The Future

[St Marco]

I do find it funny that the people who said things would not get worse if Lowe came back,Burley will get us promoted,We have the potential to get promoted this season, Our strikers will score 20 goals easily,Jan will do better then Pearson, we don't want Warnock or Davies because of their lump it up the field tactics etc etc.. are the ones you highlight as "talking sense"....

[david in sweden]

We have recently had a respected old fan post a nostaligic thread.

 

No harm in that you might think......

 

Trouble is, we are not living in the 60's or 70's or 80's.

 

The glory days are WELL behind us.

 

Our squad is the weakest in many decades. Finacially we are screwed.

 

So......what are the reactionaries going to do? Carry on boring the sh*t out of people or come into the real world?

 

 

 

Well speaking as another " old " fan...when I began as " a Dell regular," Saints were EXACTLY in the same spot as they are now. The winter of '62/63 and we'd started the season with one win and a draw in the first 8 games. !!

..and then came Kirby and Burnside and Stuart Williams (sorry to bore you again with names of " former heroes ") and it took time for us to recover and we'd still only progressed upto 15th spot by early May (finally 11th btw).

 

(I'll not re-tell the glory of those unforgetable FA Cup games either) except to say that fans of " my day" (some have already passed on to the main grandstand in the sky) ..seemed to be a different kind of supporter than SOME of those today. We had some shocking results that season; like losing 3-5 (h) to Cardiff ( but O'Brien scored a hat-trick anyway.) Getting tanned 1-4 at GRIMSBY who only just avoided relegation themselves, though we reversed the score at home. Losing 4-0 at soon-to-be promoted Sunderland and where some upstart CF named BRIAN CLOUGH scored a hat-trick)

 

The pain was lessened somewhat by our 6-0 win (h) v Midd.boro (Kirby hat-trick in ..FOUR mins.) and a 5-0 win (h) v. Derby.. and a last match home win 2-0 over eventual champs.. Stoke City and they had the help of a 50 year old winger named Stanley Matthews.

 

WHY am I rambling on like this ? That season was one of the worst in my memory (even recalling the two relegations we've had since - where at least we had some good football in between). My point is the loyal fan base (then average 15,252 ) were there to cheer the team on every dire game. (Seems to me that the ghosts of those fans are still around today.)

 

We got used to the "fair weather fans " turning up for the big games, and standing there throwing insults at our / their team, and we were there next game ..and they weren't.

They weren't glory days, they were the bread and butter games of that era.. and there wasn't much butter, either.

 

I agree with most of your comments. NO-we're not living in the past, but we recognise the signs of a struggling side, and ABSOLUTELY right, this is the weakest squad I can ever recall, and in all fairness some of these lads shouldn't be asked to play in this league as they are totally lacking any senior experience - but JP is playing the cards he's been dealt and Rupert Lowe is the dealer and there's no money in the pot - but amidst all this, I have a real admiration for these " lads " ( I have two sons who are older than some of our first teamers) 'cos they are going out and getting outplayed, and even occasionally humiliated by " bully boy " teams.

 

I hope we survive, if for no other reason that the 45 mins. of " good " football these lads produce in most games is surely a good sign of a better future, and who knows ..if we are mid-table next January .. then this generations " fair weather fans " may start to turn-up, too.

 

Do I still glory in those days? Absolutely, but I (and many of my generation) are also realists, 'cos we've seen it all before and we believe in better days.

Edited 15 January, 2009 by david in sweden

[saintsdan]

Apart from missing the point of Duncan's thread completely, I think the original post highlights precisely part of the reason we are in the predicament we currently find ourselves.

 

Yes, as a club we have good times and bad times, we win games and lose games, we get promoted and we get relegated. That unfortunately is the nature of the sport. We currently find ourselves in a bad period and many on here are angry (arguably rightly so) at the decisions that have been made and the reason we are in this position, but we are where we are.

 

Duncan's thread, apart from providing a bit of nostalgia for those fortunate enough to remember those good times, is also very relevant to our current predicament. Many of the comments on the thread talk about how much the club and the players were a part of the community and how the fans could relate to them and felt a strong association with the club. More recently many people have lost interest and lost heart partly because, by contrast, they feel totally disassociated from the club now. The club has lost its identity in many peoples eyes and the fans no longer feel a part of it. There are very few people left at the club, staff or players, that the fans feel represent them, who they can idolise and who epitomise this club, its fans and the community it represents; the 'spirit of Southampton'. Surely in these difficult times and with attendances dropping the club should be doing more to improve and harness that relationship, and to make the fans feel a part of the club again. It would get more people through the turnstiles and maybe, just maybe through doing so reduce the financial concerns that currently constrain us.

 

So rather than saying forget the past and focus on the here and now and the future maybe we should be taking lessons from the past in an attempt to improve our future. The previous regime, with help from the Echo started to try last season with their 'Dell Spirit' campaign. The attitude of Nigel Pearson was condusive to that and is part of the reasion the fans warmed to him so much. The people representing the club could benefit from looking at the situation from a similar perspective, rather than marginalising the fans and pushing them further away, because getting more people through the turnstiles is the only way we are going to survive and progress.

[John B]

Well speaking as another " old " fan...when I began as " a Dell regular," Saints were EXACTLY in the same spot as they are now. The winter of '62/63 and we'd started the season with one win and a draw in the first 8 games. !!

..and then came Kirby and Burnside and Stuart Williams (sorry to bore you again with names of " former heroes ") and it took time for us to recover and we'd still only progressed upto 15th spot by early May (finally 11th btw).

 

(I'll not re-tell the glory of those unforgetable FA Cup games either) except to say that fans of " my day" (some have already passed on to the main grandstand in the sky) ..seemed to be a different kind of supporter than SOME of those today. We had some shocking results that season; like losing 3-5 (h) to Cardiff ( but O'Brien scored a hat-trick anyway.) Getting tanned 1-4 at GRIMSBY who only just avoided relegation themselves, though we reversed the score at home. Losing 4-0 at soon-to-be promoted Sunderland and where some upstart CF named BRIAN CLOUGH scored a hat-trick)

 

The pain was lessened somewhat by our 6-0 win (h) v Midd.boro (Kirby hat-trick in ..FOUR mins.) and a 5-0 win (h) v. Derby.. and a last match home win 2-0 over eventual champs.. Stoke City.

 

 

 

That was my first season too

 

Although we did not do very well to start with getting in the three players you mentioned helped.

 

But it was slightly different from today as fans expectations were a lot lower and we did score over 70 goals that season and were virtually unbeaten at home

[david in sweden]

That was my first season too

 

Although we did not do very well to start with getting in the three players you mentioned helped.

 

But it was slightly different from today as fans expectations were a lot lower and we did score over 70 goals that season and were virtually unbeaten at home

 

 

Nice to know someone else who doesn't believe its all lies, (but don't reminisce too much John, its not P.C. on this site.)

 

Yes we did score 70 + goals - and so did a lot of teams then, in fact many teams scored much more than that, too.

.....BUT what can you expect with 1960s tactics and a 5-man forward line ?

 

Good job we did though, our away form was terrible in those days.

Those long coach trips down South used to drain the visitors energy before they got here -(bit like going upto the North East; Newcastle, Sunderland ) and then they got into the Dell ground and heard the crowd -it was worth a goal start even before the kick-off.

Even then we had a leaky defence, but the same brand of attacking football that I see " shades " of with JP attempts to encourage with our brave lads.

Edited 15 January, 2009 by david in sweden

[John B]

Nice to know someone else who doesn't believe its all lies, (but don't reminisce too much John, its not P.C. on this site.)

 

Yes we did score 70 + goals - and so did a lot of teams then, in fact many teams scored much more than that, too.

.....BUT what can you expect with 1960s tactics and a 5-man forward line ?

 

Good job we did though, our away form was terrible in those days.

Those long coach trips down South used to drain the visitors energy before they got here -(bit like going upto the North East; Newcastle, Sunderland ) and then they got into the Dell ground and heard the crowd -it was worth a goal start even before the kick-off.

Even then we had a leaky defence, but the same brand of attacking football that I see " shades " of with JP attempts to encourage with our brave lads.

 

 

The Cardiff game you mention was a night one and Reynolds could hardly see apparently with his contact lenses.

 

I think Ivor Allchurch scored a couple that night

 

Saw Cloughie that season playing for the only time I think it was 0 0

[Snowballs2]

We have recently had a respected old fan post a nostaligic thread.

 

No harm in that you might think......

 

Trouble is, we are not living in the 60's or 70's or 80's.

 

The glory days are WELL behind us.

 

Our squad is the weakest in many decades. Finacially we are screwed.

 

We need to a) avoid administration and b) avoid relegation.

 

For all of the pontification on here the only way of avoiding a) is to run the club prudently and b) for everyone to get behind SFC.

 

The Alpines, Fitzhugh Fellas, the Stanleys have their followers, but it is the Nicks and the Frank's Cousins who talk common sense and whose opions are better palced to take SFC forward.

 

Knee jerk reactionaries have always been 5 minute wonders.

 

What we need is common sense and pragmatism.

 

I have spent hours on here (with others) trying to get the debate back to some middle ground only to be labelled a Lowe Lovvie by the blinkered and by Um Pahars a "fool".

 

What people have to realise is that they are disappearing up their own backsides with all of this reactionary rubbish.

 

The "good old days" are well behind us. We need to live in the real world.

 

There are, thank God, a few posters who can see that.

 

The others need to get their head out of their rectums and deal with what is, not with what was.

 

So......what are the reactionaries going to do? Carry on boring the sh*t out of people or come into the real world?

 

 

 

You forgot to add ...IMO, because neither they or you speak for me.

[Mole]

I've considered SOG's earlier baiting post and what can be said is that he can never in future claim the moral high ground. For that reason there's really no reason to take the bait as he's shot himself in the foot.

 

SOG was compared to Somedunce Beast in an earlier post and that says it all.

[Chap in the Chapel]

So rather than saying forget the past and focus on the here and now and the future maybe we should be taking lessons from the past in an attempt to improve our future. The previous regime, with help from the Echo started to try last season with their 'Dell Spirit' campaign. The attitude of Nigel Pearson was condusive to that and is part of the reasion the fans warmed to him so much. The people representing the club could benefit from looking at the situation from a similar perspective, rather than marginalising the fans and pushing them further away, because getting more people through the turnstiles is the only way we are going to survive and progress.

 

It sounds so simple and obvious, doesn't it? I remember Rupert Lowe's half-yearly report from the relegation season ending with the statement that 'sporting success is an art not a science'. It strikes me that the 'science' part of sporting success in our case is the balancing of the books, while the 'art' is creating the right circumstances for our team to get results - I would include having the maximum number of fans behind them in that. Towards the end of last season I think we were getting the 'art' side right, with a popular manager who knew what was required of him and made sure the players knew what was required of them. I think that we have now swung back too far towards the 'science' approach. Does anyone honestly think that appointing a cheap coach from the Netherlands' backwaters and ploughing loads of teenagers into the firing line Somme-style is creating the circumstances for a thriving team, especially when you add in the fact that this scheme's poor ongoing results are pushing fans away? The posters who SOG cites as worthwhile are certainly focused on stressing the financial necessity of the 'scientific' approach, particularly the excellent Frank's Cousin, and at this time and in these circumstances there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. What Duncan Holley's thread does bring up, however, is how important the 'art' aspect is, particularly to fans. If you reduce the point of a football club's existence to a share price or some black or red numbers at the bottom of a balance sheet you're missing the potential of the role it plays/could play in a community. I think that, ultimately, is what Lowe doesn't quite get. He will always be the 'scientist'. He has had some success with this approach but, upon being given the chance to introduce some 'art', he's always refused the opportunity. He's quite right that 'sporting success is an art not a science', but his refusal to pay this any more than lip service is, I think, one of the reasons why so many fans are apathetic at the moment.

[OldNick]

i think SOG was spot on........

This site is full of opinions only, we can do little whatever we might say or do.

I woulkdnt wish for Alpine to get banned (although sometimes......) but i also wouldn't wish for Sog to be either, i think it is a tad pathetic for fans to run off to the mods just because something has been said on here and names mentioned. If it is obvious sbuse yes but come on this thread was only an opinion from one side of the arguement.

[saintsdan]

It sounds so simple and obvious, doesn't it? I remember Rupert Lowe's half-yearly report from the relegation season ending with the statement that 'sporting success is an art not a science'. It strikes me that the 'science' part of sporting success in our case is the balancing of the books, while the 'art' is creating the right circumstances for our team to get results - I would include having the maximum number of fans behind them in that. Towards the end of last season I think we were getting the 'art' side right, with a popular manager who knew what was required of him and made sure the players knew what was required of them. I think that we have now swung back too far towards the 'science' approach. Does anyone honestly think that appointing a cheap coach from the Netherlands' backwaters and ploughing loads of teenagers into the firing line Somme-style is creating the circumstances for a thriving team, especially when you add in the fact that this scheme's poor ongoing results are pushing fans away? The posters who SOG cites as worthwhile are certainly focused on stressing the financial necessity of the 'scientific' approach, particularly the excellent Frank's Cousin, and at this time and in these circumstances there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. What Duncan Holley's thread does bring up, however, is how important the 'art' aspect is, particularly to fans. If you reduce the point of a football club's existence to a share price or some black or red numbers at the bottom of a balance sheet you're missing the potential of the role it plays/could play in a community. I think that, ultimately, is what Lowe doesn't quite get. He will always be the 'scientist'. He has had some success with this approach but, upon being given the chance to introduce some 'art', he's always refused the opportunity. He's quite right that 'sporting success is an art not a science', but his refusal to pay this any more than lip service is, I think, one of the reasons why so many fans are apathetic at the moment.

 

Absolutely, and I think where Leon Crouch has been quoted as saying that we would be getting 20,000 gates if he were still in charge this is what he was meaning. 20,000 may be slightly ambitious but the atmosphere he, and Nigel Pearson in particular, were creating was one were the fans started to feel more involved again. By doing that and making them feel part of the club it was encouraging those who had lost heart to continue going or to start going again.

[Snowballs2]

i think SOG was spot on........

This site is full of opinions only, we can do little whatever we might say or do.

I woulkdnt wish for Alpine to get banned (although sometimes......) but i also wouldn't wish for Sog to be either, i think it is a tad pathetic for fans to run off to the mods just because something has been said on here and names mentioned. If it is obvious sbuse yes but come on this thread was only an opinion from one side of the arguement.

 

Well lets put it this way...there Must be a consistant approach by the Mods..if one gets an infraction for attacking a poster then so should the other.

I mean I would give one to Frank for saing in 1000 words what we say in ten. I cannot be bothered to read the over verbose postings that he contributes.

Short and sharp not long and lengthy.

 

However to join the debate I find that most of those who are anti Alpine are for some reason old and grumpy. In the case of SOG the name says it all

[OldNick]

Well lets put it this way...there Must be a consistant approach by the Mods..if one gets an infraction for attacking a poster then so should the other.

I mean I would give one to Frank for saing in 1000 words what we say in ten. I cannot be bothered to read the over verbose postings that he contributes.

Short and sharp not long and lengthy.

 

However to join the debate I find that most of those who are anti Alpine are for some reason old and grumpy. In the case of SOG the name says it all

well you must be really anti Alpine then because you really fit the bill as you put it

[alpine_saint]

i think SOG was spot on........

This site is full of opinions only, we can do little whatever we might say or do.

I woulkdnt wish for Alpine to get banned (although sometimes......) but i also wouldn't wish for Sog to be either, i think it is a tad pathetic for fans to run off to the mods just because something has been said on here and names mentioned. If it is obvious sbuse yes but come on this thread was only an opinion from one side of the arguement.

 

No it wasnt, it extended to abuse using terms others have been infracted for.

 

I dont believe that certain mods trawl the site looking for posts to infract me for, therefore, someone reported me for using the same terms as SOG a couple of weeks ago, and I was infracted.

 

Why should I turn the other cheek when others dont ? This thread is a premeditated attempt to wind-up those whose names he went to the obvious care to mention.

 

Your endorsement of this approach unfortunately speaks volumes about you, too..

[St_Tel49]

We have recently had a respected old fan post a nostaligic thread.

 

No harm in that you might think......

 

Trouble is, we are not living in the 60's or 70's or 80's.

 

The glory days are WELL behind us.

 

Our squad is the weakest in many decades. Finacially we are screwed.

 

We need to a) avoid administration and b) avoid relegation.

 

For all of the pontification on here the only way of avoiding a) is to run the club prudently and b) for everyone to get behind SFC.

 

The Alpines, Fitzhugh Fellas, the Stanleys have their followers, but it is the Nicks and the Frank's Cousins who talk common sense and whose opions are better palced to take SFC forward.

 

Knee jerk reactionaries have always been 5 minute wonders.

 

What we need is common sense and pragmatism.

 

I have spent hours on here (with others) trying to get the debate back to some middle ground only to be labelled a Lowe Lovvie by the blinkered and by Um Pahars a "fool".

 

What people have to realise is that they are disappearing up their own backsides with all of this reactionary rubbish.

 

The "good old days" are well behind us. We need to live in the real world.

 

There are, thank God, a few posters who can see that.

 

The others need to get their head out of their rectums and deal with what is, not with what was.

 

So......what are the reactionaries going to do? Carry on boring the sh*t out of people or come into the real world?

SOG - I often agree with your opinions but in this I think you are wrong. a) There is no harm in a bit of nostalgia - especially when things ain't going so good. But b) a country (replace that with Club) that does not learn from its history is destined to repeat all the same mistakes.

[Mole]

I mean I would give one to Frank for saing in 1000 words what we say in ten. I cannot be bothered to read the over verbose postings that he contributes.

Short and sharp not long and lengthy.

 

I agree with this. Personally i can't be arsed to read long posts and never read Franks contributions. Each to their own though.

[Alain Perrin]

Completely agree.

 

The original post on this thread expresses sentiments not very far away from taking down a picture from the boardroom wall of the only manager in the club's history to have ever won anything, holding said trophy...

 

It seems to me that certain individuals and officers of the club resent the nostalgia for better times because it does nothing more complex than utterly show up what a piiss-poor job the said offers of the club are doing now..

 

Sorry that is ********. Whilst I agree that you have to look backwards to inform what you do going forwards, the 'picture in the boardroom' debacle is a complete irrelevance.

 

If the picture scored goals on the pitch or cleared off the line then it would be worth worrying about. Other than that it is a pointless illustration of how irrelevant some of the arguments between those that run the club and those that want to run the club (and their supporters on here) are. You can add it to the colour of the boardroom chairs, carpet or type of biscuits served at for elevensies (who cares if they're made in Portsmouth).

 

The sooner people realise there are bigger things to worry about (y'know, things that make a difference to whether we win or lose) the better.

 

Most fans haven't ever been, and won't ever go, into the boardroom anyway, so they can have naked pictures of Rupert Lowe for all I care.

[Scudamore]

No it wasnt, it extended to abuse using terms others have been infracted for.

 

I dont believe that certain mods trawl the site looking for posts to infract me for, therefore, someone reported me for using the same terms as SOG a couple of weeks ago, and I was infracted.

 

Why should I turn the other cheek when others dont ? This thread is a premeditated attempt to wind-up those whose names he went to the obvious care to mention.

 

Your endorsement of this approach unfortunately speaks volumes about you, too..

 

[slickmick]

 

The Alpines, Fitzhugh Fellas, the Stanleys have their followers, but it is the Nicks and the Frank's Cousins who talk common sense and whose opions are better palced to take SFC forward.

 

I'd agree with about 30% of the material written by the above mentioned posters. Except for Nickh and yourself to which I have yet to find anything remotely close to agreeing to.

[dubai_phil]

Nostalgia and the future all in one go.

 

One problem of course is what is Nostalgia? For some of us it was seeing a few glimpses Best Charlton & Law playing together when we were standing on a beer crate. For others it is the days of Marian & MLT.

 

For the really young generation that many of us take to games (when affordable) that nostalgia will be the passionless display against Man U or being surrounded by angry "old people" swearing at the ref, the board, the manager. (As there isn't much else to see happening on the pitch!!)

 

The point is that the club at the moment is like a drowning man. It needs the kiss of life, it needs to get it's feet on dry land again. Talking of the future to somebody going under for the thrid time is about as pointless as asking them for their favourite name dropping story. It makes us feel better but it sure don't help!

 

BUT, what is critical is that once (IF) those feet get back on dry land then the history, the nostalgia and the spirit of the club IS recalled, IS remembered and is used to become a BASIS of our future.

 

Man City seem to be showing ALL the wrong ways to do this, I believe that Saints are worth saving, I believe they can survive even with lead weights tied to their ankles and that ONE DAY, every single person who has played a role in our demise and divisions is consigned to a corner of the history books from where they can never be exhumed except as a salutary lesson in how NOT to do things, but our history and our culture and our spirit MUST be remembered and MUST be allowed to help to guide us, otherwise, what is the point?

[saint1977]

Nostalgia and the future all in one go.

 

One problem of course is what is Nostalgia? For some of us it was seeing a few glimpses Best Charlton & Law playing together when we were standing on a beer crate. For others it is the days of Marian & MLT.

 

For the really young generation that many of us take to games (when affordable) that nostalgia will be the passionless display against Man U or being surrounded by angry "old people" swearing at the ref, the board, the manager. (As there isn't much else to see happening on the pitch!!)

 

The point is that the club at the moment is like a drowning man. It needs the kiss of life, it needs to get it's feet on dry land again. Talking of the future to somebody going under for the thrid time is about as pointless as asking them for their favourite name dropping story. It makes us feel better but it sure don't help!

 

BUT, what is critical is that once (IF) those feet get back on dry land then the history, the nostalgia and the spirit of the club IS recalled, IS remembered and is used to become a BASIS of our future.

 

Man City seem to be showing ALL the wrong ways to do this, I believe that Saints are worth saving, I believe they can survive even with lead weights tied to their ankles and that ONE DAY, every single person who has played a role in our demise and divisions is consigned to a corner of the history books from where they can never be exhumed except as a salutary lesson in how NOT to do things, but our history and our culture and our spirit MUST be remembered and MUST be allowed to help to guide us, otherwise, what is the point?

 

Great post Phil, really gets to the heart of it for me and brings people TOGETHER. Read this and learn Sour Old Grapes.

[alpine_saint]

 

Whatever. This site has rules.

[OldNick]

I'd agree with about 30% of the material written by the above mentioned posters. Except for Nickh and yourself to which I have yet to find anything remotely close to agreeing to.

Mick i think we did agree once and I immediately went and had 50 lashes for being so stupid

[OldNick]

I'd agree with about 30% of the material written by the above mentioned posters. Except for Nickh and yourself to which I have yet to find anything remotely close to agreeing to.

I think you were another anti KD and we had words about that if i recall correctly.I think even you may concede I may have been a little more right about that or perhaps not

[NickG]

looking back at his posts, I agree with a good 50% of what NickG says.

[OldNick]

looking back at his posts, I agree with a good 50% of what NickG says.

Is that post correct, or am I missing something MrG ?

[slickmick]

I think you were another anti KD and we had words about that if i recall correctly.I think even you may concede I may have been a little more right about that or perhaps not

 

 

Yeh,forgot about that, you can have that one. Glad to be proved wrong, can't believe its the same KD.

Now prove me wrong about DMG and I might forgive you.

 

p.s I'm not going to concede the Burley argument.

[OldNick]

Yeh,forgot about that, you can have that one. Glad to be proved wrong, can't believe its the same KD.

Now prove me wrong about DMG and I might forgive you.

 

p.s I'm not going to concede the Burley argument.

Thats Ok Mick we are all Saints fans and we all want the same thing.

[slickmick]

looking back at his posts, I agree with a good 50% of what NickG says.

 

 

Someone that doesn't agree with 50% of what they write.

So you are a wind up merchant for 50% of the time?

[Mole]

I'd agree with about 30% of the material written by the above mentioned posters. Except for Nickh and yourself to which I have yet to find anything remotely close to agreeing to.

 

Like i'm bothered what a no mark double glazing salesman thinks.

[OldNick]

Someone that doesn't agree with 50% of what they write.

So you are a wind up merchant for 50% of the time?

It's all too high brow for me.I myself agree with 90%+ with what Nick G writes.

[NickG]

trying to be humble, actually they are all right!

[Wes Tender]

We have recently had a respected old fan post a nostaligic thread.

 

No harm in that you might think......

 

Trouble is, we are not living in the 60's or 70's or 80's.

 

The glory days are WELL behind us.

 

Our squad is the weakest in many decades. Finacially we are screwed.

 

We need to a) avoid administration and b) avoid relegation.

 

For all of the pontification on here the only way of avoiding a) is to run the club prudently and b) for everyone to get behind SFC.

 

The Alpines, Fitzhugh Fellas, the Stanleys have their followers, but it is the Nicks and the Frank's Cousins who talk common sense and whose opions are better palced to take SFC forward.

 

Knee jerk reactionaries have always been 5 minute wonders.

 

What we need is common sense and pragmatism.

 

I have spent hours on here (with others) trying to get the debate back to some middle ground only to be labelled a Lowe Lovvie by the blinkered and by Um Pahars a "fool".

 

What people have to realise is that they are disappearing up their own backsides with all of this reactionary rubbish.

 

The "good old days" are well behind us. We need to live in the real world.

 

There are, thank God, a few posters who can see that.

 

The others need to get their head out of their rectums and deal with what is, not with what was.

 

So......what are the reactionaries going to do? Carry on boring the sh*t out of people or come into the real world?

 

I am on the other side of the World, returning late Monday, so cannot be arsed to read all the other responses.

 

I just write to salute your arrogance in labelling those you have mentioned as being sensible and pragmatic and condemning others you have named as being knee-jerk reactionaries up their own arses.

 

What gives you the right to consider yourself the arbiter as to who falls into what category?

 

Nobody with any sense is living off past glories. But those who accept this and would take steps to rid the club of those charlatans who have overseen our decline from the top flight through negligence and incompetance should be applauded, not derided.

 

You just carry on burying your head in the sand. being exactly what you moniker says on the label; a sad old git.

 

The time for middle ground is over. They have had their chance and failed miserably. The time for drastic action is here now, before we slip still further down the divisions. If you are so blinkered that you cannot see that it is the people running the club who need to either leave, or drop this mad experiment with lower league incompetant Dutch management, then you are truly beyond redemption.

 

As the saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

And as I'm sure you realise, I'm, proud to tie my allegiances with those so called reactionaries like Fitzhugh Fella, Alpine, Stanley and Um Pahars. Also, if you cared to look at the poll on whether fans would be prepared to take action to boycott matches to rid the club of Lowe, the figures prove that you are in the company of just over 20% who would take no action. That does not mean that the 80% are right, but show us some real arrogance and label those 80% as reactionies with their heads up their arses. Go on; I know that you can do it.

[slickmick]

Like i'm bothered what a no mark double glazing salesman thinks.

 

 

Jealousy will get you know where. From what I have heard your about as popular with your potential customers as you are on this forum.

[Gordon Mockles]

Jealousy will get you know where. From what I have heard your about as popular with your potential customers as you are on this forum.

 

Handbags ready...gladiators ready...

 

[lenwilkins]

Jealousy will get you know where. From what I have heard your about as popular with your potential customers as you are on this forum.

 

Should be fun if slickmick gets the job of double glazing Stan's Burger King branch in Wolverhampton. :yawinkle:

[OldNick]

As the saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

And as I'm sure you realise, I'm, proud to tie my allegiances with those so called reactionaries like Fitzhugh Fella, Alpine, Stanley and Um Pahars. Also, if you cared to look at the poll on whether fans would be prepared to take action to boycott matches to rid the club of Lowe, the figures prove that you are in the company of just over 20% who would take no action. That does not mean that the 80% are right, but show us some real arrogance and label those 80% as reactionies with their heads up their arses. Go on; I know that you can do it.

Wes the first line I have kept reminds me of when I and a few others warned about the Wilde bunch, there again was no doubt an 80% vote in favour of them.That quote was used time and again but what did it achieve??

LC has the opportunity to step into the breach, our share price has fallen and so he could mop up and then take us to the promised land, he could join with LM who could plough back in some of the fruits of his connection with the club, but no they sit back snipe and watch OUR club walk the tightrope.

I want the whole lot gone as i dont see much use in any of them (the whole board of directors and hangers on)

I can see the sense in the way RL is going to try and reduce costs and in this time in the history of the world it is bl###y correct to cut your cloth accordingly not spend spend spend your way out of the problem.

IF we stay up I believe the worst of the medicine would have been administered and we may then move on up. if we go down administration is the only way this club will go. Bournemouth went down that route and being told what the administrators

charged I cannot see why anyone in their right mind would wish for administration, and RL way of avoiding it seems common sense.I also know a furniture company who are under administration and from a company that could have survived if the debts had been dealt with quickly and prudently to what has happened when the administrators levied their charges has now meant a business that was est100 years ago has now effectivily been put down.

We may still go into administration this way but I believe the banks will see what we are doing and may be more prone to support that than if we only did cosmetic cuts.

I dont have faith in Jan an call on RL to move him on, that at present is my major beef with him.Tonight I may be very down if we dont win and will be more likley to question RL if he keeps Jan, but if jans signings show us an improvement i may eat my words

[sadoldgit]

I am on the other side of the World, returning late Monday, so cannot be arsed to read all the other responses.

 

I just write to salute your arrogance in labelling those you have mentioned as being sensible and pragmatic and condemning others you have named as being knee-jerk reactionaries up their own arses.

 

What gives you the right to consider yourself the arbiter as to who falls into what category?

 

Nobody with any sense is living off past glories. But those who accept this and would take steps to rid the club of those charlatans who have overseen our decline from the top flight through negligence and incompetance should be applauded, not derided.

 

You just carry on burying your head in the sand. being exactly what you moniker says on the label; a sad old git.

 

The time for middle ground is over. They have had their chance and failed miserably. The time for drastic action is here now, before we slip still further down the divisions. If you are so blinkered that you cannot see that it is the people running the club who need to either leave, or drop this mad experiment with lower league incompetant Dutch management, then you are truly beyond redemption.

 

As the saying goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

And as I'm sure you realise, I'm, proud to tie my allegiances with those so called reactionaries like Fitzhugh Fella, Alpine, Stanley and Um Pahars. Also, if you cared to look at the poll on whether fans would be prepared to take action to boycott matches to rid the club of Lowe, the figures prove that you are in the company of just over 20% who would take no action. That does not mean that the 80% are right, but show us some real arrogance and label those 80% as reactionies with their heads up their arses. Go on; I know that you can do it.

 

 

Good for you.

 

Loved the "old days" as much as anyone, but that is what they are, old.

 

Like it or not, we live in the here and now. We no longer have players like Davies, Channon and Williams (sadly).

 

If you live in the past and constantly compare today with the past you are never going to move on are you?

 

My salary in now half what it was nine years ago. I could moan and ***** about it and go and camp outside the offices of the people who made me redunant nine years ago, but who does this affect? Me.

 

Life is random. Football is random. But you have to learn to go with it.

 

Without the genious of MLT we would probably have been in this situation years ago.

 

Enjoy the good and deal with the bad. Otherwise you are going end up bitter and twisted. What is the point of waking up in the morning and getting bent out of shape over one man who is running a football club? Really?

 

Lowe will not be here for ever. Someone else will come along and guess what, we will still lose football matches, we we stil sell our better players and sign the occasional donkey. Managers will come and go. Some good, some not so good.

 

And the same old people will be on here moaning and *****ing about it.

[slickmick]

Should be fun if slickmick gets the job of double glazing Stan's Burger King branch in Wolverhampton. :yawinkle:

 

 

We dont do burger vans.

[sadoldgit]

SOG - I often agree with your opinions but in this I think you are wrong. a) There is no harm in a bit of nostalgia - especially when things ain't going so good. But b) a country (replace that with Club) that does not learn from its history is destined to repeat all the same mistakes.

 

I enjoy nostalgia too, but but not when it is being used as part of a further agenda. You know what I mean, look what we had, look what we have now...all down to one man.

 

I have to admit my rant the other night was fuelled by two bottles of Shiraz anf a heavy dose of frustration.

 

I just find it incredibly sad and unfathomable that people will refuse to go and see a football team just because they do not like the CEO. I can't understand why some posters actually hate people they have never met and actually want to perorm acts of physical violence on them. Just because they make professional decsions that don't work out. What is that all about?

 

So I don't go to many matches...I still feel sick when we lose and elated when we win against the odds. If I didn't care deeply about SFC I would not spend hours on sites like these over the years.

 

But there has to be a limit.

 

I get called arrogant yet those same people come on here daily and tell anyone that disagrees with them that they are wrong, isn't that arrogance also?

 

Try and get a balanced debate going and the vultures are on your straight away called you a "Lowe Luvvie". Isn't that arrogance?

 

Come on and slate the board and you have friends for life. For some people it seems that their whole lives revolve around the hatred they have for one man. Sorry, I just don't get it.

[Fowllyd]

I enjoy nostalgia too, but but not when it is being used as part of a further agenda. You know what I mean, look what we had, look what we have now...all down to one man.

 

I can see your point there, but the thread you picked on to illustrate it was definitely not the right one! FF's 'name-dropping' thread is a delight to read - yes it's nostalgic, but there's little if any slating of Lowe or the current regime on there at all. In fact, the only sour note I can recall was Sundance's odious little contribution (little in every sense of the word, too). No agenda in evidence, just some cracking and often hilarious stories.

 

But then two bottles of Shiraz in an evening is some going!

[Deppo]

It's your birthday.

[ottery st mary]

I enjoy nostalgia too, but but not when it is being used as part of a further agenda. You know what I mean, look what we had, look what we have now...all down to one man.

 

I have to admit my rant the other night was fuelled by two bottles of Shiraz anf a heavy dose of frustration.

 

I just find it incredibly sad and unfathomable that people will refuse to go and see a football team just because they do not like the CEO. I can't understand why some posters actually hate people they have never met and actually want to perorm acts of physical violence on them. Just because they make professional decsions that don't work out. What is that all about?

 

So I don't go to many matches...I still feel sick when we lose and elated when we win against the odds. If I didn't care deeply about SFC I would not spend hours on sites like these over the years.

 

But there has to be a limit.

 

I get called arrogant yet those same people come on here daily and tell anyone that disagrees with them that they are wrong, isn't that arrogance also?

 

Try and get a balanced debate going and the vultures are on your straight away called you a "Lowe Luvvie". Isn't that arrogance?

 

Come on and slate the board and you have friends for life. For some people it seems that their whole lives revolve around the hatred they have for one man. Sorry, I just don't get it.

 

 

I am a Salzey Luvvie or even a Corbbey Luvvie....Like, good old Crouchey, but he is not my type, but would like to see him back with the old crowd managed by a really good leader to control the group...Salz is my tip but there are other good examples.....Long shot would be to call Gavyn Davies to Chair, say for one year or til the end of the season......Sort it out..

 

SOG YOU KNOW FULL WELL, Most can be managed for the best of the club and the business.....But one man will not let anyone manage him and try to glean/harness his best qualities (he does have some...he could also return some respect to his locker) and move forward together in the hope there will be a chance to save us. You know it makes sense but Lowey will never let anything spoil his play with his toy.....Sorry, that is how I feel....NOT HATRED AS you put it, more like realism of a situation that has to be sorted NOW....

I want us to win, no matter what. But I get the impression all your posts are all Lowey and eventually you are worse than us so called anti Lowe brigade..

Most if not all of us want what is best for the long term good of our beloved club......Even a saddo like me could see Lowey very early, taking us down the pan..

 

Tongue in cheek when I call you a Luvvie or a Pixxie.. Your still a fellow Saints supporter and although I think all CPS are up themselves and could never make a correct decision to save their lives....You may be the exception to that as well.

 

No arrogance on my part......Salz, Gavyn Davies or whoever...just thoughts..

They may have been asked already.......WE CAN NOT CARRY ON AS A CLUB WITH THESE DIVISIONS.......They will end up strangling each other and eventually kill The Saints.

 

Cheer up and let us hope the Saints win against Donney to-day.

 

By the way your not a LUVVIE anymore ...Your an old HAM.

[Fowllyd]

It's your birthday.

 

It is indeed. It's also Muhammad Ali's.

[Daren W]

It wouldn't suprise me if SOG was instructed to "refresh" the debate by his mates on "Saintsfans" (the secret forum that Ruperts Rat Pack use to plan their next move). They are a rather strange bunch who try to find stuff out about posters etc. I can expand on this point if SOG challenges me to do so..

Link?