Mauricio Pellegrino: In or Out?

[Doctoroncall]

Hardly. That interview was done after Poch left he then appointed Koeman and we had our best two ever seasons in the premier league.

 

From the information Reed is quoted as saying in the article, there was some departure to this Southampton Way in bringing in Koeman and we are now as far away from it as we could possibly be.

[beatlesaint]

Hardly. That interview was done after Poch left he then appointed Koeman and we had our best two ever seasons in the premier league.

 

sorry, i missed the bit with the expiry date on the comments

[Suhari]

Hardly. That interview was done after Poch left he then appointed Koeman and we had our best two ever seasons in the premier league.

 

True, and maybe it is a little unfair to drag up statements from a few years back. However those quotes and the philosophy that sits behind them now seems lightyears away from the reality of our club.

[Saint Elsewhere]

I am genuinely intrigued why 45 don't want him sacked. Is it because they think we could get worse in to replace him (Black for instance) or is it because they lay more blame higher up (Reed Kreuger etc)? (SoG need not reply to this as I know he would never change anyone anytime and if he was on the Titanic would still be shouting "don't panic - everything will work out" as the ship sunk below the waves).

 

Or they could all be doughnuts like me and accidentally tick the wrong box! Doh! I really want him to go now, but yes, Black and Watson have to go too.

[Charlie Wayman]

Or they could all be doughnuts like me and accidentally tick the wrong box! Doh! I really want him to go now, but yes, Black and Watson have to go too.

 

This is what happens when there are no independent observers present. Poll Rigging Scandal

[Globetrotter]

This is what happens when there are no independent observers present. Poll Rigging Scandal

Mugabe's available now

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Restark19]

Should go in for Bosz once he's sacked by Dortmund, did well at Ajax and would hopefully be happy to take a (big) step down to revive his career.

[Restark19]

Peter Bosz has a clear philosophy for youth development, and that fits perfectly with the mentality at Dortmund. The Dutchman showed at Ajax that he is willing to give talented youngsters the playing time they need to develop into top players.

 

During his time in the Dutch capital, he relied on players such as Davison Sanchez (20), Bertrand Traore (21), Kasper Dolberg (19), Matthijs de Ligt (17) and Hakim Ziyech (24)

 

Bosz's style of play combines a mixture of those advocated by two of the Bundesliga's most successful coaches of recent times. On the one hand, the style of football once used by Jürgen Klopp at Borussia sits well with Bosz. He enjoys quick, attacking football and the use of the famous Gegenpressing. His style also resembles that of former Bayern coach Pep Guardiola. Bosz likes his teams to keep possession using a quick-passing style. At Barcelona, Pep had a rule that a player should not be in possession of the ball for longer than three seconds. At Ajax, Bosz stated, "Barcelona had the three-second rule. We're not Barcelona, so I've introduced the two-second rule."

[Pamplemousse]

Bosz would be excellent for us. Fits the black box criteria, the only box he doesn't tick is that he's currently employed. Once he's sacked, he'll be top of the list surely.

[Saint Albert]

Should go in for Bosz once he's sacked by Dortmund, did well at Ajax and would hopefully be happy to take a (big) step down to revive his career.

 

So did de Boer.

[DT]

Mugabe's available now

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

eebagum, lad

[hasper57saint]

Bring the Strach back.He'll kick a few back ends who are not performing.He's currently available.

[berkshiresaint]

Out he can take Black, Watson, Reed & Ralph with him too. Some of those have done wonders for the club but are now steering this club in to dire straights. Bring in either the ginger Mourinho or Brendan Rodgers. Also bring back Sammy Lee to instil some passion back in to the team.

[sadoldgit]

So what happens if he goes and the new manager doesn’t improve results? We sack him too? Has the time scale to prove your worth become 13 matches? McMenemy would have been out of the door before he turned things round then, as would Alex Ferguson.

[CB Fry]

So what happens if he goes and the new manager doesn’t improve results? We sack him too? Has the time scale to prove your worth become 13 matches? McMenemy would have been out of the door before he turned things round then, as would Alex Ferguson.

Beyond parody.

[shurlock]

So what happens if he goes and the new manager doesn’t improve results? We sack him too? Has the time scale to prove your worth become 13 matches? McMenemy would have been out of the door before he turned things round then, as would Alex Ferguson.

 

Chris Smalling

[cambsaint]

Be careful of what you wish for.

I was looking at a list of available managers and there were none that inspired any confidence, except perhaps Gordon Strachan

Big Sam would be a safe pair of hands and probably prevent relegation, but he would be only a very short term fix.

In reality sacking Puel was probably a mistake, but Koeman who most of us wanted to stay hardly set the world on fire even though the youth at Everton are supposedly some of the best in the Prem.

I'm glad it's not my decision, but if it was then one would really know what's happening with the players.

[baggytrousers]

Well worth listening to this week’s Saints FC podcast where they go to Staplewood and talk to Pellegrino.

 

Gives a different perspective on what’s going on.

 

I’m still far from convinced by Pellegrino but think we’re still very early in his tenure and don’t really see the point inreplacing him right now when we’re still a month away from the transfer window.

Not sure his ideas have come to fruition yet but then again it’s difficult to clearly see where he’s heading with the team.

 

Sacking him right now would seem to be a bit knee jerk when there doesn’t seem to be a decent alternative out there at the moment.

[Wade Garrett]

So what happens if he goes and the new manager doesn’t improve results? We sack him too? Has the time scale to prove your worth become 13 matches? McMenemy would have been out of the door before he turned things round then, as would Alex Ferguson.

 

Fair question. We can take poor results, we're Saints fans. As long as we're giving it a go, and have confidence that the manager knows his onions, then no, we don't sack him.

 

Under this manager we have neither. One of Reed's few cock-ups.

[hypochondriac]

So what happens if he goes and the new manager doesn’t improve results? We sack him too? Has the time scale to prove your worth become 13 matches? McMenemy would have been out of the door before he turned things round then, as would Alex Ferguson.

Do you have to be a contrarion in every thread in a desperate attempt to feel superior? Football has changed and is nothing like it was under those two managers, there is so much at stake that teams can no longer afford to give managers a season and hope that they turn things around. You would hope that a new manager would try some new things and get some more out of the players. I believe fans have much more of a tolerance for managers that do this and who you can see is making us better even if it's a slow process. Comments from our current manager about how we need to keep doing the same things and how we are playing well show that the managers has little idea of any problems and it is for that reason that he needs to be replaced with someone who does recognise the issues and who demonstrates improved performances and a less dull and defensive mindset.

[Sheaf Saint]

Fair question. We can take poor results, we're Saints fans. As long as we're giving it a go, and have confidence that the manager knows his onions, then no, we don't sack him.

 

Under this manager we have neither. One of Reed's few cock-ups.

 

I think this sums it up nicely. Yes it has only been 13 games, and if we were truly seeing signs of a clear plan/system and effort from the players then yes, by all means give him the time he needs to prove that it will come good.

 

But quite simply, we have not improved in the slightest in that time (if anything we've gone backwards) and there has not been the slightest suggestion that MP has any kind of plan to improve performances.

 

He looks out of his depth and devoid of any ideas how to change things

He talks absolute nonsense and seems to believe that his system is working and that we've just been unlucky, when everyone else can see that's not the case

He doesn't inspire the players, many (most) of whom are playing well below the level we know they are capable of

 

I've never been one to succumb to knee-jerk reactions in the past, but I cannot see even the slightest glimmer of hope that things will improve with the current manager/coaching set up. There's no spark, there's no real effort and there's no passion from the team. That simply has to come down to the manager and his coaching staff.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That is exactly what we are seeing from this manager currently, and therefore he needs to be replaced ASAP, or else we could end up with an even worse season-long record than we did in 2004/05.

[obelisk]

Before looking at MP I really don't know why Saints aren't looking at getting rid of the relegation guru Eric Black. Nothing good has ever come from him.

[Sheaf Saint]

Before looking at MP I really don't know why Saints aren't looking at getting rid of the relegation guru Eric Black. Nothing good has ever come from him.

 

The annoying thing is, we had the opportunity to get rid of him without the need for a pay-off when that corruption scandal broke.

[charliemiller]

I think this sums it up nicely. Yes it has only been 13 games, and if we were truly seeing signs of a clear plan/system and effort from the players then yes, by all means give him the time he needs to prove that it will come good.

 

But quite simply, we have not improved in the slightest in that time (if anything we've gone backwards) and there has not been the slightest suggestion that MP has any kind of plan to improve performances.

 

He looks out of his depth and devoid of any ideas how to change things

 

 

 

This ....but did anyone else shiver when they read Cedrics comments after the liverpool game ? WHEN WE WENT 2 NIL DOWN WE ALL GAVE UP !!!!!!!

 

Sorry but the manager should rip them all a new arse for that if one of the players is saying it

[the saint in winchester]

Peter Bosz has a clear philosophy for youth development, and that fits perfectly with the mentality at Dortmund. The Dutchman showed at Ajax that he is willing to give talented youngsters the playing time they need to develop into top players.

 

During his time in the Dutch capital, he relied on players such as Davison Sanchez (20), Bertrand Traore (21), Kasper Dolberg (19), Matthijs de Ligt (17) and Hakim Ziyech (24)

 

Bosz's style of play combines a mixture of those advocated by two of the Bundesliga's most successful coaches of recent times. On the one hand, the style of football once used by Jürgen Klopp at Borussia sits well with Bosz. He enjoys quick, attacking football and the use of the famous Gegenpressing. His style also resembles that of former Bayern coach Pep Guardiola. Bosz likes his teams to keep possession using a quick-passing style. At Barcelona, Pep had a rule that a player should not be in possession of the ball for longer than three seconds. At Ajax, Bosz stated, "Barcelona had the three-second rule. We're not Barcelona, so I've introduced the two-second rule."

 

Bosz would be excellent for us. Fits the black box criteria, the only box he doesn't tick is that he's currently employed. Once he's sacked, he'll be top of the list surely.

 

He won't be sacked soon, if at all, surely. They have another game in the CL, then they either progress or drop to the UEFA thingy on Thu nights.

He DOES sound right up our strasse and a very attractive option but I can't see him being available soon. Unless Koeman can tell him Saints are the best club on earth.

[Convict Colony]

Based on my dutch colleagues and mates they rated Bosz.

 

Based on this article he fits the bill, bought Ziyech and shout out to Frank De Boer for being the dutch Pelligrino in this article.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/24/ajax-johan-cruyff-peter-bosz-europa-league

 

"Frank de Boer, Ajax won four successive Dutch titles but, so devout was his attachment to his mentor Louis van Gaal’s principles of possession and patient buildup, the team sometimes took 20 minutes to manage a shot on goal."

[sadoldgit]

Do you have to be a contrarion in every thread in a desperate attempt to feel superior? Football has changed and is nothing like it was under those two managers, there is so much at stake that teams can no longer afford to give managers a season and hope that they turn things around. You would hope that a new manager would try some new things and get some more out of the players. I believe fans have much more of a tolerance for managers that do this and who you can see is making us better even if it's a slow process. Comments from our current manager about how we need to keep doing the same things and how we are playing well show that the managers has little idea of any problems and it is for that reason that he needs to be replaced with someone who does recognise the issues and who demonstrates improved performances and a less dull and defensive mindset.

 

I see you have nicked my criticism of you. Try being original for a change. 62 of us so far don't agree that he should be sacked yet. Are we all being superior? why don't you have a dig at them too? Perhaps we are not just knee jerk reactionaries. He may or may not be the man for us, but how can you tell after 13 games? He inherited a pile of problems which he is still trying to sort out. Perhaps he will in the January window, perhaps he wont. But there is absolutely no guarantee that anyone else will do any better. Her deserves more time unless you really think that it is a good idea to sack every manager after 13 games if they don't meet with your approval.

[sadoldgit]

Yes. Why talk so generically? If a manager is doing a really poor job and giving you no indication it will improve, you move on. It doesn't take much of a positive to give them more time. A good performance or two without results, getting 1 or 2 on form, scoring a few goals. I'd give most time if there was any hope of it improving.

 

There is no point in judging this manager based on the last, or the next one based on this one. They do their own job and get judged on that. Whether we'd had 1 manager for 10 years or 5 in 5 years it's about the performance of the current manager.

 

What point is there banging on about long-term managers from a different era? What point does this make? That ALL managers should be given a long time? Because there are no bad managers? It'll all magically be fine in time? It's such drivel. Every club wants a successful long term manager, but it has to be the right man you stick by. If they've been successful before and showed they can turn it round, fine, give them more time. If they're trying to play good football, fine, give them more time.

 

If they're consistently playing dire, negative football, got most the squad losing form even more, showing no energy, passion or performance, not managing shots on target let alone goals, being near the bottom after the kindest opening fixtures we've ever had, THEN declaring themselves happy with the way things are going? Get rid of them.

 

Getting managerial decisions right is down to Reed and the board. They've many right and the last 2 wrong. That can happen, but the next one needs to be far, far better or we'll need changes at a higher level.

 

It doesn't matter what era they come from. It shows that managers can turned things round given time. You seem to also ignore that many were calling for Koeman's head when he went through a small blip. Poch hardly set the world alight in his first dozen matches for us. Of course if things don't work you need to change them. Sorry but I don't agree that 13 games gives anyone time to make a difference.

[verlaine1979]

It doesn't matter what era they come from. It shows that managers can turned things round given time. You seem to also ignore that many were calling for Koeman's head when he went through a small blip. Poch hardly set the world alight in his first dozen matches for us. Of course if things don't work you need to change them. Sorry but I don't agree that 13 games gives anyone time to make a difference.

 

Funnily enough, the reason people were calling for Koeman's head was that the team suddenly lost the ability to score and went on a terrible run of results. Fortunately, his reputation was rescued by Mane going on an incredible run in which he scored 8 or 9 and made a couple more. Koeman never had to manage us without Mane, but he did have to manage Everton without their most potent attacker, and coincidentally they suddenly couldn't buy a goal.

 

Managers can turn things around, of course, but you need a sense that they have a philosophy that they are trying to impart. I've seen nothing from Pellegrino to suggest he has any meaningful template or tactical plan in how he is setting us up - if anything, he seems determined to default to whatever previous managers have done, which is exactly what you'd expect from an overly conservative type.

 

No matter how technically limited your players are, with the right coaching they can still play with intensity and attack in numbers. That we seem unable to do this is down to the manager one way or another.

[hypochondriac]

I see you have nicked my criticism of you. Try being original for a change. 62 of us so far don't agree that he should be sacked yet. Are we all being superior? why don't you have a dig at them too? Perhaps we are not just knee jerk reactionaries. He may or may not be the man for us, but how can you tell after 13 games? He inherited a pile of problems which he is still trying to sort out. Perhaps he will in the January window, perhaps he wont. But there is absolutely no guarantee that anyone else will do any better. Her deserves more time unless you really think that it is a good idea to sack every manager after 13 games if they don't meet with your approval.

 

I haven't copied anyone you loon. The reason others haven't been accused like you is because none of them are posting in a sarcastic way and with a supercilious manner. They also aren't calling the vast majority on here reactionary or knee jerk because they aren't happy with the football that has been dished up and have little faith that things can change.

[shurlock]

So Maidstone is a warzone, Mauricio Pellegrino is the next Alex Ferguson - what next from SOG's magic hat of fûckwit reductio ad absurdum?

[kermitsaint]

It doesn't matter what era they come from. It shows that managers can turned things round given time. You seem to also ignore that many were calling for Koeman's head when he went through a small blip. Poch hardly set the world alight in his first dozen matches for us. Of course if things don't work you need to change them. Sorry but I don't agree that 13 games gives anyone time to make a difference.

With Poch you saw an immediate change in our style . It may have taken a little while to click but you could see it . Puel and Mopo have no style what so ever . No improvement or promise

 

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[Charlie Wayman]

It doesn't matter what era they come from. It shows that managers can turned things round given time. You seem to also ignore that many were calling for Koeman's head when he went through a small blip. Poch hardly set the world alight in his first dozen matches for us. Of course if things don't work you need to change them. Sorry but I don't agree that 13 games gives anyone time to make a difference.

 

 

Clearly a number of PL clubs think otherwise that 13 weeks is high time enough to show your mettle as a manager, Stoke City being the latest. In numbers thats over 1/3rd of the season already gone. How much more time should Pellegrino get then and please tell us when is too late and much too late?

[doddisalegend]

Based on my dutch colleagues and mates they rated Bosz.

 

Based on this article he fits the bill, bought Ziyech and shout out to Frank De Boer for being the dutch Pelligrino in this article.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/24/ajax-johan-cruyff-peter-bosz-europa-league

 

"Frank de Boer, Ajax won four successive Dutch titles but, so devout was his attachment to his mentor Louis van Gaal’s principles of possession and patient buildup, the team sometimes took 20 minutes to manage a shot on goal."

 

Thing is if you're winning titles people would live with that...... at a club like Palace or Saints with bad results err not so much

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I see you have nicked my criticism of you. Try being original for a change. 62 of us so far don't agree that he should be sacked yet. Are we all being superior? why don't you have a dig at them too? Perhaps we are not just knee jerk reactionaries. He may or may not be the man for us, but how can you tell after 13 games? He inherited a pile of problems which he is still trying to sort out. Perhaps he will in the January window, perhaps he wont. But there is absolutely no guarantee that anyone else will do any better. Her deserves more time unless you really think that it is a good idea to sack every manager after 13 games if they don't meet with your approval.

 

Your argument would have more weight if you had seen any of those 13 games and I don't mean from your armchair. Not saying you're not a fan or whatever it's just when you have actually witnessed some of the shambles, poor attitude etc you knee tends to jerk a little bit quicker.

[mrfahaji]

Clearly a number of PL clubs think otherwise that 13 weeks is high time enough to show your mettle as a manager, Stoke City being the latest. In numbers thats over 1/3rd of the season already gone. How much more time should Pellegrino get then and please tell us when is too late and much too late?

 

Huh? Have I missed something?

[OttawaSaint]

Put him on a pile with Wigley, Gray, Poortvliet, Burley and Branfoot.

[Turkish]

Based on my dutch colleagues and mates they rated Bosz.

 

Based on this article he fits the bill, bought Ziyech and shout out to Frank De Boer for being the dutch Pelligrino in this article.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/24/ajax-johan-cruyff-peter-bosz-europa-league

 

"Frank de Boer, Ajax won four successive Dutch titles but, so devout was his attachment to his mentor Louis van Gaal’s principles of possession and patient buildup, the team sometimes took 20 minutes to manage a shot on goal."

 

20 minutes for a shot on goal? I'd take that right now, it's taken us more than that in most games this season.

[Winnersaint]

Mugabe's available now

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

Heard he was going to replace Jack Maynard in I'm a Celebrity!

[Dark Munster]

I see you have nicked my criticism of you. Try being original for a change. 62 of us so far don't agree that he should be sacked yet. Are we all being superior? why don't you have a dig at them too? Perhaps we are not just knee jerk reactionaries. He may or may not be the man for us, but how can you tell after 13 games? He inherited a pile of problems which he is still trying to sort out. Perhaps he will in the January window, perhaps he wont. But there is absolutely no guarantee that anyone else will do any better. Her deserves more time unless you really think that it is a good idea to sack every manager after 13 games if they don't meet with your approval.

You've been around for a long time. Did you approve of the Wigley and Gray sackings, or did you think they deserved more time?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Puel and Mopo have no style what so ever . No improvement or promise

 

 

Pony. Puel had a style and the team by and large followed it. You may not have liked it, but to say he didn’t have a style of play is pure ******ios

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[saintoaks]

In, Players need to take more responsibility, pull there finger out, play for the shirt and us fans, man the f*** up and get on with there jobs, i'm fed up of hearing he's not happy or he wants to leave or we should be playing two up front blah blah blah. Get a kin grip and get on with what your paid to do. The manager needs to see a reaction Sunday some passion that has sadly been missing, a loss and i feel a decision could be made but at the moment i still think there is some mileage in the manager. (I feel better now)...I thank you

[Fitzhugh Fella]

In, Players need to take more responsibility, pull there finger out, play for the shirt and us fans, man the f*** up and get on with there jobs, i'm fed up of hearing he's not happy or he wants to leave or we should be playing two up front blah blah blah. Get a kin grip and get on with what your paid to do. The manager needs to see a reaction Sunday some passion that has sadly been missing, a loss and i feel a decision could be made but at the moment i still think there is some mileage in the manager. (I feel better now)...I thank you

 

Thanks for explaining why you voted "in".

I guess it all depends how much you think a manager can or should influence how the players perform on the pitch. I can't remember a Man U side managed by Ferguson that gave up like we did at Anfield. Sure they had some bad games but no player would have dared to not try. The manager must take responsibility for a lot of what goes on during a game, that's why he is called the manager.

[saintoaks]

Thanks for explaining why you voted "in".

I guess it all depends how much you think a manager can or should influence how the players perform on the pitch. I can't remember a Man U side managed by Ferguson that gave up like we did at Anfield. Sure they had some bad games but no player would have dared to not try. The manager must take responsibility for a lot of what goes on during a game, that's why he is called the manager.

 

Sorry but i don't get your sarcasm ? That's what this thread is for isn't it to have an opinion and to compare us with Man Utd is also very strange, and i was also there at Anfield.

[beatlesaint]

Sorry but i don't get your sarcasm ? That's what this thread is for isn't it to have an opinion and to compare us with Man Utd is also very strange, and i was also there at Anfield.

 

dont think there was any sarcasm in FF’s response to be fair.

[John D]

Thanks for explaining why you voted "in".

I guess it all depends how much you think a manager can or should influence how the players perform on the pitch. I can't remember a Man U side managed by Ferguson that gave up like we did at Anfield. Sure they had some bad games but no player would have dared to not try. The manager must take responsibility for a lot of what goes on during a game, that's why he is called the manager.

 

Lee Sharpe, say no more!

[OldNick]

Well worth listening to this week’s Saints FC podcast where they go to Staplewood and talk to Pellegrino.

 

Gives a different perspective on what’s going on.

 

I’m still far from convinced by Pellegrino but think we’re still very early in his tenure and don’t really see the point inreplacing him right now when we’re still a month away from the transfer window.

Not sure his ideas have come to fruition yet but then again it’s difficult to clearly see where he’s heading with the team.

 

Sacking him right now would seem to be a bit knee jerk when there doesn’t seem to be a decent alternative out there at the moment.

lol, sycophant radio lol

[Dangermouth]

dont think there was any sarcasm in FF’s response to be fair.

 

Ditto. Cannot see why it was construed that way. I wonder why the players haven't bought into Pellegrino if he's so good? I wonder why we can't adapt to his 'philosophy' when several players have played under different coaches, in different teams, in different leagues, etc. I wonder quite how he wants us to play other than with one eye always on defence as the interview with Romeu said and working towards being able to shoot from the 18 yard line (Monk had a specific term for the coaching philosophy beginning with an 'r' in another post). I cannot see how and why this method is meant to win games (and, we hope, entertain). I cannot see why we persist with the same thing in a game until it is apparent it won't work and we throw VVD up front. That particular tactic, I think, should be considered as a black mark against a coach/manager and does indicate a complete absence of clues. There does seem to be no evidence at all that he actually a) is any good and b) is going to make us a Champions League-chasing team in any decade this millennium or c) is going to do anything at all.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Sorry but i don't get your sarcasm ? That's what this thread is for isn't it to have an opinion and to compare us with Man Utd is also very strange, and i was also there at Anfield.

 

Apologies if you thought that, genuinely wasn’t trying to be sarcastic, that’s the trouble with on line debate. The fact you were at Anfield trumps me as I wasn’t. If you found that performance not something that the manager should have any responsibility for then fine, let’s agree to differ. I really can’t see MP having the nous to improve things but I respect you do and your opinion is perfectly valid. Let’s hope I am wrong and you are right. Cheers

[saintoaks]

dont think there was any sarcasm in FF’s response to be fair.

 

Fair comment, must have just read it the wrong way