The Players or the Manager?

[nta786]

Simply put, who do we attribute the blame for our goalscoring woes this season and the last?

 

Is Pellegrino to blame for our problems? Did he tell the players to sit back after the first goal? Equally, was it Puel's fault last season too- have both managers suggested we play sideways football with no penetration- and as such lead us to the problem of not being able to score in game?

OR

Is it the players who seem incapable of playing to the high standards shown in 2015-16? Are the players just not good enough? Redmond has been terrible, Tadic shows more theatrics than he does football recently, Boufal inconsistent (certainly not had the impact Mane had with us), Bertrand and VVD appear to both be on the beach, Forster who seems to have forgotten how to stop goals- so is it the case that both Puel and Pellegrino have both been dealt bad hands that have made their stints with us worse than what they have previously achieved?

 

So basically, are the players just terrible whereby even with Guardiola in charge we would be in our current state of affairs, or have they been coached into crap the past two seasons?

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

P.S. Plot Twist: It's all Les Reed's fault for his handling in recruitment of both players and manager alike

Edited 29 October, 2017 by nta786

[tobes8]

Les is totally to blame for this balls up. We’ve gone from

Playing attracted attacking football to the dire turgid crab football of the last 2 seasons under les reeds watch. Puel was a defensive manager so to make one mistake could be forgiven but to sign a manager who’s only real achievement was to guide alaves to a mid table position playing a defensive style isn’t acceptable. He either didn’t perform effective due diligence on these managers, missed out on his chosen targets, wouldn’t pay what they wanted or went for a cheap option. But another season of uninspiring football continues.

[Donatello]

Simply put, who do we attribute the blame for our goalscoring woes this season and the last?

 

Is Pellegrino to blame for our problems? Did he tell the players to sit back after the first goal? Equally, was it Puel's fault last season too- have both managers suggested we play sideways football with no penetration- and as such lead us to the problem of not being able to score in game?

OR

Is it the players who seem incapable of playing to the high standards shown in 2015-16? Are the players just not good enough? Redmond has been terrible, Tadic shows more theatrics than he does football recently, Boufal inconsistent (certainly not had the impact Mane had with us), Bertrand and VVD appear to both be on the beach, Forster who seems to have forgotten how to stop goals- so is it the case that both Puel and Pellegrino have both been dealt bad hands that have made their stints with us worse than what they have previously achieved?

 

So basically, are the players just terrible whereby even with Guardiola in charge we would be in our current state of affairs, or have they been coached into crap the past two seasons?

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

 

P.S. Plot Twist: It's all Les Reed's fault for his handling in recruitment of both players and manager alike

 

Apparently not, if you listen to the post-match with Adam Blackmore. There is of course the potential that having been coached for a year is possession/low risk tactics, that there is a hangover (not a dig at Puel as such).

[Useful Idiot]

I think it's a large slice of both.

 

The central/defensive midfield we play (Lemina aside) offers little creativity or support to a striker.

 

None of Romeu, Davis or JWP get forward enough from CM into the space near the opposition area.

 

Playing Tadic and Boufal wide reinforces the fact that whoever we play as a lone striker is isolated.

 

We get very few touches outside the opposition box and have little movement to draw players out to allow high quality chances.

 

This has been a problem for both managers, and is down to a lack of either a Lallana-type midfielder who can recover possession, is comfortable on the ball and can link play or a pacy goal threat like Mane.

 

What was even worse today was trying to park the bus for 85 mins, and I'm sure that was mostly down to the instructions from the manager. Incredibly frustrating to watch and completely cost us two points.

 

Also, why the hell does Boufal keep getting shunted wide left and why is Tadic playing on the right? Both have repeatedly shown that they are not as effective from those positions. Either play one as a 10 to try to get Gabbi some support and the other on their natural side or drop one for Long up top.

 

Also, today was a good illustration for why Long shouldn't play wide. His best attribute is pressuring the opposition CBs and that is completely lost when he's shunted out on the right. He's not really that useful tracking back, he's more effective closing down.

[Saints foreva]

Les Reed, Ross Wilson and whoever else is connected to the transfer side of things can take a huge slice of the blame.

[beatlesaint]

Players not as good as they think they are.

Manager, like the last one, who likes to keep things tight and not concede and is reluctant to be proactive rather than reactive.

A board who will not spend big and take any speculate to accumulate risks (which I can understand given their business plan)

 

Its a dangerous combination and unfortunately it was always going to come to a head sooner or later. And we are there now.

[aintforever]

The players are just not good enough. We are strong in areas but woefully short of options for the the attacking midfielders and don’t have a single striker suited to playing the lone role up front the way Pelle or Lambert did.

[Pamplemousse]

Players, and those responsible for recruiting them.

 

Defensively we're a good side, central midfield is OK, but dreadful attacking options.

[Saint in Paradise]

To give a rather different stance on this subject perhaps it's the betwetter fans on here who are the major cause rather than the players or management?

 

I mean if you constantly read that you are rubbish then after a time deep in your subconscious you start to believe it and so in the end it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

[Convict Colony]

Good managers improve players.....

[Cartman]

Players and it is not even close.

[nta786]

To give a rather different stance on this subject perhaps it's the betwetter fans on here who are the major cause rather than the players or management?

 

I mean if you constantly read that you are rubbish then after a time deep in your subconscious you start to believe it and so in the end it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.

 

hmm so you suggesting that maybe as fans we need to lower our expectations?

 

we're rubbish in the sense that we are not a comfortable top 8 club though right?

[tajjuk]

Our defence even with Forster is top 4 level, they showed the stats today, we don't concede many and if we had a better keeper or even Forster of 2 years ago we'd have conceded even less. That is with Bertrand and VVD at about 70% as well.

 

But our attacking midfield options are now tired, Redmond is just an average player, Tadic is not the player of 18 months ago, we seems to have 3 strikers that can't play alone and we have no goalscoring midfielder. And our most talented attacking talent is inconsistent and doesn't get game time because of it.

 

We need 3 new attacking players, a number 10 who can score and link our decent defensive mid with the forwards, another wide player with pace and power, and a striker with some physical presence.

 

We then need to cut our losses on Tadic, Redmond, Long, Davis probably Austin cos he seems to be always injured, and maybe JWP as well. Get Sims back in the team, get Gallacher back from loan and give one of the youngsters more chances.

 

Plus we need a new keeper to at least challenge Forster if not replace him.

 

Basically everything in front of Romeu and Lemina needs upgrading.

[saintwbu]

A bit of both. Players certainly aren’t as good as under Koeman, but it’s a manager’s job to get the best out of those players. Puel has even said today in the press that we created a lot of chances under him, just weren’t clinical, which in the main I think was true, perhaps not right at the end of the season. Plenty of games were goalless due to missed penalties and poor finishing. Pellegrino isn’t even delivering that much.

[Lukee]

Tell you what we have some fickle fans. The same ones that complain about lack of creativity or lack of risk complain about when Boufal loses the ball.

 

That being said, I believe this is the players not putting in as much of a shift as they should. Forster is to blame for that goal, simple as that, as he has been to blame for many other of our goals. Simply does not move his feet quick enough. Gabbiadini does his best, Tadic has done next to nothing in the time he's played etc etc

 

The root of the problem is so many players no longer have passion for the club or a belief we can do something. The ones that do play well and are positive and try to make all attacks worthwhile- Davis, JWP (as much as he's limited physically), Romeu all have great passion and try and move the ball on to create attacks. The problem is the final third as it has been all this and last season.

 

People are looking back with rose tinted glasses though. We never had a good unit of attacking players. We had Mane who on his day is one of the best in the prem, a semi- decent striker in Pelle who was keen for a goal drought and Tadic who for some reason played a bit better than he did now.

Last season was awful, stop trying to get Claude Puel back after you called for his sacking. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Fabrice29]

We lack players capable of being direct and decisive. Its not the players fault. They aren't capable of it. They flirt with it a bit and Redmond and Boufal are young so will only improve but they aren't the type we need. We also massively miss Pelle. Someone capable of holding up the vall and bringing others into the game. Someone capable of getting on the end of crosses. Long is capable of holding it up and dragging the team up the pitch but isn't capable of finishing anything that is then created. So we have to go around teams and our full backs are actually quite good at that. However it means we become predictable and easy to defend against.

 

Its no coincidence the games we create most in is ones where Long plays. He causes havoc and pushes us further up the field. Its also no coincidence we then miss alot of chances when he's involved. Pelle had the ability to do both (although there were obvious times he did neither).

 

I don't think its the managers fault either. He tried pushing Boufal and Tadic closer to Gabbi a bit yesterday at one stafe but nothing stuck and everything came back. Its also not a coincidence that its been the same issue as last year.

 

Recruitment wise I can see the thinking behind Boufal and Redmond being young and capable of producing better buy I was shocked we didn't try and get someone else im the summer and even more shocked if we don't in the January window.

 

As it happens I think after Burnley we could see a couple of little surprises. We play better teams and I think the game will be a little more open for us. Happened at stages against United and we looked better until they put a stop to it. I don't think the likes of Liverpool, City and Arsenal will do that and we might actually surprise a few here. Equally we could be punished but at least it'll be more exciting

[saint-crinny]

We could do with Dyche getting the Everton job this week as Saturday against Burnley is a really big game for us given the start and what's to come.

 

No doubt the squad isn't anywhere as good as it was under Koeman, but tactically today, not pushing on and trying to score again against such limited opposition was bizarre and you have to put that at the manager's door.

 

So, not that impressed with MP so far - if he hooks Boufal for Saturday and restores Redmond I'll have more questions. Yes he's inconsistent and didn't really get into the game yesterday, but right now he is the only one who could create anything and absolutely needs a run of games and not being dropped as quick as he is brought in if he has one off game.

[doddisalegend]

Good managers improve players.....

 

Only to a point. Some players have limitations that no amount of coaching will over come. No amount of coaching can increase JWPs pace to any useful degree for example. Shane Long has been coached by a succession of different managers and still can't hit a barn door. No manager can make Cedric taller so he doesn't get beaten so easily at the back post.

[doddisalegend]

It's clearly a bit of both.

 

Forster is costing us points on a weekly basis it was obvious we needed to upgrade last season instead we gave him a nice big fat new contract. Neither of our GK back options look any better so the manager isn't left with much choice there.

 

Other players are letting us down to. Bertrand is a good player increasingly looking like he is just going through the motions Same for VVD this season. Shane Long is a striker who hasn't scored for something like 26 games (no team can really afford to carry a striker that bad). JWP, Hojberg and Davis will be lucky to reach 7 goals for the season between them. Redmond, Boufal and Tadic are our creative players who don't create very much. We have mediocrity all over the front line. We have a decent holding Midfielders and a generally decent defence let down by a **** goal keeper it really isn't a good combination.

 

Having said that the manager needs to get the best out of what we have. We don't play a style that plays to the strength of any of our three strikers. I can't help feeling we should go three at the back to give Forster as much protection as possible and give our full backs the chance to get forward more and two up top because none of our strikers seem suited to the lone striker role.

[Wurzel]

We lack players capable of being direct and decisive. Its not the players fault. They aren't capable of it. They flirt with it a bit and Redmond and Boufal are young so will only improve but they aren't the type we need. We also massively miss Pelle. Someone capable of holding up the vall and bringing others into the game. Someone capable of getting on the end of crosses. Long is capable of holding it up and dragging the team up the pitch but isn't capable of finishing anything that is then created. So we have to go around teams and our full backs are actually quite good at that. However it means we become predictable and easy to defend against.

 

Its no coincidence the games we create most in is ones where Long plays. He causes havoc and pushes us further up the field. Its also no coincidence we then miss alot of chances when he's involved. Pelle had the ability to do both (although there were obvious times he did neither).

 

I don't think its the managers fault either. He tried pushing Boufal and Tadic closer to Gabbi a bit yesterday at one stafe but nothing stuck and everything came back. Its also not a coincidence that its been the same issue as last year.

 

Recruitment wise I can see the thinking behind Boufal and Redmond being young and capable of producing better buy I was shocked we didn't try and get someone else im the summer and even more shocked if we don't in the January window.

 

As it happens I think after Burnley we could see a couple of little surprises. We play better teams and I think the game will be a little more open for us. Happened at stages against United and we looked better until they put a stop to it. I don't think the likes of Liverpool, City and Arsenal will do that and we might actually surprise a few here. Equally we could be punished but at least it'll be more exciting ��

 

Think you could be right with that last paragraph. Alaves we're the underdogs of La Liga and he set them up in a way that they could nullify and get a point or 3 against all those teams better than them (which, on paper, was pretty much all of them). And that worked well. It seems that no-one has told him that we are NOT the underdogs in this league we are better than 13 of the teams we play (and all but one played so far fall into that category) and it should be them worrying about scraping a point agaist us. If we're not careful we'll end up as the team the top 6 hate to play whilst the remaining 13 find we cause them no problems

[Dr. Kucho]

I doubt that Pellegrino knows his best 11, or what tactics suit the players best. We can go on about the quality of players, however this is what we have and the manager has to mould them in to a team.

 

Managers like Peter Bosz (now at Dortmund, last year Ajax) always has his teams play attacking football, Poch likes high pressing and Mourinho defensive play. We need a coach that likes to entertain and dares to take a risk now and then. A good set of coaches in the academy would help too.

[jamesfp1]

Could argue it both ways. Pellegrino is definitely not telling them to spend the majority of the game passing it backwards or sideways (actually heard him screaming "forward" at Davis yesterday followed by "aaarrgghhh" after yet another pass back to VVD. But then you can argue why isn't he and the coaches snapping them out of it.

[Heisenberg]

Manager (Puel and Pellegrino) Reed, Wilson, Watson, Black & Players.... all have contributed to our decline past 18 months

 

The momentum from the Cortese era saw us through a couple of seasons but once that eased off we have struggled to find any identity or direction. Just seem to have fallen into the mid table and average gang with Stoke, WHU and WBA.

[SKD]

Could argue it both ways. Pellegrino is definitely not telling them to spend the majority of the game passing it backwards or sideways (actually heard him screaming "forward" at Davis yesterday followed by "aaarrgghhh" after yet another pass back to VVD. But then you can argue why isn't he and the coaches snapping them out of it.

 

I actually think the players are suffering a hang over from Puel.

 

They are clearly void of all confidence, which is why we tend to play safe and aren't making as many forward passes. It is MP's job to get the best out of them and fill them with confidence, as of yet, he hasn't done that.

[Greenridge]

Could argue it both ways. Pellegrino is definitely not telling them to spend the majority of the game passing it backwards or sideways (actually heard him screaming "forward" at Davis yesterday followed by "aaarrgghhh" after yet another pass back to VVD. But then you can argue why isn't he and the coaches snapping them out of it.

 

Yes, I certainly didn't see him barking orders at the team to throw the anchor out after we scored but that's what we did. Must be in the team psyche and something that he, or someone else, needs to be working on.

[derry]

The manager. Tadic left footed doesn't shoot quickly when he has the chance but takes an extra touch cannot play on the right and won't get many goals. Play left, probably not good enough to play centrally as he doesn't make runs.

Redmond same as Tadic only on the right. Boufal Right or Central. JWP, luxury dead ball specialist, doesn't tackle, head and very slow doesn't make runs and score from play. Davis is a ball recycler and lightning struck twice with two goals. Hojbjerg needs games but can be aggressive and tackle.

 

Because of the above playing Redmond and Tadic or Boufal on their wrong side neuters the attack and mostly results in the ball going sideways and backwards. Playing only one striker none of which are hold up players is a nonsense.

 

The job of a manager is to select a team that is better than the sum of the parts. Our team is worse than the sum of the parts because of the lack of balance. The only reason to play players on the wrong side is to allow them to shoot with their strong foot having come inside. we don't do that, more likely to check out and pass back to the full back, hence no point in those individuals playing on the wrong side.

 

The manager selects the team so he is at fault. If he can't see the shortcomings he is not up to the job.

[East Kent Saint]

The decline is due to economics , since Kat realized she could not afford to pump money into the club we have been trying to survive by buying low and selling high . Unfortunately , like most clubs outside the top 6 money bags, we cannot afford top players nor have a massive squad mainly loaned out nor compete to bring in the best young talent for future years. Leicester managed for one season by classic breakaway attacking but they have lost their best midfielders to Chelski and the rest of the clubs can now counter their formation (apart from Everton).

Guardiola has now produced an excellent team BUT he had to spend big then beat them into shape as well as modifying his tactics , The difference is he has been able to buy top talent to start with , they have the skill and he has managed to get more out of them by coaching as well as threatening their place in the team or even at the club until they get it or get out.

[Nordic Saint]

I assume Les Reed is responsible for both the players and the manager. If they succeed, Les will certainly get the credit; if they don't, it will be their fault.

[Red]

Largely depends on the ambitions of the new owners in my view. They have either bought us to invest in and make us a bigger / better / more powerful team to compete with top 6 - hope so but no signs so far of that. Or they have bought us as a EPL trophy club to give them some publicity and respectability etc. In the latter case they will not want to risk getting us relegated and will slowly recoup their investment over time via TV money etc. We will be ultra cautious and play not to lose (ala Arsenal in George Graham days), and hence very average and dull to watch. TV money has certainly not helped this situation, which is why clubs are so trigger happy to get rid of managers, as clubs (and arguably even top 6) cannot afford to get relegated.

 

We are not the only side with this approach - most outside the top 6 play dull, boring risk free football. I long for the flowing football and enjoyment of the old Dell days when a group of us would literally build up to the Sat match from Thursday and meet up early Sat for breakfast, before a few beers and have a blast all day and night, but sadly I fear that will not return anytime soon - just glad I had a few years of it.

 

Still Saints through and through but these days if the misses dragged me to one of her charity events on a match day, I wouldn't be too upset sadly :-(

[Bit of a plonker]

I think it is largely the quality of the players, although we have been really bloody boring to watch for the last 18 months. The trouble is, we have a strong back 6 or 7, even allowing for Forster, but to get the excitement and goals to move the team forward to have a possibility of top 6 or 7, you need to invest ridiculously heavily in quality at the top end of the pitch, and that is really expensive. The back end of the team can be built on the cheap, and by and large we have done that really well. £8-15 million gets you a really good player in that part of the pitch. But we pay the same kind of figures further up the pitch, and that gets you, at best, average. And as you are only as successful as your attack, we are only going to be average.

 

However, there is a chance to invest in better players and move forwards. We can sell VvD for £60-70m, and we do not need to sign a replacement. We can sell 1 or 2 of Tadic (definately), Long (although I think we are more threatening with him in the team), Redmond (would probably keep him because he is young and has potential), JWP (could probably sell him and get the British player premium) or Hojberg, and probably get £10-£15m each (they are all bang average). That would give us £90-£100m to invest in 2 or 3 quality signings, in the £25-30m range. I have no idea who those signings could be, I don't play football manager, but the chance seems to be there now.

[sammysaint]

Poor recruitment and the players, Thinking Redmond would be the next Mane is a prime example and he does not help himself by thinking he's a top class player, MP plays two strikers when he needs too and tries to play attacking football.

 

Lemina and Gabbi are great signings but lack of creative players mean Lemina is getting more attention.

 

We need to sign one or two more consistent wide players with pace.

[shurlock]

The manager. Tadic left footed doesn't shoot quickly when he has the chance but takes an extra touch cannot play on the right and won't get many goals. Play left, probably not good enough to play centrally as he doesn't make runs.

Redmond same as Tadic only on the right. Boufal Right or Central. JWP, luxury dead ball specialist, doesn't tackle, head and very slow doesn't make runs and score from play. Davis is a ball recycler and lightning struck twice with two goals. Hojbjerg needs games but can be aggressive and tackle.

 

Because of the above playing Redmond and Tadic or Boufal on their wrong side neuters the attack and mostly results in the ball going sideways and backwards. Playing only one striker none of which are hold up players is a nonsense.

 

The job of a manager is to select a team that is better than the sum of the parts. Our team is worse than the sum of the parts because of the lack of balance. The only reason to play players on the wrong side is to allow them to shoot with their strong foot having come inside. we don't do that, more likely to check out and pass back to the full back, hence no point in those individuals playing on the wrong side.

 

The manager selects the team so he is at fault. If he can't see the shortcomings he is not up to the job.

 

See Everton went with your beloved 4-4-2 yesterday, old fashioned wingers to boot and got absolutely battered in the first half. Not surprisingly they ditched the experiment sharpish. Make of it what you will pal.

[way down south]

I think our main issue is a case of being a midtable team. Because clearly we cant buy perfection like the man cities of the world so every now and again we settle for mediocrity. Prime example , fraser forster. Now if we were a top 5 team we probs would have sold his a## and bought a competent keeper by spending say 30 mil on someone like pickford.

Another example is us keeping all the generally agreed upon average footballers and sh#te ones too. Jwp, long, tadic, redmond, arguably austin too.

IMO had we moved on the above mentioned players and recruited wisely starting the process early in the transfer window, i'm very certain we wouldnt be here arguing why we're so sh#te.

[Disco Stu]

The board.

[adrian lord]

Journeymen strike-force + defensive managers = mid table/flirting with worse.

[Rebel]

A bit of both really.

 

The players don't seem to be giving their all on the pitch - particularly Bertrand. And a lot of them just aren't playing well - Forster, Bertrand, Cedric, VVD, Romeu, Redmond, Tadic, Boufal, Long and Gabbiadini.

 

But the manager has to take a lot of responsibility for the way we are playing. He doesn't really seem to have a game plan - and he's playing a number of players in the wrong positions. Tadic is world class for Serbia because he plays on the left. Redmond is a right winger, nothing more. Boufal is a number 10 or nothing. Gabbiadini is not really a centre forward. Davis is just a central midfielder - not attacking and not defensive.

 

But I think the problems should be laid at the feet of Reed. This season looks like another case of the wrong manager and the wrong squad. We lacks strength in depth, goals, creativity and pace. We are short a striker and winger - and probably an attacking midfielder as well. For the last 2 seasons our recruitment of players hasn't been good enough - and by the looks of it neither has our choice of manager.

 

However Reed needs to back Pellegrino in January to see if we can get the right squad so we can see if he is the right manager. We need to sell a few players and replace them, and then spend some money to bring a few more in to give the squad a boost - it needs it.

[simo]

Imo the board/owners couldn't care less how we play as long as we stay in the premier league, Being all gung ho and possibly dropping points isnt what they want to see they just want to see those premier league pounds keep rolling in .

[View From The Top]

We've currently a manager painfully out of his depth but with the players after binning a manager with a plan but without the players.

[Crab Lungs]

Nothing wrong with the squad other than a lack of pace and direct running. It's got goals orers and creators, they've just been woefully under utilised by two safety first managers... whose coaching is doesn't create an identity for the team like a Pochettino or attacking mentalist Roger Schmidt would.

 

There's enough decent, attacking footballers in our squad to have scored and created more than we have in the past couple of seasons. It's up to the manager and the coaching staff to create and drill patterns of play, develop an identity and get the players believing in that.

 

Puel and even moreso Pellegrino are failing to do that in spades

[doddisalegend]

Imo the board/owners couldn't care less how we play as long as we stay in the premier league, Being all gung ho and possibly dropping points isnt what they want to see they just want to see those premier league pounds keep rolling in .

 

TBF we seem to be dropping a lot of points playing safe. If they want us to stay in the PL then at very least they need to drop a load of cash on a keeper who can actually make saves.

[doddisalegend]

Nothing wrong with the squad other than a lack of pace and direct running. It's got goals orers and creators, they've just been woefully under utilised by two safety first managers... whose coaching is doesn't create an identity for the team like a Pochettino or attacking mentalist Roger Schmidt would.

 

There's enough decent, attacking footballers in our squad to have scored and created more than we have in the past couple of seasons. It's up to the manager and the coaching staff to create and drill patterns of play, develop an identity and get the players believing in that.

 

Puel and even moreso Pellegrino are failing to do that in spades

 

I think the evidence suggests we do not. It can't be all down to the way we set up. We have had the worst shots to goals conversion rate last season and this (despite having some of the highest shots stats in the league). Our players seem woefully bad at scoring goals Shane Long hasn't scored for something like 26 games, Tadic, Davis, JWP, HoJ Redmond, Romeu and Boufal all seem to find it easier to miss than get the ball on target. The West Brom game should have been out of sight long before Boufal even came on the pitch the number of chances we ****ed up.

[John B]

We are top 10 side with top 10 players and a top 10 manager whilst loads of fans live in a fantasy world

[derry]

See Everton went with your beloved 4-4-2 yesterday, old fashioned wingers to boot and got absolutely battered in the first half. Not surprisingly they ditched the experiment sharpish. Make of it what you will pal.

 

I thought Leicester were playing 4-4-2 and won 2-0 pal. Everton 4-2-3-1 Davies and Gueye behind Lennon, Rooney and Mirallas with Calvert -Lewin as the striker. Leicester were in blue by the way pal.

Edited 30 October, 2017 by derry

[Rory Peepa]

We need a change of shape imo. Since Pelle left there is no presence up front and the ball doesn’t stick. Maybe try 3 at the back and try to get 2up. Totally agree with the lack of bodies in the opposition box. Been like that since Puel first game. That said I think the defence won’t look nearly as clever if we don’t have Romeu and Lemina shielding. Burnley will park the bus. It’s going to be another painful watch.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tom & Gerry]

A lack of confidence leads to safety first football.

Safety first football leads to a lack of confidence.

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

We need to get out of the rut or eventually we will start playing risky all guns blazing football which will end up in us getting hammered.

Some on here have forgotten and others don't know how hard and unforgiving the Premier league is.

[cambsaint]

The squad is good when compared to other Prem teams outside the top five or six.

We must be realistic and realise the very best players will always want to play in the very top clubs and earn top money' so we can only develop very good players and enjoy them for a few years.

I was appalled on Sunday when after having Brighton under the cosh until the first excellent goal we allowed them back into it instead of going for it until we had a three goal lead.

This must surely be due to instructions as I can't imagine all eleven players deciding to play safety first and sit reidiculously deep after going ahead.

If Pellegrino doesn't improve by Christmas then he must go, and I have only very rarely thought this (except for Branfoot at al) before.

[tobes8]

I think it is largely the quality of the players, although we have been really bloody boring to watch for the last 18 months. The trouble is, we have a strong back 6 or 7, even allowing for Forster, but to get the excitement and goals to move the team forward to have a possibility of top 6 or 7, you need to invest ridiculously heavily in quality at the top end of the pitch, and that is really expensive. The back end of the team can be built on the cheap, and by and large we have done that really well. £8-15 million gets you a really good player in that part of the pitch. But we pay the same kind of figures further up the pitch, and that gets you, at best, average. And as you are only as successful as your attack, we are only going to be average.

 

However, there is a chance to invest in better players and move forwards. We can sell VvD for £60-70m, and we do not need to sign a replacement. We can sell 1 or 2 of Tadic (definately), Long (although I think we are more threatening with him in the team), Redmond (would probably keep him because he is young and has potential), JWP (could probably sell him and get the British player premium) or Hojberg, and probably get £10-£15m each (they are all bang average). That would give us £90-£100m to invest in 2 or 3 quality signings, in the £25-30m range. I have no idea who those signings could be, I don't play football manager, but the chance seems to be there now.

 

My concern is that should we carry on playing like we are then by January we could be right in the mire considering the games we have coming up. Not sure who we'd attract if that was the case. Think more players will want out than we get in.

[shurlock]

I thought Leicester were playing 4-4-2 and won 2-0 pal. Everton 4-2-3-1 Davies and Gueye behind Lennon, Rooney and Mirallas with Calvert -Lewin as the striker. Leicester were in blue by the way pal.

 

No, they weren’t playing a 4-4-2, notwithstanding the crap you were spouting yesterday.

 

They played quite a defensive 4-2-3-1 insofar as Chilwell is a fullback. It was Vardy up top, Mahrez behind him, with Gray on the right, Chilwell, a fullback on the left and Iborra and Ndidi as the two DMs.

 

In fact, Leicester’s formation yesterday was a a move away from 4-4-2 as Okazaki, the striker who’s partnered Vardy for the last couple of years, was benched. You were endorsing Leicester’s play even as it deliberately rejected 4-4-2. Make your mind up pal

 

By contrast, most commentators saw Everton playing a ‘traditional’, ‘naive’ 4-4-2 in the first half (the consensus is that Rooney played more as no.9/striker in the first half). Of course, none of this was helped by Everton’s high back four that had a combined age of 100 - no doubt you’d also like us to play a higher defensive line.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/grey-skies-still-hover-everton-13829409

 

Naive sort of sums you up.

Edited 30 October, 2017 by shurlock

[Kingsbridge Saint]

If Pellegrino would stop picking Tadic every week that would be a great help. Replace Redmond and Tadic with De Bruyne and Sane and we would be top 4. Those (constantly selected) two are the main reason our possession based football goes nowhere in the final third. It's their job to create things but all they do in trying to do that is repeatedly give the ball away, either getting tackled, falling over, or with poor passes, woeful crosses, or duff shooting.

[niceandfriendly]

Puel without a doubt. He ripped the heart and soul out of an exciting team and the players are still suffering. The commentators were saying such on Sunday as well. It's clear for everyone to see except a few silly sausages on here who think Puel is some kind of god.

 

He was the worst appointment in recent Southampton FC history by a long way, so Reed needs to take some of the blame for this too. He employed that clown.