Is It Me? Worlds Gone Crazy

[Gemmel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42387727

 

Why on earth would someone dressing up as a "Black/brown/coloured" person cause offence , if there was no malice? (which there certainly doesn't seem to be).

 

Would anyone get upset if a black guy dressed up as Ronaldo or Messi?

 

We are killing ourselves with what feels like political correctness, but is in fact (In my mind) much worse and much more damaging.

 

David Lammy, Labour MP for Tottenham, was among those to criticise Griezmann.

 

He wrote on Twitter: "There are so, so many different options for an 80s party, or a night out at the darts for that matter, that don't involve blackface.

 

"I can't believe we're out here in 2017 saying don't dress up in blackface."

 

Have I missed something - Is there something wrong with a black face?

Edited 17 December, 2017 by Gemmel

[norwaysaint]

Blackface was used as a means to mock and degrade a race of people and sustain a culture of treating them as sub-human. I'm pretty sure that that isn't part of Messi's history, but I'll look into it. Look into films like Birth of a Nation and others. Black-face has a lot of connotations that are unsurprisingly sensitive. If you think this is ancient history and there aren'r echoes of it in today's society, think again. The Netflix documentary 13th can be a reasonable place to start.

[Gemmel]

Blackface was used as a means to mock and degrade a race of people and sustain a culture of treating them as sub-human. I'm pretty sure that that isn't part of Messi's history, but I'll look into it. Look into films like Birth of a Nation and others. Black-face has a lot of connotations that are unsurprisingly sensitive. If you think this is ancient history and there aren'r echoes of it in today's society, think again. The Netflix documentary 13th can be a reasonable place to start.

 

He's dressed up as a freaking basketball player ffs.

 

Everything that article suggests and what you are implying, is that there is something wrong with being black.

[Gemmel]

Blackface was used as a means to mock and degrade a race of people and sustain a culture of treating them as sub-human. I'm pretty sure that that isn't part of Messi's history, but I'll look into it. Look into films like Birth of a Nation and others. Black-face has a lot of connotations that are unsurprisingly sensitive. If you think this is ancient history and there aren'r echoes of it in today's society, think again. The Netflix documentary 13th can be a reasonable place to start.

 

Is there any connation's regarding black arms and legs?

[whelk]

Minnie Driver was slaughtering Matt Damon for his comments about different types of abuse. I’d didn’t really get what was so bad about what he said but the point is you can’t know what like unless a woman. On surface I don’t get what is so bad about griezmann’s fancy dress outfit either but Twitter needs to pile on someone to scream racist or sexist every 36 hours.

He took it down after first trying to defend it.

[skintsaint]

Would have been annoying walking around the party explaining you didn't go as Jackie Moon but as of one of the Harlem Globetrotters.

[hypochondriac]

I think regardless of the rights and wrongs of dressing up like that- personally I think it's fine- he must have known what the social media response was going to be and so it's entirely his own fault if he is now getting a backlash. You have to pick your battles with this type of manufactured outrage and I really don't think dressing up as a black man is the hill you should be choosing to die on.

[Monk]

Nothing wrong with it, just highlights the idiotic times we live in with gender neutral etc.

 

Where's the offence when the Wayan's brothers 'whitened' up for the film White Chicks?

 

I went as Taribo West to a stag do once....

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Nowt wrong with it, I dressed up as Mr T for New Years 2009 - was a pretty good costume actually - and no-one even mentioned any racial connotations, because there quite obviously wasn't any.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I think regardless of the rights and wrongs of dressing up like that- personally I think it's fine- he must have known what the social media response was going to be and so it's entirely his own fault if he is now getting a backlash. You have to pick your battles with this type of manufactured outrage and I really don't think dressing up as a black man is the hill you should be choosing to die on.

 

I think they call it a 'Blacklash'.

[aintforever]

It is complete nonsense. You get the impression some people actually go out of their way to find things to be offended by just to make some point on social media.

[hypochondriac]

I think they call it a 'Blacklash'.

Probably not. I expect if I cared enough to actually look at this outrage the majority of people moaning would be white.

[Lighthouse]

I saw a bloke in a pink dress and a blonde wig on his stag do the other night. What an insensitive, sexist pr*ck, does he not know all the painstaking work the Suffragettes went through in the name of women's rights.

 

FWIW I do know the history behind blackface mocking African American's as cheerful simpletons, however this is quite obviously not the case here. Ludicrous that people were offended.

[Verbal]

Yet another thread started by some ****wit who needs the sordid history of racism and the point of racist caricature explaining to him.

[Pamplemousse]

Is wearing blackface racist? YES

 

Does that make Griezmann racist? NO

 

He apologised, as he should've done, so that should be the end of the matter.

[View From The Top]

Is wearing blackface racist? YES

 

Does that make Griezmann racist? NO

 

He apologised, as he should've done, so that should be the end of the matter.

 

Sums it up nicely.

[Gemmel]

Yet another thread started by some ****wit who needs the sordid history of racism and the point of racist caricature explaining to him.

 

Yet another response by some F**k wit who causes more damage to race relations and racial tension by their ridiculous reactions to a non event, that actually harms and diminishes, real examples.

 

You do yourself and the causes you purport to support no favours.

[Gemmel]

 

He apologised, as he should've done, so that should be the end of the matter.

 

As he should of done .......WTF

 

If he had dressed as the Pope, or the Queen or Batman .. or whatever.

 

He dressed as a basketball player and you want him to apologise ?

[ashnats]

As he should of done .......WTF

 

If he had dressed as the Pope, or the Queen or Batman .. or whatever.

 

He dressed as a basketball player and you want him to apologise ?

 

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

 

Sigh.

 

The fact that blackface offends a large number of regular humans is reason enough not to do it, regardless of whether you agree with their reasoning or not. If I went out in soton black faced I would expect to get the **** kicked out of me for being a dik.

[Gemmel]

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

 

Sigh.

 

The fact that blackface offends a large number of regular humans is reason enough not to do it, regardless of whether you agree with their reasoning or not. If I went out in soton black faced I would expect to get the **** kicked out of me for being a dik.

 

What if your arms, chest , legs were black as well.

[Saint in Paradise]

Yet another response by some F**k wit who causes more damage to race relations and racial tension by their ridiculous reactions to a non event, that actually harms and diminishes, real examples.

 

You do yourself and the causes you purport to support no favours.

 

Alas Gemmel you are wasting your time as "people" ( notice how polite I am being when I really don't want to be ? )

like Verbal are too dim, stupid and downright thick to understand any comments which explode their moronic views.

They are just if not even more racist, bigoted and troublemakers etc etc as the decent people like us ( the silent majority ) that

they have the nerve to accuse us of being. The only thing they understand is that they have to jump on any bandwagon of

others claiming that they are offended on behalf of someone else. They are unable to look past their Stalin, Mugabe,that NK

despot and Pol Pot etc "heroes".

 

.

[shurlock]

Alas Gemmel you are wasting your time as "people" ( notice how polite I am being when I really don't want to be ? )

like Verbal are too dim, stupid and downright thick to understand any comments which explode their moronic views.

They are just if not even more racist, bigoted and troublemakers etc etc as the decent people like us ( the silent majority ) that

they have the nerve to accuse us of being. The only thing they understand is that they have to jump on any bandwagon of

others claiming that they are offended on behalf of someone else. They are unable to look past their Stalin, Mugabe,that NK

despot and Pol Pot etc "heroes".

 

.

 

#triggered

 

[DuncanRG]

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

 

This is a good article. I'd be interested in hearing the opposing view from someone who's absorbed it.

 

The critcism of 'being offended on someone else's behalf' is flawed. We white folks would all, I hope, step in if someone was using the n-word, even if there were no black people around. That's also being 'offended on someone else's behalf', but it's better known as 'calling out racism'.

 

For what it's worth, though, the Vox article above was written by an African-American.

[hypochondriac]

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/29/7089591/dont-get-whats-wrong-with-blackface-heres-why-its-so-offensive

 

Sigh.

 

The fact that blackface offends a large number of regular humans is reason enough not to do it, regardless of whether you agree with their reasoning or not. If I went out in soton black faced I would expect to get the **** kicked out of me for being a dik.

Hmm I'm not sure about that logic. If you look at some of the universities nowadays then there is an ever growing list of things that offend people. I wouldn't for a moment think about pandering to people like that but he must have known the reaction he was going to get so he must of felt it was worth the hassle and silly screeching from the easily offended.

[aintforever]

If a black guy wants to go in fancy dress as a white person is it OK for him to whiteface?

[hypochondriac]

I still don't understand why a "white person" or any other ethnicity should have their actions dictated by what others did before they were born who they just happened to share a skin colour with. I'm not responsible for anything they did in the same way that Germans born now have zero responsibility for atrocities their ancestors may have been involved with.

 

Identity politics is cancer.

[ericb]

It's crazy isn't it? Imagine a world where i can't do something that's been unacceptable in society for at least 30 years and has long connotations of racism. Honestly it's political correctness gone mad, just the other day i was calling a coloured chap should go as the king of spades because i was referencing the deck of playing cards and he punched me repeatedly in the face.

 

Then there was the time i suggested a gay person i knew should go out dressed as Mr Brains rather delicious faggots, and he got angry at me, political correctness gone made i tell you. Almost like that time i suggested that an arab friend of mine go to a party dressed as a mad bomber, i don't why but he kicked me in the nuts, political correctness has gone way to far i think.

[trousers]

So, just to clarify, is it ok for a white person to do an impression of Diane Abbott (for example) as long as they don't make themselves look like her?

 

#slightlyconfused (which is probably due to my lack of intelligence to be fair)

[Lord Duckhunter]

So, just to clarify, is it ok for a white person to do an impression of Diane Abbott (for example) as long as they don't make themselves look like her?

 

#slightlyconfused (which is probably due to my lack of intelligence to be fair)

 

The Abbott thing was clearly wrong because it gave her the opportunity to play the victim card again, something she’s excellent at.

 

 

 

 

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[Lighthouse]

It's crazy isn't it? Imagine a world where i can't do something that's been unacceptable in society for at least 30 years and has long connotations of racism. Honestly it's political correctness gone mad, just the other day i was calling a coloured chap should go as the king of spades because i was referencing the deck of playing cards and he punched me repeatedly in the face.

 

Then there was the time i suggested a gay person i knew should go out dressed as Mr Brains rather delicious faggots, and he got angry at me, political correctness gone made i tell you. Almost like that time i suggested that an arab friend of mine go to a party dressed as a mad bomber, i don't why but he kicked me in the nuts, political correctness has gone way to far i think.

 

None of those things bare any relevance to this debate. If you honestly can't tell the difference between calling a black person a spade and dressing up as a Harlem Globetrotter then... something.

[Guided Missile]

One of my favourite movies:

 

[Verbal]

Christ, the state of this place.

 

It’s truly depressing how badly this forum has gone downhill since the referendum result. The overt racists on here have been emboldened and the covert ones feel that their incipient xenophobia is now somehow ‘legitimate’.

 

We’ve had low points before – notably through the period when the chaotically idiotic pap was having fits of the paranoid vapours over, for example, how the grieving mother of a murdered British soldier was actually a conniving agent of the state, and how ITN was running a secret CGI department to produce ‘bloody hands’.

 

But nothing like this.

 

We have a once-seemingly innocuous poster lapse into echoing blatant Nazi-era Jew-baiting (with the pathetic mealy-mouthed excuse that it was just ‘a Jew’ who was supposedly controlling world events – a classic Nazi-era trope); a sad Corbynista who flat out denies the sheer plain-as-day volume of anti-Semitic behaviour of some in the Labour party (plus a deeply weird one who gets angry just at the mention of this behaviour, as though acknowledging its existence were somehow worse than actual anti-Semitism); a Britain First acolyte who’s given free rein; another poster who makes false equivalences between the migration crisis and terrorism; a Pony-like poster with a repulsive attitude towards women that would get him into serious trouble in the workplace; a couple (or more) of unhinged posters who attack every argument with factless rage; and any number of Brexiteers who behave exactly like cultists; ad nauseum.

 

The Lounge, not coincidentally, is a dead zone. I can’t remember the last time a woman or a black or Asian poster last contributed in any sustained way. It’s simply a hostile environment for them and I don’t blame anyone for giving this place a wide berth. The lack of diversity – including of opinion – makes the Lounge irredeemable.

 

What is oddest of all is the apparent attitude of the owner of this site. Moderation appears to have been completely withdrawn, and the lunatics are literally in charge of asylum, with the site’s own policies on racism etc having clearly been set aside. If I were he, I’d be ashamed to have this place still open – and the association of this site with Southampton football club drags down everyone’s reputation.

 

Still, specks in the dustbin of history and all that.

[ericb]

None of those things bare any relevance to this debate. If you honestly can't tell the difference between calling a black person a spade and dressing up as a Harlem Globetrotter then... something.

 

I'll make it simpler for you, all of those things have been wrong as long as long as i've been alive, as has blackface.

 

If you didn't know that then you've either had an incredibly sheltered upbringing and never met a black person in your life, or you're just a bit f*cking thick.

[hypochondriac]

Oh god exactly what this conversation needed - a moralising sermon from Verbal.

 

Didn't your partner get all annoyed because you were spending all of your time on here?

[aintforever]

You can’t have a SWF thread without Verbal banging on about Jews.

[Sour Mash]

Someone call Verbal's counsellor, poor lad is having another of his breakdowns.

[Sour Mash]

I'll make it simpler for you, all of those things have been wrong as long as long as i've been alive, as has blackface.

 

If you didn't know that then you've either had an incredibly sheltered upbringing and never met a black person in your life, or you're just a bit f*cking thick.

 

Sums up the modern football fan, offended and upset at everything and anything.

[Weston Super Saint]

a Pony-like poster with a repulsive attitude towards women that would get him into serious trouble in the workplace;

 

He is a skate, right?

 

Almost every post recently has mentioned 'pony', just like the skates on a wind up

[Lighthouse]

I'll make it simpler for you, all of those things have been wrong as long as long as i've been alive, as has blackface.

 

If you didn't know that then you've either had an incredibly sheltered upbringing and never met a black person in your life, or you're just a bit f*cking thick.

 

This isn't blackface though, that refers specifically to wearing black makeup for the sole purpose of mocking black people. There is a huge difference in intent between doing that and dressing up as someone who happens to be black.

[whelk]

The racist Ronnies

[whelk]

Christ, the state of this place.

 

It’s truly depressing how badly this forum has gone downhill since the referendum result. The overt racists on here have been emboldened and the covert ones feel that their incipient xenophobia is now somehow ‘legitimate’.

 

We’ve had low points before – notably through the period when the chaotically idiotic pap was having fits of the paranoid vapours over, for example, how the grieving mother of a murdered British soldier was actually a conniving agent of the state, and how ITN was running a secret CGI department to produce ‘bloody hands’.

 

But nothing like this.

 

We have a once-seemingly innocuous poster lapse into echoing blatant Nazi-era Jew-baiting (with the pathetic mealy-mouthed excuse that it was just ‘a Jew’ who was supposedly controlling world events – a classic Nazi-era trope); a sad Corbynista who flat out denies the sheer plain-as-day volume of anti-Semitic behaviour of some in the Labour party (plus a deeply weird one who gets angry just at the mention of this behaviour, as though acknowledging its existence were somehow worse than actual anti-Semitism); a Britain First acolyte who’s given free rein; another poster who makes false equivalences between the migration crisis and terrorism; a Pony-like poster with a repulsive attitude towards women that would get him into serious trouble in the workplace; a couple (or more) of unhinged posters who attack every argument with factless rage; and any number of Brexiteers who behave exactly like cultists; ad nauseum.

 

The Lounge, not coincidentally, is a dead zone. I can’t remember the last time a woman or a black or Asian poster last contributed in any sustained way. It’s simply a hostile environment for them and I don’t blame anyone for giving this place a wide berth. The lack of diversity – including of opinion – makes the Lounge irredeemable.

 

What is oddest of all is the apparent attitude of the owner of this site. Moderation appears to have been completely withdrawn, and the lunatics are literally in charge of asylum, with the site’s own policies on racism etc having clearly been set aside. If I were he, I’d be ashamed to have this place still open – and the association of this site with Southampton football club drags down everyone’s reputation.

 

Still, specks in the dustbin of history and all that.

 

Think you are getting over excited about a legitimate thread. This place isn’t representative of society but you seem to be getting things awfully out of proportion.

 

And care to names names? I wouldn’t have a clue if a poster were black or Asian. I was staggered to find out CB Fry was a girl mind.

[Lighthouse]

Think you are getting over excited about a legitimate thread. This place isn’t representative of society but you seem to be getting things awfully out of proportion.

 

And care to names names? I wouldn’t have a clue if a poster were black or Asian. I was staggered to find out CB Fry was a girl mind.

 

[shurlock]

Think you are getting over excited about a legitimate thread. This place isn’t representative of society but you seem to be getting things awfully out of proportion.

 

And care to names names? I wouldn’t have a clue if a poster were black or Asian. I was staggered to find out CB Fry was a girl mind.

 

You're Mexican and a cripple, innit. A bad hombre.

[View From The Top]

Alas Gemmel you are wasting your time as "people" ( notice how polite I am being when I really don't want to be ? )

like Verbal are too dim, stupid and downright thick to understand any comments which explode their moronic views.

They are just if not even more racist, bigoted and troublemakers etc etc as the decent people like us ( the silent majority ) that

they have the nerve to accuse us of being. The only thing they understand is that they have to jump on any bandwagon of

others claiming that they are offended on behalf of someone else. They are unable to look past their Stalin, Mugabe,that NK

despot and Pol Pot etc "heroes".

 

.

 

#dogwhistle

[whelk]

You're Mexican and a cripple, innit. A bad hombre.

 

Andale arriba

[DuncanRG]

Hmm I'm not sure about that logic. If you look at some of the universities nowadays then there is an ever growing list of things that offend people. I wouldn't for a moment think about pandering to people like that but he must have known the reaction he was going to get so he must of felt it was worth the hassle and silly screeching from the easily offended.

 

You haven't addressed the logic. Assuming you're white, if you call out someone using the n-word then you're offended on someone else's behalf. Is that untrue?

 

The difference between this case and the n-word is that some (or more) people believe blackface is acceptable. I'd like to hear an explanation of this from someone who understands the historical context, because there are still people (including Griezmann, I suspect) who don't really get it.

Edited 19 December, 2017 by DuncanRG

[hypochondriac]

You haven't addressed the logic. Assuming you're white, if you call out someone using the n-word then you're offended on someone else's behalf. Is that untrue?

 

The difference between this case and the n-word is that some believe blackface is acceptable. I'd like to hear an explanation of this from someone who understands the historical context, because there are still people (including Griezmann, I suspect) who don't really get it.

I think context is key here. I mean I could certainly imagine situations where it would be acceptable for anyone to say the N word. I think dressing up in blackface is a silly thing to do but I do think there's a difference between a minstrel show and someone blacking up in order to dress as their favourite sports star for example. I read an article last year about a little boy who had blacked up his face to go as his favourite Australian football player. I know that's not the same, but it just highlights the fact that this issue isn't entirely black and white- excuse the pun.

[DuncanRG]

These things are clearly worse if they're done with malice, but symbols have meaning regardless. See also Prince Harry dressing as a Nazi.

[Jonnyboy]

Ironic the levels of offense taken by people getting offended by other people getting offended by something offensive to them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Think you are getting over excited about a legitimate thread. This place isn’t representative of society but you seem to be getting things awfully out of proportion.

 

And care to names names? I wouldn’t have a clue if a poster were black or Asian. I was staggered to find out CB Fry was a girl mind.

 

Isn’t verbal being a bit racist & sexist by assuming that we’re all white blokes. I thought that was a total no no in the 21st century. For all he knows I could be a black chick.

 

 

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