Mauricio Pellegrino: In or Out?

[Dellman]

If we go down we have even less chance of getting rid of the overpaid dross who will not want to take a pay cut. We will be stymied. I am becoming more and more sure the players are the problem, not the manager. Puel's failure here and success everywhere else is a sign and now we have the same trouble again.

[Maggie May]

If we go down we have even less chance of getting rid of the overpaid dross who will not want to take a pay cut. We will be stymied. I am becoming more and more sure the players are the problem, not the manager. Puel's failure here and success everywhere else is a sign and now we have the same trouble again.

 

I've said it before but I believe there is no togetherness in the team (in my opinion, of course).

 

The same camaraderie exude from teams since Liebherr's takeover from Pardew through to Koeman seems non-existent and stems from the appointment of Puel.

 

You need a cohesive squad to succeed however talented it may be.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Perhaps we should close this thread as he is clearly going nowhere for now

[Rebel]

Last season I thought Puel was the wrong manager with the wrong squad.

 

And in the Summer I thought he had to go as he seemed to be getting a lot less than the sum of its parts out of the squad. And for me the nail in the coffin was the last five games when we had nothing to lose and we still played negative football and failed to score. I thought the 8th place finish and the League Cup final were down to a little bit of luck more than anything else and papered over the cracks - and that the Europa League and FA Cup failures were closer to the reality of where we actually were.

 

But in view of where Leicester are under Puel and the way they are playing - and tore us apart this week - and I think it was probably more of a case of the squad and the players being the problem - and Puel was just doing the best he could with the poor squad he had.

 

The Leicester squad this season is definitely better than the squad we had last season and the squad we have this season is probably no better. So its hard not think Puel could have done more with a better squad.

 

So it seems the real issues are with the strength of our squad and the players themselves. More than a couple of them seem to lack fight and effort - but we have also been lacking strength in key areas of the squad for a while - w need another striker or two, right back, attacking midfielder and another winger.

 

And the blame for that has to lie with Les Reed and the board.

 

In retrospect it looks like we should have stuck with Puel and changed the squad around - sold players like Tadic, Bertrand and Van Dijk and brought a load of new ones in to replace them and added the strength and depth we needed.

 

So for now I think we need to stick with Pellegrino and back him in the January transfer window. Clear a few players of the players that don't want to be here or aren't good enough out and replace them - and that includes selling Van Dijk to the highest bidder and spending the money on strengthening the squad.

 

Changing the manager hasn't worked so we need to see if changing the squad does.

[Saint-Fred]

We face a serious battle to stay up and this struggle is underestimated in my opinion. Consider the following:

 

- ignore the Udders match coming up as that is actually the first time we have played the same team twice. So the true halfway point is after the Chelsea and Spurs games. Then we have played all 19 teams once, and I don’t see a point in either game. So we will be stuck on 18 points, double it and you get to 36 which is relegation in all likelihood.

- because of the Wet Spam switch we face extra away game in second half of season. And our home matches are tougher with Chelsea, Spurs, City and Liverpool all to come down here all chasing title or Champions League football

- we have had a virtually injury free squad, stronger than under Puel, and because of Wolves Reserves fiasco have had no European or League Cup distractions. Again much easier than under Puel. We must assume that injuries and suspension will increase after Xmas

- there isn’t any evidence that we are any better now than we were in Aug. He has week in, week out, uninterrupted coaching time. Where is the progress?

 

I would never have sacked Puel, but this guy feels a downgrade and I don’t see a reason to sit and gamble given all of the above that he will suddenly come good. I think we have a good squad, a tall striker apart. He isn’t getting anything like maximum from them.

 

How come we can only double our points but 7 rivals below us will get more than double their current total to get above us in the second half of the season?

Very one dimensional analysis IMO.

[DT]

He's still here then

[under the west stand]

Last season I thought Puel was the wrong manager with the wrong squad.

 

And in the Summer I thought he had to go as he seemed to be getting a lot less than the sum of its parts out of the squad. And for me the nail in the coffin was the last five games when we had nothing to lose and we still played negative football and failed to score. I thought the 8th place finish and the League Cup final were down to a little bit of luck more than anything else and papered over the cracks - and that the Europa League and FA Cup failures were closer to the reality of where we actually were.

 

But in view of where Leicester are under Puel and the way they are playing - and tore us apart this week - and I think it was probably more of a case of the squad and the players being the problem - and Puel was just doing the best he could with the poor squad he had.

 

The Leicester squad this season is definitely better than the squad we had last season and the squad we have this season is probably no better. So its hard not think Puel could have done more with a better squad.

 

So it seems the real issues are with the strength of our squad and the players themselves. More than a couple of them seem to lack fight and effort - but we have also been lacking strength in key areas of the squad for a while - w need another striker or two, right back, attacking midfielder and another winger.

 

And the blame for that has to lie with Les Reed and the board.

 

In retrospect it looks like we should have stuck with Puel and changed the squad around - sold players like Tadic, Bertrand and Van Dijk and brought a load of new ones in to replace them and added the strength and depth we needed.

 

So for now I think we need to stick with Pellegrino and back him in the January transfer window. Clear a few players of the players that don't want to be here or aren't good enough out and replace them - and that includes selling Van Dijk to the highest bidder and spending the money on strengthening the squad.

 

Changing the manager hasn't worked so we need to see if changing the squad does.

 

This is the most level headed analysis of our current situation that I have seen. A lot of media analysis concurs.

 

The squad is the problem - what or who is the root cause of this?

[Charlie Wayman]

Clearly needs to go sharpish, Get somebody in now with actual experience and who could give the egos a kick up the ass. Give him the funds to clear-out the deadwood and to invest in some fresh talent Jan.

 

What aspects of play has Pellegrino improved? I can't see any if anything I think we have gone backwards. Why does he keep rotating the team? you look at the Arsenal game and you had the foundations of a team that looked like they were starting to click and develop a bit of confidence...... Dress it up how you want admit the apppintment was a balls up! and get shot and get rid before we end up in the championship.

 

On the other side of the coin if we stick with and go down would it be a good opportunity to clear out the overpaid dross and bed in the youth...... I don't think the manager is the man to us forward though. I have seen enough the Everton game like many have said was just papering over the cracks. ....

 

You should not rule out the possibly that if we go down we may never get back up again, like Leeds, like Pompey, like Sheffield U, like Sheff W, like Blackburn all great clubs of the past from big cities that graced the highest division once upon a time.

[Saint Billy]

If so it will probably be the first time in history when a club has said it is in a relegation battle when they are 11th in the table.

 

Just forget league position etc, use your eyes man, use your eyes.

[Dalek2003]

We face a serious battle to stay up and this struggle is underestimated in my opinion. Consider the following:

 

- ignore the Udders match coming up as that is actually the first time we have played the same team twice. So the true halfway point is after the Chelsea and Spurs games. Then we have played all 19 teams once, and I don’t see a point in either game. So we will be stuck on 18 points, double it and you get to 36 which is relegation in all likelihood.

- because of the Wet Spam switch we face extra away game in second half of season. And our home matches are tougher with Chelsea, Spurs, City and Liverpool all to come down here all chasing title or Champions League football

- we have had a virtually injury free squad, stronger than under Puel, and because of Wolves Reserves fiasco have had no European or League Cup distractions. Again much easier than under Puel. We must assume that injuries and suspension will increase after Xmas

- there isn’t any evidence that we are any better now than we were in Aug. He has week in, week out, uninterrupted coaching time. Where is the progress?

 

I would never have sacked Puel, but this guy feels a downgrade and I don’t see a reason to sit and gamble given all of the above that he will suddenly come good. I think we have a good squad, a tall striker apart. He isn’t getting anything like maximum from them.

 

I couldn't have put it better. Thing is this hasn't happened overnight. Complacency has reigned supreme for the last two years, board and some fans.

[aintforever]

How come we can only double our points but 7 rivals below us will get more than double their current total to get above us in the second half of the season?

Very one dimensional analysis IMO.

 

Not really. The matches where you are most likely to pick up 3 points is the lower sides at home, a point away from home anywhere is generally a good result in the Prem for a lower side like us. Messing up too many home games against the lesser sides leaves you either having to beat the top sides at home or having to win away.

 

Once we play Spurs we will have a better idea of where we are but even then I don’t think it will be a true reflection of our position.

[Wade Garrett]

Last season I thought Puel was the wrong manager with the wrong squad.

 

And in the Summer I thought he had to go as he seemed to be getting a lot less than the sum of its parts out of the squad. And for me the nail in the coffin was the last five games when we had nothing to lose and we still played negative football and failed to score. I thought the 8th place finish and the League Cup final were down to a little bit of luck more than anything else and papered over the cracks - and that the Europa League and FA Cup failures were closer to the reality of where we actually were.

 

But in view of where Leicester are under Puel and the way they are playing - and tore us apart this week - and I think it was probably more of a case of the squad and the players being the problem - and Puel was just doing the best he could with the poor squad he had.

 

The Leicester squad this season is definitely better than the squad we had last season and the squad we have this season is probably no better. So its hard not think Puel could have done more with a better squad.

 

So it seems the real issues are with the strength of our squad and the players themselves. More than a couple of them seem to lack fight and effort - but we have also been lacking strength in key areas of the squad for a while - w need another striker or two, right back, attacking midfielder and another winger.

 

And the blame for that has to lie with Les Reed and the board.

 

In retrospect it looks like we should have stuck with Puel and changed the squad around - sold players like Tadic, Bertrand and Van Dijk and brought a load of new ones in to replace them and added the strength and depth we needed.

 

So for now I think we need to stick with Pellegrino and back him in the January transfer window. Clear a few players of the players that don't want to be here or aren't good enough out and replace them - and that includes selling Van Dijk to the highest bidder and spending the money on strengthening the squad.

 

Changing the manager hasn't worked so we need to see if changing the squad does.

 

Bu that reasoning, Leicester would still have Ranieri/Shakespeare as their manager and a very different squad.

 

Our squad is good enough. The relationship between players and management seems to be a problem though. A lost dressing room never ends well.

[Forester]

How come we can only double our points but 7 rivals below us will get more than double their current total to get above us in the second half of the season?

Very one dimensional analysis IMO.

I am not too sure you gave that much thought, did you? The rest of the post if you read it again seeks to help you answer the question you pose.

[The9]

Let’s get this totally straight.... It doesnt take a tactical genius to put 10 men behind the ball!!!

 

Surprised more teams don't do it if it's that easy.

[Saint-Fred]

I am not too sure you gave that much thought, did you? The rest of the post if you read it again seeks to help you answer the question you pose.

 

You talk about more difficult fixtures so whats your logic that we double our points? None of it makes much sense TBH

[Minsk]

I haven't had time to check everywhere to see if this has been mentioned at all, but I just compared Wednesday's starting 11s to those of last season;s home match against Leicester (in which Puel led us to a 3-0 victory):

 

For us there were 4 changes:

 

Lemina (who many believe to be our best performer so far this season) vice PEH = upgrade

Davis vice Ward-Prowse (who many on here vilify) = upgrade

Boufal vice Redmond (who many on here vilify) = upgrade

Austin (our top scorer) vice JRod (who has hardly set the world alight since his injury) = upragde

 

On paper, a better team this time around.

 

For Leicester, 4 changes:

 

King vice Drinkwater (now at Chelsea) = downgrade

Chilwell vice Mendy = about the same or slight downgrade

Maguire vice Huth = upgrade

Mahrez vice Gray = upgrade

 

On paper, slightly better than last season.

 

So, was the transformation from 3-0 winners to 4-1 losers down to the players or the managers???

[SaveloyMush]

Last season I thought Puel was the wrong manager with the wrong squad.

 

And in the Summer I thought he had to go as he seemed to be getting a lot less than the sum of its parts out of the squad. And for me the nail in the coffin was the last five games when we had nothing to lose and we still played negative football and failed to score. I thought the 8th place finish and the League Cup final were down to a little bit of luck more than anything else and papered over the cracks - and that the Europa League and FA Cup failures were closer to the reality of where we actually were.

 

But in view of where Leicester are under Puel and the way they are playing - and tore us apart this week - and I think it was probably more of a case of the squad and the players being the problem - and Puel was just doing the best he could with the poor squad he had.

 

The Leicester squad this season is definitely better than the squad we had last season and the squad we have this season is probably no better. So its hard not think Puel could have done more with a better squad.

 

So it seems the real issues are with the strength of our squad and the players themselves. More than a couple of them seem to lack fight and effort - but we have also been lacking strength in key areas of the squad for a while - w need another striker or two, right back, attacking midfielder and another winger.

 

And the blame for that has to lie with Les Reed and the board.

 

In retrospect it looks like we should have stuck with Puel and changed the squad around - sold players like Tadic, Bertrand and Van Dijk and brought a load of new ones in to replace them and added the strength and depth we needed.

 

So for now I think we need to stick with Pellegrino and back him in the January transfer window. Clear a few players of the players that don't want to be here or aren't good enough out and replace them - and that includes selling Van Dijk to the highest bidder and spending the money on strengthening the squad.

 

Changing the manager hasn't worked so we need to see if changing the squad does.

 

The fans were told that Puel was given the chance to stay on this season, if he agreed to change the style of play, but he refused to do so.

 

As masters of spin, the Southampton board may have been truthful in stating the above; I have a suspicion, however, that they omitted Puel's coda "with the squad of players at my disposal."

 

Southampton had and have a, largely, excellent back 8 or 9 but a mediocre front 2 or 3, hence the lack of goals in the last season and a half. Goals cost more money than the board is prepared to sanction.

 

As time passes, Puel emerges with ever greater credit for effectively falling on his sword.

 

Pellegrino is not the problem.

[Barry the Badger]

I haven't had time to check everywhere to see if this has been mentioned at all, but I just compared Wednesday's starting 11s to those of last season;s home match against Leicester (in which Puel led us to a 3-0 victory):

 

For us there were 4 changes:

 

Lemina (who many believe to be our best performer so far this season) vice PEH = upgrade

Davis vice Ward-Prowse (who many on here vilify) = upgrade

Boufal vice Redmond (who many on here vilify) = upgrade

Austin (our top scorer) vice JRod (who has hardly set the world alight since his injury) = upragde

 

On paper, a better team this time around.

 

For Leicester, 4 changes:

 

King vice Drinkwater (now at Chelsea) = downgrade

Chilwell vice Mendy = about the same or slight downgrade

Maguire vice Huth = upgrade

Mahrez vice Gray = upgrade

 

On paper, slightly better than last season.

 

So, was the transformation from 3-0 winners to 4-1 losers down to the players or the managers???

 

That's not how football works. Way too simplistic. This isn't football manager.

[philelec]

This is the most level headed analysis of our current situation that I have seen. A lot of media analysis concurs.

 

The squad is the problem - what or who is the root cause of this?

[Pamplemousse]

The fans were told that Puel was given the chance to stay on this season, if he agreed to change the style of play, but he refused to do so.

 

As masters of spin, the Southampton board may have been truthful in stating the above; I have a suspicion, however, that they omitted Puel's coda "with the squad of players at my disposal."

 

Southampton had and have a, largely, excellent back 8 or 9 but a mediocre front 2 or 3, hence the lack of goals in the last season and a half. Goals cost more money than the board is prepared to sanction.

 

As time passes, Puel emerges with ever greater credit for effectively falling on his sword.

 

Pellegrino is not the problem.

 

Exactly what I was saying all of last season.

 

Slowly, more and more people are beginning to see what the real issue is. (and therefore, Les Reed must also take some of the blame)

[DT]

As I said. Palace will be fine

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Saint-Fred]

As I said. Palace will be fine

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Unbeaten in 6 or 7 now isn't it?

[HKsaint]

Pellegrino out please

 

Don’t do luck draw again

[DT]

Bad result today as not bad enough to give this clueless, defensive, negative, characterless, spineless, boring, shortsighted clown the push

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SNSUN]

What worries me most about MP is he doesn't seemingly know what our best formation is nor what our best starting line up is. Rotation is fine if you have the squad, but as soon as a player starts playing well (Austin/Hojbjerg/Boufal in recent weeks) he's dropped. We're looking worryingly over our shoulder and with a squad like ours, we shouldn't be doing that. 4 wins from 18 games and out of the League Cup against a reserve team from the league below us - not great is it.

 

New manager IN please. No disrespect to Pellegrino, but this squad needs a big kick up the arse, and the jolt of a new manager would sort that. None of this Potter/Wilder stuff either, we need a manager that the likes of VVD and co can look up to, a name in the game. (Yes, I believe the problem lies 'above' the manager, but Reed/the board aren't going anywhere so Pellegrino needs to.)

[qwertyell]

19 games, 4 wins, 3 points above the relegation zone.

 

Wonder how much worse it has to get before the club acts.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

[aintforever]

Palace, West Ham and Everton all acted decisively and are improving. It was obvious over a month ago that this clown out of his depth yet Reed does nothing. Just hope we haven’t left it too late.

[Saints foreva]

I reckon he will be sacked after we lose to Fulham in the cup.

[PaulSaint]

He'll offer the Koeman Brothers a cheap deal & they'll take it to rebuild their reputation.

[broncoboy]

19 games, 4 wins, 3 points above the relegation zone.

 

Wonder how much worse it has to get before the club acts.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

 

By December the stats don't lie

Pellegrino has shown no ability to manage

the team. Redmond proves week in week out

how poor he is. Sack Black &Pellegrino

before it is too late to avoid relegation

Laughably the echo is stating we are "considering"

buying some players in the window.

No ****?The dogs in the street know VVD

will fund those players

[Dark Munster]

The fans were told that Puel was given the chance to stay on this season, if he agreed to change the style of play, but he refused to do so.

 

As masters of spin, the Southampton board may have been truthful in stating the above; I have a suspicion, however, that they omitted Puel's coda "with the squad of players at my disposal."

 

Southampton had and have a, largely, excellent back 8 or 9 but a mediocre front 2 or 3, hence the lack of goals in the last season and a half. Goals cost more money than the board is prepared to sanction.

 

As time passes, Puel emerges with ever greater credit for effectively falling on his sword.

 

Pellegrino is not the only problem.

Fixed it for you.

[DT]

I reckon he'll be sacked when we lose to Pompey in league one

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guan 2.0]

If he resigned tonight i would have so much respect for him. It's not working out, and he's not the right man to choose targets for the transfer window.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Palace, West Ham and Everton all acted decisively and are improving. It was obvious over a month ago that this clown out of his depth yet Reed does nothing. Just hope we haven’t left it too late.

 

Exactly. Even the likes of Huddersfield and Brighton seem to be able to show some passion. Not our lot. As I've said elsewhere, that Everton result ****ed us up. MP should've gone before that, but that win saved his skin... and ruined Christmas for the fans.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

If he resigned tonight i would have so much respect for him. It's not working out, and he's not the right man to choose targets for the transfer window.

 

Yep.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

I reckon he will be sacked after we lose to Fulham in the cup.

 

That's too late. Just bite the bullet and get RK on the phone.

[Saint Albert]

That's too late. Just bite the bullet and get RK on the phone.

 

It is telling that this is starting to look like a good option, or at least a considerably better option than the status quo.

[Suhari]

If he resigned tonight i would have so much respect for him. It's not working out, and he's not the right man to choose targets for the transfer window.

 

If he doesn't go tomorrow, is it going to be too late?

 

Are we really likely to improve this season with him in charge? No...I really can't see it.

Are we really going to attract decent players in January with him in charge, and with us looking likely to be in a relegation fight? Unlikely.

Would we be able to get a better manager in if we got rid of him after January? Doubt it.

If he goes in January or just before, and we start the window without a manager - what is the impact on our transfer window dealings? Not positive.

 

We need him gone this weekend.

[DT]

This has all been clear for three weeks, and in that time we lost a good opportunity in Allardyce. Options now look very thin

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Badger]

I reckon he will be sacked after we lose to Fulham in the cup.

 

Ideally I'd like the new manager to have the cup run as a nice distraction in pursuit of glory rather than just the prospect of seeing out the season to an end.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Ideally I'd like the new manager to have the cup run as a nice distraction in pursuit of glory rather than just the prospect of seeing out the season to an end.

 

Problem is if they make the final and lose, people will want him out. Although if he makes 7th or above he may get a stay of execution

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matthew Le God]

If he resigned tonight i would have so much respect for him. It's not working out, and he's not the right man to choose targets for the transfer window.

 

Pretty rare (and for good reason) for a manager to walk away from millions of potential compensation.

[OldNick]

I watched the match snippets on Skygo and was wondering who our no 11(?) was, weak in the tackle, let the ball go under his foot and wondered if it wasa youth player, or Carlton Palmer. It turns out to be Lemina. What a cracking manager to turn the one real plus of our team from the start of the season to be Mr Bean

[Micky]

Pretty rare (and for good reason) for a manager to walk away from millions of potential compensation.

Exactly, ain't gonna happen.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[wild-saint]

If he resigned tonight i would have so much respect for him. It's not working out, and he's not the right man to choose targets for the transfer window.

 

Not sure the managers have ever had much sway on targets to be fair

[Sheaf Saint]

Not sure the managers have ever had much sway on targets to be fair

 

Koeman quite obviously did with the players he signed from the Dutch league (Pelle, Tadic, Martina, Clasie).

[View From The Top]

The club won't sack him, they don't have the balls.

 

Championship football, here we come.

[Cartman]

This has all been clear for three weeks, and in that time we lost a good opportunity in Allardyce. Options now look very thin

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

As if we would ever hire someone like Allardyce. Or Pulis. Or anyone British for that matter. Next coach will be foreign, and the one after that, and the one after that. British managers have the terrible habit of wanting to be the next Ferguson, Clough, Shankly and run the whole club, we won't go anywhere near them.

[Crab Lungs]

As if we would ever hire someone like Allardyce. Or Pulis. Or anyone British for that matter. Next coach will be foreign, and the one after that, and the one after that. British managers have the terrible habit of wanting to be the next Ferguson, Clough, Shankly and run the whole club, we won't go anywhere near them.

 

Leslie wouldn’t want anyone treading on his toes, either.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

I watched the match snippets on Skygo and was wondering who our no 11(?) was, weak in the tackle, let the ball go under his foot and wondered if it wasa youth player, or Carlton Palmer. It turns out to be Lemina. What a cracking manager to turn the one real plus of our team from the start of the season to be Mr Bean

 

I’m no fan of MP bit to blame him for a player’s weak tackles and poor control is just silly.