Where did it start going wrong?

[SKD]

Were you and as many people complaining then as they are now.... doubt it as we were still doing well and recorded our highest ever PL finish.. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it?

 

What, are you joking? People went mad the summer we lost pretty much all of our squad. Even Brendan Rodgers pointed out our ambition had changed.

 

We got lucky with Koeman, he was the right man at the right time for us. We still had a number of Mitchell's targets on the black box and I think Koeman had a clear idea of who and what he wanted to bring in.

 

I've always said our transfer strategy is risky and that one day it would come back to bite us. It now has. Ironically, the season we refused to have a clear out is the worst we've had.

 

Also, I'm not moaning that Cortese left. As you can see from my next sentence, I said we couldn't continue as we were under him.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

What, are you joking? People went mad the summer we lost pretty much all of our squad. Even Brendan Rodgers pointed out our ambition had changed.

 

We got lucky with Koeman, he was the right man at the right time for us. We still had a number of Mitchell's targets on the black box and I think Koeman had a clear idea of who and what he wanted to bring in.

 

I've always said our transfer strategy is risky and that one day it would come back to bite us. It now has. Ironically, the season we refused to have a clear out is the worst we've had.

 

Also, I'm not moaning that Cortese left. As you can see from my next sentence, I said we couldn't continue as we were under him.

 

Calm down! I said not as many..... and lots simmered down after the season panned out ok?

[Wurzel]

I'm still blaming it all on Redknapp.

[pluto]

Writing has been on the wall for a long time.

 

Started going down hill once Cortese left. Momentum carried us for couple of years but now seeing the fruits of Reeds labour.

 

Kat and Reed were too focused on profits and lining pockets.

 

 

Laughable stuff....you do realise Reed was around doing all the work when Cortese was poncing around do nothing ?

 

 

The fact we did better after selling half a team (no thanks to cortese pushing them out btw) clearly missed you.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Laughable stuff....you do realise Reed was around doing all the work when Cortese was poncing around do nothing ?

 

 

The fact we did better after selling half a team (no thanks to cortese pushing them out btw) clearly missed you.

 

Its all born from his obsessive hatred for the man..... god knows why he`s like that....

[pluto]

Our current predictament is down to nothing more than a poor manager choice and also 3/4 players brought in that arent as good as those that where sold.

 

Did we lose out on Marco Silva because of the dithering over sacking Puel ? He seemed very interested in coming here so why didnt it happen ?

 

We have players like Nathan Redmond, Pierre-Emile Højbjerg, Bednarak all brought on whose instruction ?? They are not top ten PL players and we paid £35M for them.

 

 

 

 

Then there is the bigger picture and the new owner having no representation on either board and what exactly is his/her reason for buying the club and what are their plans ?

[CB Fry]

What, are you joking? People went mad the summer we lost pretty much all of our squad. Even Brendan Rodgers pointed out our ambition had changed.

 

We got lucky with Koeman, he was the right man at the right time for us. We still had a number of Mitchell's targets on the black box and I think Koeman had a clear idea of who and what he wanted to bring in.

 

I've always said our transfer strategy is risky and that one day it would come back to bite us. It now has. Ironically, the season we refused to have a clear out is the worst we've had.

 

Also, I'm not moaning that Cortese left. As you can see from my next sentence, I said we couldn't continue as we were under him.

 

 

Which football club has a non-risky transfer strategy?

[aintforever]

I think Reed started believing the club PR a bit too much and tried to be too clever and it could backfire spectacularly for him.

 

Think this is the main reason, Lowe fell into the same trap last time we were relegated - he thought he’d cracked it after a cup final and European qualification, thought we were better than we were. I even remember similar masturbatory newspaper articles and fans thinking we couldn’t go down.

 

It was crystal clear to anyone with eyes that we had a serious goal-scoring problem last season, only a fool with blind faith in their black box and their “Southampton way” ignored the obvious.

 

We are in serious trouble, the only hope we have is that in theory we should be able to get better, especially when we cash in on the Dutch **** and rebalance the squad.

[sfc1976]

The death of Markus and the subsequent departure of Cortese.

 

If he had lived to see us in the prem then who knows what level of investment may have followed. That would have likely been the true turning point. As it turned out we have reverted back to the selling club, and ultimately slipping back to relegation fodder once more as a consequence.

[Dusic]

Summer transfer window of 2016 has got a lot of mentions. Anyone got our full set of ins and outs of that window to hand?

 

I wonder what percentage of the ins get in our first XI now?

[JRM]

It all started going wrong when we started spending future income on transfer fees and salaries or Gaston Ramirez and Dani Osvaldo, then having to later make changes to pay off some of those liabilities.

[adrian lord]

The death of Markus.

.

 

Root cause right there. Direction of club changed the moment he died. Cortese was now doomed, and the “project” abandoned.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[John B]

Root cause right there. Direction of club changed the moment he died. Cortese was now doomed, and the “project” abandoned.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

What evidence is there that Markhus was going spunk billions of his money to get to the Champions League?

 

I have never found any evidence that he was a billionaire with money to burn

[CB Fry]

The death of Markus and the subsequent departure of Cortese.

 

If he had lived to see us in the prem then who knows what level of investment may have followed. That would have likely been the true turning point. As it turned out we have reverted back to the selling club, and ultimately slipping back to relegation fodder once more as a consequence.

 

Even Cortese when he was here spoke about doing things "our way" and not just chucking money about, so the idea that Markus and Cortese would have been on some Man City style free spending bonanza is completely baseless.

 

I think people need to get a fuc king grip. We finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th - the idea that that was going to go on and on forever and ever with us finishing ever higher and higher and never ever dropping back to our perfectly normal level is laughable.

 

Southampton Football Club might finish mid table. What a disgrace. Jesus fu cking wept.

 

Its Les that has taken the expectations up so high with two outstanding seasons when we finished seventh and then sixth. As far as this forum goes, those seasons are the biggest mistake he ever made.

[Dark Munster]

I am really surprised that MP hasn't brought in his own backroom staff? Working with people that he trusts and who understand his way of things would be pretty crucial

Pure speculation, but I'm guessing a number of players pushed for Puel to go, but also insisted their buddy Black stayed. Hopefully Reed has learnt from this mistake, and when he does sack MoPe he clears out the deadwood coaching staff too (Black and Watson in particular).

[Dark Munster]

Its started to go wrong when Puel was appointed and decided to change the formation of the side up front. Koeman inherited the formation from the previous manager but made us a little more direct getting the ball up top quicker.

 

Claude Puel totally changed it by taking out the front man who came looking for the ball and would hold it up for the midfield to release mane or whoever. This created more chances and more goals. Since then as we've experienced it's been utter tripe.

 

The reason Puel did this was because he said the way we were playing would knacker us out with the amount of games we would have (or not) with Europe etc..

 

Best thing we can do is get a Pelle type player in the Xmas window.

 

Simple reason really but only us fans see it not the management.

Maybe that's because the front man (Pelle) and Mane were sold?

[Micky]

Even Cortese when he was here spoke about doing things "our way" and not just chucking money about, so the idea that Markus and Cortese would have been on some Man City style free spending bonanza is completely baseless.

 

I think people need to get a fuc king grip. We finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th - the idea that that was going to go on and on forever and ever with us finishing ever higher and higher and never ever dropping back to our perfectly normal level is laughable.

 

Southampton Football Club might finish mid table. What a disgrace. Jesus fu cking wept.

 

Its Les that has taken the expectations up so high with two outstanding seasons when we finished seventh and then sixth. As far as this forum goes, those seasons are the biggest mistake he ever made.

This. This is the reality of our situation. If you've followed the club for any length of time you should be neither surprised or to worried right now.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Heisenberg]

This. This is the reality of our situation. If you've followed the club for any length of time you should be neither surprised or to worried right now.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

Agreed! We should definitely let the past hold us back.

 

Once a loser always a loser right.....

 

Im just glad to have a club.

 

Jiminy Cricket.... Show me a good loser, ill show u a loser

[pluto]

Amazed some fans still have a hard on about Cortese he really did a number on you lot ! Mind you he was paying the N01 sport pr consultant David Bick to serve you up.

 

The fact we improved ater he left seems to miss you chaps and that despite him doing his best to unsettle the club before he left.

 

He of course was looking to sell the club and wasnt interested in being here longterm, he saw it as a great way to earn mega money and then bugger off back to clock land with his booty.

 

Alas Kat and her advisors saw his game and got rid.

[Micky]

Agreed! We should definitely let the past hold us back.

 

Once a loser always a loser right.....

 

Im just glad to have a club.

 

Jiminy Cricket.... Show me a good loser, ill show u a loser

Don't think I ever said that we were losers, ever. Went to the game at the weekend and only saw one team trying to win it. Wasn't at all surprised to see that team lose in the end. Sat with my 14 year old son at the end, he said to me that we have to take the rough with the smooth, made me smile.

 

The past is not holding us back, as you suggest, the present is. To make it simple for you, we need more money, the owners don't have it, we have to make do.

 

Now you can rant on and on about how Kat had been very, very bad and pocketed all the readies again in a minute, but I have been more than happy with the progress and investment since her arrival.

 

I am very glad to have a club, I make no apologies for that (certainly not to you). Loser no, realist absolutely. HTH.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Saint Benali]

Find it quite remarkable how many people are actually happy with being average.

For me I don't expect us to be a top 4 side, far from it. But we should be one of the teams fighting for that last euro spot. That doesn't mean I expect us to be 6th it means we should be closer to that then the relegation zone. People talk about money but seem to ignore the fact we are in the top 20 richest clubs in the world according to Deloitte. In the PL we are ranked 10th. So we have a better income then half the league.

But the main thing I expect is the team to look like they give a ****. We gave up attacking football and went ultra defensive. We turned our back on the style that brought us success and decided to go West Brom 7 defence minded players on the pitch style.

Half the players don't look like they care, some want out, the manager is clueless and the people above him have been found out. Say what you want about Cortese but he wouldn't settle for average and he wouldn't settle on staff not giving a ****.

[hackedoff]

Think this is the main reason, Lowe fell into the same trap last time we were relegated - he thought he’d cracked it after a cup final and European qualification, thought we were better than we were. I even remember similar masturbatory newspaper articles and fans thinking we couldn’t go down.

 

It was crystal clear to anyone with eyes that we had a serious goal-scoring problem last season, only a fool with blind faith in their black box and their “Southampton way” ignored the obvious.

 

We are in serious trouble, the only hope we have is that in theory we should be able to get better, especially when we cash in on the Dutch **** and rebalance the squad.

 

Agree. Things began to go wrong when the club decided to rework Lowes method of just staying in the Prem with the minimum of outlay. It ended badly then and will again.

[Heisenberg]

Amazed some fans still have a hard on about Cortese he really did a number on you lot ! Mind you he was paying the N01 sport pr consultant David Bick to serve you up.

 

The fact we improved ater he left seems to miss you chaps and that despite him doing his best to unsettle the club before he left.

 

He of course was looking to sell the club and wasnt interested in being here longterm, he saw it as a great way to earn mega money and then bugger off back to clock land with his booty.

 

Alas Kat and her advisors saw his game and got rid.

 

Bloody heck. I was a massive Cortese fan after everything he did for us.

 

But your insider scope about him trying to sell the club that he never owned behind Kats back have turned my stomach.

 

Was he going to sell the club he didnt own and then take the bags of cash and jewells to "clock land"

 

Cortese the sneaky deceitful artful dodger.

 

Ill put this new exclusive in the drawer with "Les Reed signed Lambert" and we cant be successful in 2017 as we weren't successfully in 1965

 

#welimpon #cuckoo

Edited 6 November, 2017 by Heisenberg

[hackedoff]

Find it quite remarkable how many people are actually happy with being average.

For me I don't expect us to be a top 4 side, far from it. But we should be one of the teams fighting for that last euro spot. That doesn't mean I expect us to be 6th it means we should be closer to that then the relegation zone. People talk about money but seem to ignore the fact we are in the top 20 richest clubs in the world according to Deloitte. In the PL we are ranked 10th. So we have a better income then half the league.

But the main thing I expect is the team to look like they give a ****. We gave up attacking football and went ultra defensive. We turned our back on the style that brought us success and decided to go West Brom 7 defence minded players on the pitch style.

Half the players don't look like they care, some want out, the manager is clueless and the people above him have been found out. Say what you want about Cortese but he wouldn't settle for average and he wouldn't settle on staff not giving a ****.

 

Well put, unfortunately some on here will respond to you by saying if that is what you want then go and support Man City or Chelsea etc. I say if you want crap football then go and support Bury or Rochdale.

[CB Fry]

Agree. Things began to go wrong when the club decided to rework Lowes method of just staying in the Prem with the minimum of outlay. It ended badly then and will again.

When have we started to "rework" that "method" then? We didn't sell anyone in the summer and have double-digit million pound players in every area of the pitch and on the bench.

 

Our attack might be sh ite but they don't represent the "minimum outlay" on any measure, anywhere.

 

Fu cking drips on this forum.

[doddisalegend]

Find it quite remarkable how many people are actually happy with being average.

For me I don't expect us to be a top 4 side, far from it. But we should be one of the teams fighting for that last euro spot. That doesn't mean I expect us to be 6th it means we should be closer to that then the relegation zone. People talk about money but seem to ignore the fact we are in the top 20 richest clubs in the world according to Deloitte. In the PL we are ranked 10th. So we have a better income then half the league.

But the main thing I expect is the team to look like they give a ****. We gave up attacking football and went ultra defensive. We turned our back on the style that brought us success and decided to go West Brom 7 defence minded players on the pitch style.

Half the players don't look like they care, some want out, the manager is clueless and the people above him have been found out. Say what you want about Cortese but he wouldn't settle for average and he wouldn't settle on staff not giving a ****.

 

Literally no one is happy with being average. The difference is between those that recognise the reality of the PL and those who are a bit delusional and still living off some dream scenario of nik-nak turning saints into a European super team. Despite the different outlooks their isn't one saints fan who doesn't want us to do well...other than Glasgow of course

[James]

For me it’s relatively obvious, our current malaise stems from us meekly surrendering the strongest position the club has ever been in following the 2015/6 season. In the space of a couple of weeks we had:

 

- lost our manager

- sold our two best attackers

- lost the bedrock of our midfield

 

Add to that our appointment of a “off the wall” managerial choice at the expense of more established options that were supposedly keen to join us, a chronic lack of investment and a lingering takeover. No club of our size has any hope of dealing with all that in a single season.

[Pilchards]

Think the trouble started when we went the way of buying two squads to compete in Europe and the Premiership.

After it went tits up we were left with average players on long term contracts who don’t give a **** no more.

Mcqueen, Taggart, Stephens & Sims would die for club but they can’t get into the team because our shoddy managerial appointments are killing everything.

[shurlock]

Bloody heck. I was a massive Cortese fan after everything he did for us.

 

But your insider scope about him trying to sell the club that he never owned behind Kats back have turned my stomach.

 

Was he going to sell the club he didnt own and then take the bags of cash and jewells to "clock land"

 

Cortese the sneaky deceitful artful dodger.

 

Ill put this new exclusive in the drawer with "Les Reed signed Lambert" and we cant be successful in 2017 as we weren't successfully in 1965

 

#welimpon #cuckoo

 

[Dalek2003]

Even Cortese when he was here spoke about doing things "our way" and not just chucking money about, so the idea that Markus and Cortese would have been on some Man City style free spending bonanza is completely baseless.

 

I think people need to get a fuc king grip. We finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th - the idea that that was going to go on and on forever and ever with us finishing ever higher and higher and never ever dropping back to our perfectly normal level is laughable.

 

Southampton Football Club might finish mid table. What a disgrace. Jesus fu cking wept.

 

Its Les that has taken the expectations up so high with two outstanding seasons when we finished seventh and then sixth. As far as this forum goes, those seasons are the biggest mistake he ever made.

 

If we finish mid table, fine. But, the arrogance and complacency that you show is breath taking. Relegation is always a possibility in a club like SFC. I have warned of this and have been a lone voice in the darkness but now people are acknowledging that I was right.

[hackedoff]

When have we started to "rework" that "method" then? We didn't sell anyone in the summer and have double-digit million pound players in every area of the pitch and on the bench.

 

Our attack might be sh ite but they don't represent the "minimum outlay" on any measure, anywhere.

 

Fu cking drips on this forum.

 

Ever tried fishing Fry ? It,s quite easy, just get the right bait in the right place and you are sure to catch.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Even Cortese when he was here spoke about doing things "our way" and not just chucking money about, so the idea that Markus and Cortese would have been on some Man City style free spending bonanza is completely baseless.

 

I think people need to get a fuc king grip. We finished 8th, 7th, 6th, 8th - the idea that that was going to go on and on forever and ever with us finishing ever higher and higher and never ever dropping back to our perfectly normal level is laughable.

 

Southampton Football Club might finish mid table. What a disgrace. Jesus fu cking wept.

 

Its Les that has taken the expectations up so high with two outstanding seasons when we finished seventh and then sixth. As far as this forum goes, those seasons are the biggest mistake he ever made.

 

CB, that is a top post...

[alpine_saint]

For me it’s relatively obvious, our current malaise stems from us meekly surrendering the strongest position the club has ever been in following the 2015/6 season. In the space of a couple of weeks we had:

 

- lost our manager

- sold our two best attackers

- lost the bedrock of our midfield

 

Add to that our appointment of a “off the wall” managerial choice at the expense of more established options that were supposedly keen to join us, a chronic lack of investment and a lingering takeover. No club of our size has any hope of dealing with all that in a single season.

 

Weeeelll, yes, that was the trigger for the downturn.

 

But the complacent/arrogant culture of "we can sell our best players, and handle the disruption of managerial change" was established 2 years previous when SRL, Lallana, Lovren and Pochettino left within a few weeks and we bounced back spectacularly under Koeman, Pelle et al...

 

And that happened because Cortese had quit a few months before.

 

Seriously, Wreck-it-Ralph cannot hold a candle to Cortese for driving the club forwards and onwards.

[doddisalegend]

Ok question let's say that people are right and nik-nak stayed, poch stayed and none of those players left that first summer after nik-nak quit were do people think saints would be now? Regular top 6, regular top 4, champions league regulars, how many trophies?

 

Would we have ever seen the likes of Mane and VVD or gone for different players?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Weeeelll, yes, that was the trigger for the downturn.

 

But the complacent/arrogant culture of "we can sell our best players, and handle the disruption of managerial change" was established 2 years previous when SRL, Lallana, Lovren and Pochettino left within a few weeks and we bounced back spectacularly under Koeman, Pelle et al...

 

And that happened because Cortese had quit a few months before.

 

Seriously, Wreck-it-Ralph cannot hold a candle to Cortese for driving the club forwards and onwards.

 

Why you childishly persist with the stupid insults is pathetic...

and please tell how he`s wrecked anything...

[LGTL]

Summer transfer window of 2016 has got a lot of mentions. Anyone got our full set of ins and outs of that window to hand?

 

I wonder what percentage of the ins get in our first XI now?

 

In:

Boufal

Hojbjerg

Redmond

McCarthy

Pied

Taylor

 

Out:

Pelle

Mane

Wanyama

Juanmi

Ramirez

Gazzaniga

[shurlock]

Ok question let's say that people are right and nik-nak stayed, poch stayed and none of those players left that first summer after nik-nak quit were do people think saints would be now? Regular top 6, regular top 4, champions league regulars, how many trophies?

 

Would we have ever seen the likes of Mane and VVD or gone for different players?

 

Depends whether in this far-fetched hypothetical we would have added to the squad. Our number one weakness under Poch was our lack of pace which was made worse by Jrod’s injury. In principle, we would have brought in a pacier player like Mané in the summer 2014 window.

[hypochondriac]

In:

Boufal

Hojbjerg

Redmond

McCarthy

Pied

Taylor

 

Out:

Pelle

Mane

Wanyama

Juanmi

Ramirez

Gazzaniga

 

With hindsight that is a terrible window.

[Sheaf Saint]

In:

Boufal

Hojbjerg

Redmond

McCarthy

Pied

Taylor

 

Out:

Pelle

Mane

Wanyama

Juanmi

Ramirez

Gazzaniga

 

That's pretty damming. The only one of those arrivals who has become a regular starter is Redmond, and he hasn't exactly set the PL alight has he.

 

In fairness, we had high expectations of Boufal, and PEH came with high hopes that he could flourish in the PL, but as yet he hasn't. He may still mature into a decent player but I fear he will have moved on from us before that ever happens.

 

The rest were only signed as squad players anyway.

[Heisenberg]

What, are you joking? People went mad the summer we lost pretty much all of our squad. Even Brendan Rodgers pointed out our ambition had changed.

 

We got lucky with Koeman, he was the right man at the right time for us. We still had a number of Mitchell's targets on the black box and I think Koeman had a clear idea of who and what he wanted to bring in.

 

I've always said our transfer strategy is risky and that one day it would come back to bite us. It now has. Ironically, the season we refused to have a clear out is the worst we've had.

 

Also, I'm not moaning that Cortese left. As you can see from my next sentence, I said we couldn't continue as we were under him.

 

I think Always is right this time - when Cortese left nobody was worried or complaining or predicting any kind of meltdown or player exodus.

 

The papers reported a little bit but Reed sure did show them.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 7 November, 2017 by Heisenberg

[doddisalegend]

With hindsight that is a terrible window.

 

 

In hindsight? Plenty of us pointing how **** it was last season when people tried to put everything on Puel. In hindsight you could say 8th and cup final wasn't a bad return for a dire summer.

[doddisalegend]

Depends whether in this far-fetched hypothetical we would have added to the squad. Our number one weakness under Poch was our lack of pace which was made worse by Jrod’s injury. In principle, we would have brought in a pacier player like Mané in the summer 2014 window.

 

 

Pace? That would have been Shane Long then.

[angelman]

I dont see, and have never seen, exactly WTF Krueger has brought to the club. He certainly isnt Cortese, driving the club forwards.

 

Is Kreuger still at the club???

Edited 7 November, 2017 by angelman

[SKD]

In hindsight? Plenty of us pointing how **** it was last season when people tried to put everything on Puel. In hindsight you could say 8th and cup final wasn't a bad return for a dire summer.

 

No one has said 8th and a cup final was a bad return though, have they.

 

Peoples issues with Puel weren't final league position. They were his negative style, poor form the back end of last season (continued now into this season, due to a poor managerial appointment by Les), European results and play unrest.

[DuncanRG]

In:

Boufal

Hojbjerg

Redmond

McCarthy

Pied

Taylor

 

Out:

Pelle

Mane

Wanyama

Juanmi

Ramirez

Gazzaniga

 

We should acknowledge that Austin and Romeu had already arrived as replacements for Pelle and Wanyama. Mixed success on that front, but still.

[shurlock]

We should acknowledge that Austin and Romeu had already arrived as replacements for Pelle and Wanyama. Mixed success on that front, but still.

 

Was Romeu for Cork or Schneiderlin? Either way, Clasie has been a huge disappointed, so our midfield has been short-handed in one form or another..

[alpine_saint]

In:

Boufal

Hojbjerg

Redmond

McCarthy

Pied

Taylor

 

Out:

Pelle

Mane

Wanyama

Juanmi

Ramirez

Gazzaniga

 

This was clearly the incident in which the white flag was run up the flagpole, but it wasnt the trigger. The more we discuss, the more I feel it was Markus's death.

[alpine_saint]

Is Kreuger still at the club???

 

Exactly.

[DuncanRG]

Was Romeu for Cork or Schneiderlin? Either way, Clasie has been a huge disappointed, so our midfield has been short-handed in one form or another..

 

Clasie was seen as the Schneiderlin replacement and Cork was a bit of a spare part when he left. Reed said in one of those behind-the-scenes videos that we were ready for Wanyama to leave because we had Romeu in as a replacement.

[GGalpin]

Was Romeu for Cork or Schneiderlin? Either way, Clasie has been a huge disappointed, so our midfield has been short-handed in one form or another..

 

I'd hazard a guess at Harrison Reed was pushed forward at the time to replace Cork, Romeu for Wanyama and Clasie for Schneiderlin (and then Hojbjerg when Clasie wasn't a big success), before Morgan was eventually replaced adequately by Lemina.

 

Not the best replacement job Saints have done last few years.