Mauricio Pellegrino: In or Out?

[Toomer]

As much as I disliked Nicola C as a person I don't think he would have let the club slip into decline the way it has and who knows we might have still had Pochettino at the helm.

[Pamplemousse]

The person who brought in the right people before, our former head of recruitment, Paul Mitchell, the ideal replacement for Old Les, who surely must retire now or be forced to.

 

Yup, I agree with this. Les has got stale, and I’m sure Paul would relish the extra responsibility.

[LeBenali]

Got to go, but for some reason I don’t think he will - the nicey nicey PR over the past couple of weeks seemingly indicates we’re trying to paper over the cracks. Worrying times.

 

 

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[benjii]

As much as I disliked Nicola C as a person I don't think he would have let the club slip into decline the way it has and who knows we might have still had Pochettino at the helm.

 

And we might be hundreds of millions in debt with a skint owner.

[benjii]

If he is not gone by the next home game, we need to show our disapproval like the Spanish and wave a white hanky along with booing. Something on our part needs to be done...these muppets in charge are either blind or stupid...or worse both!

 

Yes!! I love a good hanky protest. Top idea.

[Badger]

As much as I disliked Nicola C as a person I don't think he would have let the club slip into decline the way it has and who knows we might have still had Pochettino at the helm.

 

It's purely conjecture and we'll never know but I'm not convinced Poch would have declined Levy's £££ even with NC here. But thats another hypothetical debate.

 

Agree with you though that NC would not have allowed the current malaise to fester as it has, and Black for one would not have been recruited.

 

The only problem with those wishing NC to return is that if he wasn't prepared to work for Kat then he is unlikely to want to work for and be answerable to Gao.

[Tommog]

Completely agree with criticism of the manager, not one redeeming feature.

But going to stick my neck on the line and say Les Reed has done enough to deserve to stay, he was at the helm for some pretty fantastic years where we approached champions league positions all whilst keeping the books balanced.

Yes we sold a load of players, but we don't have the revenue to hold on to them and for all we know it was the owners telling him his job was dependent on making an operating profit, it isnt a charity after all. He has totally ballsed up the last 2 appointments for sure, but has shown he can do well.

 

I think the biggest issue is we lost our head of recruitment to spurs a couple of seasons ago, our signings have all been pretty average/paid over the odds since then.

 

But yeah, anyway, the coaching staff all need to get the boot.

[Leslie Charteris]

How about this for a scenario:

 

Saints were ahead of the game with the "Black Box". Using advanced statistical analyses we unearthed some hidden gems who shone for us and were moved on for good money. This became the fabled "Southampton Way". As time passed, other teams caught up and there is now rather less raw material to discover.

 

The Black Box was upgraded with some nifty AI to asses the opposition and determine team selection and tactics with limited input from the "manager". Control-freak Les's dream situation. Koeman comes in and puts up with this up to a point but argues about stuff and does his own thing on occasion. This would explain the team's up and down form under him and his falling out with the board and subsequent exit.

 

Puel was appointed because he was more compliant but tweaked things enough to bring cup success and eighth place. He then asked for greater input and got sacked.

The board now needed a credible patsy and appointed Pellegrino. He is told that he is responsible for fitness and training but for everything else he must obey the machine. So no backroom changes and the only thing he has any real control over is telling the linesman when we are making our substitutions.

 

The trouble is many of the players may tick the right boxes statistically (e.g. Fraser Forster was until very recently the fourth best Premier League goalie by stats) but they are either not good enough or round pegs in square holes. So the powers that be now face a real challenge to avoid disaster. They must accept the The Black Box is nowhere near perfect and is only a tool to put at the disposal of the manager. Then they must appoint a real leader who thinks for himself can get the best out of a half-decent squad and score some goals. The question is who?

 

I am not optimistic.

[shurlock]

How about this for a scenario:

 

Saints were ahead of the game with the "Black Box". Using advanced statistical analyses we unearthed some hidden gems who shone for us and were moved on for good money. This became the fabled "Southampton Way". As time passed, other teams caught up and there is now rather less raw material to discover.

 

The Black Box was upgraded with some nifty AI to asses the opposition and determine team selection and tactics with limited input from the "manager". Control-freak Les's dream situation. Koeman comes in and puts up with this up to a point but argues about stuff and does his own thing on occasion. This would explain the team's up and down form under him and his falling out with the board and subsequent exit.

 

Puel was appointed because he was more compliant but tweaked things enough to bring cup success and eighth place. He then asked for greater input and got sacked.

The board now needed a credible patsy and appointed Pellegrino. He is told that he is responsible for fitness and training but for everything else he must obey the machine. So no backroom changes and the only thing he has any real control over is telling the linesman when we are making our substitutions.

 

The trouble is many of the players may tick the right boxes statistically (e.g. Fraser Forster was until very recently the fourth best Premier League goalie by stats) but they are either not good enough or round pegs in square holes. So the powers that be now face a real challenge to avoid disaster. They must accept the The Black Box is nowhere near perfect and is only a tool to put at the disposal of the manager. Then they must appoint a real leader who thinks for himself can get the best out of a half-decent squad and score some goals. The question is who?

 

I am not optimistic.

 

Utter bollôcks.

[alpine_saint]

How about this for a scenario:

 

Saints were ahead of the game with the "Black Box". Using advanced statistical analyses we unearthed some hidden gems who shone for us and were moved on for good money. This became the fabled "Southampton Way". As time passed, other teams caught up and there is now rather less raw material to discover.

 

The Black Box was upgraded with some nifty AI to asses the opposition and determine team selection and tactics with limited input from the "manager". Control-freak Les's dream situation. Koeman comes in and puts up with this up to a point but argues about stuff and does his own thing on occasion. This would explain the team's up and down form under him and his falling out with the board and subsequent exit.

 

Puel was appointed because he was more compliant but tweaked things enough to bring cup success and eighth place. He then asked for greater input and got sacked.

The board now needed a credible patsy and appointed Pellegrino. He is told that he is responsible for fitness and training but for everything else he must obey the machine. So no backroom changes and the only thing he has any real control over is telling the linesman when we are making our substitutions.

 

The trouble is many of the players may tick the right boxes statistically (e.g. Fraser Forster was until very recently the fourth best Premier League goalie by stats) but they are either not good enough or round pegs in square holes. So the powers that be now face a real challenge to avoid disaster. They must accept the The Black Box is nowhere near perfect and is only a tool to put at the disposal of the manager. Then they must appoint a real leader who thinks for himself can get the best out of a half-decent squad and score some goals. The question is who?

 

I am not optimistic.

 

Which is why Koeman did a miraculous job within this set-up.

 

Reed is the problem and has been since Koeman left.

[doddisalegend]

As much as I disliked Nicola C as a person I don't think he would have let the club slip into decline the way it has and who knows we might have still had Pochettino at the helm.

 

 

 

Poch would still have left, as would most of the players, because Southampton is not a final destination for anyone with ambition regardless of club PR.

 

 

 

Nik Nak only had to deal with one want away player in his time here, in Oxo, and he freely admitted to selling him because he was being difficult.

 

 

 

If people are honest did they not expect saints rise to come to end sooner or later? We went through seven seasons doing better every season. That was always going to be hard (pretty much impossible if we are honest) to sustain no matter who was in charge.

Edited 19 November, 2017 by doddisalegend

[Wade Garrett]

How about this for a scenario:

 

Saints were ahead of the game with the "Black Box". Using advanced statistical analyses we unearthed some hidden gems who shone for us and were moved on for good money. This became the fabled "Southampton Way". As time passed, other teams caught up and there is now rather less raw material to discover.

 

The Black Box was upgraded with some nifty AI to asses the opposition and determine team selection and tactics with limited input from the "manager". Control-freak Les's dream situation. Koeman comes in and puts up with this up to a point but argues about stuff and does his own thing on occasion. This would explain the team's up and down form under him and his falling out with the board and subsequent exit.

 

Puel was appointed because he was more compliant but tweaked things enough to bring cup success and eighth place. He then asked for greater input and got sacked.

The board now needed a credible patsy and appointed Pellegrino. He is told that he is responsible for fitness and training but for everything else he must obey the machine. So no backroom changes and the only thing he has any real control over is telling the linesman when we are making our substitutions.

 

The trouble is many of the players may tick the right boxes statistically (e.g. Fraser Forster was until very recently the fourth best Premier League goalie by stats) but they are either not good enough or round pegs in square holes. So the powers that be now face a real challenge to avoid disaster. They must accept the The Black Box is nowhere near perfect and is only a tool to put at the disposal of the manager. Then they must appoint a real leader who thinks for himself can get the best out of a half-decent squad and score some goals. The question is who?

 

I am not optimistic.

 

That's as far-fetched as sh*t from Shanghai.

[shurlock]

Poch would still have left as would most of the players because Southampton is not a final destination for anyone with ambition regardless of club PR.

 

Nik Nak only had to deal with one want away player in his time here, in Oxo, and he freely admitted to selling him because he was being difficult.

 

If people are honest did they not expect saints rise to come to end sooner or later? We went through seven seasons doing better every season. That was always going to be hard (pretty much impossible if we are honest) to sustain no matter who was in charge.

 

 

There’s a difference between tailing off and settling into midtable obscurity on the one hand and having one of the worst attacks in the league and looking over the shoulder at the possibility of relegation on the other.

[Badger]

Completely agree with criticism of the manager, not one redeeming feature.

But going to stick my neck on the line and say Les Reed has done enough to deserve to stay, he was at the helm for some pretty fantastic years where we approached champions league positions all whilst keeping the books balanced.

Yes we sold a load of players, but we don't have the revenue to hold on to them and for all we know it was the owners telling him his job was dependent on making an operating profit, it isnt a charity after all. He has totally ballsed up the last 2 appointments for sure, but has shown he can do well.

 

I think the biggest issue is we lost our head of recruitment to spurs a couple of seasons ago, our signings have all been pretty average/paid over the odds since then.

 

But yeah, anyway, the coaching staff all need to get the boot.

 

I'm indifferent to whether Reed stays or not, and agree many have overlooked his part in our rise. Unfortunately I think Les began to believe his own publicity, which coupled with him being a PR disaster most summers, I'd certainly like to see his role clipped back a bit with another in charge of CEO duties for the footballing side of things, and an upgrade in the recruitment role whether Paul Mitchell (who I suspect is living on a charmed and fabled reputation, although signings have certainly plummeted over the past couple of years) or another.

[Leslie Charteris]

That's as far-fetched as sh*t from Shanghai.

 

Really? If AI can be used to influence election results it would not be difficult to use AI to pick a team.

[Leslie Charteris]

Utter bollôcks.

 

Maybe but you underestimate the power of AI at your peril.

[shurlock]

Really? If AI can be used to influence election results it would not be difficult to use AI to pick a team.

 

[Tommog]

Really? If AI can be used to influence election results it would not be difficult to use AI to pick a team.

 

I think AI would have looked at our performances so far this season and "self taught" itself that our tactics aren't working and we need a change. Very much stubborn humans at the helm

[Wade Garrett]

Really? If AI can be used to influence election results it would not be difficult to use AI to pick a team.

 

Les, stop watching Dr Who.

[stknowle]

 

 

 

If people are honest did they not expect saints rise to come to end sooner or later? We went through seven seasons doing better every season. That was always going to be hard (pretty much impossible if we are honest) to sustain no matter who was in charge.

 

Expected the rise to come to an end - that bit was obvious. However, did not expect such a steep decline and nor do I think it should be happening given the quality of our squad.

[Leslie Charteris]

Les, stop watching Dr Who.

 

Beware the Dark Forces...

[OttawaSaint]

Wait a second. Black box...Eric Black. OMG it’s like one of those m night shamalamdingdong movies. The robots have taken over!!!

[Leslie Charteris]

Wait a second. Black box...Eric Black. OMG it’s like one of those m night shamalamdingdong movies. The robots have taken over!!!

 

Don't want to say I told you so, but...

[Batman]

where are the usual ITK'ers...not a squeak form them over this (or any issue)

 

if they cant spill any beans, can they at least confirm the club are aware at the complete dismay about MP as our manager????

[Saint Fan CaM]

It's NOT the time to dismiss a manager while he has to work with bang average players like Long, Austin, Redmond and Tadic and Forster. Having said that, his swapping around of the CB's is strange. I also think VVD is a bad apple and Eric Black needs to be shipped out...he's like some kind of bad stink that won't go away.

[Pilchards]

where are the usual ITK'ers...not a squeak form them over this (or any issue)

 

if they cant spill any beans, can they at least confirm the club are aware at the complete dismay about MP as our manager????

 

I get the vibe we will wait until January and back our current manager with some better players coming in.

Problem is we could be rock bottom then and nobody will want to join us.

[skintsaint]

He has lost the fans going by this page. Seems a nice enough guy but cant see him improving anytime soon. Thing is not much out there who inspires me either...

[OttawaSaint]

He has lost the fans going by this page. Seems a nice enough guy but cant see him improving anytime soon. Thing is not much out there who inspires me either...

 

Saints Facebook page is full of anger and MP out posts. The club have to have noticed just how disillusioned the fans are.

 

Hopefully they act swiftly and decisively, but our track record with acting swiftly is not good. I think the whole “Southampton way” and “we march on” stuff has blown up in our faces and makes the club look arrogant. The board will have a hard time backtracking from this so it might be heads in the sand time while praying something changes on the field.

[Wurzel]

Normally I'd be still up for giving him a chance to turn things around. But I've seen absolutely nothing from him to suggest that he will do anything other than persevere with the same current tactics which a) clearly aren't working and b) is clearly not the best style and formation suited to the personnel at his disposal.

 

Disappointing as I thought he would turn out to be a really good appointment for us, but it's a GO from me

[petts]

When the clown finally gets the sack I hope we have a manager who comes in straight away, preferably the same day. We don't want to commit football suicide and have Black as a temporary manager even for a day. He needs to go to.

Maybe this is all part of blacks masterplan [emoji23]

 

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[petts]

Personally i think he will still be around for the home game against Everton and then sacked mid week after that game when we lose to them.

It has been the most horrible last 11 months of football with the most inept managerial appointments.

 

It really does beggar belief that this guy is still in charge when it is so clear the players are not playing for him.

 

For gods sake put us all out of our misery and get rid NOW!!

Yep, it's ridiculous how much our style has changed and how boring it is. I think player recruitment is just as much to blame as the managers.

 

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[qwertyell]

Wait a second. Black box...Eric Black. OMG it’s like one of those m night shamalamdingdong movies. The robots have taken over!!!

I can certainly believe some of our tactics have been pulled out of Eric Black's box.

 

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[Halo Stickman]

For a manager to be performing this badly with what I still think is a pretty decent squad means he has to go. In truth, I haven't really seen anything from day one that has persuaded me he was a good choice – definite black mark for Les Reed or whoever it was that made the decision to employ him.

[Oldeuboi]

I think the "boring" syle of play that Puel had us playing was massively exaggerated considering we were the single most wasteful team in the league last season.

 

This season we just don't create anything which is super worrying.

 

Redmond's our most creative player while being immensely frustrating to watch at times, that's saying something considering how hated he is. We seem to have absolutely no decent transition from defence to attack without Lemina. There's also an air of complacency coming through with everyone seeming to just give the ball away easily at different points of the game.

 

Too many hopeful looping crosses from everyone, not enough hold up play from whichever forward is playing and now a fear of taking players on due to a lack of confidence from players who are usually so much better.

 

It's boring this season. Last season was decent possession football with tons of chances but lacking a finish. This season is just void of absolutely anything.

[James]

I think the "boring" syle of play that Puel had us playing was massively exaggerated considering we were the single most wasteful team in the league last season.

 

This season we just don't create anything which is super worrying.

 

Redmond's our most creative player while being immensely frustrating to watch at times, that's saying something considering how hated he is. We seem to have absolutely no decent transition from defence to attack without Lemina. There's also an air of complacency coming through with everyone seeming to just give the ball away easily at different points of the game.

 

Too many hopeful looping crosses from everyone, not enough hold up play from whichever forward is playing and now a fear of taking players on due to a lack of confidence from players who are usually so much better.

 

It's boring this season. Last season was decent possession football with tons of chances but lacking a finish. This season is just void of absolutely anything.

 

At home it really wasn't.

[Batman]

so glad we thought Marco silva was beneath us

 

 

sorry, I meant the forum morons who thought he was beneath us

Edited 19 November, 2017 by Batman

[DT]

so glad we thought Marco silva was beneath us

 

 

sorry, I meant the forum morons who thought he was beneath us

 

Quite. Has Watford playing good stuff. Mind you, has great keeper in Gomez. None of the saves he and Hart have made would Forster have got to. Good keeper provides bedrock for whole team. Watford also playing with purpose. All want to win. None of our lot do.

 

 

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[Batman]

A new manager isn't going to improve Tadic, Redmond, Austin, long and sometimes Davis. We have too many players who can't shoot or create. The longer these players stay the more our chance of relegation increases. The problem is obvious.

 

that of course is wrong. are you saying they would be no worse if mad dog or big ron were in charge right now?

bollix

 

what great managerial mind got nearly (or was it over) 20 goals in the prem from Austin?

[Saint Albert]

so glad we thought Marco silva was beneath us

 

 

sorry, I meant the forum morons who thought he was beneath us

 

He was a better option as a manager than Pellegrino but also I think that he’s the type of “ambitious” character to bail on his team mid season for money and a bigger “project”. We’ll see what happens with Everton.

 

Ultimately I’m not that fussed if Les passed him over in the summer., for that reason.

[Batman]

He was a better option as a manager than Pellegrino but also I think that he’s the type of “ambitious” character to bail on his team mid season for money and a bigger “project”. We’ll see what happens with Everton.

 

Ultimately I’m not that fussed if Les passed him over in the summer., for that reason.

if we dont want a manager who will bail when a bigger offer comes along, then we have exactly what we want right now

[the saint in winchester]

to think, we never wanted to give Koeman a pay rise!!!! now it will cost more when we get rid of MP and get another new manager

 

les reed is an utter arse-clown

 

To be fair, we offered Koeman a pay rise - £4.5M PA was the offer, but we didn't match Everton's offer, true.

[simo]

so glad we thought Marco silva was beneath us

 

 

sorry, I meant the forum morons who thought he was beneath us

 

I thought we were pro Silva on here ?

[Heisenberg]

so glad we thought Marco silva was beneath us

 

 

sorry, I meant the forum morons who thought he was beneath us

 

Tbf i think 99% wanted Silva. Was just the usual SWF dunces & Les Reed that didn't.

 

Bless em

[Toon Saint]

Silva’s success at Watford makes a mockery of our supposed ‘due diligence’ process. Watford are playing with more or less the style of football that Les Reed described us returning to when he appointed Pellegrino. Silva was available, had PL experience and more or less offered himself to us by various press reports stating we were his preferred option. Right under our nose. Nice one Les.

 

 

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[Micky]

I thought we were pro Silva on here ?

Ssshhhhhhh he's having a good old vent. As normal, none of it needs to be true, just needs to fit his agenda. Quieten down now.

 

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[Batman]

Ssshhhhhhh he's having a good old vent. As normal, none of it needs to be true, just needs to fit his agenda. Quieten down now.

 

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you are joking. a few on here were against Silva....

here is are a few quotes from a thread on Silva as a possible replacement for Puel...all from different posters..

We can do better

 

I'm convinced that we should dispense of Puel's services, but I'm not convinced that Silva is the right man for the job.

 

I remember you saying mighty Marco is the man, perhaps you were drinking too

I'm also not convinced by Silva.

 

Ask any Portuguese people and they will give you their opinion on Marco Silva.

 

I would compare it to our feelings about Harry Redknapp.

Silva is not the answer.

 

the clamour from some to get him in is quite odd. Okay he did a reasonable job at Hull keeping a dreadful squad in with a fighting chance of staying up, but ultimately he didn't

 

I'm very much in the camp that I think Puel should go, I'm not convinced Silva is the best man to replace him tho.

 

 

obviously, just making it up!!

Edited 19 November, 2017 by Batman

[SuperSAINT]

Silva’s success at Watford makes a mockery of our supposed ‘due diligence’ process. Watford are playing with more or less the style of football that Les Reed described us returning to when he appointed Pellegrino. Silva was available, had PL experience and more or less offered himself to us by various press reports stating we were his preferred option. Right under our nose. Nice one Les.

 

Imagine if we landed him & Everton eventually nicked him off us as well

 

You are right about our due diligence though. I'm not sure what was on MP's CV that indicated much of what we were after.

[Pamplemousse]

Tbf i think 99% wanted Silva. Was just the usual SWF dunces & Les Reed that didn't.

 

Bless em

 

Portuguese fans don't rate him at all. They think he's a bit of a fraud.

 

Given his record of one relegation in just a few months of being in the Premier League, the stats suggest that might be true...

[Lord Duckhunter]

Portuguese fans don't rate him at all. They think he's a bit of a fraud.

 

Given his record of one relegation in just a few months of being in the Premier League, the stats suggest that might be true...

 

He's got 2 more points than Sánchez Flores had at the same stage of the season. Sánchez Flores then got the sack despite taking them to a cup semi final. He's only one win better off than Walter Mazzarri at the same stage, and he also got the sack. Perhaps we should wait till the end of the season before deciding he's the next big thing

 

 

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[Batman]

He's got 2 more points than Sánchez Flores had at the same stage of the season. Sánchez Flores then got the sack despite taking them to a cup semi final. He's only one win better off than Walter Mazzarri at the same stage, and he also got the sack. Perhaps we should wait till the end of the season before deciding he's the next big thing

 

 

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but he is 7th...with Watford