What have the Chinese done for us?

[Saint Billy]

With Life of Brian in mind, what have our Chinese owners contributed so far?.

[Sevvy]

Probably the way we are playing a take away.

[LGTL]

**** all.

[davefoggy]

Wasted their money by the looks of it lol

[DuncanRG]

What would you expect them to have done by this point, exactly?

[doddisalegend]

What would you expect them to have done by this point, exactly?

 

My guess would be fire the manager...

[SW5 SAINT]

Anyone thinking they were ever going to come in and splurge loads of cash will be sadly mistaken. This is a cold hard business venture for them, to make money, end of......

[doddisalegend]

Anyone thinking they were ever going to come in and splurge loads of cash will be sadly mistaken. This is a cold hard business venture for them, to make money, end of......

 

won't make much in the championship...

[Toomer]

Wasted their money by the looks of it lol

 

Borrowed money

[Saint Billy]

What would you expect them to have done by this point, exactly?

 

Heard from them for a start.

[Pamplemousse]

Heard from them for a start.

 

Do they speak English?

 

If not, the resident xenophobes would go into meltdown. Look how they reacted to Puel's press conferences.

[Miltonaggro]

They love us, long time...

[Ultimatt]

Supposedly they struggled to round up the cash to buy the club. If that's true then there's no money to invest.

We still have some of Kat's loan to pay off. The clubs quite broke without big player sales. Wasting so much wage money on "depth" when we play once a week and in doing so we've completely blocked our academy so no money coming from there. Just a shambles of management the last 3 years trying to be too ambitious and now it's shooting us in the foot.

[Toussaint]

Do they speak English?

 

If not, the resident xenophobes would go into meltdown. Look how they reacted to Puel's press conferences.

 

Don't turn it into a race issue

[Red]

Borrowed money[/quote

 

[h=2][/h]

Supposedly they struggled to round up the cash to buy the club. If that's true then there's no money to invest.

We still have some of Kat's loan to pay off. The clubs quite broke without big player sales. Wasting so much wage money on "depth" when we play once a week and in doing so we've completely blocked our academy so no money coming from there. Just a shambles of management the last 3 years trying to be too ambitious and now it's shooting us in the foot.

 

 

You do realise that "borrowed money" has to be paid back don't you? Like a mortgage = you (as in our owner) is still liable. It is his personal investment so far.

No they did not struggle to raise the cash - just how it was financed, and as it is now is much better for us. And no, we have no debts outstanding to Kate.

 

If you want to moan, at least do it for the right reasons. For me, manager and Les need replacing ASAP due to poor performances so far and being 3 points from safety.

[Ultimatt]

You do realise that "borrowed money" has to be paid back don't you? Like a mortgage = you (as in our owner) is still liable. It is his personal investment so far.

No they did not struggle to raise the cash - just how it was financed, and as it is now is much better for us. And no, we have no debts outstanding to Kate.

 

If you want to moan, at least do it for the right reasons. For me, manager and Les need replacing ASAP due to poor performances so far and being 3 points from safety.[/indent]

 

I don't understand your reply as it addresses almost nothing in my post. My "moaning" is precisely about Les and the others deciding transfers.

 

Curious for your source re: Kat debt? Was it just refinanced to Mr Gao? Kat had from memory around £45m loan to the club with £6m annual interest.

 

I haven't seen 2016/17 accounts but the 2015/16 account forecast a 24% rise in wages 2016/17. Do you think our squad last year was worth the extra 24% on 2015/16? IMO it was our weakest squad since promotion. "Depth" is practical for big clubs competing in Europe each year. That's not us. The club was too ambitious thinking we'd be best-of-the-rest year on year Europa league participants and it led to some awful squad bloat/poor financial management. Our academy pathway is blocked. We have growing player unrest with a bunch of players thinking they deserve regular starts and not getting them. 6 CB's?

[niceandfriendly]

Do they speak English?

 

If not, the resident xenophobes would go into meltdown. Look how they reacted to Puel's press conferences.

 

Puel speaks English you silly sausage. It was his horrendous managerial abilities people were upset with.

[DuncanRG]

Heard from them for a start.

 

Fair enough. The pleasantries of a press release would be nice, I suppose, but you don't see club owners giving press conferences. The ones who give interviews tend to either be very involved in footballing decisions (ala West Ham) or wait until they have a bit of a record to point to, as you get with some of the takeovers in the lower leagues.

 

Is there anything else? I'm struggling.

[adrian lord]

Do they speak English?

 

If not, the resident xenophobes would go into meltdown. Look how they reacted to Puel's press conferences.

 

Xenophobia? Saw no-one "reacting" to Pochettino not even trying to speak English and using an interpreter. Koeman was Dutch and was well respected.

 

Stick to The Canary, you will get more affirmation on there.

[Saint Billy]

Fair enough. The pleasantries of a press release would be nice, I suppose, but you don't see club owners giving press conferences. The ones who give interviews tend to either be very involved in footballing decisions (ala West Ham) or wait until they have a bit of a record to point to, as you get with some of the takeovers in the lower leagues.

 

Is there anything else? I'm struggling.

 

Some sort of statement of intent would be a good start.

 

The only noises I've heard is "Nothing is going to change" and "3x forward players will be put up for sell". How true this is is anyones guess but as we do not hear anything thats all we can do.

 

The club is in a downward spiral and a rallying call and moral booster would be welcome even if it is just to know that they are interested.

[Avenue_Saint]

Van dijk is still here.

[DuncanRG]

Some sort of statement of intent would be a good start.

 

The only noises I've heard is "Nothing is going to change" and "3x forward players will be put up for sell". How true this is is anyones guess but as we do not hear anything thats all we can do.

 

The club is in a downward spiral and a rallying call and moral booster would be welcome even if it is just to know that they are interested.

 

Yeah, I can get on board with that, but I'm not sure public statements are the best way for owners to boost morale. They'd get quite a lot of stick if they came out now and said their intent was to get back into Europe, which I assume it still is.

[skintsaint]

They are a great bunch of lads.

[Red]

I don't understand your reply as it addresses almost nothing in my post. My "moaning" is precisely about Les and the others deciding transfers.

 

Curious for your source re: Kat debt? Was it just refinanced to Mr Gao? Kat had from memory around £45m loan to the club with £6m annual interest.

 

I haven't seen 2016/17 accounts but the 2015/16 account forecast a 24% rise in wages 2016/17. Do you think our squad last year was worth the extra 24% on 2015/16? IMO it was our weakest squad since promotion. "Depth" is practical for big clubs competing in Europe each year. That's not us. The club was too ambitious thinking we'd be best-of-the-rest year on year Europa league participants and it led to some awful squad bloat/poor financial management. Our academy pathway is blocked. We have growing player unrest with a bunch of players thinking they deserve regular starts and not getting them. 6 CB's?

 

Sorry, was trying to quote two different comments, and obviously failed :-( Maybe you need full access for that? or someone smarter than me!

 

You are correct, Kat did put money in to the club, but not as a personal loan as it were, rather invested in to the club and to be recovered when it was eventually sold etc. So she has her money back after the Gao buy out. You could argue she may still have 20% of that (and I don't know for sure), but it would be highly unlikely and what purpose would it serve in any case?

 

One thing is for sure - no one invests £200M to p*ss it away, even if it is for non footballing reasons etc. etc. There will be a reaction, maybe silently and behind closed doors - look up Gao's history - he is not a man to be messed with!

 

As for the squad issue - that was not my comment, but I agree - they should all have a pay cut, not increase based on performance so far! Strange that players get performance bonuses for doing well, but not negative ones for being absolute garbage :-)

[Saint IQ]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

[Manuel]

A decent chow mein in the concourse wouldn't go a miss.

[Cabrone]

It's time for chairman Gao's cultural revolution.

 

Football is supposed to be entertaining.

[Charlie Wayman]

A decent chow mein in the concourse wouldn't go a miss.

 

A decent anything in the concourse woud be a good start.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Supposedly they struggled to round up the cash to buy the club. If that's true then there's no money to invest.

We still have some of Kat's loan to pay off. The clubs quite broke without big player sales. Wasting so much wage money on "depth" when we play once a week and in doing so we've completely blocked our academy so no money coming from there. Just a shambles of management the last 3 years trying to be too ambitious and now it's shooting us in the foot.

 

So some people with no money bought a club that is broke and has loans outstanding to the previous owner.

So what, in your opinion, are the reasons why chinese people, apparently with little interest in football, would borrow money, which will need repaying, to buy the club? Kat is most unlikely to have sold the club for less than the assets are worth, so quick asset stripping is not likely to gain them anything.

 

So I'd have thought they would have a long term plan to invest and grow its potential market in China. The fact that they aren't leaping up and down firing people is possibly a good sign?

[Ultimatt]

So some people with no money bought a club that is broke and has loans outstanding to the previous owner.

So what, in your opinion, are the reasons why chinese people, apparently with little interest in football, would borrow money, which will need repaying, to buy the club? Kat is most unlikely to have sold the club for less than the assets are worth, so quick asset stripping is not likely to gain them anything.

 

So I'd have thought they would have a long term plan to invest and grow its potential market in China. The fact that they aren't leaping up and down firing people is possibly a good sign?

 

Kat's #1 business is Construction.

We've already heard rumours of redeveloping all the land around the stadium.

Someone posted a link a long time ago about how the Chinese use these investments to build contacts to grow other businesses (Access to celebrities & other businessman).

 

Put 2+2 together and i'd say Mr Gao's investment is probably more about what happens off the field than on it. I'm sure he'd love the club to be successful but it won't be the be all end all so long as we're not relegated.

[ART]

As today's situation stands, by selling out to Gao, Katarina Liebherr betrayed her father, Saints fans and our future.

She made way for the disastrous position we find ourselves with no one with the guts to put us back on track and on the path of Markus's dream for our club.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Kat's #1 business is Construction.

We've already heard rumours of redeveloping all the land around the stadium.

Someone posted a link a long time ago about how the Chinese use these investments to build contacts to grow other businesses (Access to celebrities & other businessman).

 

Put 2+2 together and i'd say Mr Gao's investment is probably more about what happens off the field than on it. I'm sure he'd love the club to be successful but it won't be the be all end all so long as we're not relegated.

 

If her business is construction, why would she sell to the chinese if she intended her business to redevelop the land around the stadium?

Are you suggesting that she probably has some other 'agreement' with the chinese we haven't heard about that would get her off the pr disaster that running down the football club would bring about?

[verlaine1979]

My assumption has always been that buying European clubs using debt and then using club income to pay off the loans is a good way for wealthy Chinese to establish sizeable assets outside of China without getting into trouble for trying to move their money out of the country.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

My assumption has always been that buying European clubs using debt and then using club income to pay off the loans is a good way for wealthy Chinese to establish sizeable assets outside of China without getting into trouble for trying to move their money out of the country.

 

You are probably right about that. What I am unclear about is why they can borrow the funds to do that and others can't or won't. I can only assume they were the only ones that came anywhere close to paying what Kat wanted. We assume that Marcus never had such an intent but I'm not so sure. I think disposing of the club for a nice profit was always the intention and the little Italian thought he was in line for a share - but Marcus' death allowed Kat to cut him out of what was probably a private agreement. Guesswork, of course.

[Nordic Saint]

They have temporarily at least sated Kat's desire for cash by paying quarter of a billion euros into her Swiss bank account. That's a hell of a lot more than most of us have paid her with our season ticket money.

[Ultimatt]

If her business is construction, why would she sell to the chinese if she intended her business to redevelop the land around the stadium?

Are you suggesting that she probably has some other 'agreement' with the chinese we haven't heard about that would get her off the pr disaster that running down the football club would bring about?

 

https://www.liebherr.com/en/aus/about-liebherr/liebherr-worldwide/china/liebherr-in-china.html#!/content=lww-locations-china

 

It can be a win-win for both Kat and Gao off the field by driving up their other business ventures.

[CB Fry]

I thought Markus and, by extension, Katharina have nothing to do with the running of the Liebherr corporation?

 

And even if they did, their core business is not construction, it's construction machinery. Liebherr don't build urban developments.

 

And even if we accept a) Katharina suddenly being involved in Liebherr group and b) Liebherr group suddenly become real estate constructors then it still doesn't explain why she sold to the Chinese to do their own construction.

 

And, let's put aside the usual counter argument about why anyone needs to buy a football club to develop brownfield sites in a city when they could just buy the brownfield site on its own and get on with it.

 

I'm starting to think Ultimatt doesn't know what he's on about.

[alehouseboys]

And, let's put aside the usual counter argument about why anyone needs to buy a football club to develop brownfield sites in a city when they could just buy the brownfield site on its own and get on with it.

 

But what if part of that brownfield site they'd like to develop is occupied by a football stadium? That's potentially a lot of lucrative apartments. Cheap out-of-town replacement, even smaller capacity if we get relegated, easy money

 

Alternatively, they might have forked out over £200m to make us the new Man United in China :p

[Ultimatt]

I thought Markus and, by extension, Katharina have nothing to do with the running of the Liebherr corporation?

 

And even if they did, their core business is not construction, it's construction machinery. Liebherr don't build urban developments.

 

And even if we accept a) Katharina suddenly being involved in Liebherr group and b) Liebherr group suddenly become real estate constructors then it still doesn't explain why she sold to the Chinese to do their own construction.

 

And, let's put aside the usual counter argument about why anyone needs to buy a football club to develop brownfield sites in a city when they could just buy the brownfield site on its own and get on with it.

 

I'm starting to think Ultimatt doesn't know what he's on about.

 

Construction machinery is not construction? Semantics. How exactly do you build a skyscraper/bridge/dam without machinery?

 

I'm just posing possibilities of what their partnership entails. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of all their business dealings and relationships. But I think it's fair to say they're not buying the club thinking they can make profit on it. Football clubs traditionally don't make money. Would you disagree?

 

http://knowledge.ckgsb.edu.cn/2016/09/26/sports/chinese-companies-investing-football-clubs/

"As the buying spree goes on and the market keeps growing, it's worth mentioning there won't be only Chinese players. "Foreign entrepreneurs are also eyeing the Chinese market and so when they're selling, they would not sell 100% of the company or the club," says Feng. Feng's company Deal Globe has helped China tech company Baofeng to acquire 65% equity in MP&Silva. "The reason they held 35% is because they have high expectations in the Chinese market and hope to exploit it with its Chinese partner."

[JRM]

serious question as I don't know, are there any examples of successful Chinese ownership in English football?

[Ultimatt]

serious question as I don't know, are there any examples of successful Chinese ownership in English football?

 

Wolves are on track for promotion. Only one I can think of.

[so22saint]

the problem with Chinese owners is that half an hour later you want another one

[verlaine1979]

You are probably right about that. What I am unclear about is why they can borrow the funds to do that and others can't or won't. I can only assume they were the only ones that came anywhere close to paying what Kat wanted. We assume that Marcus never had such an intent but I'm not so sure. I think disposing of the club for a nice profit was always the intention and the little Italian thought he was in line for a share - but Marcus' death allowed Kat to cut him out of what was probably a private agreement. Guesswork, of course.

 

The reason no one else is doing it is presumably because it's a huge risk. The interest rates when the Glazers borrowed to buy Man U were between 14-16% per year, so if the club doesn't do as well as expected, that's a very large liability to have hanging over your head. Presumably, if the majority of your money is tied up in a non-democratic country with a fairly punitive attitude towards troublemakers, the risk seems worthwhile in a way it wouldn't to someone whose assets are already safely established in a variety of rule-of-law respecting tax havens.

[pluto]

I think fans deserve to know exactly what Gao told the premier league as to regards plans for the club.

 

If the takeover of the club was all about continuing in the same way then i suggest you re-employ the managers and players that have left to redo that.

 

Over the last two seasons we have seen two manaers employed that are not good enough and dont inspire the players.

 

There have been a number of players brought in also on big money that are not good enough for the top ten of the PL

 

Why does Gao not have any representation on the football board ?

 

If he has simply bought the club and is going to let the same people run the club, i dont see that ending well.

[aintforever]

serious question as I don't know, are there any examples of successful Chinese ownership in English football?

 

Was there a successful example of Swiss ownership before Marcus came along?

 

Wether our owner fails or is a huge success will have nothing to do with what country he was born in.

[verlaine1979]

Was there a successful example of Swiss ownership before Marcus came along?

 

Wether our owner fails or is a huge success will have nothing to do with what country he was born in.

 

Since all Chinese acquisitions seem to have one thing in common - huge amounts of debt - it seems fair to group them together and ask if any have been successful.

[shurlock]

Was there a successful example of Swiss ownership before Marcus came along?

 

Wether our owner fails or is a huge success will have nothing to do with what country he was born in.

 

Moronic

[aintforever]

Since all Chinese acquisitions seem to have one thing in common - huge amounts of debt - it seems fair to group them together and ask if any have been successful.

 

Maybe, but surely it's the type of acquisition (like the Glazers) that's important not what country they are from.

[CB Fry]

Construction machinery is not construction? Semantics. How exactly do you build a skyscraper/bridge/dam without machinery?

 

I'm just posing possibilities of what their partnership entails. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of all their business dealings and relationships. But I think it's fair to say they're not buying the club thinking they can make profit on it. Football clubs traditionally don't make money. Would you disagree?

 

http://knowledge.ckgsb.edu.cn/2016/09/26/sports/chinese-companies-investing-football-clubs/

"As the buying spree goes on and the market keeps growing, it's worth mentioning there won't be only Chinese players. "Foreign entrepreneurs are also eyeing the Chinese market and so when they're selling, they would not sell 100% of the company or the club," says Feng. Feng's company Deal Globe has helped China tech company Baofeng to acquire 65% equity in MP&Silva. "The reason they held 35% is because they have high expectations in the Chinese market and hope to exploit it with its Chinese partner."

 

The machinery industry is not the construction industry. That's not "semantics", they are different sectors.

 

If its the same why don't JCB have loads of real estate projects on the go? Or the Black and Decker corporation? After all, its all the same innit.

[simo]

Bumped into Leon Crouch in the petrol stating in lymington , He wasn't very complementary about the new owners I won't tell you what he called them !