Dusic Posted 5 November, 2017 Share Posted 5 November, 2017 It seems pretty clear this will be our worst PL season since we got promoted, and certainly a major drop in league position versus the last four seasons. Given the complete **** up we have made of such a kind start, many will feel that just avoiding relegation would be a decent outcome from her as we will almost certainly be in the shake up at Christmas. So, when do people think the decline began? A few possibles as follows: 1. Koeman being easily tempted away after we finished 6th. No question that he would have done a better job than Puel or Pellegrino despite the PR mudslinging in the aftermath of his departure. His departure signalled that our ambition wasn't especially strong although he had a few poor runs of form along the way. 2. Poor managerial appointments from Les Reed. For a team that had just finished 6th in the PL we simply didnt need to take such a risk as Puel represented. Does Reed place too many restrictions on Managers, meaning better ones aren't interested? He admitted his mistake by firing Puel after one season but now looks to have made an even worse call. 3. Failure to replace the goals of Mane and Pelle. Its clear our issue is in the final third and we simply didnt replace the output of these players. Both Puel and Pellegrino have a squad with few recognised goalscorers and it really hampers them. To say Austin was Pelle's replacement was odd as we already had him and neither Redmond nor Boufal look near scoring 10 PL goals, let alone matching Mane's record. That we were so poor in front of goal last season and didnt sign a sigle attacker in the window is borderline insanity. 4. Losing Paul Mitchell and bringing in Ross Wilson. Wee Ross definitely has a lower success rate but how much does he actually decide? 5. Selling the soul of the team. This season is terrible for fans getting on the back of players who already lack confidence and it definitely doesn't help. There seems no real connection between the fans and the players because so many are open about Saints just being a stepping stone club and we now have only Davis & JWP of the Pochettino era which I think had a strong bond with the fans. 6. The ludicrously awful My Way song. We have got worse with each airing of it. In truth it is probably a combination of all the above, maybe minus the song, but the biggest factor for me would be the awful replacements for Mane and Pelle's goals. Puel would have had a much fairer chance to suceed if this had been done properly and would likely still be in charge. He was majorly hamstrung with the squad he inherited and Pellegrino has been given the same pool of attackers that didn't produce for Puel. The rest of our team functions pretty well but we are so clueless in the final third and that also puts pressure on the defence as unless we keep a clean sheet we never win. I think Reed started believing the club PR a bit too much and tried to be too clever and it could backfire spectacularly for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 5 November, 2017 Share Posted 5 November, 2017 #3 & subsequently our recruitment team not thinking we had a problem there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 5 November, 2017 Share Posted 5 November, 2017 After the success of Koeman's first season we seemed to run on empty for quite a time the following season although turned it around after exiting the FA Cup when FF came back in and we went on a run for the remainder of the season, possibly papering over a few cracks in the process. Certainly poor managerial decisions, Koeman going (perhaps we were right to not allow him to go into the last year of his contract), and subsequent selections. Transfer policy - we've been crying out for a goalscorer for two seasons, and although we eventually signed Gabbiadini we certainly don't seem to be able to utilise him to the maximum. The CB situation last season was poor, and our failure to recruit a decent GK haunts us every week. Possibly the loss of Mitchell. I'd also add that the club seemed to be drifting without leadership or direction whilst the potential sale was in the background for about 12 months. Whether this uncertainty petered down through the club I don't know, but gut feel was that something was not right, and people were not as focused as might have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 5 November, 2017 Share Posted 5 November, 2017 Writing has been on the wall for a long time. Started going down hill once Cortese left. Momentum carried us for couple of years but now seeing the fruits of Reeds labour. Kat and Reed were too focused on profits and lining pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 5 November, 2017 Share Posted 5 November, 2017 Writing has been on the wall for a long time. Started going down hill once Cortese left. Momentum carried us for couple of years but now seeing the fruits of Reeds labour. Kat and Reed were too focused on profits and lining pockets. You won’t be popular, but you are probably correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 5 November, 2017 Share Posted 5 November, 2017 Soon as Les decided has responsible for everything, live by the sword die by the sword, time for him to f*** off and take black with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Just think its our way of playing football, we have the personnel and our first XI is pretty strong when all fit etc, even our bench isnt too bad for a club with our finances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 It was going pretty good until Koeman left. You could make a case that we could have moved forward with Puel, but he was rightly sacked. If he had got us into the Europa knockout stages I reckon the clamour for him to go wouldn't have been half as bad so I am going to say it started going wrong when Hapoel scored and blew his 0-0 strategy out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimatt Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 (edited) The big failure was the 2016 summer. The club changed strategy with a view to sign young unpolished players, shifting from Koeman's demands for players that instantly had an impact. We made a good manager appointment in Puel who has a history of developing younger players. We spent all our Mane/Pelle money on young "potential" players in Boufal/Redmond/Hojbjerg. Unfortunately the three of them haven't delivered at the level we need. The club needs to decide whether they want to continue this strategy and build/nurture this young team with a view of challenging the top 7 in 3 or 4 years, or whether to cut their losses and buy some ready-made players like Koeman did. Edited 6 November, 2017 by Ultimatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Complacency. Some of us warned about it, but the Club began to take its status in Premier League for granted. Hence a combination of all of the above factors. I also think, that as long as we stay in PL then the board will be reasonably happy, but it is easier to be relegated than some might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morse Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Selling the best players and not replacing them, Mane in particular. The appointment of consecutive managers who are too cautions to bring out the best in the younger players, massive drop in form of Forster, and a board who want to run a transfer budget surplus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Where? Southampton. When? When either Cortese left and his work began to unravel or when Les Reed's obvious limitations became more apparent. Despite what those who defend him say the success is probably very little down to him and more down to a large number of factors including luck e.g. had we not had Koeman would we have been able to attract Mane in the first place? He wasn't that keen on us as he did apparently look to move on and up after his first year with us and moved pretty damn quick at the end of the second i.e. we gave him his shop window. Unlike VVD, however, he made the most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Has it gone wrong? Feels more like the natural progression of things its not like we were going to become the 7th big club in the PL or Champions League stalwarts. All those 6,7,8th placed finishes were unlikely to be achieved season in season out. Bigger clubs than saints like Everton and Newcastle have been trying, unsuccessfully, to break the top six for years and never made much of a dent. The reality is despite having some good seasons we are just another Stoke, WHU or West Brom we will have good seasons and bad seasons. Depressing though it might be like the fans if all those teams our best hope is a one off style Leicester season or a good cup run to inject a bit of fun into a season in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 The day we employed Eric Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGalpin Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 This is a pretty fair assessment, rather than blaming a first team coach whose influence was diminished this summer not strengthened: http://www.football365.com/news/saints-lack-of-pace-leaves-them-mired-in-midtableland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 This is a pretty fair assessment, rather than blaming a first team coach whose influence was diminished this summer not strengthened: http://www.football365.com/news/saints-lack-of-pace-leaves-them-mired-in-midtableland Seems like a pretty fair write up. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 A lot of good points made on here. I think that ML and NC gave the club such a massive impulse in progress that a lot of the highs are directly attributable to them, and momentum carried us forwards to the PL 6th place. However, things were already going wrong, such as the yearly summer picking off of our best players; there was no way we were going to be continue to sustain the success in replacing them. In this sense, the sale of Pelle and Mane were the straws that broke the camels back. I think Reed thinks he has a Midas touch and has become so believing of his own hype and complacent, that this led to the back-to-back appointmnet of Puel and Pellegrino, which is proving to be the kiss of death for the club. In addition, Mitchell has gone and the black box seems to have ceased to exist. I dont see, and have never seen, exactly WTF Krueger has brought to the club. He certainly isnt Cortese, driving the club forwards. I really wonder what would be different if Markus were still with us. He seemed to be happy to indulge Cortese, and Cortese was clearly unwilling to settle for anything but the best, and would not have tolerated failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSaint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Writing has been on the wall for a long time. Started going down hill once Cortese left. Momentum carried us for couple of years but now seeing the fruits of Reeds labour. Kat and Reed were too focused on profits and lining pockets. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Since Marcus and Nicola’s respective demises, the passion and emotional dimension of leadership at the club has gone. We are just another humdrum business now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 It seems pretty clear this will be our worst PL season since we got promoted, and certainly a major drop in league position versus the last four seasons. Given the complete **** up we have made of such a kind start, many will feel that just avoiding relegation would be a decent outcome from her as we will almost certainly be in the shake up at Christmas. So, when do people think the decline began? A few possibles as follows: 1. Koeman being easily tempted away after we finished 6th. No question that he would have done a better job than Puel or Pellegrino despite the PR mudslinging in the aftermath of his departure. His departure signalled that our ambition wasn't especially strong although he had a few poor runs of form along the way. 2. Poor managerial appointments from Les Reed. For a team that had just finished 6th in the PL we simply didnt need to take such a risk as Puel represented. Does Reed place too many restrictions on Managers, meaning better ones aren't interested? He admitted his mistake by firing Puel after one season but now looks to have made an even worse call. 3. Failure to replace the goals of Mane and Pelle. Its clear our issue is in the final third and we simply didnt replace the output of these players. Both Puel and Pellegrino have a squad with few recognised goalscorers and it really hampers them. To say Austin was Pelle's replacement was odd as we already had him and neither Redmond nor Boufal look near scoring 10 PL goals, let alone matching Mane's record. That we were so poor in front of goal last season and didnt sign a sigle attacker in the window is borderline insanity. 4. Losing Paul Mitchell and bringing in Ross Wilson. Wee Ross definitely has a lower success rate but how much does he actually decide? 5. Selling the soul of the team. This season is terrible for fans getting on the back of players who already lack confidence and it definitely doesn't help. There seems no real connection between the fans and the players because so many are open about Saints just being a stepping stone club and we now have only Davis & JWP of the Pochettino era which I think had a strong bond with the fans. 6. The ludicrously awful My Way song. We have got worse with each airing of it. In truth it is probably a combination of all the above, maybe minus the song, but the biggest factor for me would be the awful replacements for Mane and Pelle's goals. Puel would have had a much fairer chance to suceed if this had been done properly and would likely still be in charge. He was majorly hamstrung with the squad he inherited and Pellegrino has been given the same pool of attackers that didn't produce for Puel. The rest of our team functions pretty well but we are so clueless in the final third and that also puts pressure on the defence as unless we keep a clean sheet we never win. I think Reed started believing the club PR a bit too much and tried to be too clever and it could backfire spectacularly for him. It started going wrong when deluded fans believed the hype that we were on our way to be a Champions League Team which was as likely as you starting to **** gold bars. I have been supporting the Saints for nearly sixty years and during that time we have had a few fine teams and played well but mostly we have been average and sometimes downright poor and that no doubt is the way it is going to stay. The only way it can change is if somebody wants to regularly invest huge amounts of money or the club invests in a clairvoyant to oversee transfers . It would be nice to be a top club winning regularly but we are not it is very difficult to replace top attacking players who want to come to SFC so please stop blaming everybody and get behind the team because in the long run it does not help as can be seen by the decision to blame Puel for last season when in my opinion the fact that the forwards kept missing chances and Forster was not reliable were the major reasons for our poor form at the end of the season. I don't think Pellegrino is a good manager and I think we should have sold VVD and perhaps spent the money on an attacker but in general most of our signings have been OK but nothing special but the real problem is we are not developing top class players from our Academy over the last twenty years Cheer Up we are not as bad as we were when we went down in 2005 although we did have a better goalie then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Writing has been on the wall for a long time. Started going down hill once Cortese left. Momentum carried us for couple of years but now seeing the fruits of Reeds labour. Kat and Reed were too focused on profits and lining pockets. A bigger problem than Cortese going was not replacing him. We have lacked a leader ever since and Reed is now responsible for far more than his is competent to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Where did it all start to go wrong? https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/nicola-cortese-southampton-exit-manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Where did it all start to go wrong? https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/nicola-cortese-southampton-exit-manager Hard to argue against. However, the writing was on the wall when Markus died; KL simply wasnt that into it and didnt have the personal relationship with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Pretty sure the "struggling with goals" problem started towards the end of the Koeman era. I'm not sure things will improve on that front with him in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Thinking that we could continue to get Players like Mane, Van Dyk, Pelle amongst others & producing Lallanas, Chamberlains & Shaws...... How many academy products started on Saturday?? We didn’t evolve...... We believed in all the Southampton way ********. How many players do we have in all of the England u21’s & younger squads?? One! Sims is the only one who really looks the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 A bit early to be writing obituaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Where did it all start to go wrong? https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/nicola-cortese-southampton-exit-manager Except we went from strength to strength after this, finishing higher and higher in the table and getting to a major cup final and qualifying for Europe, something that maybe Nicola will achieve at his next football club. The root of our issues now stem from Summer 2016 and we haven't recovered from the likes of Redmond and Boufal not becoming the hidden gems we needed them to be. If either of them had become a Mane-style breakthrough then we'd have been in business again. Neither look anywhere near that now. We can see now how Puel actually over delivered, and we can certainly see that MP is way, way, way below the standard and doing worse than Claude with no of the obstacles and a better squad on paper. Summer 2017, despite being the only one where we didn't sell anyone, has turned out to be a catastrophe of how not to sack a manager and how not to appoint a replacement. It's looking like this summer will be the worst of all. Funny old world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 When we sold Mane and Pelle in the same window. Club felt Austin was the replacement for Pelle, but he's never looked a good fit for us - so we've been a striker down since then and without a focal point, so it's no surprise really. I don't like Gabbi as a lone striker, that is not his game at all. He should be playing 2nd striker or support striker to a proper focal point - someone like Deeney, Dost etc - that sort of player (that's not advocating player hoofball, but having the ability to get the ball to stick will enable the rest of the team to move forward a lot quicker) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Except we went from strength to strength after this, finishing higher and higher in the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 It started going wrong when deluded fans believed the hype that we were on our way to be a Champions League Team which was as likely as you starting to **** gold bars. I have been supporting the Saints for nearly sixty years and during that time we have had a few fine teams and played well but mostly we have been average and sometimes downright poor and that no doubt is the way it is going to stay. The only way it can change is if somebody wants to regularly invest huge amounts of money or the club invests in a clairvoyant to oversee transfers . It would be nice to be a top club winning regularly but we are not it is very difficult to replace top attacking players who want to come to SFC so please stop blaming everybody and get behind the team because in the long run it does not help as can be seen by the decision to blame Puel for last season when in my opinion the fact that the forwards kept missing chances and Forster was not reliable were the major reasons for our poor form at the end of the season. I don't think Pellegrino is a good manager and I think we should have sold VVD and perhaps spent the money on an attacker but in general most of our signings have been OK but nothing special but the real problem is we are not developing top class players from our Academy over the last twenty years Cheer Up we are not as bad as we were when we went down in 2005 although we did have a better goalie then This. Too many are punch drunk on a few good years where we probably over achieved. History will tell you that we are probably a mid to lower mid premier league team and whether you like that or not it is true. To break into the upper echelons requires more than just a little investment and is beyond most owners means. Some of the comments with regard to the owners making money are quite disingenuous - why do you think they bought the club. Have they invested - yes they have. Have they improved us since the takeover - yes massively. But they made no secret of the fact that to take the next step is very difficult - if they don't have the funds, fair enough, we suck it up, live within our means. Or we could go bust again of course. I've been to most of the games this season and we haven't been great, but then again, we haven't been really bad either (apart from Watford maybe). At the end of last season I knew that there was no way we were going to improve on our league position and I stand by that now. We are what we are, pretty much an average run of the mill premier team, no more, no less - we will have our ups and downs. Just had 3 years of ups, whose sticking around for the downs, or are we all leaving on 81 minutes, just like Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren2 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Cant help but feel that Eric Black is the common denominator.... We were cr*p last year, and despite sacking the manager, nothing has changed.... The only carry over is Eric. If the players aren't showing any motivation, it's up to the manager and his staff to get them motivated. Every team he's been with has either been relegated (Motherwell 2002 ®, Coventry (L1) 20/24, Birmingham 2007/8 ®, Blackburn 2012 ®, Rotherham (L1) 21st/23, Aston Villa ®or he's be relieved of duties (Coventry, and Sunderland 2 points clear of relegation (Sunderland had a good finish to 13th after he went)) while in a relegation battle. Ok, his clubs sold players while there, but Eric always seems to find himself in this situation. Maybe the players do like him, but I'd like my boss if he gave me an easy life too...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Except we went from strength to strength after this, finishing higher and higher in the table and getting to a major cup final and qualifying for Europe, something that maybe Nicola will achieve at his next football club. The root of our issues now stem from Summer 2016 and we haven't recovered from the likes of Redmond and Boufal not becoming the hidden gems we needed them to be. If either of them had become a Mane-style breakthrough then we'd have been in business again. Neither look anywhere near that now. We can see now how Puel actually over delivered, and we can certainly see that MP is way, way, way below the standard and doing worse than Claude with no of the obstacles and a better squad on paper. Summer 2017, despite being the only one where we didn't sell anyone, has turned out to be a catastrophe of how not to sack a manager and how not to appoint a replacement. It's looking like this summer will be the worst of all. Funny old world. Unfortunately I disagree. The club had momentum prior to that change. We have completley lost it in its absence. What we achieved after NC and MoPo left is not what we would have achieved with them here. Yet we still rode the crest of that momentum and finished strongly under Koeman. What follows thereafter is failure after failure and an ever worsening outlook as a club. Something needs to change, or we will limp on like this before joining many a mid table club that has dabbled at the top end before eventual mid table apathy and relegation. That is my thoughts anyway, and its all in the past so nothing anyone can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 If I had made some of the comments above two or three years ago I would have been shot down. I was a realist and so now are many others. I and a few lone voices warned of complacency, but we have company now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 If I had made some of the comments above two or three years ago I would have been shot down. I was a realist and so now are many others. I and a few lone voices warned of complacency, but we have company now. I personally steer clear of the "i told you so" message. Not my style I genuinely hoped Reed would prove me wrong... Reed has been in the game 55 years... Useless as a player useless as a manager and now fairly useless at steering the great SFC ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Complacency. Some of us warned about it, but the Club began to take its status in Premier League for granted. Hence a combination of all of the above factors. I also think, that as long as we stay in PL then the board will be reasonably happy, but it is easier to be relegated than some might think. thats weird i actually agree with Dalek to much hype, advertising, clackers etc and forgetting that the whole success depends on the first team, without that it all falls down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 When Pochettino left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 #3 & subsequently our recruitment team not thinking we had a problem there. Number 3 for me as well, pace, directness and power, all now missing from our forward line. Not adequately replaced, meaning we have a very technical, accomplished side of very similar players, all of similar size ( at least going forward) that makes us very predictable and thus very easy to plan to stop. Plus we have no real counter attack ability. We've made some good signings since that summer, but those signings were defensive/defensive mid, our back 6 excluding Forster is up there with anything the top 6 has. Our forward 4 are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 I personally steer clear of the "i told you so" message. Not my style I genuinely hoped Reed would prove me wrong... Reed has been in the game 55 years... Useless as a player useless as a manager and now fairly useless at steering the great SFC ship He's only 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 As many have already indicated it started going wrong with the Pelle and Mane sales in the same summer. Now they bought in Austin, ok, not the same sort of player as Pelle so I never really got the replacement thing. What I think went wrong was when Shane Long had his purple patch of goalscoring the powers at be thought "we are ok here, Shane will be our regular goalscorer now" and of course anyone looking at his record will know that Long is just not a consistent, regular goalscorer. He will work his guts out and trouble defenders but its not the same as finding the net. The recruitment, whether its Ross Wilson or not I dont know, but to think that a player like Redmond who hadnt exactly set the Championship alight with Norwich was going to come in and fill the Mane role is plain stupid. They heaped more pressure on him - well Puel did - with this ridiculous Thierry Henry comparison. Hes a winger who doesnt like getting to the touchine therefore he isnt a very good one. His constant cutting in and they losing the ball gets on my tits - cant the coaching staff see it ffs ? I dont know what Eric Black does. But if you are a club that has finished in the top 8 of the Premier League for three seasons in a row why on earth would you bring in someone who has such an appalling record at every single club he has been it. Thats not just bad luck or coincidence, thats him not being very bloody good at whatever he does. Did he come in cos he spoke French ? **** me Michel Roux Jnr speaks French, he would have been as much use !! Believing their own publicity. The media team are wonderful at this club.....well they are either wonderful or off their tits on something. This latest mini series where it proclaims we produce world class players, are always improving blah blah blah is quite frankly embarrassing. At present we are boring and not very good. Everyone knows it, there is no point trying to fool us all with propaganda. That and the bloody constant shooting practice videos they put up on Social Media, they are making themselves look ridiculous. Tone it down until we are half decent again ffs. The young guy who does a lot of comment pieces on Read Southampton - Luke Osman - he wrote a piece about MP before we appointed him stating defence was the most important thing to him, we must not lose at any cost and the football he played was cautious. Alarm bells started ringing at that cos this was Puel all over again. But no, the club assured us MP liked to play they high energy pressing game with plenty of attacking flair, he had the ability and was not frightened of changing things early on in a match if the original plan wasnt working - in other words he was just what we needed. For those in any doubt we now know without fear of contradiction that Osman was spot on and the PR machine had sold us a lot of b/s and more importantly had made themselves look ****s....again ! The only hope is the new owners arent happy and changes are made but I have my doubts, i think they will just be looking at the bank balance and how much VVD, Bertrand, Lemina and Cedric will bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Unfortunately I disagree. The club had momentum prior to that change. We have completley lost it in its absence. What we achieved after NC and MoPo left is not what we would have achieved with them here. Yet we still rode the crest of that momentum and finished strongly under Koeman. What follows thereafter is failure after failure and an ever worsening outlook as a club. Something needs to change, or we will limp on like this before joining many a mid table club that has dabbled at the top end before eventual mid table apathy and relegation. That is my thoughts anyway, and its all in the past so nothing anyone can do about it. For success the club needs good and exciting players most of these would not want to come to Southampton so the only way is to get in decent players and hope they develop into stars but over the last few years only a few have done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Cant help but feel that Eric Black is the common denominator.... We were cr*p last year, and despite sacking the manager, nothing has changed.... The only carry over is Eric. If the players aren't showing any motivation, it's up to the manager and his staff to get them motivated. Every team he's been with has either been relegated (Motherwell 2002 ®, Coventry (L1) 20/24, Birmingham 2007/8 ®, Blackburn 2012 ®, Rotherham (L1) 21st/23, Aston Villa ®or he's be relieved of duties (Coventry, and Sunderland 2 points clear of relegation (Sunderland had a good finish to 13th after he went)) while in a relegation battle. Ok, his clubs sold players while there, but Eric always seems to find himself in this situation. Maybe the players do like him, but I'd like my boss if he gave me an easy life too...... I am really surprised that MP hasn't brought in his own backroom staff? Working with people that he trusts and who understand his way of things would be pretty crucial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 In answer to the OP - after the euphoria of promotion and the first two seasons subsided and reality kicked in is the answer, plus financial fair play. Before us it was Swansea for a couple of seasons then their manager (Rodgers) and all the best players have been taken by the top 6 - Bony, Sigurdsson, Ashley Williams etc. All our leavers are well documented on here. Now it is Burnley, Watford, Huddersfield and Brighton that have the optimism and have yet to reach the glass ceiling of 7th and have all their assets taken to sit on the benches of the top 6. Thereafter the cycle is on the downwards curve as the next lot of teams come through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintoaks Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Its started to go wrong when Puel was appointed and decided to change the formation of the side up front. Koeman inherited the formation from the previous manager but made us a little more direct getting the ball up top quicker. Claude Puel totally changed it by taking out the front man who came looking for the ball and would hold it up for the midfield to release mane or whoever. This created more chances and more goals. Since then as we've experienced it's been utter tripe. The reason Puel did this was because he said the way we were playing would knacker us out with the amount of games we would have (or not) with Europe etc.. Best thing we can do is get a Pelle type player in the Xmas window. Simple reason really but only us fans see it not the management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy40 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 I am really surprised that MP hasn't brought in his own backroom staff? Working with people that he trusts and who understand his way of things would be pretty crucial Me too, it's very unusual to have not done this. Conspiracy theory could point to the club having a lack of faith in his skills so keeping some of the old guard in place, maybe his coaching team didn't want to move to the UK, or 'X Files' level he was never our first choice and rather than getting in a whole new management 'package' we had to settle for just the Plan B manager on his own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Think the OP sums it up pretty well. For me, if we are lucky enough to survive this season, a big clear out is needed of Staff and players. Starting with Les and Ross. Rightly or wrongly I think the clubs ambition did change once Cortese walked/was sacked. However, that being said, at that time, we couldn't continue spending like we were and there does now appear to be a better (more family) feel about the club (excluding performances). We've become complacent, arrogant and a bit naive. As feared our high risk strategy has come back to bite us (you cannot expect to sell your best players every single season and maintain the same performance). It only take 3 or 4 bad windows for us to be in real trouble, as shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint97 Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Selling Mane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKD Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 I am really surprised that MP hasn't brought in his own backroom staff? Working with people that he trusts and who understand his way of things would be pretty crucial He has? Carlos Compagnucci (Assistant Manager) & Xavier Tamarit (Assistant Coach) came with him. Eric black was 'demoted' to 'Senior First Team Coach' and Dave Watson promoted to 'Head of Goalkeeping' How much Influence Black now has I don't know, however I do know he's generally not well thought of as a coach, has had a dubious track record and a certain ex captain of ours and some other players, still here, didn't like him (although this captain was also a d!ck following international success, so take that with a pinch of salt). I thought it was a strange appointment at the time and even stranger that he didn't go this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Think the OP sums it up pretty well. For me, if we are lucky enough to survive this season, a big clear out is needed of Staff and players. Starting with Les and Ross. Rightly or wrongly I think the clubs ambition did change once Cortese walked/was sacked. However, that being said, at that time, we couldn't continue spending like we were and there does now appear to be a better (more family) feel about the club (excluding performances). We've become complacent, arrogant and a bit naive. As feared our high risk strategy has come back to bite us (you cannot expect to sell your best players every single season and maintain the same performance). It only take 3 or 4 bad windows for us to be in real trouble, as shown. Were you and as many people complaining then as they are now.... doubt it as we were still doing well and recorded our highest ever PL finish.. Hindsight is wonderful isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 Think the OP sums it up pretty well. For me, if we are lucky enough to survive this season, a big clear out is needed of Staff and players. Starting with Les and Ross. Rightly or wrongly I think the clubs ambition did change once Cortese walked/was sacked. However, that being said, at that time, we couldn't continue spending like we were and there does now appear to be a better (more family) feel about the club (excluding performances). We've become complacent, arrogant and a bit naive. As feared our high risk strategy has come back to bite us (you cannot expect to sell your best players every single season and maintain the same performance). It only take 3 or 4 bad windows for us to be in real trouble, as shown. Would want to agree, but when have we ever seen this happen in football...just wont happen unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted 6 November, 2017 Share Posted 6 November, 2017 A lot of good points made on here. I think that ML and NC gave the club such a massive impulse in progress that a lot of the highs are directly attributable to them, and momentum carried us forwards to the PL 6th place. However, things were already going wrong, such as the yearly summer picking off of our best players; there was no way we were going to be continue to sustain the success in replacing them. In this sense, the sale of Pelle and Mane were the straws that broke the camels back. I think Reed thinks he has a Midas touch and has become so believing of his own hype and complacent, that this led to the back-to-back appointmnet of Puel and Pellegrino, which is proving to be the kiss of death for the club. In addition, Mitchell has gone and the black box seems to have ceased to exist. I dont see, and have never seen, exactly WTF Krueger has brought to the club. He certainly isnt Cortese, driving the club forwards. I really wonder what would be different if Markus were still with us. He seemed to be happy to indulge Cortese, and Cortese was clearly unwilling to settle for anything but the best, and would not have tolerated failure. great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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