Saints 1 Palace 2 - Post Match

[S-Clarke]

My opinion is that the problems are a lot deeper than the manager, we've had similar problems now over two seasons under two different managers. Neither did themselves any favors and MP in particular is looking totally lost, but there is something deeper that is wrong here and as much as we are all calling for a change I'm not sure how much of a difference a change will make.

 

We're in a worrying predicament to say the least. I'm really not sure where we go from here. If there was ever a chance for a January transfer window to change the course of a season this is it...

[kitch]

My opinion is that the problems are a lot deeper than the manager, we've had similar problems now over two seasons under two different managers. Neither did themselves any favors and MP in particular is looking totally lost, but there is something deeper that is wrong here and as much as we are all calling for a change I'm not sure how much of a difference a change will make.

 

We're in a worrying predicament to say the least. I'm really not sure where we go from here. If there was ever a chance for a January transfer window to change the course of a season this is it...

 

Completely agree. Something's not right at a deeper level than just the manager. That said, I also believe this manager is tactically inept, which is a lethal combo.

 

Two weeks ago, I'd have said we won't get dragged into the bottom three mess. Now? I genuinely think we're in trouble. It's going to be just like the old days, only we've got no MLG!

[Saint Elsewhere]

The manager has the timidity of a mouse and his team desperate to hear the final whistle at the start of the second half drop off and play the same way. Pellegrino is probably a very nice man but his timidity and stupidity and stubbornness will get us relegated.

 

We need a firebrand full of aggression and with the courage to get the team playing aggressively and importantly ditch the non scoring passers whose sole aim is to pass the ball get it back and pass it again. Those players who freeze in the last third who only look to pass the responsibility to someone else. It's not pass the parcel. Davis, JWP, Tadic, Redmond and to some extent Boufal are never going to get us the goals we need and never were. Boufal has ability but needs runners and support.

 

Our approach play is too slow and just neuters any forward runs, usually only Long, Austin or Gabbiadini make the runs and have to stop because the ball doesn't come and they are offside. Passing for the sake of it just allows the defences to get back and form up.

 

Stop playing just one striker and three passers plus two holding midfielders. The three passers have to be ditched. 4-2-3-1 just plays into these players hands and feeds their comfort. Time to go for it. Play one holding player, 4-1-4-1. Romeu holding, Lamina and Hojbjerg box to box, Boufal and Long wide and Gabbiadini up front. Stop the possession based play and get the ball forward quickly, not necessarily back to front but stop playing keep ball it doesn't work.

 

In the meantime get in three or four players, a centre back, aggressive attacking midfielders or strikers with a good scoring record, a quick big strong centre forward. everybody must have pace no slow coaches.

 

Excellent summary of faults and more importantly a very workable and obvious -to all bar Saints Management - solution.

 

 

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[Appy]

Completely agree. Something's not right at a deeper level than just the manager. That said, I also believe this manager is tactically inept, which is a lethal combo.

 

Two weeks ago, I'd have said we won't get dragged into the bottom three mess. Now? I genuinely think we're in trouble. It's going to be just like the old days, only we've got no MLG!

 

We do, but he’s a pedantic bore on a forum.

[S-Clarke]

The manager has the timidity of a mouse and his team desperate to hear the final whistle at the start of the second half drop off and play the same way. Pellegrino is probably a very nice man but his timidity and stupidity and stubbornness will get us relegated.

 

We need a firebrand full of aggression and with the courage to get the team playing aggressively and importantly ditch the non scoring passers whose sole aim is to pass the ball get it back and pass it again. Those players who freeze in the last third who only look to pass the responsibility to someone else. It's not pass the parcel. Davis, JWP, Tadic, Redmond and to some extent Boufal are never going to get us the goals we need and never were. Boufal has ability but needs runners and support.

 

Our approach play is too slow and just neuters any forward runs, usually only Long, Austin or Gabbiadini make the runs and have to stop because the ball doesn't come and they are offside. Passing for the sake of it just allows the defences to get back and form up.

 

Stop playing just one striker and three passers plus two holding midfielders. The three passers have to be ditched. 4-2-3-1 just plays into these players hands and feeds their comfort. Time to go for it. Play one holding player, 4-1-4-1. Romeu holding, Lamina and Hojbjerg box to box, Boufal and Long wide and Gabbiadini up front. Stop the possession based play and get the ball forward quickly, not necessarily back to front but stop playing keep ball it doesn't work.

 

In the meantime get in three or four players, a centre back, aggressive attacking midfielders or strikers with a good scoring record, a quick big strong centre forward. everybody must have pace no slow coaches.

 

Yep, you've called it for me.

 

A lot of what you describe seems to be the clubs philosophy though. We seem to have become obsessed with thinking possession is what it's all about, if we're good at keeping the ball then we will do well - but like you say, it's all well and good keeping it in safe area's, but you still need the risk takers who will ultimately make the difference, not the passers.

 

Mane was a risk taker, so was Pelle to a certain extent. They were replaced by safe players.

[Pilchards]

The manager has the timidity of a mouse and his team desperate to hear the final whistle at the start of the second half drop off and play the same way. Pellegrino is probably a very nice man but his timidity and stupidity and stubbornness will get us relegated.

 

We need a firebrand full of aggression and with the courage to get the team playing aggressively and importantly ditch the non scoring passers whose sole aim is to pass the ball get it back and pass it again. Those players who freeze in the last third who only look to pass the responsibility to someone else. It's not pass the parcel. Davis, JWP, Tadic, Redmond and to some extent Boufal are never going to get us the goals we need and never were. Boufal has ability but needs runners and support.

 

Our approach play is too slow and just neuters any forward runs, usually only Long, Austin or Gabbiadini make the runs and have to stop because the ball doesn't come and they are offside. Passing for the sake of it just allows the defences to get back and form up.

 

Stop playing just one striker and three passers plus two holding midfielders. The three passers have to be ditched. 4-2-3-1 just plays into these players hands and feeds their comfort. Time to go for it. Play one holding player, 4-1-4-1. Romeu holding, Lamina and Hojbjerg box to box, Boufal and Long wide and Gabbiadini up front. Stop the possession based play and get the ball forward quickly, not necessarily back to front but stop playing keep ball it doesn't work.

 

In the meantime get in three or four players, a centre back, aggressive attacking midfielders or strikers with a good scoring record, a quick big strong centre forward. everybody must have pace no slow coaches.

 

 

Spot on Derry.

How many times we had a breaking opportunity before passing it back and then along the back line before the goalie pumps it up field.

What does that achieve?

its negative and predictable for any opposition to defend.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

The cautious approach is sending us headlong into the Championship. Something has to change. Whatever happened to 2 up front attacking football. Rickie Lambert, Billy Sharp. It just ****ing works.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I agree with everything you say until the last paragraph. Anybody who pays their hard earned cash to watch us play/not play is perfectly entitled to express their dissatisfaction at a poor performance in whatever way they see fit. Staying right up to the final whistle and cheering on the team regardless of the sh*t performance of the players not giving 100% is a great comfort to the Board, who will be encouraged to do nothing to fix things. Fans streaming out of the stadium en masse before the end of the match, falling attendance figures and half ST sales, loud booing at the final whistle are far more likely to get the message across that Pellegrino needs to be replaced.

 

It should be a comfort to the real fans though that when we are in the second division, most of those Sky groupies and tourists will have buggered off. The tourists can make a short trip to watch Bournemouth or Brighton playing the glory teams instead.

 

Come on, we’re talking about the minute the second goal went it, people ****ed off. 10 minutes left, 2-1 down and they left. Same as Burnley and Leicester,pitiful. Even if I was watching 2 neutral teams on tv I wouldn’t switch off at 2-1 with 10 left. Let alone my own side. You can not tell me people who leave early, week in week out (and that’s how bad it’s become, I sit on the end of an aisle and see them), are supporters. The excuse used to be traffic, now it’s Shiite football, the real reason is they’re Shiite supporters, fickle. I can’t imagine the agony of walking away from the ground not knowing what’s happening behind me, listening to the noise of the stadium, thinking have we scored, was that close. Bunch of ****ing ****s. I’m not talking about staying and clapping the useless players off the pitch, I’m taking about staying to will your team on the last 10 mins, but also being so addicted to football that you can’t leave any game with the result in the balance. We’ve got too many that don’t get it.

 

 

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[Give it to Ron]

Spot on Derry.

How many times we had a breaking opportunity before passing it back and then along the back line before the goalie pumps it up field.

What does that achieve?

its negative and predictable for any opposition to defend.

 

So last night with and against the wind - p1ssing down with rain we have a free kick and knock it backwards to a defender and put him under pressure...why?

Surely we should put the ball in behind them turn them around rather than panicking our defence and keeper who then hoofs to the crowd?

Why go from the half way line backwards and put us on back foot and being pressed? Any decent manager would have demanded it played up field but then again.....perhaps Tyro u8s would suit this clown better .

[Whitey Grandad]

Yep, you've called it for me.

 

A lot of what you describe seems to be the clubs philosophy though. We seem to have become obsessed with thinking possession is what it's all about, if we're good at keeping the ball then we will do well - but like you say, it's all well and good keeping it in safe area's, but you still need the risk takers who will ultimately make the difference, not the passers.

 

Mane was a risk taker, so was Pelle to a certain extent. They were replaced by safe players.

I don't think it's the players that choose to play safe, I think they are under instructions from this play-safe manager.

[miserableoldgit]

I don't think it's the players that choose to play safe, I think they are under instructions from this play-safe manager.

But something that I have noticed, particularly this season, is that when player receives a pass while going forward, they instinctively turn and take the ball with their back to the opponents goal, meaning that they either have to pass the ball back or have to turn 180 degrees to start an attack....generally the back pass seems the preferred option. Perhaps some experienced coaches on here can say if this is standard practice or something specific to Saints training...

 

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[S-Clarke]

I don't think it's the players that choose to play safe, I think they are under instructions from this play-safe manager.

 

To a certain extent, but I do think we have a team full of crabs in midfield. Sideways, backwards, no risk takers.

[Window Cleaner]

To a certain extent, but I do think we have a team full of crabs in midfield. Sideways, backwards, no risk takers.

 

It's what happens when the front men aren't creating space to be passed into. How many times do you see a midfielder recover the ball, look up, see nothing and just slide it sideways to try to create through a different channel. Watched Everton-Utd the other day, when Pogba started going out and forward on the left it changed the whole game. Trouble with our creative midfielders and front men it that they're all a bit on the puny side. Fine artists they may well be but they've very little physical presence. Perhaps we could try Lemina out wide on one side or the other.

[miserableoldgit]

Come on, we’re talking about the minute the second goal went it, people ****ed off. 10 minutes left, 2-1 down and they left. Same as Burnley and Leicester,pitiful. Even if I was watching 2 neutral teams on tv I wouldn’t switch off at 2-1 with 10 left. Let alone my own side. You can not tell me people who leave early, week in week out (and that’s how bad it’s become, I sit on the end of an aisle and see them), are supporters. The excuse used to be traffic, now it’s Shiite football, the real reason is they’re Shiite supporters, fickle. I can’t imagine the agony of walking away from the ground not knowing what’s happening behind me, listening to the noise of the stadium, thinking have we scored, was that close. Bunch of ****ing ****s. I’m not talking about staying and clapping the useless players off the pitch, I’m taking about staying to will your team on the last 10 mins, but also being so addicted to football that you can’t leave any game with the result in the balance. We’ve got too many that don’t get it.

 

 

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I do get somewhat ****ed off with this recurring argument. I have been supporting Saints for 60 years....I have been a continuous Season Ticket holder for over 40 years. Please don't tell me that I am not a supporter because I might leave some games a few minutes early (I left last night on 86).... I pay a lot of money for my seat and if I am not enjoying what I see, then I reserve the right to vote with my feet, rather than stay behind and take part in the booing that I heard last night....obviously from "real" supporters...

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

I don't think it's the players that choose to play safe, I think they are under instructions from this play-safe manager.

 

We’re obsessed with possession, but it’s possession for possessions sake. Good sides keep possession to move the opposition around, to create gaps, get between the lines, then bang, a riskier ball that gets someone in. Even last season, particularly early on, our possession was always with the purpose of getting a 2 on 1 overload, mostly via the fullbacks getting in behind and crossing. Now we just pass it around where the opposition let us pass it around. Where they don’t, we give it away or go backwards, allowing them to become set defensively. Gabbi in particular, but sometime Tadic make good intelligent runs, but the player in possession prefers a safe ball rather than a 60/40 riskier one with a higher reward. This must come from the manager drumming it into them “don’t give the ball away”.

 

The other thing we don’t do is hit the space or the channels and then get midfield runners in. I’m not talking about long ball, but playing a % ball behind the full backs for Long to drag the centre halves out of position. Midfield should then bust a gut to get into the vacant space. We must be so easy to play against, centre halves just stay in position all day long, they’re never pulled out wide or dragged into the “10 space”. We’re so slow moving the ball that their defensive midfield can get into that space and the full backs get back into their defensive positions. When you add in the fact we’re incapable of scoring from corners, you can see why we don’t score many.

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

Even if I was watching 2 neutral teams on tv I wouldn’t switch off at 2-1 with 10 left. Let alone my own side.

 

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What sort of argument is that? Of course you would watch the entire match on TV as a neutral, as it wouldn't matter to you who won. However, if the match was worse entertainment than watching paint dry, then it would be understandable if one switched over the channel and watched something else. If you were watching your own team on the box, then the inclination would be to watch it all regardless of how ****e it was, because you have spent very little or nothing on the match and don't even have to leave the comfort of your own sofa.

 

But if one had spent a lot of money to get to the match, maybe travelled a long distance, sacrificed the chance to be there by missing some other important engagement, then the choice is totally yours as to whether you leave early or watch the dismal dross until the final whistle. I didn't leave early, as I felt the need to boo loudly when the whistle blew. Call me an improper fan if you like, but there comes a point when one feels that if you really love your club, then action needs to be taken to save it from relegation. That time for action is now.

[Chez]

I don't think it's the players that choose to play safe, I think they are under instructions from this play-safe manager.

 

I disagree. JWP simply plays that way, as does Davis and Tadic. It's amazing that these players did exactly the same under Puel, yet its MP that has coached them to do that. Some things are most certainly the current managers fault, but the idea that JWP plays a ball square rather then through the eye of a needle because MP has told him to is rubbish. It's the type of players they are. What's required are a few complimentary players that go the other way - dare I say it, a Mane type.

[charliemiller]

Its all coached the sideways stance looking sideways and backwards , youth sides you will hear the coaches shouting easy ball constantly .

 

Alex Ferguson had a philosophy that maybe our players would do well to buy into.....A pass should be a progression towards the opponents goal , it should also always be in front of the player it is passed to so that he recieves it on the run ( Ferguson would rip his players a new arse if a ball was played that made the recieving player check or have to turn to collect ) . If a ball was played to a player with his back to goal he coached them to do one of two things , first if the could allow the ball to run across them and turn and then be moving with the ball in the direction of the opponents goal OR the support players were coached to immediately make a parallel run so that the ball could be laid off to them on the run again towards the opponents goal .

 

We do none of this ........we recycle for the sake of it play sideways to stationary players, play behind the recieving player for safetys sack .

 

MP might as well stand on the sidelines screaming easy ball like the youth coaches do in Tyro because that is about where this coaching level is .

 

We have no thrust no tempo no imagination and no fight ........he has to go , and we need a manager that can get the players playing with Tempo and belief and get them the to understand the idea of this great game is to score goals .

 

Also I think the fitness levels are very poor this year when you look at the way we dropped off last night against a team that played only two days ago .

[Chez]

Looking at it on Wikipedia (therefore I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm too tired to check), the win rates for our managers (in all competitions) are as follows....

 

Adkins - 54%

Pochettino - 38.3%

Koeman - 48.35%

Puel - 37.7%

Pellegrino - 17.4%

 

ignoring the FA cup games, Bagpuss had a 16.7% win rate in the top flight with us.

[Chez]

We’re obsessed with possession, but it’s possession for possessions sake. Good sides keep possession to move the opposition around, to create gaps, get between the lines, then bang, a riskier ball that gets someone in. Even last season, particularly early on, our possession was always with the purpose of getting a 2 on 1 overload, mostly via the fullbacks getting in behind and crossing. Now we just pass it around where the opposition let us pass it around. Where they don’t, we give it away or go backwards, allowing them to become set defensively. Gabbi in particular, but sometime Tadic make good intelligent runs, but the player in possession prefers a safe ball rather than a 60/40 riskier one with a higher reward. This must come from the manager drumming it into them “don’t give the ball away”.

 

The other thing we don’t do is hit the space or the channels and then get midfield runners in. I’m not talking about long ball, but playing a % ball behind the full backs for Long to drag the centre halves out of position. Midfield should then bust a gut to get into the vacant space. We must be so easy to play against, centre halves just stay in position all day long, they’re never pulled out wide or dragged into the “10 space”. We’re so slow moving the ball that their defensive midfield can get into that space and the full backs get back into their defensive positions. When you add in the fact we’re incapable of scoring from corners, you can see why we don’t score many.

 

 

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pretty fair assessment.

 

At home that space behind isn't always there, but away form home it is. In terms of `riskier' passing, I am not sure we have the ability in midfield to pick runners out. Last season Hoj was absolutely horrible when trying to pas forwards. He has kept things much more simple and most fans have liked what they have seen. In contrast Romeu has tried to be more progressive and forward looking with passes, but so many have been intercepted. Last night was a good case in point giving the ball away a lot. Boufal did the same.

[benjii]

Come on, we’re talking about the minute the second goal went it, people ****ed off. 10 minutes left, 2-1 down and they left. Same as Burnley and Leicester,pitiful. Even if I was watching 2 neutral teams on tv I wouldn’t switch off at 2-1 with 10 left. Let alone my own side. You can not tell me people who leave early, week in week out (and that’s how bad it’s become, I sit on the end of an aisle and see them), are supporters. The excuse used to be traffic, now it’s Shiite football, the real reason is they’re Shiite supporters, fickle. I can’t imagine the agony of walking away from the ground not knowing what’s happening behind me, listening to the noise of the stadium, thinking have we scored, was that close. Bunch of ****ing ****s. I’m not talking about staying and clapping the useless players off the pitch, I’m taking about staying to will your team on the last 10 mins, but also being so addicted to football that you can’t leave any game with the result in the balance. We’ve got too many that don’t get it.

 

 

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Agreed.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

We have a Front man, not front men. Therein lies part of the problem. The stubborn ***** wont play 2 up front.

[Chez]

We have a Front man, not front men. Therein lies part of the problem. The stubborn ***** wont play 2 up front.

 

We went to two up to last night for the last 20 minutes and five minutes after doing so there was a gaping hole in centre midfield that contributed to their second goal. Perhaps two up front is the answer, I don't know, but it can create other questions.

[Colinjb]

To a certain extent, but I do think we have a team full of crabs in midfield. Sideways, backwards, no risk takers.

 

One moment yesterday. Hojbjerg pushing out from the back.... Only to have no options and to pass back to the defence. He was angrily gesturing to someone, anyone afterwards to make a run for him to play into.

[Whitey Grandad]

I disagree. JWP simply plays that way, as does Davis and Tadic. It's amazing that these players did exactly the same under Puel, yet its MP that has coached them to do that. Some things are most certainly the current managers fault, but the idea that JWP plays a ball square rather then through the eye of a needle because MP has told him to is rubbish. It's the type of players they are. What's required are a few complimentary players that go the other way - dare I say it, a Mane type.

 

Or maybe they play that way because that is the way that they have been coached. Yes, they did the same under Puel and they are doing the same under MP. Is any of this down to Eric Black? He's only been gone less than 2 weeks so it's too early to tell.

[Graffito]

Just watched highlights on the OS. As I thought at the time, there was no foul by Long for which nonetheless the ref gave the free kick which led to their first goal. And yes Benteke was offside for the assist. I hadn't noticed at the time Gabbiadini being pulled back by the shirt in the box late on. Just saying for the record. Doesn't disguise a woeful second half effort by Saints but we do get some woeful decisions at times.

[verlaine1979]

Just watched highlights on the OS. As I thought at the time, there was no foul by Long for which nonetheless the ref gave the free kick which led to their first goal. And yes Benteke was offside for the assist. I hadn't noticed at the time Gabbiadini being pulled back by the shirt in the box late on. Just saying for the record. Doesn't disguise a woeful second half effort by Saints but we do get some woeful decisions at times.

 

I imagine united fans were saying the same thing about the stonewall pen we got away with at Old Trafford. I don't think of us as an unlucky team this season - not a lot of decisions decisively gone against us, and not a lot of shots hitting the frame of the goal compared to past seasons. We're just slow, weak and cowardly on the ball.

[Sour Mash]

I imagine united fans were saying the same thing about the stonewall pen we got away with at Old Trafford. I don't think of us as an unlucky team this season - not a lot of decisions decisively gone against us, and not a lot of shots hitting the frame of the goal compared to past seasons. We're just slow, weak and cowardly on the ball.

Are you being serious? Got to be on some sort of a wind up.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I imagine united fans were saying the same thing about the stonewall pen we got away with at Old Trafford. I don't think of us as an unlucky team this season - not a lot of decisions decisively gone against us, and not a lot of shots hitting the frame of the goal compared to past seasons. We're just slow, weak and cowardly on the ball.

 

Call it stonewall if you like but the ref in the studio on BT sport who they had to review the decisions said it was not a pen

as it was not deliberate...

[mrfahaji]

Just watched highlights on the OS. As I thought at the time, there was no foul by Long for which nonetheless the ref gave the free kick which led to their first goal. And yes Benteke was offside for the assist. I hadn't noticed at the time Gabbiadini being pulled back by the shirt in the box late on. Just saying for the record. Doesn't disguise a woeful second half effort by Saints but we do get some woeful decisions at times.

 

We also seem to be a bit unlucky with long shots. I mean, I know that having a terrible goalkeeper and not putting pressure on the ball are two reasons why we concede them, and maybe the fact we never score any ourselves makes it seem worse than it is, but it feels like every other game someone bangs one in from 25+ yards against us. Doucoure, Janmaat, Hayden, Sigurdsson, Milivojevic, Sterling, Alonso... Ok, maybe not every other game, but still quite a few?

 

Not that that excuses anything we've seen this season. It has been truly appalling.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just watched highlights on the OS. As I thought at the time, there was no foul by Long for which nonetheless the ref gave the free kick which led to their first goal. And yes Benteke was offside for the assist. I hadn't noticed at the time Gabbiadini being pulled back by the shirt in the box late on. Just saying for the record. Doesn't disguise a woeful second half effort by Saints but we do get some woeful decisions at times.

 

Yes, it looks different later on TV. Long might have got a touch on the ball but it certainly looked like a foul at the time and TV is not clear. Benteke looks ofside but there is a trailing defender's foot there and his heel might just be playing Benteke onside. Close enough to be not conclusive anyway. Gabbiadini? Sometimes these players have been grabbing at each other's shirts and it ends up being a 'let it go' decision. I wouldn't call any of these decisions 'woeful' myself.

[Whitey Grandad]

I imagine united fans were saying the same thing about the stonewall pen we got away with at Old Trafford. I don't think of us as an unlucky team this season - not a lot of decisions decisively gone against us, and not a lot of shots hitting the frame of the goal compared to past seasons. We're just slow, weak and cowardly on the ball.

 

You can only call it stonewall if you're playing by some outdated rules. These referees have regular meetings to discuss the interpretation of these laws in an effort to get some sort of consistency and there are guidelines for what is considered handball these days. That doesn't fully explain Mike Dean's decision against Arsenal but in his defence from his viewpoint Chambers does appear to flick that ball away with his hands. In the end it's all a matter of opinion.

[miserableoldgit]

Call it stonewall if you like but the ref in the studio on BT sport who they had to review the decisions said it was not a pen

as it was not deliberate...

Chris Foy

[ringwood]

Well why just not enter the ground at kickoff there would be an empty stadium apart from spurs fans just everyone gather outside .

[trousers]

Just watched highlights on the OS. Benteke was offside for the assist.

 

Benteke looks ofside but there is a trailing defender's foot there and his heel might just be playing Benteke onside. Close enough to be not conclusive anyway

 

Bertrand's heel is indeed level with Benteke's when the ball is struck.... although, from the linesman's viewpoint, he wouldn't have been able to see that - all he would have seen is Benteke looking like he was in an offside position. So, it could be argued that the lino got it right by not going with what he would have actually seen...!

 

Edited 3 January, 2018 by trousers

[Lighthouse]

When it comes down to margins that close, you can't really complain. The offside rule is to prevent people from goal hanging and ridiculous situations, like David Silva's goal against us a few years ago. If you're blaming officials for attackers being an inch, six inches or even a foot offside, you're just looking for an excuse.

Edited 3 January, 2018 by Lighthouse

[Whitey Grandad]

When it comes down to margins that close, you can't really complain. The offside rule is to prevent people from goal hanging and ridiculous situations, like David Silva's goal against us last year. If you're blaming officials for attackers being an inch, six inches or even a foot offside, you're just looking for an excuse.

 

Yeah, we can't really complain about this one. The real complaint is why weren't we rushing out to make sure they were clearly offside?

[trousers]

Yeah, we can't really complain about this one. The real complaint is why weren't we rushing out to make sure they were clearly offside?

 

Looking back at the replay, our defence did rush out but at the last moment Bertrand slowed down just enough to leave Benteke onside. A fraction of a second after the ball is kicked, Benteke is in a much more obvious offside position. Fine margins indeed. That said, given the lino is a human being, I'm still convinced that he should have flagged offside as that's what his brain should have been telling him based on what he would have been able to see (even though it would have been wrong in retrospect!). Given sound travels slower than light, the image below is what he would have had in his mind (albeit from his reverse viewpoint) when the ball was kicked

 

Edited 3 January, 2018 by trousers

[benjii]

Bertrand's heel is indeed level with Benteke's when the ball is struck.... although, from the linesman's viewpoint, he wouldn't have been able to see that - all he would have seen is Benteke looking like he was in an offside position. So, it could be argued that the lino got it right by not going with what he would have actually seen...!

 

 

The issue, as was clear at the time, is that half the defence pushed up and half stayed back, which was why there was such a complete absence of defenders challenging the second ball once Benteke won the header.

 

**** defending. No point whingeing about an off side decision that comes down to, literally, an inch or two.

 

And the tackle by Long looked needless and like a foul in real time.

[Whitey Grandad]

Looking back at the replay, our defence did rush out but at the last moment Bertrand slowed down just enough to leave Benteke onside. A fraction of a second after the ball is kicked, Benteke is in a much more obvious offside position. Fine margins indeed. That said, given the lino is a human being, I'm still convinced that he should have flagged offside as that's what his brain should have been telling him based on what he would have been able to see (even though it would have been wrong in retrospect!). Given sound travels slower than light, the image below is what he would have had in his mind (albeit from his reverse viewpoint) when the ball was kicked

 

You have to remember that Assistant Referees (linos to you and me) see the game differently from everybody else and spend hours practising such situations. They are not normal people. They even move like crabs.

[LGTL]

To a certain extent, but I do think we have a team full of crabs in midfield. Sideways, backwards, no risk takers.

 

We have a team full of powder-puff types. Could you see any of them getting a bit rough or taking a gamble? I mean look at JWP, the absolute epiphany of what you have described. One of the most dull footballers I've ever seen. Not even poor, just excruciatingly dull.

[mrfahaji]

The issue, as was clear at the time, is that half the defence pushed up and half stayed back, which was why there was such a complete absence of defenders challenging the second ball once Benteke won the header.

 

**** defending. No point whingeing about an off side decision that comes down to, literally, an inch or two.

 

And the tackle by Long looked needless and like a foul in real time.

 

I learnt as an 8 year old that the defence goes up together and back together to avoid leaving a striker alone and onside. You'd hope professionals being paid millions a year would have learnt that by now.

[shurlock]

The issue, as was clear at the time, is that half the defence pushed up and half stayed back, which was why there was such a complete absence of defenders challenging the second ball once Benteke won the header.

 

**** defending. No point whingeing about an off side decision that comes down to, literally, an inch or two.

 

And the tackle by Long looked needless and like a foul in real time.

 

That makes sense - I was wondering why three of their players were virtually unmarked at the back post. Who's our player next to Bertrand? Hoj?

[Whitey Grandad]

The issue, as was clear at the time, is that half the defence pushed up and half stayed back, which was why there was such a complete absence of defenders challenging the second ball once Benteke won the header.

 

**** defending. No point whingeing about an off side decision that comes down to, literally, an inch or two.

 

And the tackle by Long looked needless and like a foul in real time.

 

Yeah, sh!t defending. Just look at our shape in that photo. Anything dropping behind our RB and it's open season on goal hunting. Not surprising really considering the constant changes of personnel, enforced and otherwise.

[Dalek2003]

My opinion is that the problems are a lot deeper than the manager, we've had similar problems now over two seasons under two different managers. Neither did themselves any favors and MP in particular is looking totally lost, but there is something deeper that is wrong here and as much as we are all calling for a change I'm not sure how much of a difference a change will make.

 

We're in a worrying predicament to say the least. I'm really not sure where we go from here. If there was ever a chance for a January transfer window to change the course of a season this is it...

 

I can't believe that people have not seen this coming. We were on a high 3years ago, but the whole club, owner, chairman, Les began to believe in their own arrogant hype. Complacency took over which led to penny pinching, dithering and indecisiveness.

 

I could see this unfolding and clearly warned of it. No, this club has been sailing close to the wind for too long and now we are shipping water with torn sails and rigging. Better send the SOS, the Dalek was right !

[KK the 2nd]

On the bright side (pinched from elsewhere) ...

 

League goals in this calendar year:

 

Shane Long - 1

Kane - 0

Ronaldo - 0

Messi - 0

Suárez - 0

Bale - 0

Benzema - 0

Neymar - 0

Griezmann - 0

Heskey - 0

Bendtner - 0

Akinfenwa - 0

Every single Bundesliga team - 0

[Andy Durman]

Clear penalty on Gabbiadini and first Crystal Palace goal is offside.

[badgerx16]

Clear penalty on Gabbiadini and first Crystal Palace goal is offside.

How many real saves did their GK make ? Close line calls and potential refereeing mistakes cannot mitigate our woeful home form and MoPe's sheer lack of managerial nous.

[Andy Durman]

If the defender doesn’t pull Gabbiadini’s shirt then we equalize.

 

I totally agree that both Palace goals could have been avoided with better organization and football intelligence.

 

Note on the second goal how Steve Davis joins the defensive back line. He’s just come on and has left a massive hole.

 

Hoedt not starting was a huge loss and Jack Stephens has been found out.

 

However 2 decisions also haven’t helped.

[Whitey Grandad]

Clear penalty on Gabbiadini and first Crystal Palace goal is offside.

 

See above.