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Football clubs and gender neutral pronouns.


hypochondriac

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Yes you can. Refer to people in the way they choose, just like you do when you use their names. I'm Duncan and I'd like it if you called me that. If you can manage to navigate the hundreds of thousands of names in the world then you can manage a pronoun, of which there are far fewer.

 

It's good manners, simple as that.

That's utterly insane. Are you seriously expecting the general public to remember a potentially limitless set of pronouns everytime they converse with someone just because they've decided they don't fancy Mr or Mrs? It's got nothing to do with politeness, it's totally unworkable.
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The science in this article mainly deals with what most people call "intersex". This is a known condition which has a physical manifestation. I don't think that's what people are talking about here though.

 

There are also those for who there is no identifiable, scientific 'reason' for why they might want to be the opposite gender, but want to be nonetheless. This is most transgender people as far as I am aware. I think most people would agree that they should be allowed to dress, behave and "be" whoever they want and called by whatever pronouns they choose. Nobody should be attacked or bullied for their choices. Whether the nhs should pay for surgery in these cases and whether this should be encouraged as 'normal' in schools is debatable though in my opinion as the science is well behind...

 

You make it sound like science is clear about this. It isn't. The surface has only been scratched and has come up with very little. It has not been proven that a certain % of males are born with a female brain - that is unproven speculation. Show me the science which proves this. Your article does not. If someone chooses to be another gender, in so far as we know, it's usually just that - a choice, with no scientific explanation for it.

Thabks. Summed up my thoughts far better than I could.
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That's utterly insane. Are you seriously expecting the general public to remember a potentially limitless set of pronouns everytime they converse with someone just because they've decided they don't fancy Mr or Mrs? It's got nothing to do with politeness, it's totally unworkable.

 

How many non-binary people do you know? I don’t know any, so it’s not really crossed my radar in personal conversation. That makes it quite easy to address if the issue comes up. You can rest easy knowing that the vast, vast majority of people will be happy with Mr and Ms.

 

I don’t pretend the science is clear on this, only that it is pointing ever stronger away from the notion that there are two immutable genders.

Edited by DuncanRG
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We need more classifications, as I have seem some horrors at St Marys who are clearly not man , woman. neutral or beast.

 

No need to speak about Kat like that.

 

She may have sold us down the river and sold us to the investor interested just to line her pockets, but to attack her personal appearance is out of order.

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If us having it annoys people into a frothy mouthed rage for some reason, then i'm all for it.

 

Yeah. Funny that Hypo was the one to start it too. I'm sure there's a career at The Daily Mail waiting for him.

 

As usual there's a fair bit of ignorance on this thread, and happy to display it as well, so no different from normal then! Others seem more informed or, more my own view, not give a to**. As it happens I've met a hermaphrodite who defined as female. I know of an Intersex person in Brighton who was quite happy being intersex, and didn't want to be pigeonholed into the binary gender model - and why should they?

 

As DuncanRG points out, it's a simple matter of politeness. I know many women, both married and unmarried, who use Ms and if you don't understand why then I can't be ar*ed to explain.

 

See you all on Sunday. :-)

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How many non-binary people do you know? I don’t know any, so it’s not really crossed my radar in personal conversation. That makes it quite easy to address if the issue comes up. You can rest easy knowing that the vast, vast majority of people will be happy with Mr and Ms.

 

I don’t pretend the science is clear on this, only that it is pointing ever stronger away from the notion that there are two immutable genders.

 

Come across a few transtrenders in my time but then I did work in a university for a while so it was inevitable. As you rightly state, the vast majority recognise male and female genders. If an individual is born male but decides they are female then out of politeness I will almost certainly refer to them as she despite them still being biologically male. If I were to meet a class of people who all want to be addressed by some different pronoun then it's likely I'll be attempting to avoid pronoun use all together but I certainly won't be indulging their delusion by using a host of different pronouns like Zim, zer and they or whatever else they fancied. Particularly because some studies actually say that this approach does more harm than good in the long term.

 

Laws in the US and Canada have shown that it certainly isn't just about simple politeness and no doubt certain people would love for laws of this kind to be introduced here in a similar fashion. Let's hope not.

Edited by hypochondriac
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Who gives a flying f**k

 

Perhaps fanboy OP can crack one off to his hysterical idol Jordan Peterson in the Lounge?

 

Doesn’t seem Saints-related.

 

Oh dear hypo, you are slipping. If I had written this you would have been all over it like a rash. Anything written by the forum bully though and you bottle it. Why is that?

 

It is not everyday that I agree with Shurlock, but in this instance he is 100% right. This has nothing to do with Southampton FC so what is it doing here?

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I couldn't give a monkeys.

 

Just refer to people by their name.

 

I'm more offended that some undeserving f*ckers insist on being called Sir or Lord because some ***t decided to give them a title.

 

You know Duckhunter isn’t a true Lord?

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I think most will understand and empathise with people who are truly intersex in terms of genes, gonad anatomy, or sex hormonal profile.

 

One suspects that the vast majority people 'identifying' as 'non-binary' or 'gender fluid' will not be intersex. They will be genotypically and phenotypically male or female. So their non-binary element is entirely supratentorial and cognitive-emotional. So, if we accept this, by extension one might be able to identify as an entirely different species.

 

I am going to declare as a giraffe.

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One suspects that the vast majority people 'identifying' as 'non-binary' or 'gender fluid' will not be intersex. They will be genotypically and phenotypically male or female. So their non-binary element is entirely supratentorial and cognitive-emotional. So, if we accept this, by extension one might be able to identify as an entirely different species.

 

So f*cking what? It doesn’t gain them any advantage over you does it? Let people be who they want to be.

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So f*cking what? It doesn’t gain them any advantage over you does it? Let people be who they want to be.
The issue comes with which genders "rules" do they come under - would a man who identifies as female be allowed to use the women's changing rooms at a swimming pool? If someone is genuinely going through the change then by all means, have all the work done and live your life as the opposite sex. But when it's just someone dressing, acting and/or speaking differently to how their gender usually is...? Grey area at best.

 

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So f*cking what? It doesn’t gain them any advantage over you does it? Let people be who they want to be.

 

Where did I complain about advantage? Where did I say I wouldn't let people be who they want? Its all in your head old chap, rather like most non-binaries! How fitting.

Edited by adrian lord
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Thanks but I've read my fair share of articles stating the opposite. This for example: https://wis-wander.weizmann.ac.il/life-sciences/researchers-identify-6500-genes-are-expressed-differently-men-and-women

 

Really not sure what your point is, nor whether you really understand it. The article you cite says there are 6000-odd genetic differences between "male" and "female". So what if some person shares most "male" but some "female"? What are they, "Insane" according to you, or what?

 

In some people things are not as clearcut as you would like.

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Don't see why anyone it doesn't affect should care. Load of whining ****s getting upset about nothing on here. I have no problem with how other people identify themselves or what they want to call themselves. Do people really get so upset and confused by different names? Get a grip and stop searching for things to be outraged about.

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Really not sure what your point is, nor whether you really understand it. The article you cite says there are 6000-odd genetic differences between "male" and "female". So what if some person shares most "male" but some "female"? What are they, "Insane" according to you, or what?

 

In some people things are not as clearcut as you would like.

 

In rare cases where there is a defect, these people would have a disorder. It's not some third gender in the same way that if a baby is born without an arm they aren't a new class of human. I think we are talking about two different things here anyway. Intersex and hermaphrodites etc deserve understanding and help. People who pretend that there's no such thing as male and female and who consequently decide they are grey gender or gender fluid or a non binary animal kin need an entirely different type of help. They do real damage to actual transsexuals with gender dysphoria who just want to transition from one gender to another.

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Why not just remove the title of Mr, Mrs, Miss or what ever is there in it's place.

No one can then be offended surely. Job done!

 

agreed. if the designation serves such little purpose that we can choose it, then there is no reason for anyone to know or care about it, least of all the football club.

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loving the intolerance on here - quite alarming how ignorant and bigoted some people are

 

doesn't bother me at all but it's clearly important those who wish to use these new pronouns

 

physical illness vs mental illness

 

physical intersex vs mental intersex

 

just because you can't see it doesn't make it any less real

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That doesn't necessarily defuse the situation on its own though. What happens when a member of staff addresses them as sir or madam?

 

Unless we revert to comrade, a snowflake is going to kick up a **** storm because of their own gender dissonance.

 

I can't imagine thinking it was worthwhile complaining if I was "misgendered".

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So will there be :

men’s football teams

Women’s football teams

Intersex football teams

 

 

Or, in this brave new world of gender differentiation denial will we abolish all gender segregation in football? Have teams with men women and intersex players.

 

 

 

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Why stop at individuals?

 

What sort of impression are clubs like MaleGender Utd and City, FemaleGenderField Utd and Wednesday, MaleGendersfield Town and SFemalegenitilathorpe (Scunny) etc setting?

 

If people are really getting upset about being 'mis addressed" when purchasing a football ticket, then maybe The Live Football Experience isn't really ideal for them. Bless.

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So will there be :

men’s football teams

Women’s football teams

Intersex football teams

 

 

Or, in this brave new world of gender differentiation denial will we abolish all gender segregation in football? Have teams with men women and intersex players.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

As long as there are no quotas you just say it's not a gender specific team. Clearly no birds or ladyboys would be good enough so it wouldn't be a problem.

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Just thinking about it, I wondered what first name an Mx would adopt ?

Peter, Dave, Mark and John tend to imply male !

Susan, Mary, Nancy and Sheila tend to imply female !

Do they have to use Sam/Samantha, Leslie/Lesley etc.. cos otherwise people will assume that they are either male or female anyway and the whole pronoun thing is out of the window !

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loving the intolerance on here - quite alarming how ignorant and bigoted some people are

 

doesn't bother me at all but it's clearly important those who wish to use these new pronouns

 

physical illness vs mental illness

 

physical intersex vs mental intersex

 

just because you can't see it doesn't make it any less real

 

It’s not real mate. Pretty sure science has proven there are only 2 genders.

 

If you believe you are neither then you probably have some form of mental illness, which is real and should have much more attention than this nonsense.

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Just thinking about it, I wondered what first name an Mx would adopt ?

Peter, Dave, Mark and John tend to imply male !

Susan, Mary, Nancy and Sheila tend to imply female !

Do they have to use Sam/Samantha, Leslie/Lesley etc.. cos otherwise people will assume that they are either male or female anyway and the whole pronoun thing is out of the window !

Somethibg like spark or leaf would work. Ambiguous enough to get people questioning it fro the outset- particularly if you dye your hair orange or something.
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It’s not real mate. Pretty sure science has proven there are only 2 genders.

 

If you believe you are neither then you probably have some form of mental illness, which is real and should have much more attention than this nonsense.

 

If you want to cite science, please read up. The articles in this thread are a good start.

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