have both, not that you'd think it on here.

 

Hilariously on this thread the opening post is about someone saying the "day the music died" was the before the club spent a fu cking fortune to get promoted twice finish top eight four times, qualify for Europe twice and get to a cup final. *****ing and moaning following the longest period of unsustainable investment and prolonged glory in our entire history but "the day the music died" was BEFORE all of that happened. Moaning, whining pri ck.

 

That's why owners shouldn't be pi ssing money away because whatever they do, dinlow fans want more and more, and even when we have been unsustainable season after season, guess what you can't move for pr icks on here moaning about our ownership. We've been unsustainable for years, so fu cking what, keep spending as long as it's their money not ours.

 

For someone who claims to be not demanding anything you're still saying how "you need strong financial backing" - meaning someone elses money that you want them to spend for your benefit because you want them to.

 

Or are you going provide it? What savings have you got?

 

So why buy a football club then?.

[SKD]

Or are you going provide it? What savings have you got?

 

I just spent my last £10 on an XL bedsheet to write “sack the board” on it for tomorrow xx

[James]

Saying being sustainable is "not achievable in the long term" is a nonsense. Play it the other way round - the only way to be successful in the long term is to be unsustainable. Utterly ridiculous sentiment.

 

Why can't we be sustainable in the Championship? We should be trying to be sustainable in any league we're in.

 

Anything above break-even in football is a bonus and we should just be thankful for good fortune either through good management, some fool willing to throw money away, or both. We've been very lucky to have both, not that you'd think it on here.

 

Hilariously on this thread the opening post is about someone saying the "day the music died" was the before the club spent a fu cking fortune to get promoted twice finish top eight four times, qualify for Europe twice and get to a cup final. *****ing and moaning following the longest period of unsustainable investment and prolonged glory in our entire history but "the day the music died" was BEFORE all of that happened. Moaning, whining pri ck.

 

That's why owners shouldn't be pi ssing money away because whatever they do, dinlow fans want more and more, and even when we have been unsustainable season after season, guess what you can't move for pr icks on here moaning about our ownership. We've been unsustainable for years, so fu cking what, keep spending as long as it's their money not ours.

 

For someone who claims to be not demanding anything you're still saying how "you need strong financial backing" - meaning someone elses money that you want them to spend for your benefit because you want them to.

 

Or are you going provide it? What savings have you got?

 

There’s a difference between sustainable and self-sustainable. Name me a club that operates within the profits it makes, with limited external investment, yet finishes in the upper reaches of the Premier League on a long term basis? There aren’t any.

 

City are only “sustainable” because the Sheik puts money in, same with Chelsea and the rest.

 

You really are incredibly patronising towards anyone who dares to take a different view to your own btw.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Saying being sustainable is "not achievable in the long term" is a nonsense. Play it the other way round - the only way to be successful in the long term is to be unsustainable. Utterly ridiculous sentiment.

 

Why can't we be sustainable in the Championship? We should be trying to be sustainable in any league we're in.

 

Anything above break-even in football is a bonus and we should just be thankful for good fortune either through good management, some fool willing to throw money away, or both. We've been very lucky to have both, not that you'd think it on here.

 

Hilariously on this thread the opening post is about someone saying the "day the music died" was the before the club spent a fu cking fortune to get promoted twice finish top eight four times, qualify for Europe twice and get to a cup final. *****ing and moaning following the longest period of unsustainable investment and prolonged glory in our entire history but "the day the music died" was BEFORE all of that happened. Moaning, whining pri ck.

 

That's why owners shouldn't be pi ssing money away because whatever they do, dinlow fans want more and more, and even when we have been unsustainable season after season, guess what you can't move for pr icks on here moaning about our ownership. We've been unsustainable for years, so fu cking what, keep spending as long as it's their money not ours.

 

For someone who claims to be not demanding anything you're still saying how "you need strong financial backing" - meaning someone elses money that you want them to spend for your benefit because you want them to.

 

Or are you going provide it? What savings have you got?

 

For someone who has boasted of not reading or being interested in the OP you seem to be spending a lot of time debating it? You are a fraud. And i’d Be interested to know when you last attended a Saints game live?

[S-Clarke]

Out comes the predictable '**** waving' i'm a better fan than you nonsense.

[SKD]

There’s a difference between sustainable and self-sustainable. Name me a club that operates within the profits it makes, with limited external investment, yet finishes in the upper reaches of the Premier League on a long term basis? There aren’t any.

 

City are only “sustainable” because the Sheik puts money in, same with Chelsea and the rest.

 

You really are incredibly patronising towards anyone who dares to take a different view to your own btw.

 

Especially when his view is contradicting.... he’s openly admitted that we needed to spend money to get promoted twice and then finish in the top 8. Yet he just wants us to be “sustainable”, I’m sure he’s loving this season then.

 

To be honest, I think the only thing he wants is an argument... wan ker

Edited 5 January, 2018 by SKD

[austsaint]

What would damage his reputation more - getting one appointment wrong (and dealing with it in a timely manner), or getting us relegated.? If I was LR I know which one I'd be more concerned about.

 

Would Reed be that worried about his reputation? At 66, and after a protracted period at SFC where he has both lined his pockets and accumulated disproportionate power he has got the superannuation nest egg and the grand kid's inheritance all wrapped up. When he does go, either voluntarily or at a time when he actually becomes accountable to someone, he's off into the night - he is hardly on a career trajectory. And as for the other buffoon, Kreuger, he will retreat to North America somewhere overseeing some hockey franchise.

[austsaint]

For someone who has boasted of not reading or being interested in the OP you seem to be spending a lot of time debating it? You are a fraud. And i’d Be interested to know when you last attended a Saints game live?

 

He's not a fraud - he's a contrarian, with a few good words in his vocabulary. It's sport to him - he is likely a serial contributor to "letters to the editor".

[Micky]

If we are having to sell players for big money every season that isn't very sustainable. As they mentioned on Sky the other day doing that requires a near perfect recruitment every season. Once you stop finding the future vvds or manes that will have an impact on your finances long term. I don't think we have anyone who is worth £30m+ now.

But we are only having to sell them to clubs much bigger than us because those clubs can double their wages. When we are forced to sell players to lesser clubs you can start to worry about things.

 

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[Winnersaint]

We didn’t lose the club in 2006, or when Rupert came in, or any other random date in history. We never had the club in the first place, we’ve never been listened to, look how long it took for Branfoots removal. Even if you take it to the extreme and have fan ownership , it still won’t be “ours”, it’ll be a select few of the fan base.

 

We are where we are , because that’s where we sit in the grand scheme of things. Around the middle of the top flight. Make good decisions, have a good season and we could be 5th, 6th, 7th make bad ones and we could be relegated. We’ve overachieved the past 4 years ( except in the cups, where forum gods Poch & Koeman certainly under achieved), it’s unreasonable to expect that to continue. It’s just not possible, people make mistakes in life, things go against you, others overachieve pushing you further down. The important thing is how you react to bad decisions, how you turn things round, thankfully we’re not fan owned because the reaction to adversity most on here are showing is ****ing pathetic.

 

I don’t buy into the narrative that we’re complacent or incompetent. Well meaning decisions, not complacent ones have turned out to be wrong. Complacent implies, lazy uncaring. I bet Reed and co worked as hard with the Boufal signing as with Mane. I doubt for one minute they thought, it’s worked before, we’ll just sign him regardless. There was time and effort spent on due diligence, I don’t believe they just assumed that just because they’d identified him ,he’d be a hit. Reeds been in the game too long not to realise that it’s not an exact science. On paper Boufal looks every bit a good a signing as Mane. On paper and after the start he made, nobody would guess that Gabbi would struggle so much this season, on paper Lemina looks a good buy, as does Wes. Who would ever have believed The Mummy would be so abject, had we sold him to Liverpool at the same time as Mane, they’d have been another meltdown. On paper (and this won’t be popular) the young manager had just a good a pedigree as Poch. Clearly the games not played on paper, and I’d imagine long term Reed will end up paying the price for these (in hindsight) poor decisions. I know I’m waffling, but the point I’m trying to make is that nothing fundamentally changed the past 12 months. We sell our best players and we try and replace them with decent prospects, we don’t go down the Fat Sam or Davey Moyes managerial route, we do what we did previously. It worked before, it isn’t working at the moment, that’s life. It’s not some form of complacency, not Reeds ego going into overdrive, not some sort of money making scam by the Chinese, it’s not anything sinister. It’s just football and in football poor decisions, however well meaning or however good on paper, cost you. They cost the Chelsea’s & Liverpool’s of this world champions league places, they cost teams of our size relegation.

 

I’m sure Reed & co are as worried about relegation as every single one of us. I’d imagine having all the facts and figures in front of him, wages & revenue wise, will keep him awake at night. If I ran the club, I’d have the manager out by now and Martin O’Neil & Roy Keane in situ. But I respect what Reeds done at this club, respect that he has a different opinion than mine ( and his counts). Any decision he makes will be made in the genuine belief it’s what is best for the club, let’s just hope it turns out to be the correct one. But to try and pin point a place in time or highlight a particular decision or policy shift where it all started to go wrong is ludicrous imo .

 

m

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Football sense from LDH! Can't argue with a lot of what you post on this part of the SWF.

[hackedoff]

Why "we" are where we are ? Probably summed up in one word NAIVETY.

[Micky]

There’s a difference between sustainable and self-sustainable. Name me a club that operates within the profits it makes, with limited external investment, yet finishes in the upper reaches of the Premier League on a long term basis? There aren’t any.

 

City are only “sustainable” because the Sheik puts money in, same with Chelsea and the rest.

 

You really are incredibly patronising towards anyone who dares to take a different view to your own btw.

Oh James, oh James. I think all you've done is confirm exactly what CB is saying there. Sustainability because the owner is willing to cover a loss / foot the bill / pick up the tab, is only for the very rich sugar daddies. As you quite rightly point out, but essentially they are covering loss.

 

Not many clubs have owners who are able to fund such losses, even if they wanted to. Most clubs of or status have to work within their means and cut their cloth accordingly.

 

You may not like CB Fry's tone, but he is spot on with his assessment. Too many fans think it's just a case of throwing money at it, especially somebody else's.

 

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[Nordic Saint]

Oh James, oh James. I think all you've done is confirm exactly what CB is saying there. Sustainability because the owner is willing to cover a loss / foot the bill / pick up the tab, is only for the very rich sugar daddies. As you quite rightly point out, but essentially they are covering loss.

 

Not many clubs have owners who are able to fund such losses, even if they wanted to. Most clubs of or status have to work within their means and cut their cloth accordingly.

 

You may not like CB Fry's tone, but he is spot on with his assessment. Too many fans think it's just a case of throwing money at it, especially somebody else's.

 

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I don't think Kat has covered a loss. She charged the club interest and got better interest rates on her loans to the club than she'd have got from a bank. Any outstanding loan had to be repaid to her in full, with interest, before she pocketed the 210 million from Gao so she has made a cool quarter of a billion pounds out of the club. Of course, we'll always be grateful to her father for his initial 12 million purchase of the club but Kat is not her father and she has probably made more money out of this football club than any other owner in the history of football.

[SKD]

Oh James, oh James. I think all you've done is confirm exactly what CB is saying there. Sustainability because the owner is willing to cover a loss / foot the bill / pick up the tab, is only for the very rich sugar daddies. As you quite rightly point out, but essentially they are covering loss.

 

Not many clubs have owners who are able to fund such losses, even if they wanted to. Most clubs of or status have to work within their means and cut their cloth accordingly.

 

You may not like CB Fry's tone, but he is spot on with his assessment. Too many fans think it's just a case of throwing money at it, especially somebody else's.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

Having to sign the next Mane, produce the next Lallana, appoint the next Poch and headhunt the next Mitchell, in order to sell for a profit to keep the club going (and line the owners pockets) isn’t sustainable, however you dress it.

 

If you want a “sustainable club”, you’ll be watching championship football in the near future. We have nothing coming through the academy and I can’t see many from our squad being worth much. What happens then?

 

It’s not about throwing money around like it’s nothing, it’s spending money if and where required (I.e this window and probably next summer - on top of the VvD money - to strengthen the squad, coaching staff and other staff members), sensibly and carefully.

 

Each to their own, if you’re happy for the club to be in free fall but that doesn’t matter as we’re making a tidy profit for some wealthy businessperson, then so be it.

 

On a side note, I’ve just seen Huddersfield are charging some of their fans £250 for a ST next year.....

Edited 5 January, 2018 by SKD

[James]

Having to sign the next Mane, produce the next Lallana, appoint the next Poch and headhunt the next Mitchell, in order to sell for a profit to keep the club going (and line the owners pockets) isn’t sustainable, however you dress it.

 

If you want a “sustainable club”, you’ll be watching championship football in the near future. We have nothing coming through the academy and I can’t see many from our squad being worth much. What happens then?

 

It’s not about throwing money around like it’s nothing, it’s spending money if and where required (I.e this window and probably next summer - on top of the VvD money - to strengthen the squad, coaching staff and other staff members), sensibly and carefully.

 

Each to their own, if you’re happy for the club to be in free fall but that doesn’t matter as we’re making a tidy profit for some wealthy businessperson, then so be it.

 

On a side note, I’ve just seen Huddersfield are charging some of their fans £250 for a ST next year.....

 

Spot on.

[CB Fry]

For someone who has boasted of not reading or being interested in the OP you seem to be spending a lot of time debating it? You are a fraud. And i’d Be interested to know when you last attended a Saints game live?

 

I still haven't read your opening post but I saw the quotes about your music died routine. I've been debating with others not you.

 

To answer your question. Arsenal when I was back in the city for my Christmas visit to my family, I went with my brother in law and my two brothers who have all been season ticket holders for twenty odd years, and on the way into the ground took a moment to look at the tile we bought for our Dad who never got to see the stadium but was a fan for his entire life.

 

Before that, Brighton away. I don't live in the city, I go when I can and when I want. Never claimed to do anything different.

 

That okay for you?

 

Sorry I'll never be such a brilliant fan as you are but the club is mine and my family's heart and if you want to call me a fraud then fine but as far as I'm concerned you can fu ck off and kiss my born-and-bred Shirley arse.

 

 

I'd be very careful accusing people of being a fraud when you are on this forum pushing a very, very self-centred agenda. Tread carefully.

[CB Fry]

Having to sign the next Mane, produce the next Lallana, appoint the next Poch and headhunt the next Mitchell, in order to sell for a profit to keep the club going (and line the owners pockets) isn’t sustainable, however you dress it.

 

If you want a “sustainable club”, you’ll be watching championship football in the near future. We have nothing coming through the academy and I can’t see many from our squad being worth much. What happens then?

 

It’s not about throwing money around like it’s nothing, it’s spending money if and where required (I.e this window and probably next summer - on top of the VvD money - to strengthen the squad, coaching staff and other staff members), sensibly and carefully.

 

Each to their own, if you’re happy for the club to be in free fall but that doesn’t matter as we’re making a tidy profit for some wealthy businessperson, then so be it.

 

On a side note, I’ve just seen Huddersfield are charging some of their fans £250 for a ST next year.....

 

You seem to be desperately trying to have your cake and eat it.

 

Spend money sensibly and carefully but not so sensibly and carefully that we break even because that would be terrible.

[CB Fry]

Especially when his view is contradicting.... he’s openly admitted that we needed to spend money to get promoted twice and then finish in the top 8. Yet he just wants us to be “sustainable”, I’m sure he’s loving this season then.

 

To be honest, I think the only thing he wants is an argument... wan ker

Openly admitted? Jesus wept.

 

I said you need to be fortunate to have an owner willing to pi ss money away and we were fortunate. Most of the dins on here won't ever thank her for it so I can't blame her for selling up and let some other mug have a go.

 

You want someone else with someone else's money to keep doing it forever because that's what you want but sorry life isn't like that. Interesting I see you are angling for Huddersfield ticket prices too so someone else's money subsidises that too. It's nice in la-la land, ain't it.

 

There's plenty of TV money sloshing about, we generate money from ticket sales, player trading and commercial activity and off we go. That's how we should run.

 

Carefully and sensibly like what you said.

Edited 5 January, 2018 by CB Fry

[Jonnyboy]

I still haven't read your opening post but I saw the quotes about your music died routine. I've been debating with others not you.

 

To answer your question. Arsenal when I was back in the city for my Christmas visit to my family, I went with my brother in law and my two brothers who have all been season ticket holders for twenty odd years, and on the way into the ground took a moment to look at the tile we bought for our Dad who never got to see the stadium but was a fan for his entire life.

 

Before that, Brighton away. I don't live in the city, I go when I can and when I want. Never claimed to do anything different.

 

That okay for you?

 

Sorry I'll never be such a brilliant fan as you are but the club is mine and my family's heart and if you want to call me a fraud then fine but as far as I'm concerned you can fu ck off and kiss my born-and-bred Shirley arse.

 

 

I'd be very careful accusing people of being a fraud when you are on this forum pushing a very, very self-centred agenda. Tread carefully.

 

But you are cool with relegation this season?

[whelk]

We didn’t lose the club in 2006, or when Rupert came in, or any other random date in history. We never had the club in the first place, we’ve never been listened to, look how long it took for Branfoots removal. Even if you take it to the extreme and have fan ownership , it still won’t be “ours”, it’ll be a select few of the fan base.

 

We are where we are , because that’s where we sit in the grand scheme of things. Around the middle of the top flight. Make good decisions, have a good season and we could be 5th, 6th, 7th make bad ones and we could be relegated. We’ve overachieved the past 4 years ( except in the cups, where forum gods Poch & Koeman certainly under achieved), it’s unreasonable to expect that to continue. It’s just not possible, people make mistakes in life, things go against you, others overachieve pushing you further down. The important thing is how you react to bad decisions, how you turn things round, thankfully we’re not fan owned because the reaction to adversity most on here are showing is ****ing pathetic.

 

I don’t buy into the narrative that we’re complacent or incompetent. Well meaning decisions, not complacent ones have turned out to be wrong. Complacent implies, lazy uncaring. I bet Reed and co worked as hard with the Boufal signing as with Mane. I doubt for one minute they thought, it’s worked before, we’ll just sign him regardless. There was time and effort spent on due diligence, I don’t believe they just assumed that just because they’d identified him ,he’d be a hit. Reeds been in the game too long not to realise that it’s not an exact science. On paper Boufal looks every bit a good a signing as Mane. On paper and after the start he made, nobody would guess that Gabbi would struggle so much this season, on paper Lemina looks a good buy, as does Wes. Who would ever have believed The Mummy would be so abject, had we sold him to Liverpool at the same time as Mane, they’d have been another meltdown. On paper (and this won’t be popular) the young manager had just a good a pedigree as Poch. Clearly the games not played on paper, and I’d imagine long term Reed will end up paying the price for these (in hindsight) poor decisions. I know I’m waffling, but the point I’m trying to make is that nothing fundamentally changed the past 12 months. We sell our best players and we try and replace them with decent prospects, we don’t go down the Fat Sam or Davey Moyes managerial route, we do what we did previously. It worked before, it isn’t working at the moment, that’s life. It’s not some form of complacency, not Reeds ego going into overdrive, not some sort of money making scam by the Chinese, it’s not anything sinister. It’s just football and in football poor decisions, however well meaning or however good on paper, cost you. They cost the Chelsea’s & Liverpool’s of this world champions league places, they cost teams of our size relegation.

 

I’m sure Reed & co are as worried about relegation as every single one of us. I’d imagine having all the facts and figures in front of him, wages & revenue wise, will keep him awake at night. If I ran the club, I’d have the manager out by now and Martin O’Neil & Roy Keane in situ. But I respect what Reeds done at this club, respect that he has a different opinion than mine ( and his counts). Any decision he makes will be made in the genuine belief it’s what is best for the club, let’s just hope it turns out to be the correct one. But to try and pin point a place in time or highlight a particular decision or policy shift where it all started to go wrong is ludicrous imo .

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Don’t normally read the long posts but excellent summary. Some people seem to think football is easy business and that people chose not to apply the proven successful formula which is bunkum ...... or pony,

[CB Fry]

But you are cool with relegation this season?

No worries, already said so. If it happens it happens. It's happened to bigger clubs than us.

 

I'd like to get rid of MP and have a good old fashioned great escape. I can remember them from the time before it become some kind of national disgrace that we won't finish 7th. It's weird the club historian can't.

 

If does happen there are loads of aways near me in the east Midlands so I can keep Fitzhugh happy on the old super-fan measuring stick. I'll make sure I let him know.

 

I support the club just the same whatever division they're in.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing us in lots and lots of FA Cup ties this season and I hope we win the cup. I'm sure you agree.

[Jonnyboy]

Don’t normally read the long posts but excellent summary. Some people seem to think football is easy business and that people chose not to apply the proven successful formula which is bunkum ...... or pony,

 

There is a successful formula, it's called having ridiculous amounts of money.

[Jonnyboy]

No worries, already said so. If it happens it happens. It's happened to bigger clubs than us.

 

I'd like to get rid of MP and have a good old fashioned great escape. I can remember them from the time before it become some kind of national disgrace that we won't finish 7th. It's weird the club historian can't.

 

If does happen there are loads of aways near me in the east Midlands so I can keep Fitzhugh happy on the old super-fan measuring stick. I'll make sure I let him know.

 

I support the club just the same whatever division they're in.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing us in lots and lots of FA Cup ties this season and I hope we win the cup. I'm sure you agree.

 

I do agree, would happily take a cup win and relegation. Unfortunately us winning the Cup would probably get better odds than when Leicester win the league.

It's the pathetic displays at every level whilst seeing Liverpool swaggering around with all our best players that really galls the most.

[whelk]

No worries, already said so. If it happens it happens. It's happened to bigger clubs than us.

 

I'd like to get rid of MP and have a good old fashioned great escape. I can remember them from the time before it become some kind of national disgrace that we won't finish 7th. It's weird the club historian can't.

 

If does happen there are loads of aways near me in the east Midlands so I can keep Fitzhugh happy on the old super-fan measuring stick. I'll make sure I let him know.

 

I support the club just the same whatever division they're in.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing us in lots and lots of FA Cup ties this season and I hope we win the cup. I'm sure you agree.

 

I know oft said but would be nice to shed some of our fcking fans who moan about everything the club does.

[Mallagroth]

But you are cool with relegation this season?

 

Don't know about him but I certainly am. I'm actually well up for competitive football with passionate fans home and away. I miss the atmosphere of the lower divisions and the excitement from never really knowing what result is coming as it is so close and competitive. Completely selfish and don't get me wrong I love that Saints have had some awesome years in the top league, if it continues then great but I won't shed a tear for not being part of the 'Premier League', it is all a farce anyway.

[Dark Munster]

We are where we are because of 2 bad appointments. Simple as that.

 

Pellegrino and Reed?

[Heisenberg]

Our biggest problems......

 

 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I still haven't read your opening post but I saw the quotes about your music died routine. I've been debating with others not you.

 

To answer your question. Arsenal when I was back in the city for my Christmas visit to my family, I went with my brother in law and my two brothers who have all been season ticket holders for twenty odd years, and on the way into the ground took a moment to look at the tile we bought for our Dad who never got to see the stadium but was a fan for his entire life.

 

Before that, Brighton away. I don't live in the city, I go when I can and when I want. Never claimed to do anything different.

 

That okay for you?

 

Sorry I'll never be such a brilliant fan as you are but the club is mine and my family's heart and if you want to call me a fraud then fine but as far as I'm concerned you can fu ck off and kiss my born-and-bred Shirley arse.

 

 

I'd be very careful accusing people of being a fraud when you are on this forum pushing a very, very self-centred agenda. Tread carefully.

 

Well at least I got an honest straight forward answer from you for once without your usual insults. It’s the insults you hurl around that undermine you and why you resort to them when you obviously have something worthwhile to say is beyond me. Calling my post drivel without reading it is just antagonistic and confrontational and I bit back. I would love to have a drink with you one day as I am sure we probably have more in common than you think and I am pretty sure in real life we would be civil to one another. You know who I am so know where to find me.

[Ewell]

We didn’t lose the club in 2006, or when Rupert came in, or any other random date in history. We never had the club in the first place, we’ve never been listened to, look how long it took for Branfoots removal. Even if you take it to the extreme and have fan ownership , it still won’t be “ours”, it’ll be a select few of the fan base.

 

We are where we are , because that’s where we sit in the grand scheme of things. Around the middle of the top flight. Make good decisions, have a good season and we could be 5th, 6th, 7th make bad ones and we could be relegated. We’ve overachieved the past 4 years ( except in the cups, where forum gods Poch & Koeman certainly under achieved), it’s unreasonable to expect that to continue. It’s just not possible, people make mistakes in life, things go against you, others overachieve pushing you further down. The important thing is how you react to bad decisions, how you turn things round, thankfully we’re not fan owned because the reaction to adversity most on here are showing is ****ing pathetic.

 

I don’t buy into the narrative that we’re complacent or incompetent. Well meaning decisions, not complacent ones have turned out to be wrong. Complacent implies, lazy uncaring. I bet Reed and co worked as hard with the Boufal signing as with Mane. I doubt for one minute they thought, it’s worked before, we’ll just sign him regardless. There was time and effort spent on due diligence, I don’t believe they just assumed that just because they’d identified him ,he’d be a hit. Reeds been in the game too long not to realise that it’s not an exact science. On paper Boufal looks every bit a good a signing as Mane. On paper and after the start he made, nobody would guess that Gabbi would struggle so much this season, on paper Lemina looks a good buy, as does Wes. Who would ever have believed The Mummy would be so abject, had we sold him to Liverpool at the same time as Mane, they’d have been another meltdown. On paper (and this won’t be popular) the young manager had just a good a pedigree as Poch. Clearly the games not played on paper, and I’d imagine long term Reed will end up paying the price for these (in hindsight) poor decisions. I know I’m waffling, but the point I’m trying to make is that nothing fundamentally changed the past 12 months. We sell our best players and we try and replace them with decent prospects, we don’t go down the Fat Sam or Davey Moyes managerial route, we do what we did previously. It worked before, it isn’t working at the moment, that’s life. It’s not some form of complacency, not Reeds ego going into overdrive, not some sort of money making scam by the Chinese, it’s not anything sinister. It’s just football and in football poor decisions, however well meaning or however good on paper, cost you. They cost the Chelsea’s & Liverpool’s of this world champions league places, they cost teams of our size relegation.

 

I’m sure Reed & co are as worried about relegation as every single one of us. I’d imagine having all the facts and figures in front of him, wages & revenue wise, will keep him awake at night. If I ran the club, I’d have the manager out by now and Martin O’Neil & Roy Keane in situ. But I respect what Reeds done at this club, respect that he has a different opinion than mine ( and his counts). Any decision he makes will be made in the genuine belief it’s what is best for the club, let’s just hope it turns out to be the correct one. But to try and pin point a place in time or highlight a particular decision or policy shift where it all started to go wrong is ludicrous imo .

 

 

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A January contender for post of the year, very well said sir.

 

Although FWIW I do think that we need to sack Pellegrino asap otherwise I think survival is highly unlikely.

[benjii]

I don't think Kat has covered a loss. She charged the club interest and got better interest rates on her loans to the club than she'd have got from a bank. Any outstanding loan had to be repaid to her in full, with interest, before she pocketed the 210 million from Gao so she has made a cool quarter of a billion pounds out of the club. Of course, we'll always be grateful to her father for his initial 12 million purchase of the club but Kat is not her father and she has probably made more money out of this football club than any other owner in the history of football.

 

She wrote off £33 million of loans FFS.

Edited 6 January, 2018 by benjii

[benjii]

Having to sign the next Mane, produce the next Lallana, appoint the next Poch and headhunt the next Mitchell, in order to sell for a profit to keep the club going (and line the owners pockets) isn’t sustainable, however you dress it.

 

If you want a “sustainable club”, you’ll be watching championship football in the near future. We have nothing coming through the academy and I can’t see many from our squad being worth much. What happens then?

 

It’s not about throwing money around like it’s nothing, it’s spending money if and where required (I.e this window and probably next summer - on top of the VvD money - to strengthen the squad, coaching staff and other staff members), sensibly and carefully.

 

Each to their own, if you’re happy for the club to be in free fall but that doesn’t matter as we’re making a tidy profit for some wealthy businessperson, then so be it.

 

On a side note, I’ve just seen Huddersfield are charging some of their fans £250 for a ST next year.....

 

Like selling no one in the summer and signing Hoedt and Lemina, you mean?

[macca155]

Well I took the time to read all the posts as this is an intetesting thread.

 

Its sad when a good debate is dragged down by personal insults. It's almost as if the poster doesn't have the confidence in their opinion, so they need to spice it up a little.

 

Like CB Fry I don't fear relegation. Football exists beyond these rarified walls. I don't want it to happen, but it won't be the end of the world.

 

I'm sure those running the club care deeply, and are desperately trying to rectify the situation.

 

I guess few of us feel that MP has a future at Saints. Sacking Puel may look like a mistake, but I hated his football, so I remain comfortable with that decision. If he has learnt his lesson well good luck to him.

 

For me a new manager would add a spark, but it would also need less back seat driving from those above.

 

The fortunes of all clubs ebb and flow with the amount of investment and quality of leadership. Saints are no different to anyone else.

 

We've had a great run, but i have learnt over the years to enjoy it such periods as they don't last for ever.

 

At the moment Saints are cash rich, assett poor, and have leadership which is a bit wobbly.

 

That makes the club very vulnerable. The only good thing is that after Bertrand, we won't have to put up with any more obnoxious sales, as the rest aren't good enough.

 

We all know it just needs a few wins, a player to start sparking. Us fans are a fickle lot and hopeless addicts.

 

Maybe a meaningless win over a weakened Championship side, will be the catalyst to better things.

 

Or maybe a humiliating defeat will be a bridge too far for those in charge.

 

Even such uncertainty is exciting.

 

I love it see you at Fulham.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[stknowle]

Our star has been on the rise for the best part of a decade but, without Abramovich level investment it was virtually impossible for it to rise further and now it's on the wane. No real surprise really, not that disappointing, we were always going to have a downturn at some point and to that extent we are where we are because of the size and wealth of our club. The extent, speed and gradient of the decline has come as a shock though. I was expecting a decline to the extent that we would be a relatively comfortable mid-table Premier League team, hopefully for years to come - the financial cards are stacked against the promoted teams each season so this is not unrealistic. We may still get that, but just as likely right now is relegation,, principally because we have an utter clown in charge of the team. That's where we are, we don't need be there, and we wouldn't be if we we had a competent manager.

[thorpie the sinner]

Well I took the time to read all the posts as this is an intetesting thread.

 

Its sad when a good debate is dragged down by personal insults. It's almost as if the poster doesn't have the confidence in their opinion, so they need to spice it up a little.

 

Like CB Fry I don't fear relegation. Football exists beyond these rarified walls. I don't want it to happen, but it won't be the end of the world.

 

I'm sure those running the club care deeply, and are desperately trying to rectify the situation.

 

I guess few of us feel that MP has a future at Saints. Sacking Puel may look like a mistake, but I hated his football, so I remain comfortable with that decision. If he has learnt his lesson well good luck to him.

 

For me a new manager would add a spark, but it would also need less back seat driving from those above.

 

The fortunes of all clubs ebb and flow with the amount of investment and quality of leadership. Saints are no different to anyone else.

 

We've had a great run, but i have learnt over the years to enjoy it such periods as they don't last for ever.

 

At the moment Saints are cash rich, assett poor, and have leadership which is a bit wobbly.

 

That makes the club very vulnerable. The only good thing is that after Bertrand, we won't have to put up with any more obnoxious sales, as the rest aren't good enough.

 

We all know it just needs a few wins, a player to start sparking. Us fans are a fickle lot and hopeless addicts.

 

Maybe a meaningless win over a weakened Championship side, will be the catalyst to better things.

 

Or maybe a humiliating defeat will be a bridge too far for those in charge.

 

Even such uncertainty is exciting.

 

I love it see you at Fulham.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

Very good post, pretty much sums it up for me! We literally can't control anything apart from our support. If Mr Gao is using us as a means to get his foot in the fast growing Chinese football scene, ie academies, branding, structure, using us as a status asset and model, so be it. If he doesn't care about us a team and won't invest, so be it, we aren't the only ones. If we get relegated and he withdraws his holding, so be it! If we are in league one without a pot to **** in, so be it! We will support Southampton FC because that's what we do. Maybe it will mean more! Either way as I write this, this is what football is to me, having a strong coffee after taking daughter to dance and feeling that match day buzz and anticipation. That will never change.