#Pe​llegrinoMustGo Social media Hour 6-7pm Monday 20th November (Twitter/Facebook/IG)

[The9]

It appears once again I'm in the minority by not being a knee-jerking manager-sacking social media whoring ****womble. Bloke who's got a reputation for developing younger players doesn't appear to be developing anyone at the moment but apart from that all I see is a load of players who don't appear to be as bothered as they were last season and a heirarchy that hasn't worked out that only having one system makes you predictable and incredibly easy to defend against.

 

Sad times, the lack of anything remotely resembling evidence of cause and effect is one of the reasons I CBA to discuss stuff on here any more as well.

 

A little concerned that Guan's on the other team though, but I guess that depends on his sources.

Edited 20 November, 2017 by The9

[The9]

Whilst I think Pellegrino is a frightened rabbit - stubborn, clueless, tactically naive...what finished it was Burnley and taking Gabbii off...the problem is not just him.

Its the whole coaching set up and unless we are replacing them as well its moving deck chairs on the Titanic again.

Black as caretaker manager FFS!

 

While I don't agree with the first sentence, I have some sympathies with the rest of it.

[Saint_Jonny]

Sacking the manager will do nothing other than burn another £6m+ hole the clubs pockets. The squad sucks at scoring! No manager can change that! None of our players have ever been prolific throughout their career. Almost all our transfers in the last couple years have been other teams leftovers; Gabbi/Hojbjerg/Redmond/McCarthy/Lemina/Hoedt were ALL bench/rotation players at their last clubs. We've rebuilt our team with players not good enough for Norwich/Crystal Palace/Lazio/Napoli.

 

Gabbi has a TOTAL of 50 career goals and he turns 26 this week. Pelle literally scored that many in the 57 games before he joined us.

Redmond couldn't lockdown a starting place at a relegated Norwich.

Tadic's strength is crossing/assisting and since selling Pelle we have no strength/size in the box anymore so he's useless. Teams can easily sit back against us and constantly head away cross after cross against our lightweight short team, and that's exactly what they do.

 

And then I see all these posts saying Redmond/Tadic should both be dropped. One spot for Boufal but who's the 2nd winger? Shane Long playing out wide? lol... an injured Sims? nope. Are we pinning our hopes on a green McQueen? That's literally all the wingers we have. Redmond/Tadic/Boufal. And yet the club decided to buy another CM so we now have 6 (Romeu/Lemina/Davis/JWP/Hojbjerg/Clasie) none of which can play AM well. And we also bought another CB making 6 of those too (VVD/Hoedt/Yoshida/Stephens/Gardos/Bednarek). We have our English trio of goalkeepers (Forster/McCarthy/Taylor) none of which are anywhere close to the national team now.

 

The squad balance is horrible. Mediocrity all over the place. Worse still we've given all these average players 5 year deals to ward off other teams except no one wants them. All they need to do is turn up and they pocket £20m over the next 5 years. What a life.

 

The Sky TV money came in and we all saw clubs spending crazy money. We did the opposite and actually made transfer profit. To expect to not regress when other clubs strengthened and we weakened is insanity.

 

Is MoPe a top manager? I don't think so. But if you all scapegoat another manager the next one won't last the year either. We all know the club will find another leftover; a manager without a job.

Put the blame where it belongs; at the board for being cheap and at the recruiters for buying more CM's/Defenders/GK's instead of proper goalscorers. This is the toughest league in the world. We can't afford to be cheap if we want to finish top half.

 

You're making far too much sense for this forum mate don't waste your time. The mongs want a scapegoat for their frustrations no matter what.

[hypochondriac]

You're making far too much sense for this forum mate don't waste your time. The mongs want a scapegoat for their frustrations no matter what.

See and then you get simpletons like this who want to absolve the manager of any blame whatsoever. Again, it's not a black and white situation and whilst the board have to take their share of the blame, pellegrino is in no way blameless.

[Ultimatt]

Ultimatt- the board undoubtedly have some blame but so too does the manager. It's not an either or scenario.

 

Will a different manager that's undoubtedly recently been sacked elsewhere make a difference? Whoever the replacement is won't be a class above MoPe and he'll still have the same impotent attack. Will it be worth the £6m+ we have to pay out to MoPe 4 months into a 36 month contract? We need to start cutting the fat and investing in quality in January and properly plan how we'll spend the VVD money.

[Give it to Ron]

While I don't agree with the first sentence, I have some sympathies with the rest of it.

 

I have not seen any evidence to see him not be - I cannot get the Wolves game out of my head and how he just stood there and on haunches staring at turf.

He has not had it easy with some of the cockwombles but team selection....christ what does Tadic have to do to get dropped? Why not even try 3-5-2 and double the option up front? Play McQueen up front....anything but making same mistakes over and over again.

His back up team are abysmal...can see why Watson got booted out of England a good coach would get Forster going again.

[James]

Will a different manager that's undoubtedly recently been sacked elsewhere make a difference? Whoever the replacement is won't be a class above MoPe and he'll still have the same impotent attack. Will it be worth the £6m+ we have to pay out to MoPe 4 months into a 36 month contract? We need to start cutting the fat and investing in quality in January and properly plan how we'll spend the VVD money.

 

You're right of course but ultimately we need to stay in the league and we don't have the time to overhaul the squad in January. We need a manager capable of keeping us in the league which, IMO, Pell will fail to do. We need to act and to change something to give us some new momentum. Unfortunately you can't sack an entire squad of players mid season but you can sack a manager.

 

Comes down to whether or not you think Pell is getting the best out of what he has (deficiencies or not) - clearly he isn't as even Puel did a better job with more games to contend with and a weaker starting XI. Our squad may not be as good as some think but clearly its good enough to stay in the league, yet if we reproduce our results to date to the end of the season its touch and go whether we will do that with MP.

[richardc]

I felt some sympathy for Puel last year as I think he was let down by the forwards missing simple chances - However this year the team are not creating hardly anything so you could have Kane and Aguero up front for us and it would make no difference - Its down to the team system of play and team structure and that is all down to MoPo. Koeman had the same issues that the start of both his seasons but experimented with the formation until he got the right balance - this idiot is just swapping the players around in like for like positions and hoping something will change.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/11135498/west-ham-fans-warned-not-to-call-999-after-poor-performances

 

Hope we don`t have anyone this stupid ..... Oh!...

[The9]

I have not seen any evidence to see him not be - I cannot get the Wolves game out of my head and how he just stood there and on haunches staring at turf.

He has not had it easy with some of the cockwombles but team selection....christ what does Tadic have to do to get dropped? Why not even try 3-5-2 and double the option up front? Play McQueen up front....anything but making same mistakes over and over again.

His back up team are abysmal...can see why Watson got booted out of England a good coach would get Forster going again.

 

3-5-2 would invoke the wrath of Les. Koeman did it and got told off when he left. The club PR has made it very clear who's in charge...

[mrfahaji]

It appears once again I'm in the minority by not being a knee-jerking manager-sacking social media whoring ****womble. Bloke who's got a reputation for developing younger players doesn't appear to be developing anyone at the moment but apart from that all I see is a load of players who don't appear to be as bothered as they were last season and a heirarchy that hasn't worked out that only having one system makes you predictable and incredibly easy to defend against.

 

Sad times, the lack of anything remotely resembling evidence of cause and effect is one of the reasons I CBA to discuss stuff on here any more as well.

 

A little concerned that Guan's on the other team though, but I guess that depends on his sources.

 

Given you were claiming we could be pushing for the top 4 this season (and this isn't a snarky comment, as I actually agreed with some of your reasoning at the time), surely you must think our squad is decent and must be massively disappointed with this season?

[Give it to Ron]

3-5-2 would invoke the wrath of Les. Koeman did it and got told off when he left. The club PR has made it very clear who's in charge...

 

That's why we are where we are then....shambles coaching, formation, tactics, selection, policy and morale.

[scotty]

That's why we are where we are then....shambles coaching, formation, tactics, selection, policy and morale.

 

Other than that we're in fine fettle.

[The9]

Given you were claiming we could be pushing for the top 4 this season (and this isn't a snarky comment, as I actually agreed with some of your reasoning at the time), surely you must think our squad is decent and must be massively disappointed with this season?

 

Realistically that went out of the window when we didn't pick Van Dijk until mid-September (or arguably by drawing 0-0 with Swansea on the opening day), and the takeover has always been a wild card which I wasn't actually expecting to happen and doesn't seem to be much of a positive so far.

 

We're still looking like a "somehow 8th" to me again at the moment, but a going backwards midtable finish seems more likely unless there's upheaval, which could mean internal review or less impressively, another responsibility-dodging "throwing the manager under the bus" moment.

 

We've been incredibly disappointing from an entertainment AND results perspective - it's mental that these are the same players that stuck 4 on Sunderland and Watford in successive away League games only 8-9 months ago (other than Clasie who played 3 minutes and injury time at Watford).

 

Still, my home town club is doing pretty well in L2.

[The9]

That's why we are where we are then....shambles coaching, formation, tactics, selection, policy and morale.

 

I don't think it's unsaveable tbh, but it needs some rapid reworking of the first team approach first and some aligned strategic re-thinking below that.

 

It's not really a surprise that our post-Cortese approach of basically being financially competent and making sensible mid-term decisions is not unique any more, or that selling everyone any good isn't long-term sustainable. We managed alright out of it for a while but everyone else is doing that stuff now too - and of course everyone's got £100m more to mess around with which changes the dynamic.

[LGTL]

If he stays we're on a one way ticket to the Championship IMO.

 

That should be the start and end of this conversation.

[mrfahaji]

While I do question the influence of Reed, and there might be a bigger issue at play, surely a manager doesn't play the way Reed has told him to? Assuming (and yes, it's a big assumption) the players are not deliberately sabotaging things with their attitude:

 

1) He is playing how he wants to play, with no influence from above = Pellegrino is the problem.

2) He was appointed because he plays this way = Pellegrino AND Reed are the problem.

3) He is being told to play this way by Les Reed, even though he doesn't want to = Reed is the problem

 

I don't think it can be (3). Yes, Koeman was criticised after he left because of his formation changes and lack of bringing young players through, but he wasn't fired. His results were good and therefore the board were happy enough to want him to sign a new contract. Maybe they were secretly pleased to be rid of him but that doesn't mean they dictated to him. But maybe Koeman was just more prepared to stand up to what they wanted.

[DJ_TOAST]

Be nice to see some banners in the ground on Saturday but I guess just be the usual half hearted boo at the end

[shurlock]

While I do question the influence of Reed, and there might be a bigger issue at play, surely a manager doesn't play the way Reed has told him to? Assuming (and yes, it's a big assumption) the players are not deliberately sabotaging things with their attitude:

 

1) He is playing how he wants to play, with no influence from above = Pellegrino is the problem.

2) He was appointed because he plays this way = Pellegrino AND Reed are the problem.

3) He is being told to play this way by Les Reed, even though he doesn't want to = Reed is the problem

 

I don't think it can be (3). Yes, Koeman was criticised after he left because of his formation changes and lack of bringing young players through, but he wasn't fired. His results were good and therefore the board were happy enough to want him to sign a new contract. Maybe they were secretly pleased to be rid of him but that doesn't mean they dictated to him. But maybe Koeman was just more prepared to stand up to what they wanted.

 

On the surface, it appears to be (1): Reed in explaining MP's appointment stressed his commitment to fast, attacking, high-intensity football which would suggest that Reed was also labouring under an illusion which, in turn, raises questions. Of course Reed might just be bullsh*tting.

 

What is strange is that there is absolutely nothing in MP's trackrecord to suggest he wants to play football in this way. Admittedly managing a minnow in Spain requires a bit of pragmatism -you're going to get destroyed if you are too gung-ho; that said when you hold up Benitez and Van Gaal as inspirations about how the game should be played, as MP does, one can't help but conclude that MP is philosophically inclined in this way too.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Be nice to see some banners in the ground on Saturday but I guess just be the usual half hearted boo at the end

 

Or the "hang him from the itchen bridge" song

[davefizzy14]

Do any of the ITKers know whether the scheduled meeting took place today that involved MP?

[mrfahaji]

On the surface, it appears to be (1): Reed in explaining MP's appointment stressed his commitment to fast, attacking, high-intensity football which would suggest that Reed was also labouring under an illusion which, in turn, raises questions. Of course Reed might just be bullsh*tting.

 

What is strange is that there is absolutely nothing in MP's trackrecord to suggest he wants to play football in this way. Admittedly managing a minnow in Spain requires a bit of pragmatism -you're going to get destroyed if you are too gung-ho; that said when you hold up Benitez and Van Gaal as inspirations about how the game should be played, as MP does, one can't help but conclude that MP is philosophically inclined in this way too.

 

Yeah, it does seem as though MP said what Reed wanted to hear in the interview, rather than having a track record of doing what we supposedly want. I can imagine Les Reed saying to him across the desk, "you say you know Mauricio Pochettino, he did very well with his high pressing philosophy and that is something we're looking to see more of in future. Is that something you like to incorporate in your tactics?"

[Give it to Ron]

I don't think it's unsaveable tbh, but it needs some rapid reworking of the first team approach first and some aligned strategic re-thinking below that.

 

It's not really a surprise that our post-Cortese approach of basically being financially competent and making sensible mid-term decisions is not unique any more, or that selling everyone any good isn't long-term sustainable. We managed alright out of it for a while but everyone else is doing that stuff now too - and of course everyone's got £100m more to mess around with which changes the dynamic.

 

Agreed we are 2 or 3 players away from being a top 8 side with a change in approach and coaches - freshen up with new if you don't want to sack him. Can we wait until January - not really so backroom staff can be changed.

MoPe is out of his depth IMO so he needs better than Black and Watson.

[Saint Albert]

Yeah, it does seem as though MP said what Reed wanted to hear in the interview, rather than having a track record of doing what we supposedly want. I can imagine Les Reed saying to him across the desk, "you say you know Mauricio Pochettino, he did very well with his high pressing philosophy and that is something we're looking to see more of in future. Is that something you like to incorporate in your tactics?"

 

I’m not even sure how determinative interviews should be for any job. In the case of Saints, we’re getting blokes who are good at interviews rather than blokes who are good at coaching.

[East Kent Saint]

Surely this has been been coming for a couple of seasons due to Kat wanting to get out of a club she inherited rather than wanted . The tight financial management (aka austerity) meant that transfers had to be more or less self financing so it was no point getting in a top manager who wanted to buy success which is why Koeman threw his hand in (apart from the £6M) Puel was the result but the club bottled it and got a worse replacement who wouldn't ask for new players at vast expense .

Conclusion would have been better to keep Puel , now club will need a top manager AND give him a budget for big players . It is no coincidence that the top 6 could put out 2 elevens plus a reserve of loan players to call on. You need a big squad to compete in just the prem these days , injury to a key player can stop progress in a few games . If we want to stay in the prem and do well the new man will have to invest , if not we will have to float to our natural level which could be the championship.

[Suhari]

I’m not even sure how determinative interviews should be for any job. In the case of Saints, we’re getting blokes who are good at interviews rather than blokes who are good at coaching.

 

Presumably we do a full assessment centre with in-tray exercises, role plays, mock coaching sessions, debriefings, and press interviews? Plus Thomas psych tests too?

 

Guessing the Black Box gets a one-on-one with candidates too? Probably a bit like the film 'War Games' (or possibly 2001).

[simo]

Or the "hang him from the itchen bridge" song

 

"Swing Reed Swing Leslie Reed...."

[shurlock]

"Swing Reed Swing Leslie Reed...."

 

Except that it made sense and was actually pretty witty when it was sung about Rupes. This is neither.

[Ohio Saint]

I'll get Trump to re-tweet my tweet. It'll be world news in no time.

 

MP must go, BIGLY!! Crooked Hillary could do a better job! What a bellend, SAD! @SouthamptonFC should listen do me, I'm massively big IQ of 240. I know how to build a defensive wall. MAGA!

[nta786]

Presumably we do a full assessment centre with in-tray exercises, role plays, mock coaching sessions, debriefings, and press interviews? Plus Thomas psych tests too?

 

Guessing the Black Box gets a one-on-one with candidates too? Probably a bit like the film 'War Games' (or possibly 2001).

 

yeah you are right, my mate applied last year. flopped in the situational judgement test. guess the answers were not up reeds standards.

[Pamplemousse]

Time to get tweeting guys

[corky morris]

Saints just tweeted the u23's line up. Time for #PellegrinoMustGo - Ive done it!!

[Suhari]

Is it trendy yet?

[Didcot Saint]

Twitters going mad, keep tweeting peeps

[ericb]

Twitters going mad, keep tweeting peeps

 

It's really not, i've worked on a campaign that got around 500million impressions. Now that was going mad. i'd say it's actually pretty small fry to be honest.

[davefizzy14]

It's really not, i've worked on a campaign that got around 500million impressions. Now that was going mad. i'd say it's actually pretty small fry to be honest.

 

ericb was there supposedly a meeting today involving MP? Can you shed any light on this.

[doddisalegend]

why didn't someone just do this...

 

Police have issued a warning to West Ham United supporters after a fan called 999 to report the team's poor performance

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/police-have-issued-a-warning-to-west-ham-united-supporters-after-a-fan-called-999-to-report-the-teams-poor-performance/ar-BBFl1gx?li=AA9SkIr&ocid=spartandhp

[BARCELONASAINT]

Twitter is going well...I've been re-tweeted 14 times already and have re-tweeted everyone i've seen thats posted.

 

Not bad going in first 40 minutes!

 

#PellegrinoMustGo

[ericb]

ericb was there supposedly a meeting today involving MP? Can you shed any light on this.

 

I know as much as any on here about that, i'd heard there was supposed to be a meeting this morning, but that's about it, whether it happened or what the outcome is i have no idea.

[Lastman73]

Oh yes, I'll have to get a telly from Dixons that has it on.

 

I think Rumbelows still do them !

 

 

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[Give it to Ron]

I think Rumbelows still do them !

 

 

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Get a Redifusion from Radio Rentals 2/6 a week

 

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[Lastman73]

Sacking the manager will do nothing other than burn another £6m+ hole the clubs pockets. The squad sucks at scoring! No manager can change that! None of our players have ever been prolific throughout their career. Almost all our transfers in the last couple years have been other teams leftovers; Gabbi/Hojbjerg/Redmond/McCarthy/Lemina/Hoedt were ALL bench/rotation players at their last clubs. We've rebuilt our team with players not good enough for Norwich/Crystal Palace/Lazio/Napoli.

 

Gabbi has a TOTAL of 50 career goals and he turns 26 this week. Pelle literally scored that many in the 57 games before he joined us.

Redmond couldn't lockdown a starting place at a relegated Norwich.

Tadic's strength is crossing/assisting and since selling Pelle we have no strength/size in the box anymore so he's useless. Teams can easily sit back against us and constantly head away cross after cross against our lightweight short team, and that's exactly what they do.

 

And then I see all these posts saying Redmond/Tadic should both be dropped. One spot for Boufal but who's the 2nd winger? Shane Long playing out wide? lol... an injured Sims? nope. Are we pinning our hopes on a green McQueen? That's literally all the wingers we have. Redmond/Tadic/Boufal. And yet the club decided to buy another CM so we now have 6 (Romeu/Lemina/Davis/JWP/Hojbjerg/Clasie) none of which can play AM well. And we also bought another CB making 6 of those too (VVD/Hoedt/Yoshida/Stephens/Gardos/Bednarek). We have our English trio of goalkeepers (Forster/McCarthy/Taylor) none of which are anywhere close to the national team now.

 

The squad balance is horrible. Mediocrity all over the place. Worse still we've given all these average players 5 year deals to ward off other teams except no one wants them. All they need to do is turn up and they pocket £20m over the next 5 years. What a life.

 

The Sky TV money came in and we all saw clubs spending crazy money. We did the opposite and actually made transfer profit. To expect to not regress when other clubs strengthened and we weakened is insanity.

 

Is MoPe a top manager? I don't think so. But if you all scapegoat another manager the next one won't last the year either. We all know the club will find another leftover; a manager without a job.

Put the blame where it belongs; at the board for being cheap and at the recruiters for buying more CM's/Defenders/GK's instead of proper goalscorers. This is the toughest league in the world. We can't afford to be cheap if we want to finish top half.

 

Well said !

 

 

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[Pamplemousse]

Sadly, two tweets a minute probably won't make much of an impression

[wadesmith]

I can't believe 'European Medicines Agency' is trending...but our well orchestrated campaign if flopping. Says it all IMO. The bloke who suggested it can't even be arsed to pay his £5.00 registration fee.

[Suhari]

Sadly, two tweets a minute probably won't make much of an impression

 

Surely we're not as toothless in Twittersphere as we are on the pitch?

[Lastman73]

Get a Redifusion from Radio Rentals 2/6 a week

 

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Does that come with the collection box or is that extra ?

 

 

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[Micky]

So, for the non tweeters amongst us, what's actually happening? Will this be all over the interweb and get him the sack. I've just googled Twitter and there was nothing on there.

 

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[Pamplemousse]

Under Mauricio Pellegrino our win rate will drop below 4%. Analysts predict relegation so #PellegrinoMustGo

 

 

This reply to a Donald Trump tweet made me laugh

[simo]

So, for the non tweeters amongst us, what's actually happening? Will this be all over the interweb and get him the sack. I've just googled Twitter and there was nothing on there.

 

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I have had 40 people reshare my #PellegrinoMustGo since about 1830 and probably shared the same !

[OttawaSaint]

So, for the non tweeters amongst us, what's actually happening? Will this be all over the interweb and get him the sack. I've just googled Twitter and there was nothing on there.

 

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Without being a member you can go to twitter and type pelleginomustgo in the search bar and see how it's going.