S-Clarke Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Adkins, Stachan? Some people allow sentiment to rule their heads. Our problems are much larger than just Pellegrino. I would agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Adkins, Stachan? Some people allow sentiment to rule their heads. Our problems are much larger than just Pellegrino. Been saying this for a while now, there's a handful of players with too much power that need to be shipped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 The **** is still here? Was hoping to wake up to him and back gone. ****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 The **** is still here? Was hoping to wake up to him and back gone. ****! He won’t be, I don’t think, not anytime soon. The club backed Puel last Jan by shipping out Fonte to West Ham. Perhaps they’ll do the same this year, although I’m not exactly sure who the troublemakers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Fred Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Too easy to blame the manager. These players are on easy street, ****ing bigger egos than talent. He'll probably be another manager that loses his job on the back of their lack of application. He's doing his best week in week out, there's not many players that are doing the same. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk But that's the same everywhere..look at Chelsea? Managers at short term now anyway and most of them on a cycle managing half the premier league clubs in their time. Maybe we should go old school kick ass with some one like Warnock! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Been saying this for a while now, there's a handful of players with too much power that need to be shipped out. Can you enlighten us as to how... 1) this "power" manifests in reality 2) which players 3) your good evidence to support such a claim (not just a hunch) ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Too easy to blame the manager. These players are on easy street, ****ing bigger egos than talent. He'll probably be another manager that loses his job on the back of their lack of application. He's doing his best week in week out, there's not many players that are doing the same. alk It is the manager's job to motivate and get the best out of the players! That is his remit. We have a better squad of individuals man for man than Burnely... but Sean Dyche is doing a signicantly better job than Pellegrino with a less talented squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 I prefer to wait and see. Stick with Pellegrino until January, that way he can wreck our transfer window as well. Since when has a Saints manager signed footballers? Since they are one of the primary members of the transfer committee? It's even public record, not even a matter of secrecy. The manager passes on the area's he needs to be strengthened in, Unfortunately, Pellegrino can't even decide on the best position for a player on the game to game basis, let alone who needs replacing. But yeah let's keep him. Along with his tactical genius, he needed clear the air talks with the players after ten (10) games. Someone on Twitter just suggested Giggs. Give me strength If Reed and co can't come up with better alternatives than this, they need to go too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Since they are one of the primary members of the transfer committee? It's even public record, not even a matter of secrecy. The manager passes on the area's he needs to be strengthened in, Unfortunately, Pellegrino can't even decide on the best position for a player on the game to game basis, let alone who needs replacing. But yeah let's keep him. Along with his tactical genius, he needed clear the air talks with the players after ten (10) games. If Reed and co can't come up with better alternatives than this, they need to go too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Suggestions like giggs are what happen when you limit your shortlist to only unemployed managers. Les has blagged his way to the top, with a bit of luck along the way, and has since been sussed out. Time for a big clear out (management, players, directors). Let’s hope Mr Gao can get the right man in to over see things.... Mitchell back please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Les has blagged his way to the top, with a bit of luck along the way, and has since been sussed out. Time for a big clear out (management, players, directors). In its 132 year history he club has had two golden ages in the top flight... early to mid 1980s and we are still in the current one of 2012 to the present day. Les Reed is a key part of the second one, Cortese appointed Reed to overall the football as Cortese had no background of high level football. Let’s hope Mr Gao can get the right man in to over see things.... Mitchell back please. Paul Mitchell was under Les Reed. It was Reed overseeing things in terms of football when Mitchell was at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersubpuckett Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 i wouldn't mind betting last night was an example of the players looking to get the manager sacked - what better way than to let yourself get stuffed by a team run by your former boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 In its 132 year history he club has had two golden ages in the top flight... early to mid 1980s and we are still in the current one of 2012 to the present day. Les Reed is a key part of the second one, Cortese appointed Reed to overall the football as Cortese had no background of high level football. Paul Mitchell was under Les Reed. It was Reed overseeing things in terms of football when Mitchell was at the club. This doesn’t feel like a golden age. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 i wouldn't mind betting last night was an example of the players looking to get the manager sacked - what better way than to let yourself get stuffed by a team run by your former boss. I was hoping that they would be motivated to show Puel up by playing well. I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickylambert Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Genius. Rather than judging a manager on the job of a manager, we should just ditch all footballers from the club. Maybe hire some down to earth people from another sport? The manager's job is to get players on form in a coherent team you absolute fcking clown. Because he's clearly suggesting we just sack off all the players...If you can't see a lack of commitment from some then perhaps your the 'clown'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickylambert Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/14/mauricio-pellegrino-commitment-southampton-players This is interesting for a number of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Has he gone yet? No? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Been saying this for a while now, there's a handful of players with too much power that need to be shipped out. My guesses; Bertrand, Tadic, VVD, maybe Davis and Forster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltashSaint Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 How the hell can the manager be questioning the commitment of the players when those who produce committed and impressive performances are rewarded with being sat on the bench. JWP, PEH and Jack Stephens were fantastic against Arsenal, while Yoshi has been great whenever called upon, yet they are consistently in and out of the side. Yet the likes of Tadic and Bertrand, who have sailed through games with minimal effort, are continuously selected. Why doesn't the manager decide on a formation, a style of play and a constant team - especially in defence - and then he can start criticising the players. His tactics and team selections have been awful this season and he has to be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaman Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 My automatic response, when I feel despondent and in a heightened state, is to exclusively blame the manager. That one guy who makes the decisions on tactics, squad etc. And it is very very easy to say things in hindsight that seem to be obvious fallacies in the managers approach (narrative fallacy). Whilst I am certainly not staunchly defending MP, there are surely many known and unknown anfractuous variables contributing to the current situation. Anybody at the game last night would surely be hard-pressed to delegate blame to any one individual. It was not a team giving 100% let down by tactics and formation alone (although these were certainly factors), the goals (for example) were sloppy; defenders making basic errors, not tracking runners etc. The truth is, we do not have all the details on the intrinsic running of the club and the interpersonal relationships which inform the qualitative data (ie. Results and league tables). It is simply not information that we are privy to. We can look at what we do know (we haven’t replaced quality like-for-like… then again, one does not simply dip into the transfer market for a Wanyama/Sneiderlin/alderweireld/Lallana, these are special players that are hard to replace), the Manager does seem to be getting tactics wrong in some games, players do seem unmotivated (quite how no one is commenting that our CB clearly doesn’t want to be here and has zero commitment to the club as a factor in all this is beyond me). I guess what I am trying to say is, I am not a fan of MP but the problems are much broader and more complicated than bringing in another bloke. I’m happy to be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Strachan until the end of the season - at least he will motivate rather stand still and look confused. And Gordon will kick a few back ends too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 How the hell can the manager be questioning the commitment of the players when those who produce committed and impressive performances are rewarded with being sat on the bench. JWP, PEH and Jack Stephens were fantastic against Arsenal, while Yoshi has been great whenever called upon, yet they are consistently in and out of the side. Yet the likes of Tadic and Bertrand, who have sailed through games with minimal effort, are continuously selected. Why doesn't the manager decide on a formation, a style of play and a constant team - especially in defence - and then he can start criticising the players. His tactics and team selections have been awful this season and he has to be held accountable. There's a case for consistency but I would hold the Arsenal and City games up as very strong tactical performances against good opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandy_Top_89 Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 I am a bit unsure after last night, instinct says Pellegrino isn't doing a good enough job and there are various things you can pick at in terms of tactics and selection. But a lot of the teams current failings are the same as when Puel was in charge and they have lived well into the current regime. The common theme is the players and I am starting to believe that they are either just not good enough as a whole, or their attitude is just too poor and they will fail under any manager. Unfortunately that is the much more expensive and long winded problem to solve, but maybe the reality. I don't think Pellegrino is doing a great job, but I feel that the players and Reed are more to blame for the present situation, and I honestly don't see a better manager who would realistically come to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 we are in very real trouble of relegation on this current path Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 I want to see the back of him but who the hell would want to come to St Marys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 I am a bit unsure after last night, instinct says Pellegrino isn't doing a good enough job and there are various things you can pick at in terms of tactics and selection. But a lot of the teams current failings are the same as when Puel was in charge and they have lived well into the current regime. The common theme is the players and I am starting to believe that they are either just not good enough as a whole, or their attitude is just too poor and they will fail under any manager. Unfortunately that is the much more expensive and long winded problem to solve, but maybe the reality. I don't think Pellegrino is doing a great job, but I feel that the players and Reed are more to blame for the present situation, and I honestly don't see a better manager who would realistically come to us. Common denominator....... Eric Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 I want to see the back of him but who the hell would want to come to St Marys. Loads of people, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Anyone still thinking, give him more time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Get Van Gaal in least he would sort the egos out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Too easy to blame the manager. These players are on easy street, ****ing bigger egos than talent. He'll probably be another manager that loses his job on the back of their lack of application. He's doing his best week in week out, there's not many players that are doing the same. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Lord You have totally missed the point ... He plays players in positions they have proved over two seasons not to be able to play in. He drops players who play very well for no reason - we don’t need to rotate! He doesn’t know his best system or players.... He doesn’t adapt during games... HE has the lack of application and it’s ****ing the players off now and the fans... He is not up to the job .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Lord You have totally missed the point ... He plays players in positions they have proved over two seasons not to be able to play in. He drops players who play very well for no reason - we don’t need to rotate! He doesn’t know his best system or players.... He doesn’t adapt during games... HE has the lack of application and it’s ****ing the players off now and the fans... He is not up to the job .. One more HE. He should just feck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Get Van Gaal in least he would sort the egos out! Van gaal recently dismissed borussia Dortmund as a small club I think he'd **** himself laughing if we came calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Lord You have totally missed the point ... He plays players in positions they have proved over two seasons not to be able to play in. He drops players who play very well for no reason - we don’t need to rotate! He doesn’t know his best system or players.... He doesn’t adapt during games... HE has the lack of application and it’s ****ing the players off now and the fans... He is not up to the job .. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Anyone still thinking, give him more time? Les Reed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 There's a case for consistency but I would hold the Arsenal and City games up as very strong tactical performances against good opposition. Let’s get this totally straight.... It doesnt take a tactical genius to put 10 men behind the ball!!! It does take tactical eneptitude to play well for 10 mins and be crap for the remaining 80 90% If the time... We are very poor 90% of the time .... Anyway - anyone else - other that MP up for Tadic on the right and Redmond on the left next game???? Ummmm thought not!!!! Our Manager though cannot see this... So when do you say ‘sorry mate but you are now showing how poor you are at recognising how to get the most from your players’ ..... ? No wonder they have him by the throat - the guy just doesn’t get it at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 There's a case for consistency but I would hold the Arsenal and City games up as very strong tactical performances against good opposition. It interesting that this has come up. I was listening to The Times podcast discussing West Ham's win against Chelsea. James Scowcroft said he'd played in poor sides where some players had downed tools and were going through the motions. Claimed that they played well against the big clubs for 2 reasons. One was they wanted a move and the other was they faced humiliation if they didn't . Said sides will take half committed sides apart and score 6 or 7. He said when judging players attitudes don't make that Judgement after they've played a big club, but when they've played their peers. When they've played sides which have players of similar ability, then you can judge who is putting it in and who isn't. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 Les Reed. And he can feck off as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 I want to see the back of him but who the hell would want to come to St Marys.Loads of good managers would. Why wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted 14 December, 2017 Share Posted 14 December, 2017 We face a serious battle to stay up and this struggle is underestimated in my opinion. Consider the following: - ignore the Udders match coming up as that is actually the first time we have played the same team twice. So the true halfway point is after the Chelsea and Spurs games. Then we have played all 19 teams once, and I don’t see a point in either game. So we will be stuck on 18 points, double it and you get to 36 which is relegation in all likelihood. - because of the Wet Spam switch we face extra away game in second half of season. And our home matches are tougher with Chelsea, Spurs, City and Liverpool all to come down here all chasing title or Champions League football - we have had a virtually injury free squad, stronger than under Puel, and because of Wolves Reserves fiasco have had no European or League Cup distractions. Again much easier than under Puel. We must assume that injuries and suspension will increase after Xmas - there isn’t any evidence that we are any better now than we were in Aug. He has week in, week out, uninterrupted coaching time. Where is the progress? I would never have sacked Puel, but this guy feels a downgrade and I don’t see a reason to sit and gamble given all of the above that he will suddenly come good. I think we have a good squad, a tall striker apart. He isn’t getting anything like maximum from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 We face a serious battle to stay up and this struggle is underestimated in my opinion. Consider the following: - ignore the Udders match coming up as that is actually the first time we have played the same team twice. So the true halfway point is after the Chelsea and Spurs games. Then we have played all 19 teams once, and I don’t see a point in either game. So we will be stuck on 18 points, double it and you get to 36 which is relegation in all likelihood. - because of the Wet Spam switch we face extra away game in second half of season. And our home matches are tougher with Chelsea, Spurs, City and Liverpool all to come down here all chasing title or Champions League football - we have had a virtually injury free squad, stronger than under Puel, and because of Wolves Reserves fiasco have had no European or League Cup distractions. Again much easier than under Puel. We must assume that injuries and suspension will increase after Xmas - there isn’t any evidence that we are any better now than we were in Aug. He has week in, week out, uninterrupted coaching time. Where is the progress? I would never have sacked Puel, but this guy feels a downgrade and I don’t see a reason to sit and gamble given all of the above that he will suddenly come good. I think we have a good squad, a tall striker apart. He isn’t getting anything like maximum from them. This. Top post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 Staggered he's still here Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 Staggered he's still here This! Every day I wake up hoping to hear that he's gone, along with the backroom staff. His departure can not come soon enough. If we wait until the new year to get rid, we're even more ****ed than we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kucho Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 I think Pellegrino works well when he is at a smaller club like Alaves. He probably prefers to play a more defensive game with quick breaks on the counter, like against City and Arsenal. When we play teams like Leicester and Burnley, and have to bring the game to them, thats when it goes wrong. Pellegrino is a decent manager, but not the one that will take us as a club to the next level. I think we need a more experienced manager who has a record of developing players and likes playing a certain style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 We face a serious battle to stay up and this struggle is underestimated in my opinion. Consider the following: - ignore the Udders match coming up as that is actually the first time we have played the same team twice. So the true halfway point is after the Chelsea and Spurs games. Then we have played all 19 teams once, and I don’t see a point in either game. So we will be stuck on 18 points, double it and you get to 36 which is relegation in all likelihood. - because of the Wet Spam switch we face extra away game in second half of season. And our home matches are tougher with Chelsea, Spurs, City and Liverpool all to come down here all chasing title or Champions League football - we have had a virtually injury free squad, stronger than under Puel, and because of Wolves Reserves fiasco have had no European or League Cup distractions. Again much easier than under Puel. We must assume that injuries and suspension will increase after Xmas - there isn’t any evidence that we are any better now than we were in Aug. He has week in, week out, uninterrupted coaching time. Where is the progress? I would never have sacked Puel, but this guy feels a downgrade and I don’t see a reason to sit and gamble given all of the above that he will suddenly come good. I think we have a good squad, a tall striker apart. He isn’t getting anything like maximum from them. Very good analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 Will be interesting to see when anyone, player, manager, club actually admits we are in a relegation battle. When we are annoyed that Watford end up losing to Palace it shows where we are...right in the mix. January will be interesting also as the others down there will definitely make moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 Will be interesting to see when anyone, player, manager, club actually admits we are in a relegation battle. When we are annoyed that Watford end up losing to Palace it shows where we are...right in the mix. January will be interesting also as the others down there will definitely make moves. If so it will probably be the first time in history when a club has said it is in a relegation battle when they are 11th in the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 If so it will probably be the first time in history when a club has said it is in a relegation battle when they are 11th in the table. It is going to take some exceptional results in the next few games not to be in a relegation battle come the turn of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 If so it will probably be the first time in history when a club has said it is in a relegation battle when they are 11th in the table. You do realise there is the same points gap from us to 10th place as there is from us to 19th second from bottom, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 We face a serious battle to stay up and this struggle is underestimated in my opinion. Consider the following: - ignore the Udders match coming up as that is actually the first time we have played the same team twice. So the true halfway point is after the Chelsea and Spurs games. Then we have played all 19 teams once, and I don’t see a point in either game. So we will be stuck on 18 points, double it and you get to 36 which is relegation in all likelihood. - because of the Wet Spam switch we face extra away game in second half of season. And our home matches are tougher with Chelsea, Spurs, City and Liverpool all to come down here all chasing title or Champions League football - we have had a virtually injury free squad, stronger than under Puel, and because of Wolves Reserves fiasco have had no European or League Cup distractions. Again much easier than under Puel. We must assume that injuries and suspension will increase after Xmas - there isn’t any evidence that we are any better now than we were in Aug. He has week in, week out, uninterrupted coaching time. Where is the progress? I would never have sacked Puel, but this guy feels a downgrade and I don’t see a reason to sit and gamble given all of the above that he will suddenly come good. I think we have a good squad, a tall striker apart. He isn’t getting anything like maximum from them. Fair points, but presumably on that basis you could just say "whoever is in the bottom 3 after 19/20 games will go down"? We are currently ahead of 9 other teams, surely they are all looking like relegation certs as well? I'm playing Devil's Advocate simply on the bit in bold. I have been doubtful about Pellegrino for some time and am worried about how we will fare this season. I couldn't actually believe we were 11th when I checked the table earlier in the week, but the teams at the bottom are getting closer all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 Will be interesting to see when anyone, player, manager, club actually admits we are in a relegation battle. When we are annoyed that Watford end up losing to Palace it shows where we are...right in the mix. January will be interesting also as the others down there will definitely make moves. We are extremely arrogant as a club and fully expect us not to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 15 December, 2017 Share Posted 15 December, 2017 Clearly needs to go sharpish, Get somebody in now with actual experience and who could give the egos a kick up the ass. Give him the funds to clear-out the deadwood and to invest in some fresh talent Jan. What aspects of play has Pellegrino improved? I can't see any if anything I think we have gone backwards. Why does he keep rotating the team? you look at the Arsenal game and you had the foundations of a team that looked like they were starting to click and develop a bit of confidence...... Dress it up how you want admit the apppintment was a balls up! and get shot and get rid before we end up in the championship. On the other side of the coin if we stick with and go down would it be a good opportunity to clear out the overpaid dross and bed in the youth...... I don't think the manager is the man to us forward though. I have seen enough the Everton game like many have said was just papering over the cracks. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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