Where did it start going wrong?

[Saint86]

Laughable stuff....you do realise Reed was around doing all the work when Cortese was poncing around do nothing ?

 

 

The fact we did better after selling half a team (no thanks to cortese pushing them out btw) clearly missed you.

 

Wow. This is perhaps the biggest rewrite of history I've seen in recent years.

[Saint86]

We should acknowledge that Austin and Romeu had already arrived as replacements for Pelle and Wanyama. Mixed success on that front, but still.

 

Its not mixed success. Wanyama and Pelle were better as a CDM/Striker for us (respectively) than Romeu and Austin. I like Romeu a lot, but that is rose tinted spectacles to say he is a better CDM than Wanyama was/is; he was immense for us.

 

If anything, Romeu has more of the MS about him.

[DuncanRG]

Its not mixed success. Wanyama and Pelle were better as a CDM/Striker for us (respectively) than Romeu and Austin. I like Romeu a lot, but that is rose tinted spectacles to say he is a better CDM than Wanyama was/is; he was immense for us.

 

If anything, Romeu has more of the MS about him.

 

I'm not suggesting Romeu is better than Wanyama, only that he was a good replacement in the circumstances. They can't all be world beaters and Romeu has been very good for us.

[Nordic Saint]

When our head of recruitment Paul Mitchell, who was our real 'Black Box', went to Spurs. We got by for a few months by bringing in signings he'd already recommended but after that we were left rudderless in the transfer market, with Ross Wilson struggling to emulate the success we'd had with Mitchell.

 

Mitchell took Alderweireld and Wanyama with him to Spurs as well as players he'd identified as targets while he was here, like Trippier and Delle Ali. We only got van Dijk because Spurs didn't need him as they preferred Alderweireld.

 

Mitchell's value to a club in the transfer market is remrakable. He brought Mane here for just £11.8 million and Delle Ali to Sputs for just £10 million. They are now worth a combined total of £120 million. He also spotted Pochettino although it was Cortese who went on a scouting trip with him who claims a lot of the credit for that.

[the saint in winchester]

Well, Mitchell IS available for hire, according to this. Well, he may be, he and Spurs can't agree terms of his gardening leave, it seems.

 

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2017/11/03/mystery-surrounds-whereabouts-of-football-scout-paul-mitchell-mo/

[Monk]

When our head of recruitment Paul Mitchell, who was our real 'Black Box', went to Spurs. We got by for a few months by bringing in signings he'd already recommended but after that we were left rudderless in the transfer market, with Ross Wilson struggling to emulate the success we'd had with Mitchell.

 

Mitchell took Alderweireld and Wanyama with him to Spurs as well as players he'd identified as targets while he was here, like Trippier and Delle Ali. We only got van Dijk because Spurs didn't need him as they preferred Alderweireld.

 

Mitchell's value to a club in the transfer market is remrakable. He brought Mane here for just £11.8 million and Delle Ali to Sputs for just £10 million. They are now worth a combined total of £120 million. He also spotted Pochettino although it was Cortese who went on a scouting trip with him who claims a lot of the credit for that.

 

This.

 

Followed by Les Reed taking over football opperations.

 

Thirdly, Eric Blacks appointment.

[SKD]

This.

 

Followed by Les Reed taking over football opperations.

 

Thirdly, Eric Blacks appointment.

 

Yep, completely agree.

 

As I've said elsewhere, Les has done a lot of good at the club, but he currently has far too much power.

[Lord Duckhunter]

When our head of recruitment Paul Mitchell, who was our real 'Black Box', went to Spurs. We got by for a few months by bringing in signings he'd already recommended but after that we were left rudderless in the transfer market, with Ross Wilson struggling to emulate the success we'd had with Mitchell.

 

Mitchell took Alderweireld and Wanyama with him to Spurs as well as players he'd identified as targets while he was here, like Trippier and Delle Ali. We only got van Dijk because Spurs didn't need him as they preferred Alderweireld.

 

Mitchell's value to a club in the transfer market is remrakable. He brought Mane here for just £11.8 million and Delle Ali to Sputs for just £10 million. They are now worth a combined total of £120 million. He also spotted Pochettino although it was Cortese who went on a scouting trip with him who claims a lot of the credit for that.

 

David pleat recommended Alli to Spurs not Mitchell. They’d been tracking him since he was 15, way before Mitchell went there.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/how-tottenham-won-the-race-for-dele-alli-after-threeandahalf-years-a3123451.html

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited 7 November, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[DuncanRG]

Can anyone explain to me what Eric Black has done wrong? I'm baffled by the abuse he gets, given how little we know about the work of coaches.

[Heisenberg]

Can anyone explain to me what Eric Black has done wrong? I'm baffled by the abuse he gets, given how little we know about the work of coaches.

 

Probably easier to ask what has Black done right?

 

Black was assistant manager to Steve Kean at Blackburn Rovers - Blackburn relegated

 

He then went to Blackpool to support Barry Ferguson - Blackpool won only three of their twenty games

 

Next he goes to Wigan (July 2014) - Wigan relegated to league 1

 

Next up was Rotherham - Black was named as first team coach of Championship side Rotherham United (July 15) - They won just 6 of the 30 games he was there and were rock bottom. He left and Rotherham appointed Neil Warnock - the final 13 games Rotherham went W6, D5 L2 and stayed up.

 

Next was Villa - first team coach and then temp manager. Villa relegated

 

SFC next and its been decline, decline, decline

[St Marco]

He was gash at Celtic too.

[Heisenberg]

He was gash at Celtic too.

 

Yes that golden partnership with John Barnes

 

This much-hyped appointment was unsuccessful, however, and included a shock Scottish Cup defeat at the hands of Inverness Caledonian Thistle in February (which gave birth to the famous headline from The Sun: "Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious"). Barnes was sacked shortly afterwards and is now widely considered to be one of the worst managers in Celtic's history

 

Poor Eric just seems to be in the wrong place at the wrong time - consistantly

[eelpie]

It seems pretty clear this will be our worst PL season since we got promoted, and certainly a major drop in league position versus the last four seasons. Given the complete **** up we have made of such a kind start, many will feel that just avoiding relegation would be a decent outcome from her as we will almost certainly be in the shake up at Christmas.

 

So, when do people think the decline began? A few possibles as follows:

 

1. Koeman being easily tempted away after we finished 6th. No question that he would have done a better job than Puel or Pellegrino despite the PR mudslinging in the aftermath of his departure. His departure signalled that our ambition wasn't especially strong although he had a few poor runs of form along the way.

 

2. Poor managerial appointments from Les Reed. For a team that had just finished 6th in the PL we simply didnt need to take such a risk as Puel represented. Does Reed place too many restrictions on Managers, meaning better ones aren't interested? He admitted his mistake by firing Puel after one season but now looks to have made an even worse call.

 

3. Failure to replace the goals of Mane and Pelle. Its clear our issue is in the final third and we simply didnt replace the output of these players. Both Puel and Pellegrino have a squad with few recognised goalscorers and it really hampers them. To say Austin was Pelle's replacement was odd as we already had him and neither Redmond nor Boufal look near scoring 10 PL goals, let alone matching Mane's record. That we were so poor in front of goal last season and didnt sign a sigle attacker in the window is borderline insanity.

 

4. Losing Paul Mitchell and bringing in Ross Wilson. Wee Ross definitely has a lower success rate but how much does he actually decide?

 

5. Selling the soul of the team. This season is terrible for fans getting on the back of players who already lack confidence and it definitely doesn't help. There seems no real connection between the fans and the players because so many are open about Saints just being a stepping stone club and we now have only Davis & JWP of the Pochettino era which I think had a strong bond with the fans.

 

6. The ludicrously awful My Way song. We have got worse with each airing of it.

 

In truth it is probably a combination of all the above, maybe minus the song, but the biggest factor for me would be the awful replacements for Mane and Pelle's goals. Puel would have had a much fairer chance to suceed if this had been done properly and would likely still be in charge. He was majorly hamstrung with the squad he inherited and Pellegrino has been given the same pool of attackers that didn't produce for Puel. The rest of our team functions pretty well but we are so clueless in the final third and that also puts pressure on the defence as unless we keep a clean sheet we never win.

 

I think Reed started believing the club PR a bit too much and tried to be too clever and it could backfire spectacularly for him.

 

All of those in historic order, but mostly I think we would have kept momentum had not Les Read sold Mane and Pele without replacing at least one of them with an experienced effective striker, instead of gambling with Austin and Redmane. We will never know how we might have done last year had Puel had an effective striker up front. (Though we might get an idea watching Leicester this season.) For me Defoe would have been the goalscorer (albeit temporary given his age) that we never had.

 

Where did it start? Koeman's words "Saints (ie Les) lack ambition" ring very true now,

[eelpie]

All of those in historic order, but mostly I think we would have kept momentum had not Les Read sold Mane and Pele without replacing at least one of them with an experienced effective striker, instead of gambling with Austin and Redmane. We will never know how we might have done last year had Puel had an effective striker up front. (Though we might get an idea watching Leicester this season.) For me Defoe would have been the goalscorer (albeit temporary given his age) that we never had.

 

Where did it start? Koeman's words "Saints (ie Les) lack ambition" ring very true now,

Redmond I meant - even forgotten his name lol

[pluto]

Bloody heck. I was a massive Cortese fan after everything he did for us.

 

But your insider scope about him trying to sell the club that he never owned behind Kats back have turned my stomach.

 

Was he going to sell the club he didnt own and then take the bags of cash and jewells to "clock land"

 

Cortese the sneaky deceitful artful dodger.

 

Ill put this new exclusive in the drawer with "Les Reed signed Lambert" and we cant be successful in 2017 as we weren't successfully in 1965

 

#welimpon #cuckoo

 

Try.... obtaining a sell percentage

 

Like i said he had lost interest anyway and his wife wanted out and to move back home.

[pluto]

I think Always is right this time - when Cortese left nobody was worried or complaining or predicting any kind of meltdown or player exodus.

 

The papers reported a little bit but Reed sure did show them.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All these newspaper reports organised by Cortese via his mate David Bick at the time the clubs pr consultant !

 

What a vile man eh and yet you suck his balls

[DuncanRG]

Probably easier to ask what has Black done right?

 

Black was assistant manager to Steve Kean at Blackburn Rovers - Blackburn relegated

 

He then went to Blackpool to support Barry Ferguson - Blackpool won only three of their twenty games

 

Next he goes to Wigan (July 2014) - Wigan relegated to league 1

 

Next up was Rotherham - Black was named as first team coach of Championship side Rotherham United (July 15) - They won just 6 of the 30 games he was there and were rock bottom. He left and Rotherham appointed Neil Warnock - the final 13 games Rotherham went W6, D5 L2 and stayed up.

 

Next was Villa - first team coach and then temp manager. Villa relegated

 

SFC next and its been decline, decline, decline

 

Okay. What's he done wrong at Southampton? This is an honest question. The record of his past clubs is poor but nobody seems able to tell me what he's doing at work, now, that is problematic, or why the club has employed an assistant coach who is apparently the source of so many problems.

Edited 7 November, 2017 by DuncanRG

[Batman]

All these newspaper reports organised by Cortese via his mate David Bick at the time the clubs pr consultant !

 

What a vile man eh and yet you suck his balls

 

was correct though

[simo]

When Rupert wouldn't back Wgs in the transfer market !

[Window Cleaner]

When we (meaning the owner) ran out of money I suspect.

[Dark Munster]

Okay. What's he done wrong at Southampton? This is an honest question. The record of his past clubs is poor but nobody seems able to tell me what he's doing at work, now, that is problematic, or why the club has employed an assistant coach who is apparently the source of so many problems.

Too many coincidences. Six previous appointments have seen his clubs do disastrously, and since he came here we're heading the same way. He's not solely to blame of course, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together and deduce that he's not up to it.

[John B]

Too many coincidences. Six previous appointments have seen his clubs do disastrously, and since he came here we're heading the same way. He's not solely to blame of course, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together and deduce that he's not up to it.

 

Pretty disgraceful post Dark Munster I feel the post is open to legal action as you have no idea what Black's responsibilities are and how he is performing against them and you are slandering him

 

Comments bases on gut feelings are usually incorrect

 

Other people think otherwise http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/15645115.Eric_Black_starts_work_with_Scotland/

[Griffo]

When we got promoted 2 years running and improved year on year too quickly meaning our fans are now spoilt expectant brats.

[Saint Benali]

Can anyone explain to me what Eric Black has done wrong? I'm baffled by the abuse he gets, given how little we know about the work of coaches.

 

If I remember right at Celtic he was hated by the fans over an incident with Viduka. Something about Black telling him he was crap and not good enough (even though he was the leagues top scorer) and they almost came to blows over it. Black then went about getting him kicked out the club. Hence why they call him 'the grass'.

[Batman]

apart from the odd spell, Erik black is tagged with utter failure as a coach

[Suhari]

apart from the odd spell, Erik black is tagged with utter failure as a coach

 

Yet apparently our players, particularly the "senior" players, love him.

[Heisenberg]

Yet apparently our players, particularly the "senior" players, love him.

 

Sure they do. Club is full of clowns

[Daft Kerplunk]

Well hopefully it hasn’t gone totally wrong, but maybe a little less arrogance which can easily lead to complacency and a little more substance being added to the claims of developing world class players, marching on to years of continuous growth, saying we’ve got he best midfield options in the league etc.

[simo]

Yet apparently our players, particularly the "senior" players, love him.

 

A lot of people at my work may love me doesn't mean I'm any good at my job ? (Disclaimer* no one likes me at my work)

[Turkish]

Around March 2012 when the little Italian chap started getting ideas above his station. When he started thinking he knew better than anyone else in football. The problem was a lot of saps had already been sold on his unstoppable match to the champions league and believed his bullsh*t. All of a sudden they forget who we were and where we'd come from and would accept anything the Cuba heeled chancer spouted.

 

Now because of his overspending and false promises those that have done a good job and who have guided this club to one of its best periods in it history now look for the villain in where it all started to go wrong. I'll tell you where he is, unemployed and spend the millions you lot paid him living a life he couldn't even dream of, I think he might have a nice watch too.

[shurlock]

#triggered

 

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Okay. What's he done wrong at Southampton? This is an honest question. The record of his past clubs is poor but nobody seems able to tell me what he's doing at work, now, that is problematic, or why the club has employed an assistant coach who is apparently the source of so many problems.

 

In the light of his recent quote about watching the opposition all the time when linked with the Scotland job - I strongly suspect he is the root cause of the defensive anti-football we have dished up under Puel and Pellegrino. It's been like sitting on a lead at 0-0 for nearly every home game for about 2 years. That strategy fails regularly. Like Black.

[Rory Peepa]

We *could* easily be relegated this year. I see a lot of similarities with 05, in that our squad is unbalanced. This time the problem is the attack whereas before it was the defence. The fans are twitchy again and that filters into the pitch. We’ve missed Mane’s goals but most of all a target man to feed off. Every single team I’ve seen at home (missed WHU) have set up in the same basic way with men behind the ball and hoping not to lose rather than go out and attack. The fear of being relegated is making the football turgid. We are not equipped to break down the bus often and are going to struggle. Likewise I don’t think we can play like Burnley or West Brom and try to grind our way to 40 points.

 

Let’s face it, apart from City, Spurs,Scousers, Arsenal (sometimes) the prem has become turgid and uninspiring as a spectacle I’d rather watch my son’s U9s as far as excitement goes.

 

As for champions league it’s ironic that we are insisting players stay at the time of decline. We’ve had some GREAT players in last 5 year’s that could definitely be in the top 4 if it were possible to get them all at once and keep them. The recruitment over last 18 months has been off the pace and now we’re seeing the result. Agree that lack of addressing the attack is insane. Anyone can see that so why can’t the board?! [emoji35][emoji100]

 

But in terms of relegation West Brom, Huddersfield, Brighton, Palace, Stoke, Bournemouth , Swansea... mostly ****e.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nordic Saint]

David pleat recommended Alli to Spurs not Mitchell. They’d been tracking him since he was 15, way before Mitchell went there.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/how-tottenham-won-the-race-for-dele-alli-after-threeandahalf-years-a3123451.html

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Whereas Paul Mitchell had known Dele Alli since he was 10.

 

Dele Alli started training at MK Dons in 2007, when he was 10. Paul Mitchell was already there, having joined MK Dons as a player in 2004 and he became their head of recruitment in 2010. He recruited Alli for Spurs for 10 million in 2015. David Pleat was never at MK Dons and his last job at Spurs finished in 2004. From 2006 t0 2011 he was a consultant for his hometown club, Nott. Forest.

 

I've recommended players to SFC and I'm sure hundreds of other people have too. It doesn't mean we were responsible for recruiting them from all the other options that were out there. Getting exactly the right player from the hundreds that you are tracking and the thousands that are recommended to you is an exact art, which Paul Mitchell is very good at.

[adrian lord]

All these newspaper reports organised by Cortese via his mate David Bick at the time the clubs pr consultant !

 

What a vile man eh and yet you suck his balls

 

But the headlines came true.

[Dark Munster]

Yet apparently our players, particularly the "senior" players, love him.

I think at the time the players also loved Wigley and Gray.

[Dark Munster]

We *could* easily be relegated this year. I see a lot of similarities with 05, in that our squad is unbalanced. This time the problem is the attack whereas before it was the defence. The fans are twitchy again and that filters into the pitch. We’ve missed Mane’s goals but most of all a target man to feed off. Every single team I’ve seen at home (missed WHU) have set up in the same basic way with men behind the ball and hoping not to lose rather than go out and attack. The fear of being relegated is making the football turgid. We are not equipped to break down the bus often and are going to struggle. Likewise I don’t think we can play like Burnley or West Brom and try to grind our way to 40 points.

 

Let’s face it, apart from City, Spurs,Scousers, Arsenal (sometimes) the prem has become turgid and uninspiring as a spectacle I’d rather watch my son’s U9s as far as excitement goes.

 

As for champions league it’s ironic that we are insisting players stay at the time of decline. We’ve had some GREAT players in last 5 year’s that could definitely be in the top 4 if it were possible to get them all at once and keep them. The recruitment over last 18 months has been off the pace and now we’re seeing the result. Agree that lack of addressing the attack is insane. Anyone can see that so why can’t the board?! [emoji35][emoji100]

 

But in terms of relegation West Brom, Huddersfield, Brighton, Palace, Stoke, Bournemouth , Swansea... mostly ****e.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only if they're stupid enough to sack Pulis. His teams never get relegated.

[Pamplemousse]

I think at the time the players also loved Wigley and Gray.

 

Yup, worrying IMO. Maybe our current coaches are too scared to issue some harsh words, for fear that the players will suddenly dislike them.

[DuncanRG]

Too many coincidences. Six previous appointments have seen his clubs do disastrously, and since he came here we're heading the same way. He's not solely to blame of course, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together and deduce that he's not up to it.

 

Okay. Why do you think the club have failed to deduce this?

[Dark Munster]

Okay. Why do you think the club have failed to deduce this?

Your guess is as good as mine. I'm also wondering how they failed to deduce that we needed to sign a frontman who can score goals (this summer and last), or a decent back up gk, or a replacement for Fonte when he left, or .....

[doddisalegend]

Yup, worrying IMO. Maybe our current coaches are too scared to issue some harsh words, for fear that the players will suddenly dislike them.

 

last season the line from the ITKs was the players were playing badly because they all hated Puel and his ways...now they are all playing badly because they like Black and MoPe and need more harsh words ....maybe our players are just a bit ****..

[Ultimatt]

Whereas Paul Mitchell had known Dele Alli since he was 10.

 

Dele Alli started training at MK Dons in 2007, when he was 10. Paul Mitchell was already there, having joined MK Dons as a player in 2004 and he became their head of recruitment in 2010. He recruited Alli for Spurs for 10 million in 2015. David Pleat was never at MK Dons and his last job at Spurs finished in 2004. From 2006 t0 2011 he was a consultant for his hometown club, Nott. Forest.

 

You may be right but it's not a sure thing that Mitchell knew him. In fact i'd be surprised if he paid attention to a 10-13 year old since that would be a huge waste of his time. Mitchell does seem quality though.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

#triggered

 

 

It seems that lots are on this loons utterly hilarious "trigger" watch.... perhaps "pal" has run its course... #lonelyman

[shurlock]

It seems that lots are on this loons utterly hilarious "trigger" watch.... perhaps "pal" has run its course... #lonelyman

 

Lonely man too right.

 

Your bizarre obsession with me is growing by the day. But I don't think I can help you with your loneliness. Perhaps find someone of a similar age to you.

 

https://www.ourtime.co.uk/unlogged/landing/bn-2/?mtcmk=866583&tckvs=171108100312515687&tckka=171108100312512378&ktid=6127&klid=7414&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhPP2pc-u1wIVTDPTCh0ppAfLEAAYASAAEgLxGvD_BwE

 

No need to thank me pal

Edited 8 November, 2017 by shurlock

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Lonely man too right.

 

Your bizarre obsession with me is growing by the day. But I don't think I can help you with your loneliness. Perhaps find someone of a similar age to you.

 

http://www.eharmony.co.uk/lifestyle/over-50s-dating/?&cid=74105&pid=100000&aid=&kid=GOGsLCtjuKf2_dm&keyword=%2B50s%20%2Bdating&pcrid=221962976796&mt=b&source=googleuk&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInqvmhsyu1wIVigrTCh3D1QbmEAAYASAAEgJOX_D_BwE

 

No need to thank me pal

 

My obsession with you your delusion has no limits lonely man.

My guess is that you are a regular to that site but with no luck (personality issues)

[shurlock]

My obsession with you your delusion has no limits lonely man.

My guess is that you are a regular to that site but with no luck (personality issues)

 

So easily triggered.

 

Now bore off or actually talk about the football, you human sedative.

[sadoldgit]

When our head of recruitment Paul Mitchell, who was our real 'Black Box', went to Spurs. We got by for a few months by bringing in signings he'd already recommended but after that we were left rudderless in the transfer market, with Ross Wilson struggling to emulate the success we'd had with Mitchell.

 

Mitchell took Alderweireld and Wanyama with him to Spurs as well as players he'd identified as targets while he was here, like Trippier and Delle Ali. We only got van Dijk because Spurs didn't need him as they preferred Alderweireld.

 

Mitchell's value to a club in the transfer market is remrakable. He brought Mane here for just £11.8 million and Delle Ali to Sputs for just £10 million. They are now worth a combined total of £120 million. He also spotted Pochettino although it was Cortese who went on a scouting trip with him who claims a lot of the credit for that.

 

I am not saying that you are wrong about van Dijk but we were linked with him for a very long time before he finally signed for us and I don't recall him ever been linked with Spurs. How do you know that they would have been in for him if they didn't have Alderweireld?

[sadoldgit]

was correct though

 

Yep, things have been really bad since The Don left.

[shurlock]

I am not saying that you are wrong about van Dijk but we were linked with him for a very long time before he finally signed for us and I don't recall him ever been linked with Spurs. How do you know that they would have been in for him if they didn't have Alderweireld?

 

There was paper talk linking Van Dijk to Spurs at the time, if that's worth anything.

[darren2]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/576133/Tottenham-Want-Celtic-Defender-Virgil-van-Dijk