Prowsey

[Faz]

Indeed. If JWP ends up being our all time record goalscorer like Lampard has at Chelsea, then I admit he would have exceeded my expectations.

 

I’m a big fan, but even I’m willing to go on record as saying he will not be our all time leading scorer.

[mrfahaji]

There is a good comparison with Lampard to be made in that young Frank had plenty of games for the Hammers at a young age and had the fanbase on his back because he was a midfielder who wasn't a standout at anything - wasn't great at tackling, passing shooting, tracking back, etc, wasn't particularly strong or fast.

 

He was however OK at pretty much all of those things, had a good football brain and a good attitude. This wasn't good enough for the gobby Hammers fans who wanted a young midfielder learning the game to be the finished article and weren't prepared to cut him much slack. In Lampard's case this was compounded by an unfair belief that Frank was only in the team because his uncle was the manager.

 

And so they hounded him out, he joined Chelsea and the rest is history but Frank hates the club now because of the way the fans treated him, which is quite something when you consider who his old man was.

 

Now JWP may carry on improving and become a very good midfielder or he may have plateaued and be destined to be an average Premier League player who is only really good at free kicks, time will tell, but I bet all those West Ham fans who wrote off the developing Frank Lampard and *****ed about how he was no good at anything and only got in the team because of his connections are feeling that they missed out on something pretty special now.

 

All fair points - I certainly haven't written him off, it was more a facetious (but true) comment in response to tajjuk's overtly pro-JWP post which Mosin would be proud of.

 

I don't think fans should get on the back of a player at all, but especially a young one who has come through the academy and seems to have some sort of affinity with the club. It might even be justification to cut him extra slack, give more opportunities and be more patient with his development. But I don't think it's reason to stick on the rose-tinted glasses and pretend he is already showing signs of being a superstar in the making.

[benjii]

Frank Lampard for West Ham:

 

Age at debut: 17

Games 177 (excluding Intertoto cup)

Goals 35 (excluding Intertoto cup)

Appearances per goal: 5.1

 

 

JWP for Saints

 

Age at debut: 16

Games 193

Goals 11

Appearances per goal: 17.5

 

 

 

The similarities are uncanny.

[larry12]

Okay We are all entitled to our opinion but with all due respect (very little) yours is utter nonsense but you will bang on regardless

 

Facile generalisation. I disagree with his FACTS and will try to pass it off as nonsense. All those negative facts are facts, factually. Dead ball wizard and..................nothing else positive whatsoever.

[Dangermouth]

Well I disagree entirely. VVDs casual play has cost him multiple times and is probably his biggest flaw, that and his lapses in concentration. He flatters to deceive IMO.

 

I'd take JWP on the ball all day every day, he reminds me Lampard at times in the way he moves the ball around, receives it etc. He just doesn't have that guys ability to read the game or be in the right position, but then Lampard didn't really start hitting his stride until he was 25-26, people thought he only got in the West Ham team cos his uncle was manager.

 

What let's him down is his physicality and his confidence, he looks like a lad without much ego and at times looks like he doesn't think he's good enough, but being shoved around positions and in and out of the team doesn't help.

 

VVD is an arrogant so and so, so he plays like that on the pitch, plus he's quick and huge, so most of the time when he mucked up, he can quickly rectify the mistake because he could go chase the man down or bully them off the ball as it's rare he's not one of the biggest on the pitch.

 

So his mistakes are less noticeable and then he'll stride around with the ball, win some header, play some hollywood ball, everyone claps and the fans forget he just mucked up. Not to mention he is a centre-back so people see any centre-back that can play a bit and think he is amazing, I've seen comments about him playing in midfield, but I am willing to bet he'd be crap at it. He's not as good on the ball as people think he is, he'd need way more time on the ball then he'd get. He's just good compared to most centre-backs (not to mention many British football fans still think a ball playing centre-back is a bit of an alien concept) and the game is a lot easier when the majority of it is in front of you and no one closes you down that much (because most teams don't play a high press).

 

I'm midfielder and I've played centre-back a few times for my team and that side of it is much easier than playing centre-mid, having everything in front of you, usually getting way more time on the ball, etc. The actual defending bit, marking, tackling etc. that bit is hard, but any person that has played a lot of games in midfield at any level, who then plays a bit at centre-back will know that the on the ball bit feels super easy to a midfielder.

 

JWP doesn't have that, he works his socks off, but he's not quick and he's not big and strong, so when he makes a mistake it's more noticeable cos he struggles to rectify it and people slate it for him. Plus in midfield he will be under a lot more pressure on the ball, against quick opposition midfielders, the league is full of fast and strong defensive mids.

 

People are just expecting a 23 year old to be playing like a 27-29 year old cos he's been around the team for so long, midfielders generally don't peak and fully master the game until that age.

 

I tend to got with the fact that the guy is picked and rated by multiple managers, picked for the England team and is highly rated by pretty much every pundit. I tend to think those people know more about it than any of us.

 

I agree with others above, I think if we went down he'd be wanted by several clubs.

 

BTW Oakley was very good, but looked good in a generally poor team, I'd also reckon the standard of league then was worse and the game was probably less quick.

 

Nowt to do with casualness. I know that about VVD and it's why he'll never play for the best. It's to do with natural talent. VVD has it. JWP doesn't. I do believe that if LR wasn't involved in keeping him he'd never had made a professional footballer.

[Downthe36]

I do believe that if LR wasn't involved in keeping him he'd never had made a professional footballer.

 

new heights being reached daily on saintsweb.

[DuncanRG]

I do believe that if LR wasn't involved in keeping him he'd never had made a professional footballer.

 

Wow

[LGTL]

I'm not JWP biggest fan, but to suggest someone with well over 100 PL games and England caps wouldn't have turned professional without Reed is bordering on insanity.

[lloydie]

I'm not JWP biggest fan, but to suggest someone with well over 100 PL games and England caps wouldn't have turned professional without Reed is bordering on insanity.

 

Agreed, that comment was literally mental. The only player I could ever attribute that sort of thing to was Antony Pullis because he was Tony Pullis son.

[Faz]

I'm not JWP biggest fan, but to suggest someone with well over 100 PL games and England caps wouldn't have turned professional without Reed is bordering on insanity.

 

It's actually over 150 EPL games, and appearances at England U17, U18, U19 and U21 (of which many were as captain) and an England Cap.

 

Just when you think you've seen every form of idiocy on this forum.................

[aintforever]

I'm not JWP biggest fan, but to suggest someone with well over 100 PL games and England caps wouldn't have turned professional without Reed is bordering on insanity.

 

The most mental thing I have read on here since JWP is going to be the next Lampard.

[tajjuk]

All fair points - I certainly haven't written him off, it was more a facetious (but true) comment in response to tajjuk's overtly pro-JWP post which Mosin would be proud of.

 

I don't think fans should get on the back of a player at all, but especially a young one who has come through the academy and seems to have some sort of affinity with the club. It might even be justification to cut him extra slack, give more opportunities and be more patient with his development. But I don't think it's reason to stick on the rose-tinted glasses and pretend he is already showing signs of being a superstar in the making.

 

I didn't say he was going to turn into Lampard at all, I said I saw similarities in their play at similar ages and particularly that Lampard was another young midfielder who was generally slated by his fans for not being able to dribble or be quick or whatever other excuse fans like to lambast JWP with.

 

The guy is clearly talented, works very hard and has something to offer, but is very far from the finished product. I'd like to see him though get a run in the team in one position. I think we'd see the best of him.

 

I don't really care if you see my post as 'overtly pro', just fed up with the armchair pundits on here who say retarded things that are completely contradicted by the fact the guy is highly rated by people far more knowledegable and experienced than any of us.

 

He could get no better from here, but even then he's shown himself to be a decent premier league player, and at 23, there is plenty of time and scope for him to become better. Especially as he clearly has the right attitude for it.

 

But of course when you express these opinions, the armchair 'know it alls' rush out to lambast you, cos they clearly know better than several managers, pretty much every pundit, all the England youth managers etc.

Edited 26 January, 2018 by tajjuk