Mauricio Pellegrino: In or Out?

[Pamplemousse]

but he is 7th...with Watford

 

They always start well and seem to drop off towards the end. I guess we'll see how he does at the end of the season.

 

If he goes to Everton I can see him taking them down.

[Batman]

They always start well and seem to drop off towards the end. I guess we'll see how he does at the end of the season.

 

If he goes to Everton I can see him taking them down.

 

be interesting to see how many points he has picked up (in how many games) in 2017...

[cf saint]

I normally agree with your posts but I have read before this view Portuguese dont rate Silva....not many of those I talk to fall into that camp.

 

I made the point at the time that I thought he would fit us and still do. But i think that option now gone. I do agree with those who say he is ambitious and will jump ship when a big club comes calling however.

[bfryer]

Ok all you Saints fans unhappy with MP what team would you like to see being fielded given the current squad

 

This is mine

 

McCarthy

 

Cedric Yoshida Hoedt Bertrand

 

Romeu Lemina Davis Sims

 

Gabbiani Austin

 

Over to You

[Micky]

He's got 2 more points than Sánchez Flores had at the same stage of the season. Sánchez Flores then got the sack despite taking them to a cup semi final. He's only one win better off than Walter Mazzarri at the same stage, and he also got the sack. Perhaps we should wait till the end of the season before deciding he's the next big thing

 

 

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Agree, let's see how it pan out after a couple of seasons eh. Ray Houghton was discussing this on the radio today, they too were unconvinced especially as he's only been in England less than a year. They seem to think that he was more 'flavour of the month' as opposed to any proven pedigree.

 

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[Professor]

I’m in the Pellegrino Out camp but this is with hindsight. He looked a good prospect who could match what Pochettino had achieved. The usual suspects who like to blame everything on Les Reed ignore the facts as they were known when the appointment was made. It’s too easy to point a finger after seeing how things have worked out. BUT the test for Reed and Ralph is whether they are big enough to acknowledge that their expectations have not been met. They need to do so because waiting until the Championship is looming could be too late.

[SKD]

Portuguese fans don't rate him at all. They think he's a bit of a fraud.

 

Given his record of one relegation in just a few months of being in the Premier League, the stats suggest that might be true...

 

 

He took over a truly dreadful Hull team, who were all but down when he arrived. He came in, got them playing and almost kept them up... had it not been for him, they’d have gone months before they did.

 

If you actually look at it he done a pretty decent job at Hull and has continued to do so at Watford, hence why Everton are willing to pay c.£10m to get him.

 

No doubt you think dear old nige is better than him as well

[saint lard]

Pellegrino out...along with the tactical genius that is Eric Black.

 

Luis Enrique in please....in a perfect world.

 

 

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[Toon Saint]

Nightmare scenario; Pellegrino sacked and Eric Black named as caretaker manager until ‘due diligence’ over every unemployed managed is complete. Scary thought but probably not as scary letting Pellegrino take charge of one more game.

 

 

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[Charlie Wayman]

Managers across Europe will by now have worked out that it is not worth coming to the premier league for any other than the top six teams, the money gap has ensured that the other 14 clubs are just cannon fodder and therefore a poison chalice. Fans expectations (mine included) have not kept pace with reality, even the best mangers in the world would struggle and lose their jobs quickly at any of the 14 minnows, so ergo nobody worth his salt will bother to reply to job adverts. Why uproot your family only to be unceremonious dumped 6 months later.

 

I'd face this reality head on and give the Brits a chance again. For my money I'd suggest Steve Bruce might be worth a shout.

[CB Fry]

I’m in the Pellegrino Out camp but this is with hindsight. He looked a good prospect who could match what Pochettino had achieved. The usual suspects who like to blame everything on Les Reed ignore the facts as they were known when the appointment was made. It’s too easy to point a finger after seeing how things have worked out. BUT the test for Reed and Ralph is whether they are big enough to acknowledge that their expectations have not been met. They need to do so because waiting until the Championship is looming could be too late.

 

He looked like a one season wonder in Spain whose one season of wonder wasn't even that good, and was as spectacularly goal-shy as the guy we'd just sacked. They are the facts as they were known, replace one low scoring manager with another low scoring manager. No revisionism, no hindsight, plenty could see it and were worried.

 

It was similar to Pochettino who also came with a fairly ordinary record but nothing in Pellegrino's career suggested he would be a success. It was hope far more than expectation that we'd found Poch mark 2.

 

Pellegrino is fu cking sh it.

Edited 19 November, 2017 by CB Fry

[Saint Albert]

if we dont want a manager who will bail when a bigger offer comes along, then we have exactly what we want right now

 

Even considering bailing 4 months into his first season as Watford manager is beyond the pale for me. I wouldn’t want that ****er anywhere near Saints.

[Toomer]

You would have thought he would have learnt some tactical knowhow off of Raffa.

[Batman]

even alawayssfc wants him gone

[DT]

Convinced we only hired Pellegrino because it sounds a bit like Pochettino. I reckon Les is puzzled why it hasn’t worked every night.

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

Managers across Europe will by now have worked out that it is not worth coming to the premier league for any other than the top six teams, the money gap has ensured that the other 14 clubs are just cannon fodder and therefore a poison chalice. Fans expectations (mine included) have not kept pace with reality, even the best mangers in the world would struggle and lose their jobs quickly at any of the 14 minnows, so ergo nobody worth his salt will bother to reply to job adverts. Why uproot your family only to be unceremonious dumped 6 months later.

 

I'd face this reality head on and give the Brits a chance again. For my money I'd suggest Steve Bruce might be worth a shout.

 

LOL its worth any manager coming to the PL..... for the money. Even if you get fired after two weeks you are quids in well worth uprooting your family for..

[SW5 SAINT]

He's got 2 more points than Sánchez Flores had at the same stage of the season. Sánchez Flores then got the sack despite taking them to a cup semi final. He's only one win better off than Walter Mazzarri at the same stage, and he also got the sack. Perhaps we should wait till the end of the season before deciding he's the next big thing

 

 

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He almost pulled off a miracle in keeping Hull up............

[St_Tel49]

When Burnley were relegated they stuck with Dyche. At the time I believed they were right to do so because Dyche seemed to have something about him that made me think that he would get them back up again. They were vindicated in their decision. The question in my mind is if we were relegated (and on current form we need to face up to the possibility) is there anything about MP that would make you feel that he could get us back up again? Speaking personally I can't see it. I was surprised by his appointment because he seemed so like what we had just sacked. I have refrained from joining the pitchfork bearers because a manager needs a fair run before judging him but at the moment I am seeing nothing.

[Saint Fan CaM]

what great managerial mind got nearly (or was it over) 20 goals in the prem from Austin?

 

You mean the one that had a fully fit Austin? Austin is finished at this level and in fact probably was when we signed him if truth be known. We did it on the cheap again thinking he would be able to fill Pelle’s boots (what a joke)! And anyway even if he was fit he would need sympathetic and capable attacking players around him. We have Redmond Tadic and Long - all of them no better than mid-table Championship level and worse than that they don’t work well together.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

He took over a truly dreadful Hull team, who were all but down when he arrived. He came in, got them playing and almost kept them up... had it not been for him, they’d have gone months before they did.

 

If you actually look at it he done a pretty decent job at Hull and has continued to do so at Watford, hence why Everton are willing to pay c.£10m to get him.

 

No doubt you think dear old nige is better than him as well

 

He’s got two points more than Quique Sánchez Flores did at the same stage of the season. And remember Walter Mazzarri, who by all accounts was a flop?, 3 more points than he had.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

and yet if Watford had a poor manager and were struggling, scoring no goals etc., half their fanbase would just be blaming players and demanding new signings.

 

 

Well they sacked Sánchez Flores, who got them to a cup semi final, and had a similar record to Silva mid November

 

 

 

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[Kingsbridge Saint]

If Pellegrino is still here on Sunday it will be Tadic and Redmond first names on the teamsheet with our Italian International Striker either upfront on his own, or on the bench. You know it.

[whelk]

If he is not gone by the next home game, we need to show our disapproval like the Spanish and wave a white hanky along with booing. Something on our part needs to be done...these muppets in charge are either blind or stupid...or worse both!

 

Nothing says it like a white hanky. On tv as well.

Me I’m all for defecating in our hands and hurling it on the pitch. Take it up a level.

[EBS1980]

If he did go, who is currently unemployed for us to replace him with?

 

History shows recently that we look for an overseas based manager with no PL experience.. thoughts?

[SKD]

He’s got two points more than Quique Sánchez Flores did at the same stage of the season. And remember Walter Mazzarri, who by all accounts was a flop?, 3 more points than he had.

 

 

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That holds 0 relevance without looking at their fixtures etc.... Also has no relevance to the job he done at Hull.

 

How will he end the season, no one knows, but from the evidence provided so far, he’s pretty good. Certainly much better than Pellegrino.

[Raging Bull]

If he did go, who is currently unemployed for us to replace him with?

 

History shows recently that we look for an overseas based manager with no PL experience.. thoughts?

 

El Biggyess Fattyess Samyano De Hoo Ball.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

even alawayssfc wants him gone

 

Alawayssfc... practice reading and spelling

 

Yes i do but am very concerned who will be his replacement, we know it will be a caretaker for a while and

it will probably be Black...

[SKD]

Alawayssfc... practice reading and spelling

 

Yes i do but am very concerned who will be his replacement, we know it will be a caretaker for a while and

it will probably be Black...

 

That’s a fair concern, to be honest.

 

If you look at how long it has taken Everton to appoint a manager (maybe that’s just down to them not making a decision), it would suggest there’s not a great deal out there at the moment.

 

Our stock most certainly would have fallen over the past 18 months

[broncoboy]

Nightmare scenario; Pellegrino sacked and Eric Black named as caretaker manager until ‘due diligence’ over every unemployed managed is complete. Scary thought but probably not as scary letting Pellegrino take charge of one more game.

 

 

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Nobody believes Pelligrino can turn it around. The board are waiting for the fans to call for his head at the next match by booing

 

him and the team off. They won't dare appoint Eric Black for more than one or two matches as a third failure will mean the buck will have to stop at board level. There is no money so they will sell VVD and buy in January

 

The Southampton way is dead you can't survive if you spend less than your competition season after season

 

 

Amazing how this club can manage to seize failure from a strong position

The new Chinese owner has no money to spend neither will Kat so it's back to the good old bad days of making do with a minimum budget compared to our competition . Championship here we come

[DT]

Fat Sam til end of season Bonus to stay up. Look in the meantime and hope we can do better than the wet blanket MP, whilst shipping out coaching team too. Will not be pretty, but sometimes you have to take a hit to move forward.

 

 

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[Batman]

big sam is not going to come just until the end of the season. didnt he turn down everton for they offered that very thing?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Nightmare scenario; Pellegrino sacked and Eric Black named as caretaker manager until ‘due diligence’ over every unemployed managed is complete. Scary thought but probably not as scary letting Pellegrino take charge of one more game.

 

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Can’t believe Les would appoint Black even in a caretaker role. If he did it would signal to me that he has lost any sense and focus that he may have had. It would also be a very red rag to supporters and would seriously make me question renewal of my ST...I can’t bear to watch the club do a “Lowe” again.

[DT]

big sam is not going to come until the end of the season. didnt he turn down everton for they offered that very thing?

 

Didn't know that. Sounds like it's about money then. I just think these spoilt players need a bit of old school to jolt them out of their brattishness and too much tippy tap

 

 

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[Saint_Jonny]

In. Who are we going to get that will turn this group of average players playing to the high expectations of our bunch of wet-***** supporters? No one. Managers aren't magicians, they have to work with the tools at their disposal, and our tools are ****.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

big sam is not going to come just until the end of the season. didnt he turn down everton for they offered that very thing?

 

Good..

[SKD]

big sam is not going to come just until the end of the season. didnt he turn down everton for they offered that very thing?

 

My understanding is that he wanted a long term contract and that Everton preferred Silva.

 

When BFS caught wind that Silva was the no1 choice, he decided to walk away.. Similar situation to what happened with Eddie Howe when we appointed Adkins.

 

As others have said, it wouldn't be the best football played under BFS (not sure it could be any worse than the past 2 seasons mind), but he would certainly keep us up and would whip the current squad into shape.

 

It's pointless considering BFS as he simply doesn't fit 'The Southampton Way'.

 

I'd love to see us go for Brendan Rodgers but I'm not sure he would come to us mid season.

[Ultimatt]

and yet if Watford had a poor manager and were struggling, scoring no goals etc., half their fanbase would just be blaming players and demanding new signings.

 

managers make a huge huge difference. tactics, approach to the game, team spirit, players' motivation, getting people in the right positions and on form.

 

with a squad like saints the right manager is the difference between challenging top 6 and getting relegated.

 

You can't seriously think this squad is capable of top 6. We only just made top 6 in a freak season where Leicester won and even West Ham finished only 1 point behind us, and that was with Mane/Pelle/Wanyama who are without doubt better than Redmond/Gabbi/Romeu. Last season the club decided to be cheapskates, weakened the team, and actually made transfer profit while other clubs invested the big Sky TV money. Look back at the start of season expectations thread and I recall a lot of people predicting 10th or worse in the league. It was obvious we'd weakened.

[Spitz]

Pulis has just been sacked from West Brom (this is not any kind of support for having him as a replacement for MP)

[mrfahaji]

You can't seriously think this squad is capable of top 6. We only just made top 6 in a freak season where Leicester won and even West Ham finished only 1 point behind us, and that was with Mane/Pelle/Wanyama who are without doubt better than Redmond/Gabbi/Romeu. Last season the club decided to be cheapskates, weakened the team, and actually made transfer profit while other clubs invested the big Sky TV money. Look back at the start of season expectations thread and I recall a lot of people predicting 10th or worse in the league. It was obvious we'd weakened.

 

If you look at how we've played this season, certainly. But if you watched our games last season in February/March then you could see the potential. As much as Wanyama is a top player, the combination of Romeu and Lemina is an excellent one and rivals anything we've had before. Pelle doesn't have to be a massive loss if you don't insist on lumping crosses into the box all the time. Mane is clearly a huge loss, but there were times that we struggled to find the right formation to get the best out of him.

 

If all our players played to their best in a formation and with a style that worked for them, I don't doubt that we would be one of the two or three clubs hanging on to the coat tails of the top 6. It's a valid question whether there is a deeper issue than simply the manager, but I don't think it's simply that the players aren't good enough.

[DT]

Pulls sacked. Wba being decisive and making our options slighter

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

You can't seriously think this squad is capable of top 6. We only just made top 6 in a freak season where Leicester won and even West Ham finished only 1 point behind us, and that was with Mane/Pelle/Wanyama who are without doubt better than Redmond/Gabbi/Romeu. Last season the club decided to be cheapskates, weakened the team, and actually made transfer profit while other clubs invested the big Sky TV money. Look back at the start of season expectations thread and I recall a lot of people predicting 10th or worse in the league. It was obvious we'd weakened.

 

 

No he is that deluded, it seems, he has been banging the same drum for months it's not the players it's the manager. The truth is it's both right now a poor manager struggling with a bang average squad.

[Depressed of Shirley]

I voted out, but I am not sure that our third manager in 12 months will get anything different from the players. We will still lack height going forward, and we will still have creative players who dont create.

 

The bigger issue is the ownership of the club. Whilst it is easy to blame Les for all the shortcomings, the prolonged takeover by someone who doesn't have any money will have severely hampered any transfer moves. It will also stop us getting a "big name" replacement as no proven coach will take over if he doesn't think he can change the playing squad, and has no idea whether the new owners want to asset strip or invest.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

I've never been one to call for a manager to be sacked and didn't think we should have sacked Puel, but I can't see this going any other way than for Pellegrino to be sacked. Puel had a weaker squad (no Lemina or Hoedt and only had Van Dijk and Gabbiadini for half a season each) yet he got us to Wembley and we still finished eighth.

 

The biggest barrier to us sacking him is the question of who we bring in to replace him. I don't want to see Fat Sam, Hoddle or Pulis taking the reins; however, there may be other potential possibilities:

 

Keegan - hadn't thought of him til I say the OP of this thread, but I don't think he would be a bad call at all - definitely would play an expansive attacking brand of football and would develop younger players.

Koeman - I would not be averse to bringing him back, though I would be worried about our development of younger players.

Monk - He has potential as a manager even though he has had some tough times recently. It might depend on who is put with him as he needs a good team around him.

Dyche - Obviously... but I don't think he would leave Burnley to join Saints.

Silva - Also, obviously, but again, I don't think he would leave them to join us!

Michael Laudrup - Has done really well in football management for the most part and his approach would fit with the Southampton Way. Admittedly he had a bad run of form that led to him getting sacked by Swansea but I think that was not all his fault and to a large degree he was a victim of his own success in previous seasons.

Chris Wilder - up and coming manager of Sheff Utd and former Saints trainee. Has had an up and up career in football management so far!

[The9]

We looked this bad towards the end of Puel's era too though.

 

1W 3D 4L, including Man City, Liverpool, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal when playing back to back midweek and weekend games. Not quite the same as only playing one midweek match all season (with mostly reserves) so far this year, we comfortably beat teams in the only period of last season when we didn't have loads of games - 11 Feb to 8 April saw us win 4, draw 1 and only lose to Man U at Wembley and Spurs away.

 

No way comparable, it looks like the (same) players have just got hugely complacent.

[The9]

Pulls sacked. Wba being decisive and making our options slighter

 

I don't think they'll be looking for the same kind of thing as us.

[Forester]

I've never been one to call for a manager to be sacked and didn't think we should have sacked Puel, but I can't see this going any other way than for Pellegrino to be sacked. Puel had a weaker squad (no Lemina or Hoedt and only had Van Dijk and Gabbiadini for half a season each) yet he got us to Wembley and we still finished eighth.

 

The biggest barrier to us sacking him is the question of who we bring in to replace him. I don't want to see Fat Sam, Hoddle or Pulis taking the reins; however, there may be other potential possibilities:

 

Keegan - hadn't thought of him til I say the OP of this thread, but I don't think he would be a bad call at all - definitely would play an expansive attacking brand of football and would develop younger players.

Koeman - I would not be averse to bringing him back, though I would be worried about our development of younger players.

Monk - He has potential as a manager even though he has had some tough times recently. It might depend on who is put with him as he needs a good team around him.

Dyche - Obviously... but I don't think he would leave Burnley to join Saints.

Silva - Also, obviously, but again, I don't think he would leave them to join us!

Michael Laudrup - Has done really well in football management for the most part and his approach would fit with the Southampton Way. Admittedly he had a bad run of form that led to him getting sacked by Swansea but I think that was not all his fault and to a large degree he was a victim of his own success in previous seasons.

Chris Wilder - up and coming manager of Sheff Utd and former Saints trainee. Has had an up and up career in football management so far!

 

A good post, albeit I think Keegan is past it and I think Dyche could be tempted. Everton seemed not to want him.

 

One other punt couldn’t be Martin O’Neil and Roy Keane. Certainly wouldn’t tolerate any thing less than 100%! My preference would be either Howe or Dyche. Surely our potential is great person than their current clubs. Or Rodgers?

[The9]

If you look at how we've played this season, certainly. But if you watched our games last season in February/March then you could see the potential. As much as Wanyama is a top player, the combination of Romeu and Lemina is an excellent one and rivals anything we've had before. Pelle doesn't have to be a massive loss if you don't insist on lumping crosses into the box all the time. Mane is clearly a huge loss, but there were times that we struggled to find the right formation to get the best out of him.

 

If all our players played to their best in a formation and with a style that worked for them, I don't doubt that we would be one of the two or three clubs hanging on to the coat tails of the top 6. It's a valid question whether there is a deeper issue than simply the manager, but I don't think it's simply that the players aren't good enough.

 

The main thing we're still missing is a player who creates chaos around the opposing box, whether that's a Mane who runs at people or a Lallana who can hold the ball up there, keeps it moving and pulls players towards him. Everyone and his dog knows if you give Redmond a yard 20 yards out he'll shoot off target and you can just ignore Tadic in the box as he won't shoot unless it's on his left foot with an open goal and he's stood on the goalline. Davis is trying his best but he's a worker not a creator, and he's going to be on a downhill slope very soon if not already, and Lemina who seems to have creativity from his international position hasn't been tried. Boufal is creative but hasn't found the consistency yet. The other thing that's not happening (and was a problem last season) is Bertrand overlapping as much - I assume we stopped it because we rarely created a chance from it, yet we persist with Cedric crossing to no-one all the time.

 

We always had a defence magnet until Mane went. Even so, these exact same players were good enough for 8th last season and a cup final, which means they're still good enough for it now.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I am genuinely intrigued why 45 don't want him sacked. Is it because they think we could get worse in to replace him (Black for instance) or is it because they lay more blame higher up (Reed Kreuger etc)? (SoG need not reply to this as I know he would never change anyone anytime and if he was on the Titanic would still be shouting "don't panic - everything will work out" as the ship sunk below the waves).

[Batman]

The main thing we're still missing is a player who creates chaos around the opposing box, whether that's a Mane who runs at people or a Lallana who can hold the ball up there, keeps it moving and pulls players towards him. Everyone and his dog knows if you give Redmond a yard 20 yards out he'll shoot off target and you can just ignore Tadic in the box as he won't shoot unless it's on his left foot with an open goal and he's stood on the goalline. Davis is trying his best but he's a worker not a creator, and he's going to be on a downhill slope very soon if not already, and Lemina who seems to have creativity from his international position hasn't been tried. Boufal is creative but hasn't found the consistency yet. The other thing that's not happening (and was a problem last season) is Bertrand overlapping as much - I assume we stopped it because we rarely created a chance from it, yet we persist with Cedric crossing to no-one all the time.

 

We always had a defence magnet until Mane went. Even so, these exact same players were good enough for 8th last season and a cup final, which means they're still good enough for it now.

 

I remember when you told us redmond was 'fine' as Mane's replacement...how is that going?

[The9]

I am genuinely intrigued why 45 don't want him sacked. Is it because they think we could get worse in to replace him (Black for instance) or is it because they lay more blame higher up (Reed Kreuger etc)? (SoG need not reply to this as I know he would never change anyone anytime and if he was on the Titanic would still be shouting "don't panic - everything will work out" as the ship sunk below the waves).

 

I think the hierarchy (mainly Reed) has got rather complacent and assumed our tactics worked so will always work - in the past 3 years the only time we've significantly switched tactics was when Koeman went 3/5 at the back in response to a slump, and he was slated by the club for that when he left. It looks like the managers since are doing as they're told which makes us predictable and easy to defend against, not assisted by a distinct lack of on-field energy which we no longer have fatigue as an excuse for. We've gone from missing loads of chances to not creating enough to begin with, and of course from conceding very few chances, to far more of them as well as it feeling like we concede from every decent attack.

 

It might be, of course, that all this complacency is down to Pellegrino, but it seems unlikely. Logical thinking won't keep him in a job though, as last summer proved.