Our thick entitled fans

[Shroppie]

To be honest I think 6 home games in a row without scoring and being booed on the "lap of appreciation" was the final nail in the coffin, I remember the anger around me in the ground when we went out of Europe against Hapoel Be'ersheva, I don't miss Puel but I didn't particularly want him out mainly on the basis I had little confidence in us getting a good replacement.

 

Going to St Marys in 2017 has generally been a chore, last night I didn't sense anger in the stands, just lots of apathy and people not caring anymore. Sad state of affairs.

 

players look disinterested.

I've watched two 'home' games this week, u23s getting beat 2-4 v Wolves. First IX getting beaten 1-4 v Leicester.

 

Tonight is FA youth cup at St Marys u18s v Wolves, can they make it a hat trick of disappointments?

Probably.

 

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[Shroppie]

Agree to an extent.

 

Our fans have turned in to typical spoilt Premier League brats. 8th place and a f*cking cup final. Quality of football may not have been great but people going on about entertainment factor as if they've gone to watch a show or a film. If that's the be all and end all for some people then why aren't they going to watch City/Arsenal?

 

Unfortunately it's a downward spiral now. Our 'support' has changed so much that we won't get behind anyone unless there's instant success and will keep hounding players and managers. Have said it before but I'm sure within the next few years we'll end up relegated again and it won't be the end of the world. We can shed our c*nty fans and get back to supporting the side and enjoying going to football again.

I'm pretty well with you in that assessment. But I do think two things have happened with our fanbase. Firstly, some who joined as we rise from League 1 got used to seeing us win regularly, often playing nice football (but it wasn't always good) and don't appreciate that in the PL it's a different game. We're not going to walk over teams every week, and the more open attacking football we play, the more likely we are to get beaten. All successful PL teams start with a settled solid defence.

 

Secondly, because we're in the PL, we attract more football spectators who I wouldn't call supporters.

 

One thing is certainly true. The atmosphere at St Mary's is now toxic. Far too many want to blame rather than support.

 

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[eurosaint]

I'm pretty well with you in that assessment. But I do think two things have happened with our fanbase. Firstly, some who joined as we rise from League 1 got used to seeing us win regularly, often playing nice football (but it wasn't always good) and don't appreciate that in the PL it's a different game. We're not going to walk over teams every week, and the more open attacking football we play, the more likely we are to get beaten. All successful PL teams start with a settled solid defence.

 

Secondly, because we're in the PL, we attract more football spectators who I wouldn't call supporters.

 

One thing is certainly true. The atmosphere at St Mary's is now toxic. Far too many want to blame rather than support.

 

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Booing and leaving early is definitely not a good way to show support and personally I find it embarrassing in the extreme !

Claude will enjoy his day in the sun until he loses Mahrez and/or Vardy or even just a few games on the trot . After that he will become a statistic just like Ranieri !

Last night, the conditions suited their direct, pacy style perfectly (admittedly we were crap as well) so he got a great result but things change so quickly in the PL - hero to zero is the mantra !

Always remember, "it's only a game" !!

[Appy]

To be honest I think 6 home games in a row without scoring and being booed on the "lap of appreciation" was the final nail in the coffin, I remember the anger around me in the ground when we went out of Europe against Hapoel Be'ersheva, I don't miss Puel but I didn't particularly want him out mainly on the basis I had little confidence in us getting a good replacement.

 

Going to St Marys in 2017 has generally been a chore, last night I didn't sense anger in the stands, just lots of apathy and people not caring anymore. Sad state of affairs.

 

players look disinterested.

I've watched two 'home' games this week, u23s getting beat 2-4 v Wolves. First IX getting beaten 1-4 v Leicester.

 

Tonight is FA youth cup at St Marys u18s v Wolves, can they make it a hat trick of disappointments?

 

Great point about the apathy, it’s been heading that way for a while.

[max_saints]

To the Puel out people who keep trotting out the ‘but we did not ask for such a sh!t replacement’ excuse and blaming that on the crowd, who else could we have appointed that was gonna maintain top 10 and get the team scoring 4-5 goals per game?

 

Tuchel? lol and please do not name that Watford guy as well, they just lost 2-1 to CP. I strongly believe if we had given Puel another season, with the likes of Lemina added, we wouldn’t be in this mess now. And even if the football does not improve, at least we won’t be nervously looking over our shoulders for the rest of the season.

[Appy]

To the Puel out people who keep trotting out the ‘but we did not ask for such a sh!t replacement’ excuse and blaming that on the crowd, who else could we have appointed that was gonna maintain top 10 and get the team scoring 4-5 goals per game?

 

Tuchel? lol and please do not name that Watford guy as well, they just lost 2-1 to CP. I strongly believe if we had given Puel another season, with the likes of Lemina added, we wouldn’t be in this mess now. And even if the football does not improve, at least we won’t be nervously looking over our shoulders for the rest of the season.

 

I’m not sure not wanting a terrible replacement is an “excuse”.

[Micky]

Hahahahaha!!!!

I can only guess that most of the puel in brigade don’t have season tickets.

Because the football from January last season was probably the most dull I’ve seen in 30 Year’s of going to st Mary’s. Most of the ST holders around me were seriously debating whether to renew because the level of entertainment was zero.

Yes.. we finished 8th. So what?? I’d rather have finished 17th and enjoyed some exciting football.

Yes.. we got to a cup final. Let’s not re write history here... if Liverpool had brought their shooting boots they’d have stuck 4 past us in the semi.

Watching us set up at home to play defensively and on the counter attack at home to HULL was a particularly low moment.

I didn’t expect Reed to go for a similarly inept manager 2nd time round but he gets a buzz from gambling on a bargain doesn’t he?

 

Thick and entitled? The OP is a 1st class pri#k.

 

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So let's not, but you did.

[Shroppie]

To the Puel out people who keep trotting out the ‘but we did not ask for such a sh!t replacement’ excuse and blaming that on the crowd, who else could we have appointed that was gonna maintain top 10 and get the team scoring 4-5 goals per game?

 

Tuchel? lol and please do not name that Watford guy as well, they just lost 2-1 to CP. I strongly believe if we had given Puel another season, with the likes of Lemina added, we wouldn’t be in this mess now. And even if the football does not improve, at least we won’t be nervously looking over our shoulders for the rest of the season.

Absolutely. As I posted on another thread, Puel's admitting that last season was a learning curve and he made mistakes, but will be a better manager for them.

 

So instead of benefitting from his year's experience and giving him another go with better players, we change to another apprentice.

 

Remember Claude had no fit effective strikers for most of the season and an injured sulky VVD for half a season but got results. And Black, but that's another story. But his style of play, or actually his own style, was boring. And that was clearly unacceptable.

 

I have to agree I don't think Pellegrino is a patch on Puel, who is an intelligent thoughtful man but rather dour in his press conferences, which is all important to some of our less perceptive spectators (not fans) He deserved another year.

 

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Edited 14 December, 2017 by Shroppie

[aintforever]

On the subject of re-writing history, I don't remember a huge clamour for the fans to get rid of Puel. I may be wrong but all I remember is a few chants from the back of the Northam during the second half of the final game and a bit of booing at the final whistle.

 

If idiot fans have to throw the blame around then it has to be in the direction of Les Reed, not just for the sacking or the bizarre replacement but the month of ****ing around doing nothing in between. the whole thing smacks of the complacency that got us relegated last time.

[doddisalegend]

Hahahahaha!!!!

I can only guess that most of the puel in brigade don’t have season tickets.

Because the football from January last season was probably the most dull I’ve seen in 30 Year’s of going to st Mary’s. Most of the ST holders around me were seriously debating whether to renew because the level of entertainment was zero.

Yes.. we finished 8th. So what?? I’d rather have finished 17th and enjoyed some exciting football.

Yes.. we got to a cup final. Let’s not re write history here... if Liverpool had brought their shooting boots they’d have stuck 4 past us in the semi.

Watching us set up at home to play defensively and on the counter attack at home to HULL was a particularly low moment.

I didn’t expect Reed to go for a similarly inept manager 2nd time round but he gets a buzz from gambling on a bargain doesn’t he?

 

Thick and entitled? The OP is a 1st class pri#k.

 

 

 

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is that the same Liverpool who failed to put one past us in four separate games last season did they forget their shooting boots in all four games?

[scotty]

is that the same Liverpool who failed to put one past us in four separate games last season did they forget their shooting boots in all four games?

 

Yes. It's also the same liverpool who had a last-minute penalty brilliantly saved by our keeper, who is, of course, utter sh*te.

[adrian lord]

If the Board pandered to "thick, entitled fans" when they sacked Puel, then God help the club. It is utter tosh. They sacked him for their own reasons, which of course may have converged with the reasons that the vast majority of fans wanted him out by the end of the season, but not because of, or at the behest of the fans.

 

Most fans feel that clubs don't listen to them enough and that we are taken for granted - now all of a sudden it is mob rule forcing the Board to sack a managerial genius?

 

There's Pony, and there's Pony and Trap.

[Baldbarbarian]

Agree to an extent.

 

Our fans have turned in to typical spoilt Premier League brats. 8th place and a f*cking cup final. Quality of football may not have been great but people going on about entertainment factor as if they've gone to watch a show or a film. If that's the be all and end all for some people then why aren't they going to watch City/Arsenal?

 

Unfortunately it's a downward spiral now. Our 'support' has changed so much that we won't get behind anyone unless there's instant success and will keep hounding players and managers. Have said it before but I'm sure within the next few years we'll end up relegated again and it won't be the end of the world. We can shed our c*nty fans and get back to supporting the side and enjoying going to football again.

 

Absolutely spot on

[rshephard3]

Agree to an extent.

 

Our fans have turned in to typical spoilt Premier League brats. 8th place and a f*cking cup final. Quality of football may not have been great but people going on about entertainment factor as if they've gone to watch a show or a film. If that's the be all and end all for some people then why aren't they going to watch City/Arsenal?

 

Unfortunately it's a downward spiral now. Our 'support' has changed so much that we won't get behind anyone unless there's instant success and will keep hounding players and managers. Have said it before but I'm sure within the next few years we'll end up relegated again and it won't be the end of the world. We can shed our c*nty fans and get back to supporting the side and enjoying going to football again.

 

This completely sums it up for me. Someone earlier said Puel was the “worst Saints manager for decades”. That is absolutely laughable. He’s one of the most successful Saints managers in living memory. If you don’t like the style of football required to be PL ‘best of the rest’ then go to the cinema-at least you get to choose the viewing. Leave the rest of us to follow the club that’s in our hearts without throwing our toys every time we fail to beat a West Brom or a West Ham. Breaking news everyone, we’re at that level and have been, give or take, for as long as most of us have been going.

 

While I’m at it, anyone who thinks the fans constant booing and undermining of CP last season had nothing to do with him getting the boot is deluded. And as for “we don’t want CP or MP waaaaa waaaa”.. which one of Mourinho and Guardiola do you think we can attract to pop their Mercedes down to St Mary’s every few weeks? Genuinely interested?

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

On the subject of re-writing history, I don't remember a huge clamour for the fans to get rid of Puel. I may be wrong but all I remember is a few chants from the back of the Northam during the second half of the final game and a bit of booing at the final whistle.

 

If idiot fans have to throw the blame around then it has to be in the direction of Les Reed, not just for the sacking or the bizarre replacement but the month of ****ing around doing nothing in between. the whole thing smacks of the complacency that got us relegated last time.

 

Well I remember people wanting Puel out, Our very own Batman even insisted that he would be gone by Christmas. I also remember people wanting Koeman out when we went through a blip. Football fans make a fuss about the lack of loyalty shown by players, but lose a few football matches and people demand your head if you are a manager. We are a mid table side in a mid table position. God knows how the bed wetters will manage if we ever slip into the bottom three.

[aintforever]

Well I remember people wanting Puel out, Our very own Batman even insisted that he would be gone by Christmas. I also remember people wanting Koeman out when we went through a blip. Football fans make a fuss about the lack of loyalty shown by players, but lose a few football matches and people demand your head if you are a manager. We are a mid table side in a mid table position. God knows how the bed wetters will manage if we ever slip into the bottom three.

 

I'm not talking about this place, I'm talking about the actual supporters at the games - they are the only ones who matter or could effect change and there was precious little to put pressure on the club to sack Puel. A few boos and songs from a handful in the Northam.

[simo]

I wouldn't change anything , his football was the worst I've seen us play in a decade !

[eurosaint]

Well I remember people wanting Puel out, Our very own Batman even insisted that he would be gone by Christmas. I also remember people wanting Koeman out when we went through a blip. Football fans make a fuss about the lack of loyalty shown by players, but lose a few football matches and people demand your head if you are a manager. We are a mid table side in a mid table position. God knows how the bed wetters will manage if we ever slip into the bottom three.

 

And now they want Pellegrino out !

Less than 20 games played, 11th in the table, showed some recent encouraging signs until yesterday's debacle. These guys take no prisoners

[St_Tel49]

No issue with parting with puel as the football was turgid at times but replacing him with someone who's completely out of his depth is the issue.

 

Puell went from managing a team who couldn't convert its numerous chances to a team that could. The manager really was not the issue. Neither was it the manager's fault yesterday. I had no qualms about the team he put out - it was an attacking formation. It was the players who failed dismally. With the honourable exception of Bertram, Austen and Forster the rest just did not turn up. They all allowed them selves to be harried and bullied and finally got the result their efforts deserved. Pelligrini has made mistakes but yesterday was the player's fault. I suspect that that was also true for Puell's reign.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What sums up the ignorance of some of our fans was a conversation I overheard queuing for a slash at half time. The gist of which was “why couldn’t Puel produce a performance like that for us”. He did, some of our away performances were excellent, in fact our away performances were as consistent as under his two direct predecessors.

 

 

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[St Marco]

Some of the stuff posted in here is just pure delusion and more a case of 'I told you so' than anything else.

 

Firstly the whole entertainment thing. The problem with this is I can only assume some are talking from memory of 60s and 70s football where match ticket prices were tiny in comparison to what they are now.

My sister went to yesterdays game with her husband and two kids. They sat in the family wing. It cost them around £100 for the tickets. Add to that the cost of getting there on the train bumps that up a lot.

For the best part of £150 is it wrong to expect a bit of entertainment? The problem isn't down to the fans its down to football as a whole. It has become a massive money making machine and the club should be providing entertainment to justify those costs.

If you can afford to throw away money like that and not care what is on show then fair play to you but you are obviously not living in the real world where real people cannot do that. Especially with how the cost of living has soared since the financial meltdown.

Back in the day when you would pay £10 to watch a game obviously it was not so bad if you played crap because it was only a tenner.

Football is entertainment. If it was not then why would tv companies pay billions to show it on their tv channel. Or is tv not entertainment now either?

 

Secondly the Puel thing. I was not in the Puel in or out camp. I gave the guy a lot of time to see how his style would be. And upon reflection his style was boring and he deserved to be sacked. I was at the cup final and it was a great day for the club. But lets not pretend we were some amazing attacking football team.

We were almost 20 points down on the previous season. Around 20 goals scored less on the previous season. Had the 4th worst home record in the league. Scored only 17 goals at home all season (2nd to last). Failed to score in 15 games (41% of our entire fixtures). And won once in our last 8 games to the season. We finished 8th not because how great we were but because how everyone else was equally as crap.

If the season went on another game or two we wouldn't have been 8th for sure. Add to this people seem to have forgotten the beatings we got against Hull, Palace, West Brom, Everton, Burnley, Swansea, West Ham and how could you forget that wonderful game against those world beaters Stoke? And don't forget our amazing performances against the top 6! Where we won a grand total of **** all and lost 8 of them. Scoring a grand total of 6 goals in them. And I can't even be bothered to talk about the Europa league....

 

The fans didn't get Puel sacked. His football was the polar opposite to what we had seen in previous seasons. Free flowing attacking football replaced with ultra defensive slow boring football. That has continued into this season with our new manager. The fans were being told how we had the best midfield in the league. How our goal was to get to the CL as we were 'CL ready'. How all other clubs envied us and so on. Football is a business and if ticket sales start to go down business people tend to get worried. Its no coincidence Kat sold when she did. She sold us because the value was going to decrease. Buy low and sell high. I will always be appreciative to her and her father for what they did here but again lets not pretend she didn't make that decision based on financial forecasts.

 

For me as I have said countless times our problems are not down to the fans. If we went into this season with Puel in charge I don't think we would be doing any better. We currently have 2 wins from 12 games and in our next 4 fixtures we have Chelsea, Spurs and Utd away. At the end of those games it will show our true league position and show just how bad our results have been. The worst part is in that period the teams below us all start to play each other so some of them will be gaining points on us.

The problem is the decision making process above the manager. Who was the person who decided rather than continue our progress to change the manager and change the style of play that had made us successful? Who was the guy who decided to bring in a massive amount of defence minded players? One of them who we paid a **** load of money for couldn't even get on the bench yesterday. Who was the guy who sacked Puel and then basically brought in a guy who will play the same way?

Who has assembled a squad of average players whilst allowing the best players to leave? That has caught up with us.

 

Getting rid of MoPo will not change a thing if the decision making above him remains as poor as it has been. I don't blame the fans one bit. They pay good money which goes into the pockets of very rich people who are here for their supposed superior ability to play football. They have no control or say in what Reed and co do. And to think they do as said is delusional.

[Saint-Fred]

Some of the stuff posted in here is just pure delusion and more a case of 'I told you so' than anything else.

 

Firstly the whole entertainment thing. The problem with this is I can only assume some are talking from memory of 60s and 70s football where match ticket prices were tiny in comparison to what they are now.

My sister went to yesterdays game with her husband and two kids. They sat in the family wing. It cost them around £100 for the tickets. Add to that the cost of getting there on the train bumps that up a lot.

For the best part of £150 is it wrong to expect a bit of entertainment? The problem isn't down to the fans its down to football as a whole. It has become a massive money making machine and the club should be providing entertainment to justify those costs.

If you can afford to throw away money like that and not care what is on show then fair play to you but you are obviously not living in the real world where real people cannot do that. Especially with how the cost of living has soared since the financial meltdown.

Back in the day when you would pay £10 to watch a game obviously it was not so bad if you played crap because it was only a tenner.

Football is entertainment. If it was not then why would tv companies pay billions to show it on their tv channel. Or is tv not entertainment now either?

 

Secondly the Puel thing. I was not in the Puel in or out camp. I gave the guy a lot of time to see how his style would be. And upon reflection his style was boring and he deserved to be sacked. I was at the cup final and it was a great day for the club. But lets not pretend we were some amazing attacking football team.

We were almost 20 points down on the previous season. Around 20 goals scored less on the previous season. Had the 4th worst home record in the league. Scored only 17 goals at home all season (2nd to last). Failed to score in 15 games (41% of our entire fixtures). And won once in our last 8 games to the season. We finished 8th not because how great we were but because how everyone else was equally as crap.

If the season went on another game or two we wouldn't have been 8th for sure. Add to this people seem to have forgotten the beatings we got against Hull, Palace, West Brom, Everton, Burnley, Swansea, West Ham and how could you forget that wonderful game against those world beaters Stoke? And don't forget our amazing performances against the top 6! Where we won a grand total of **** all and lost 8 of them. Scoring a grand total of 6 goals in them. And I can't even be bothered to talk about the Europa league....

 

The fans didn't get Puel sacked. His football was the polar opposite to what we had seen in previous seasons. Free flowing attacking football replaced with ultra defensive slow boring football. That has continued into this season with our new manager. The fans were being told how we had the best midfield in the league. How our goal was to get to the CL as we were 'CL ready'. How all other clubs envied us and so on. Football is a business and if ticket sales start to go down business people tend to get worried. Its no coincidence Kat sold when she did. She sold us because the value was going to decrease. Buy low and sell high. I will always be appreciative to her and her father for what they did here but again lets not pretend she didn't make that decision based on financial forecasts.

 

For me as I have said countless times our problems are not down to the fans. If we went into this season with Puel in charge I don't think we would be doing any better. We currently have 2 wins from 12 games and in our next 4 fixtures we have Chelsea, Spurs and Utd away. At the end of those games it will show our true league position and show just how bad our results have been. The worst part is in that period the teams below us all start to play each other so some of them will be gaining points on us.

The problem is the decision making process above the manager. Who was the person who decided rather than continue our progress to change the manager and change the style of play that had made us successful? Who was the guy who decided to bring in a massive amount of defence minded players? One of them who we paid a **** load of money for couldn't even get on the bench yesterday. Who was the guy who sacked Puel and then basically brought in a guy who will play the same way?

Who has assembled a squad of average players whilst allowing the best players to leave? That has caught up with us.

 

Getting rid of MoPo will not change a thing if the decision making above him remains as poor as it has been. I don't blame the fans one bit. They pay good money which goes into the pockets of very rich people who are here for their supposed superior ability to play football. They have no control or say in what Reed and co do. And to think they do as said is delusional.

 

Well said

[LuckyNumber7]

Well I guess we can agree to disagree on individual home performances last year, but I seem to remember we struggled to get out of our defensive third v hull so we brought on Shane long and tried to boot it over the top in an attempt to get up the pitch.

 

But yes, there were some good performances last season under puel... notably the cup final.

 

And I’m aware this is not the Harlem globetrotters. However, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t expect to see some notion of attacking exciting football and taking the game to the opposition. You are aware it’s not an endurance sport right? Professional sport with thousands of paying fans is meant to be a fun thing to be involved in...I think most of us have been watching through gritted teeth for about a year. Turgid football, zero atmosphere, st Mary’s is not a fun place to go these days.

 

Oh.. and for all the talk, me and those around me who questioned whether they were going to renew did. And stayed until the end last night. And will still be renewing when we’re back down in league one.

 

Puel was poor for us, MP is even worse. That doesn’t make the decision to get rid of puel was wrong, it means the decision to employ MP was.

 

 

 

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Agree with all of that, great post. I also stayed to the end last night, it was atrocious but no way would I want Puel back, last season drained me of my enthusiasm and I have no doubt we would be in a similar situation if he was still here. Going to St Mary's the last 18 months has been a joyless experience. Apathy reigns.

[View From The Top]

What sums up the ignorance of some of our fans was a conversation I overheard queuing for a slash at half time. The gist of which was “why couldn’t Puel produce a performance like that for us”. He did, some of our away performances were excellent, in fact our away performances were as consistent as under his two direct predecessors.

 

Away from home last season we were excellent at times and I really enjoyed the football. I usually went to away games expecting to win.

 

We had the usual bad days such as at Palace but no complaints from me about away games.

 

I rarely go to home games now but understands peoples frustrations at those results but to cast him as clueless and boring is just plain wrong.

[davefoggy]

Some of the stuff posted in here is just pure delusion and more a case of 'I told you so' than anything else.

 

Firstly the whole entertainment thing. The problem with this is I can only assume some are talking from memory of 60s and 70s football where match ticket prices were tiny in comparison to what they are now.

My sister went to yesterdays game with her husband and two kids. They sat in the family wing. It cost them around £100 for the tickets. Add to that the cost of getting there on the train bumps that up a lot.

For the best part of £150 is it wrong to expect a bit of entertainment? The problem isn't down to the fans its down to football as a whole. It has become a massive money making machine and the club should be providing entertainment to justify those costs.

If you can afford to throw away money like that and not care what is on show then fair play to you but you are obviously not living in the real world where real people cannot do that. Especially with how the cost of living has soared since the financial meltdown.

Back in the day when you would pay £10 to watch a game obviously it was not so bad if you played crap because it was only a tenner.

Football is entertainment. If it was not then why would tv companies pay billions to show it on their tv channel. Or is tv not entertainment now either?

 

Secondly the Puel thing. I was not in the Puel in or out camp. I gave the guy a lot of time to see how his style would be. And upon reflection his style was boring and he deserved to be sacked. I was at the cup final and it was a great day for the club. But lets not pretend we were some amazing attacking football team.

We were almost 20 points down on the previous season. Around 20 goals scored less on the previous season. Had the 4th worst home record in the league. Scored only 17 goals at home all season (2nd to last). Failed to score in 15 games (41% of our entire fixtures). And won once in our last 8 games to the season. We finished 8th not because how great we were but because how everyone else was equally as crap.

If the season went on another game or two we wouldn't have been 8th for sure. Add to this people seem to have forgotten the beatings we got against Hull, Palace, West Brom, Everton, Burnley, Swansea, West Ham and how could you forget that wonderful game against those world beaters Stoke? And don't forget our amazing performances against the top 6! Where we won a grand total of **** all and lost 8 of them. Scoring a grand total of 6 goals in them. And I can't even be bothered to talk about the Europa league....

 

The fans didn't get Puel sacked. His football was the polar opposite to what we had seen in previous seasons. Free flowing attacking football replaced with ultra defensive slow boring football. That has continued into this season with our new manager. The fans were being told how we had the best midfield in the league. How our goal was to get to the CL as we were 'CL ready'. How all other clubs envied us and so on. Football is a business and if ticket sales start to go down business people tend to get worried. Its no coincidence Kat sold when she did. She sold us because the value was going to decrease. Buy low and sell high. I will always be appreciative to her and her father for what they did here but again lets not pretend she didn't make that decision based on financial forecasts.

 

For me as I have said countless times our problems are not down to the fans. If we went into this season with Puel in charge I don't think we would be doing any better. We currently have 2 wins from 12 games and in our next 4 fixtures we have Chelsea, Spurs and Utd away. At the end of those games it will show our true league position and show just how bad our results have been. The worst part is in that period the teams below us all start to play each other so some of them will be gaining points on us.

The problem is the decision making process above the manager. Who was the person who decided rather than continue our progress to change the manager and change the style of play that had made us successful? Who was the guy who decided to bring in a massive amount of defence minded players? One of them who we paid a **** load of money for couldn't even get on the bench yesterday. Who was the guy who sacked Puel and then basically brought in a guy who will play the same way?

Who has assembled a squad of average players whilst allowing the best players to leave? That has caught up with us.

 

Getting rid of MoPo will not change a thing if the decision making above him remains as poor as it has been. I don't blame the fans one bit. They pay good money which goes into the pockets of very rich people who are here for their supposed superior ability to play football. They have no control or say in what Reed and co do. And to think they do as said is delusional.

 

Excellent post

[Pamplemousse]

What sums up the ignorance of some of our fans was a conversation I overheard queuing for a slash at half time. The gist of which was “why couldn’t Puel produce a performance like that for us”. He did, some of our away performances were excellent, in fact our away performances were as consistent as under his two direct predecessors.

 

 

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Let's not forget - our top scorer was injured for most of the season, and our best player and defender missed half of the season as well. On top of all of the extra games. I said it at the time it was a miracle we got 8th place.

 

Facts will show that it was a disastrous decision to sack him, one that has weakened us and consequently strengthened a rival. People who insist that it was the right decision are either very stupid or don't want to admit that they were wrong.

[kyle04]

Having watched Saints for nearly 40 years (remember Phil Boyer, Steve Williams et al ....?) generally we are doing OK. Look how many similar size clubs are in the Championship and likely to remain there for a while. We're never gonna get a Pep and 300 million to spend. Ever. I think the issue with SFC at the moment is a lack of consistancy, from individual performances and team selection. Our much lauded academy system seems to be producing very little final product for us lately. Everyone wants the quick fix and instant "success", whatever the measure for that is. The "top 4" is now a "top 6" and likely to remain so. We will not be a part of that barring a freak season on the lines of Leicester. New signings either fail or flourish and leave the club. PL Managers are lucky to last a whole season. The average fans mindset I believe is based on the obscene amounts of money involved in the game, both in transfer fees and players wages, Boufal earns twice the yearly salary of the average fan in one week, so why dosen't he play like Messi, for example. I said to friends some years ago that spending in football could't be sustained, but it seems to escalate year on year ( I presume because the Chinese want to watch the Manchester derby - thanks Pep and Jose, any crumbs left....)

[Toadhall Saint]

Agree to an extent.

 

Our fans have turned in to typical spoilt Premier League brats. 8th place and a f*cking cup final. Quality of football may not have been great but people going on about entertainment factor as if they've gone to watch a show or a film. If that's the be all and end all for some people then why aren't they going to watch City/Arsenal?

 

Unfortunately it's a downward spiral now. Our 'support' has changed so much that we won't get behind anyone unless there's instant success and will keep hounding players and managers. Have said it before but I'm sure within the next few years we'll end up relegated again and it won't be the end of the world. We can shed our c*nty fans and get back to supporting the side and enjoying going to football again.

 

[emoji106]

[Saint Benali]

Our fans have turned in to typical spoilt Premier League brats. 8th place and a f*cking cup final. Quality of football may not have been great but people going on about entertainment factor as if they've gone to watch a show or a film. If that's the be all and end all for some people then why aren't they going to watch City/Arsenal?

 

Out of interest how much do you pay per year supporting Saints? The fact you think it isn't about entertainment would suggest nothing right? Very easy to sit behind a keyboard and bash our supporters but at least they are out there paying a grand or more to watch the team. Are you saying they are getting value for money then?

[Shroppie]

Out of interest how much do you pay per year supporting Saints? The fact you think it isn't about entertainment would suggest nothing right? Very easy to sit behind a keyboard and bash our supporters but at least they are out there paying a grand or more to watch the team. Are you saying they are getting value for money then?

Call me stupid but it costs me about £3k a year to follow Saints. But I'm never angry that they're not entertaining me.

 

Frequently depressed after a bad performance, maybe annoyed with a bad team selection or players no giving their all, but also excited by wins and the great moments you never forget.

 

Yes, I'll come on here and criticise and hypothesise about what's wrong when it's wrong or be ridiculously optimistic after a good result.

 

It's called being a supporter, rather than a spectator. It's what I do, and I'm lucky enough to be able to not care what it costs.

 

Which raises the question. If you go to be entertained and don't like paying, or can't afford it, why bother?

 

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Edited 14 December, 2017 by Shroppie

[Lord Duckhunter]

Out of interest how much do you pay per year supporting Saints? The fact you think it isn't about entertainment would suggest nothing right? Very easy to sit behind a keyboard and bash our supporters but at least they are out there paying a grand or more to watch the team. Are you saying they are getting value for money then?

 

What a load of pony. It's not about value for money or entertainment, it's about going to watch a sporting contest. I want to see my team win first and foremost and if they entertain me doing so, then that's a bonus. Were you entertained last night? Because I ****ing wasn't . A neutral would of been because Leicester played some really smashing stuff. Personally, I'd have preferred a 0-0 draw.

 

 

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[Shroppie]

What a load of pony. It's not about value for money or entertainment, it's about going to watch a sporting contest. I want to see my team win first and foremost and if they entertain me doing so, then that's a bonus. Were you entertained last night? Because I ****ing wasn't . A neutral would of been because Leicester played some really smashing stuff. Personally, I'd have preferred a 0-0 draw.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely right.

 

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[Saint Benali]

Call me stupid but it costs me about £3k a year to follow Saints. But I'm never angry that they're not entertaining me.

 

Frequently depressed after a bad performance, maybe annoyed with a bad team selection or players no giving their all, but also excited by wins and the great moments you never forget.

 

Yes, I'll come on here and criticise and hypothesise about what's wrong when it's wrong or be ridiculously optimistic after a good result.

 

It's called being a supporter, rather than a spectator. It's what I do, and I'm lucky enough to be able to not care what it costs.

 

Which raises the question. If you go to be entertained and don't like paying, or can't afford it, why bother?

 

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I find what you say quite interesting.

 

If you spend that much on Saints then fair play to you. I'm pretty sure the average person on the street couldn't do that. As you say you are lucky enough not to care about the costs. Naturally from high up there you will see things differently from those down here.

That is where football has gone. The lower income people cannot afford to go to the matches as they have been priced out by the clubs we support. They are so grateful for the support that regardless of making a mega fortune from tv deals they continue to keep ticket prices high. As you say if you cant afford to go then why bother right? I used to have three season tickets for me and my sons but no longer can justify paying the amount I was. When you are near to the bread line you have to decide what is more important? Being able to pay rip off fuel prices, house prices and food or spend all that money going to the games? I am very happy you can afford to do so without a care in the world and are a great supporter. More so then us who can no longer go.

 

The other thing I find interesting is as you say you criticise the club, the players, the manager and so on. A quick look at your posts shows you are not a fan of Tadic, Redmond or Forster? Even impying that they should be replaced? So what is it you are supporting exactly and how is that different from what others are saying? Everyone wants the club to do well. And no matter where we are or what league we are in it will continue to be supported. However to suggest it isn't entertainment is just wrong. Football is a sport and is a spectacle thus is entertainment. The more entertaining something is the better it will do. More people will become interested and more money will be made from it. Look at attendances in the PL in comparison to the other leagues. People pay a lot of money to go watch the games. Even you I am sure wouldn't pay 3k to watch a team that was beat and playing poor every week ie Sunderland?

[doddisalegend]

Out of interest how much do you pay per year supporting Saints? The fact you think it isn't about entertainment would suggest nothing right? Very easy to sit behind a keyboard and bash our supporters but at least they are out there paying a grand or more to watch the team. Are you saying they are getting value for money then?

 

I'm interested how this value for money vs entertainment thing works. Is it just saints fans that need to get value for money being entertained or is it the fans of other teams to? Leicester fans probably felt they got excellent value for money last night and were probably very entertained they to probably spend a lot of money supporting their team.

 

Lets be honest entertainment basically means winning what you are actually saying is you spend a lot of money and you expect to see us win for that money right? Of course the club has no way to guarantee that because you pay to watch a live sporting event the outcome of which isn't fixed in advance.

 

and to answer the question yes I have an ST I do pay to watch saints and clearly feel I get value for money or I wouldn't bother.

[Dalek2003]

I was one of the Puel in brigade and I have a season ticket. I also witnessed some really really good away performances.

 

As for the Liverpool semi final, you are the one rewriting history. It all well and good coming out with this pony about the second leg and their "shooting boots", had we had ours on first leg they'd have been 4 down from that. Very convenient loss of memory there. The fact is over 2 legs we thoroughly deserved to win.

 

We did not sit back and hope to hit Hull on the counter attack, if that's how you viewed that game, **** me you must be clueless.

 

You'd rather finish 17th than 8th provided you're entertained, what is this, the Harlem ****ing globetrotters. And you and your buddies around you were seriously considering jacking in your support. I wish you had of, you're hardly the example of loyal supporters.

 

Still at least you got to see some exciting football last night. Of course it meant the loss of 3 points, but that doesn't matter to you does it, rather that than a boring old 0-0.

 

 

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Well said.

 

Oh and all this 'rewriting of history' debate? Well, look at what happened after the debacle of the failure to appoint Hoddle in 2004. Club disintegrated, but would the vocal minority admit their mistake? Would they heck !

 

I suffered a torrent of abuse as my case against them was a little too uncomfortable. But, time and time again the Dalek proved that if you are persistent you will defeat those that try to re write their mistakes.

[The9]

Exactly this. It's also worth pointing out that Puel didn't get us playing anywhere near like that last season.

 

Wellllllllllllll there were those two 4 goal away wins...

[Shroppie]

I find what you say quite interesting.

 

If you spend that much on Saints then fair play to you. I'm pretty sure the average person on the street couldn't do that. As you say you are lucky enough not to care about the costs. Naturally from high up there you will see things differently from those down here.

That is where football has gone. The lower income people cannot afford to go to the matches as they have been priced out by the clubs we support. They are so grateful for the support that regardless of making a mega fortune from tv deals they continue to keep ticket prices high. As you say if you cant afford to go then why bother right? I used to have three season tickets for me and my sons but no longer can justify paying the amount I was. When you are near to the bread line you have to decide what is more important? Being able to pay rip off fuel prices, house prices and food or spend all that money going to the games? I am very happy you can afford to do so without a care in the world and are a great supporter. More so then us who can no longer go.

 

The other thing I find interesting is as you say you criticise the club, the players, the manager and so on. A quick look at your posts shows you are not a fan of Tadic, Redmond or Forster? Even impying that they should be replaced? So what is it you are supporting exactly and how is that different from what others are saying? Everyone wants the club to do well. And no matter where we are or what league we are in it will continue to be supported. However to suggest it isn't entertainment is just wrong. Football is a sport and is a spectacle thus is entertainment. The more entertaining something is the better it will do. More people will become interested and more money will be made from it. Look at attendances in the PL in comparison to the other leagues. People pay a lot of money to go watch the games. Even you I am sure wouldn't pay 3k to watch a team that was beat and playing poor every week ie Sunderland?

Thanks for your response. Probably like most real fans I get depressed and annoyed at the performance of individuals from time to time, and sometimes post in frustration. No, I'm not a fan of Redmond. I'm hoping Forster can regain his confidence.

 

So I'll have my views on what's wrong, and I'll often be wrong myself. But that's part of wanting to think about how the club can be better. What I won't do is instantly jump on a bandwagon of criticism when things are going wrong.

 

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[Jonnyboy]

If we had kept Puel we would have finished top half this season. The Puel-out brigade just can't bring themselves to admit that. Sad.

[Saint-Fred]

If we had kept Puel we would have finished top half this season. The Puel-out brigade just can't bring themselves to admit that. Sad.

 

Seeing as you can see what would have happened with such certainty can you tell me what would have happened if Cortese had stayed?

[Jonnyboy]

Seeing as you can see what would have happened with such certainty can you tell me what would have happened if Cortese had stayed?

 

You're missing point. Forget the fans. The lesson for Reed and Co is don't sack a manager who the finishes comfortably top half in the premier league. Even if the dins boo him in a couple of matches.

[danjosaint]

It wasn't comfortable now was it, all down to last day results went our way

[Saint-Fred]

You're missing point. Forget the fans. The lesson for Reed and Co is don't sack a manager who the finishes comfortably top half in the premier league. Even if the dins boo him in a couple of matches.

 

Come off it..he was shocking...we were the wrong fit..the players couldn't play his system he was asking them to play.

If he tried playing long ball at Leicester he would get the same result..asking players to play a way they can't is just asking to lose the dressing room...

I hope he does well at Leicester they are a better fit, but you cannot say with any certainty how this season would have worked out for him here.

 

He will get the sack there too..it's inevitable, they all do...how many times has BFS been sacked (the now saviour of Everton or Pardew or Hodgson or Ranieri etc etc...does that make them better or worse than the next guy? No sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't..depends on a load of factors and the timing. Look at Adkins... Fell right for him here, what's he done since?

[shurlock]

Come off it..he was shocking...we were the wrong fit..the players couldn't play his system he was asking them to play.

If he tried playing long ball at Leicester he would get the same result..asking players to play a way they can't is just asking to lose the dressing room...

I hope he does well at Leicester they are a better fit, but you cannot say with any certainty how this season would have worked out for him here.

 

He will get the sack there too..it's inevitable, they all do...how many times has BFS been sacked (the now saviour of Everton or Pardew or Hodgson or Ranieri etc etc...does that make them better or worse than the next guy? No sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't..depends on a load of factors and the timing. Look at Adkins... Fell right for him here, what's he done since?

 

Utter nonsense.

 

Leicester have been playing hoofball for the last season and a half. On paper Puel is a terrible fit for them; though they seem to have bought into what he's trying to do and seem liberated by a manager who wants to play football. By contrast, we were always better suited to his system - we have more technical players and indeed proved that 'fit' on many occasions, especially away from home.

 

A number of factors outside his control -injuries, fixture congestions, limited striking options, player unrest and ownership uncertainty- made his job more difficult. His unrepentant pragmatism may not have made for the greatest or most enjoyable football as pure entertainment. I know I went to Prague etc. But as time has gone, people are realising just how much those circumstances tied his hands, not least as MoPe has been dealt a far kinder hand than Puel ever was.

Edited 15 December, 2017 by shurlock

[LVSaint]

This is a pretty good thread, once you get past the silly opening post.

 

Finishing 8th and a cup final was decent. (There were 3 points separating 8th and 14th, but we still made 8th.)

 

The board clearly are looking to improve based on what we were being served at home for the final third of the season. In hindsight they made the wrong decision in appointing Pellegrino but not necessarily in sacking Claude.

 

No one can say for sure what situation Puel would have had us in though. He might have achieved midtable again. He might have ironed things out during the summer - strengthened how he wanted, ditched his dour tactics, won the confidence back of some of the players, etc, but no one can be certain based on his early achievements at a different club, a team who won the league two seasons ago.

 

IMO Puel wasn't showing the signs that he would be able to adjust and push us forward. But as others have pointed out, the board might do well to learn the lesson, that finishing midtable should not be punished. Time will tell on how the board react from here on.

[Saint-Fred]

Utter nonsense.

 

Leicester have been playing hoofball for the last season and a half. On paper Puel is a terrible fit for them; though they seem to have bought into what he's trying to do and seem liberated by a manager who wants to play football. By contrast, we were always better suited to his system - we have more technical players and indeed proved that 'fit' on many occasions, especially away from home.

 

A number of factors outside his control -injuries, fixture congestions, limited striking options, player unrest and ownership uncertainty- made his job more difficult -his pragmatism may not have made for the greatest, most enjoyable football. I know I went to Prague etc. But as time has gone, people are realising just how much those circumstances tied his hands, not least as MoPe has been dealt a far kinder hand than Puel was.

 

You live in a different world to me...

Puels hand wasn't that bad..he should have tried managing West Ham if he wanted difficult off field issues, or Swansea for selling your best players you can name loads of clubs with the same issues we face.

Yes it was difficult....did he produce? No he didn't whether our players suited his style or not..it wasn't happening.

 

Leicester have never played hoof ball..they may play a long ball over the top but that's not necessarily hoof ball.

Those same players also bought into Craig Shakespeares vision last season didn't they?

I hope Puel does well.( I hoped he didn't last night of course) ..especially on Saturday when I hope they hammer Palace.

 

He never seemed a bad bloke, definitely not a **** like Jose or Klopp. However if he was sooooooo good then he would currently be Liverpool or Man Utd manager but he isn't, is he? Or maybe the French national team manager? Or PSG.. You get my drift.... He is gone ( I hope he does get top four though as some on here will probably explode which would be funny! ) and there's no point worrying about him now!

[shurlock]

You live in a different world to me...

Puels hand wasn't that bad..he should have tried managing West Ham if he wanted difficult off field issues, or Swansea for selling your best players you can name loads of clubs with the same issues we face.

Yes it was difficult....did he produce? No he didn't whether our players suited his style or not..it wasn't happening.

 

Leicester have never played hoof ball..they may play a long ball over the top but that's not necessarily hoof ball.

Those same players also bought into Craig Shakespeares vision last season didn't they?

I hope Puel does well.( I hoped he didn't last night of course) ..especially on Saturday when I hope they hammer Palace.

 

He never seemed a bad bloke, definitely not a **** like Jose or Klopp. However if he was sooooooo good then he would currently be Liverpool or Man Utd manager but he isn't, is he? Or maybe the French national team manager? Or PSG.. You get my drift.... He is gone ( I hope he does get top four though as some on here will probably explode which would be funny! ) and there's no point worrying about him now!

 

Last time I checked we did better than Wham and Swansea last season -both in the league and the cups, so not sure what your point is. My point is that Puel was dealt a bad hand relative to our other recent managers.

Leicester went more and more negative and direct under Shakespeare - call it what you will, though my Leicester mates called hoofball, Puel's style is far more foreign to Leicester than it should have been for us.

Fair point about Shakespeare's early success - it might go tits up for Puel, so its a bit premature to crown him just yet.

Liverpool, Man U, PSG - nice strawman, no Saints manager, however successful, has walked or likely to walk straight into a top job.

[Saint-Fred]

Last time I checked we did better than Wham and Swansea last season -both in the league and the cups, so not sure what your point is. My point is that Puel was dealt a bad hand relative to our other recent managers.

Leicester went more and more negative and direct under Shakespeare - call it what you will, though my Leicester mates called hoofball, Puel's style is far more foreign to Leicester than it should have been for us.

Fair point about Shakespeare's early success - it might go tits up for Puel, so its a bit premature to crown him just yet.

Liverpool, Man U, PSG - nice strawman, no Saints manager, however successful, has walked or likely to walk straight into a top job.

 

Perhaps we only finished higher than West Ham and Swansea because they were a mess not because Puel was great?

 

Puel has just recorded Leicesters highest ever recorded number of passes in a game or something recently hasn't he? Sort of helps your view point...and I sort of get your point but Shakespeare lost the team because of the hoof ball he was asking them to play surely? So that emphasises my point more?

 

That Leicester team was not put together for peanuts, even the players that were bought cheap , like Mahrez who is now a 50m pound rated players, were quality prior to Puels arrival. The team still has the majority of the title winning squad.

I don't think they will continue like they are but I also don't think they will finish any lower than top 8/9. Puel is OK as a manager I never thought anything different.

 

My point about the big jobs is not about a manager of ours getting them, it's that if we were talking about a world class coach, in all likelihood he would never have been our manager anyway. ( well not at the stage of his career Puel is at..maybe a younger coach working his way up!)

[Dark Munster]

What we try to explain to the Puel out mob: "You say it was right to sack Puel because of the dour, boring matches, (many at the end of season with nothing left to play for), but ignore the fact that it was his first season in England, he was dealt a lousy hand: Mane, Pelle and VW sold and not properly replaced, injuries to key players (Austin, VVD), no goal-scorer until Gabbi came in January (and then got injured), the Fonte fiasco, Eric Black, extra midweek games because of Europe, and despite all that a fantastic cup run and brilliant final at Wembley which we deserved to win, and we finished 8th."

 

What the Puel out mob hear: "It was right to sack Puel because of the dour, boring matches, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

[Dark Munster]

With apologies to Gary Larson.

 

[Dark Munster]

If the Board pandered to "thick, entitled fans" when they sacked Puel, then God help the club. It is utter tosh. They sacked him for their own reasons, which of course may have converged with the reasons that the vast majority of fans wanted him out by the end of the season, but not because of, or at the behest of the fans.

 

Most fans feel that clubs don't listen to them enough and that we are taken for granted - now all of a sudden it is mob rule forcing the Board to sack a managerial genius?

 

There's Pony, and there's Pony and Trap.

True. And if reports are true that reason was a group of prima donna players.