January 18 transfer window

[Hobbit73]

It might sound too optimistic view of the current situation, however my hope (more than anything else) is that because of the circumstances that we're in, Mr Gao might push for the (at least temporary) change in the profile of the players that we're bringing into club. Instead of buying younger players with higher potential of resale value, without tested experience in this level of the game, goes for more experienced (and more expensive) acquisitions, that area more likely to bring immediate results in the short term.

 

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[fish fingers]

What we need now is Olivier Bernard, Callum Davenport and Jamie Redknapp.

[SNSUN]

Saints are signing Hugh Grant in the transfer window.

 

He's not our main target, just a fringe player.

 

I think Rugby is more his game, he plays better with a hooker.

 

One thing is for sure, we don't need youngsters, we need players that can come in and make an immediate impact. One look at the table shows that for the first time since promotion, we are in dire straits, and despite having a decent set of players, we need new ones to boost confidence. Walcott is a must for starters.

[Saint-Fred]

What we need now is Olivier Bernard, Callum Davenport and Jamie Redknapp.

 

Lol I was just thinking he same...I am not sure suddenly changing tact and signing random more "experienced" players is the answer.

It hasn't worked for West Brom who, on paper, signed some "experience" in the summer.

It could be argued Stoke have done the same... Apparently we have targets so we just need to trust in the recruitment we have shown can be done in the past.

 

For me it's that something has to happen to get our lot to actually finish teams off...I think I read Palace have picked up more points from losing positions than anyone... It feels like we are the opposite and throw away points from winningdrawing positions on a regular basis? Not sure if that's reality though.

[austsaint]

What we need now is Olivier Bernard, Callum Davenport and Jamie Redknapp.

 

Don't forget Camara - he really could play.

[CB Fry]

Don't forget Camara - he really could play.

I refuse to accept we are in a relegation battle until we sign Nigel Quashie.

[BotleySaint]

Hopefully the club don't shut up shop and start preparing for relegation.

[mrfahaji]

**** me, what an ignorant post. There's some lovely areas of Liverpool . Certainly every bit as nice as Southampton.

 

 

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I wasn't really referring to City Centre/High Street to be honest. More a comment of the general quality of people that seem to be from there.

 

It is of course possible I am unduly influenced by the constant barrage of scousers in the media, like Mick Quinn and John Aldridge... but in general Liverpool and Everton fans seem to have a delusional high opinion of their club, and people from Liverpool (in general) have a delusional high opinion of themselves and their city.

 

Agree that Southampton isn't great though...

Edited 3 January, 2018 by mrfahaji

[SKD]

Serious question...

 

I know our squad certainly isn't the best (no way is it as bad as our position currently shows though), but would you accept no in-comings but new coaching staff?

 

I think I would prefer that then let MP waste (that's if he even has a say, which is debatable) £70m.

[mrfahaji]

I refuse to accept we are in a relegation battle until we sign Nigel Quashie.

 

Couldn't stand him when he joined but I thought he actually played pretty well for us.

[Give it to Ron]

Serious question...

 

I know our squad certainly isn't the best (no way is it as bad as our position currently shows though), but would you accept no in-comings but new coaching staff?

 

I think I would prefer that then let MP waste (that's if he even has a say, which is debatable) £70m.

 

Why should we have to? We need a forward and without it we are toothless we cant get enough points from 0-0 - this clueless muppet doesn't get it at 1-0.

The subs last night just were absolutely abysmal and the sign of someone sop out of his depth a Tyro league u12 manager could do better.

We need manager and 2 forwards.

[SKD]

Why should we have to? We need a forward and without it we are toothless we cant get enough points from 0-0 - this clueless muppet doesn't get it at 1-0.

The subs last night just were absolutely abysmal and the sign of someone sop out of his depth a Tyro league u12 manager could do better.

We need manager and 2 forwards.

 

Hypothetical question and of course we can make signings and replace the manager (which is what I hope we do).

[mrfahaji]

Serious question...

 

I know our squad certainly isn't the best (no way is it as bad as our position currently shows though), but would you accept no in-comings but new coaching staff?

 

I think I would prefer that then let MP waste (that's if he even has a say, which is debatable) £70m.

 

Yes. Without doubt.

 

Was talking to a Boro fan at work (who hung his head in despair when I said some people think we should get Monk) about the importance of a good manager, and he asked me, "if you could sign no players but get Guardiola or Conte, or keep Pellegrino sign Harry Kane, what would you choose?" For me the answer is definitely the former.

[Give it to Ron]

Its something Lowe made the mistake all those years ago and now Reed, Kruegar doing the same - the manager is the number one person at the club.

Look at Hodgson, BFS , Moyes etc and how they have turned it around yet we are sticking with someone so way out of his depth...it was plain as far back as the Wolves game - frightened rabbit in the headlights.

[miserableoldgit]

Serious question...

 

I know our squad certainly isn't the best (no way is it as bad as our position currently shows though), but would you accept no in-comings but new coaching staff?

 

I think I would prefer that then let MP waste (that's if he even has a say, which is debatable) £70m.

To me, the biggest problem is the fact that we never replaced the goals that Mane and Pelle scored....not having a real goal threat has let down both Puel and MP. Charlie Austin is not the answer.

 

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[James]

Serious question...

 

I know our squad certainly isn't the best (no way is it as bad as our position currently shows though), but would you accept no in-comings but new coaching staff?

 

I think I would prefer that then let MP waste (that's if he even has a say, which is debatable) £70m.

 

Yes - I genuinely think the most responsible thing we can do at this point is use £5-6m to pay up MP and get someone else. If the worst happens and we are relegated then at least we’ve got some in reserve to mount a serious challenge next year. I fail to see who we could get in that will make the immediate impact we need in any case. Some off the wall Reed signings are all we will get anyway (talk of Sturridge and Walcott is just fantasy IMO) so I’d rather leave those if it meant a competent coaching staff.

[miserableoldgit]

Puel was allowed to sign Redmond, Boufal and Gabbiadini. Let's not erase history. If he didn't want them he'd have said. He failed to get anywhere near the best from Boufal, sent Gabbiadini rapidly backwards and did ok with redmond.

 

MP has sent them all further backwards. Mane was brilliant but did have runs without goals, Pelle was decent enough but never scored prolifically. If we'd signed no one I'd get the criticism But we spend big on exactly our type of players. You can't criticism the policy that previously brought us Mane in the first place just because it doesn't work out as well every time.

 

I can completely see why they went for Hoedt, Lemina, Hojbjerg, Gabbiadini, Boufal. Some take longer to work that others but it'll all depend on management ultimately. If MP had been in charge with Tadic/Pelle/Mane up front we'd still have been ****, he'd still have changed it every game, still have had them passing backwards and off form.

Minor point but I seem to remember that Redmond was signed some time before Puel was appointed.

 

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[S-Clarke]

Puel was allowed to sign Redmond, Boufal and Gabbiadini. Let's not erase history. If he didn't want them he'd have said. He failed to get anywhere near the best from Boufal, sent Gabbiadini rapidly backwards and did ok with redmond.

 

MP has sent them all further backwards. Mane was brilliant but did have runs without goals, Pelle was decent enough but never scored prolifically. If we'd signed no one I'd get the criticism But we spend big on exactly our type of players. You can't criticism the policy that previously brought us Mane in the first place just because it doesn't work out as well every time.

 

I can completely see why they went for Hoedt, Lemina, Hojbjerg, Gabbiadini, Boufal. Some take longer to work that others but it'll all depend on management ultimately. If MP had been in charge with Tadic/Pelle/Mane up front we'd still have been ****, he'd still have changed it every game, still have had them passing backwards and off form.

 

Redmond was the biggest example of a club signing there ever has been. He was signed when we had no manager.

[mrfahaji]

100%.

 

Out squad has frustrated people in the last 18 months but we have loads of good players. You have to be suspicious when decent internationals all turn rubbish. Seriously how are tadic, van dijk, bertrand, cedric, gabbiadini, romeu etc suddenly all useless?!!! JWP and Redmond played their way to the england squad, whatever people think of them, they were both ten times better then.

 

Mass underperformance has left us looking at relegation, not lack of signings or sales. We spend in january, we spent in the summer, we only sold deadwood. The manager and coaching staff's job is producing an on form team from that squad.

 

Exactly. How many of our team would stay if we went down? Not many. Why is that? Because they'd be wanted by Premier League clubs, and not just ones scrapping at the bottom. Ergo, we shouldn't be anywhere near the bottom three with our squad.

[Donatello]

So, should the club's default position be 'we're reinvesting the VVD money over two windows' (which is what it is, as per media rumblings), or 'we'll spend it all if X players are available'. I'm not a spend for spend sake kinda person, and long term management/thinking is obviously preferable, and a scattergun approach gets you no where fast, *and* January is an overpriced market, but our current position seems like a good enough reason to buy big (in terms of quality, thus higher cost) this year. Surely situations sometimes necessitate a short-term approach.

 

P.S I wonder if they are any 'bargains' (in January terms) to be had with players entering the last six months of their contract...? Probably not, because decent players tend to be offered contracts, but you never know.

P.P.S and no, I'm not advocating panic buying, merely being more aggressive with our long term targets, i.e. summer targets being brought forward six months.

Edited 3 January, 2018 by Donatello

[pangy]

The club need to invest hugely in this window imo,we have always bought with one eye on the resale value and buying "ones for the future" and that has always been a business decision,they now need to make a footballing decision and buy players that will do a job straight away that may have no resale value or very little,because if they try and scrimp again buy buying unproven players we will have a hell of a battle on,and if or when we get relegated all these astute business choices they think they have made will be worthless as 75% of these players will be forcing there way out of the club quicker than you can imagine.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

A Jimmy Case type figure who leads from the front would do me.

[Useful Idiot]

Exactly. How many of our team would stay if we went down? Not many. Why is that? Because they'd be wanted by Premier League clubs, and not just ones scrapping at the bottom. Ergo, we shouldn't be anywhere near the bottom three with our squad.

 

Just because individually a set of players have useful attributes, it does not follow that they will make a good team.

 

We are hopelessly short of goal threat, with the exception of Austin and possibly Gabbiadini. We don't seem to have the players who can spot the latter's runs, so his main attacking threat is nullified.

 

We have really average centre backs, average goalkeepers, no real way to effectively hold the ball up top to build play and no pace to exploit the counter.

 

Individually we have some very good players, but our squad balance is shockingly bad.

[iansums]

A Jimmy Case type figure who leads from the front would do me.

 

I thought he played in midfield?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Minor point but I seem to remember that Redmond was signed some time before Puel was appointed.

 

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But let’s blame Puel anyway.

 

 

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[petts]

What we need now is Olivier Bernard, Callum Davenport and Jamie Redknapp.

Hahaha, though I actually thought Jamie redknapp was up for the fight, but it was clear his knees were shot.

 

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[mrfahaji]

Just because individually a set of players have useful attributes, it does not follow that they will make a good team.

 

We are hopelessly short of goal threat, with the exception of Austin and possibly Gabbiadini. We don't seem to have the players who can spot the latter's runs, so his main attacking threat is nullified.

 

We have really average centre backs, average goalkeepers, no real way to effectively hold the ball up top to build play and no pace to exploit the counter.

 

Individually we have some very good players, but our squad balance is shockingly bad.

 

While all that is true, surely it is up to the manager to find that balance and get the good players working together? Having an unbalanced squad might explain why good players aren't doing quite as well as they perhaps should, it doesn't explain why players who have taken the interest of Champions League sides should be battling relegation.

 

Of all the things you've listed, I think the lack of pace in our squad is a major deficiency. Whether it's to have as a regular tactic or just someone to bring on to give a different dimension to the play. And before anyone suggests him, Nathan Redmond has been tricking the world into thinking he has pace for most of his career...

[Useful Idiot]

While all that is true, surely it is up to the manager to find that balance and get the good players working together? Having an unbalanced squad might explain why good players aren't doing quite as well as they perhaps should, it doesn't explain why players who have taken the interest of Champions League sides should be battling relegation.

 

Of all the things you've listed, I think the lack of pace in our squad is a major deficiency. Whether it's to have as a regular tactic or just someone to bring on to give a different dimension to the play. And before anyone suggests him, Nathan Redmond has been tricking the world into thinking he has pace for most of his career...

 

Yeah, Redmond has average sprint speed but is quick over 5 yards. He has to stop a defender then burst past them, similarly to Boufal, who is better at it.

 

Long cannot play wide. He's awful out there, doesn't have the movement to play like JRod did for us, and his touch is rubbish.

 

On Gabbiadini, I just don't know how we can coach better vision into our midfield. Not one of them looks like being able to find him.

 

Overall, it's a mess. I seriously think our promotion year squad was at least as strong as our current team, and certainly had a better first XI.

 

--------------Boruc--------------

Clyne---Fonte-----Yoshida---Shaw

------Cork-------Schneiderlin-----

Puncheon-----Lallana---------JRod

-------------Lambert-------------

 

is miles better than what we have now.

[Chewy]

Um, that wasn't or promotion squad.

[Useful Idiot]

Sorry, I meant first year in the Prem

[rickylambert]

Um, that wasn't or promotion squad.

 

You know what he means...

[Bstokesaint]

Arsenal seem keen to offload Olivier Giroud, would prefer him in a relegation battle than Walcott/Sturridge.

 

Problem is finding players better than what we have that would want to come and play within our wage structure which I imagine is in the bottom quarter or at least bottom 1/3 smallest in the league. (Forget the £75m, the actual figure that’s gone into the bank this season is probably half that. That’s without our new owner dipping his hand in to pay his loan off)

[Whitey Grandad]

Arsenal seem keen to offload Olivier Giroud, would prefer him in a relegation battle than Walcott/Sturridge.

 

Problem is finding players better than what we have that would want to come and play within our wage structure which I imagine is in the bottom quarter or at least bottom 1/3 smallest in the league. (Forget the £75m, the actual figure that’s gone into the bank this season is probably half that. That’s without our new owner dipping his hand in to pay his loan off)

 

I was told lastnight by my Kingsland neighbour that we are 8th in the wages spending table. I respect his opinion.

[Chez]

I was told lastnight by my Kingsland neighbour that we are 8th in the wages spending table. I respect his opinion.

 

people on here refuse to accept that we might be paying Austin the £100k a week the dildo brothers said he wanted to sign for them. Someone at the club must be getting a fair chunk for that to be the case.

[Graffito]

I was told lastnight by my Kingsland neighbour that we are 8th in the wages spending table. I respect his opinion.

 

If there's a correlation between wage bill and final league placing then we are on course to underperform by some margin this season. I just hope the contracts allow for wage adjustments in the event of relegation.

[Forester]

I was told lastnight by my Kingsland neighbour that we are 8th in the wages spending table. I respect his opinion.

Yes I think this is true. But let’s all remember that, heaven forbid, if we were to finish eighth it would apparently be considered failure. And if we topped that up with a cup final then it really would be curtains for the manager....

[Lord Duckhunter]

I was told lastnight by my Kingsland neighbour that we are 8th in the wages spending table. I respect his opinion.

 

Haven’t a clue myself, but I’d be amazed if that was true in relation to respective 25 men squads. Clearly below top 6 and I’d imagine Everton. Would be surprised if we’re above West Ham, Leicester ( big rises after league win), I’d imagine stoke pay a fair whack as well, wouldn’t surprise me if Pulis pushed WBA’s up quite high as well.

 

Did you ask your mate how he knew this or where he got his facts from or did you just sit there agreeing with him.

 

 

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[SKD]

people on here refuse to accept that we might be paying Austin the £100k a week the dildo brothers said he wanted to sign for them. Someone at the club must be getting a fair chunk for that to be the case.

 

No, that is very close to what we would be paying Austin - He certainly is one of our higher earners, I've been told c.£80k.

 

From what I've been told, we were pretty naughty and effectively illegally tapped Austin up. Apparently he was all but signed for (I may be wrong in the club) Newcastle, and when Les caught wind, he went direct to his father and persuaded him to get Charlie to come to us.

[Saint Albert]

Arsenal seem keen to offload Olivier Giroud, would prefer him in a relegation battle than Walcott/Sturridge.

 

Problem is finding players better than what we have that would want to come and play within our wage structure which I imagine is in the bottom quarter or at least bottom 1/3 smallest in the league. (Forget the £75m, the actual figure that’s gone into the bank this season is probably half that. That’s without our new owner dipping his hand in to pay his loan off)

 

That might have been our biggest problem last year, although I believe we have one of the highest squad wage bills outside the top 6.

 

The biggest problem is convincing players to come to a club in a relegation struggle, showing no signs of improvement, with a manager that any reasonable outsider would consider is a lame duck. It does not make us an attractive proposition. The club have really screwed things to the point of recalcitrance by persisting with Pellegrino this late into the season.

[Junior Mullet]

Haven’t a clue myself, but I’d be amazed if that was true in relation to respective 25 men squads. Clearly below top 6 and I’d imagine Everton. Would be surprised if we’re above West Ham, Leicester ( big rises after league win), I’d imagine stoke pay a fair whack as well, wouldn’t surprise me if Pulis pushed WBA’s up quite high as well.

 

Did you ask your mate how he knew this or where he got his facts from or did you just sit there agreeing with him.

 

 

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Pretty sure that's public info accessible from Companies House accounts or pulled from info the clubs have to present to the association. I remember reading the figures and a report last year which indeed showed us as 8th highest spending. The report showed how much each club pays in wages against its turnover, thus giving a percentage of income used as wages. Interesting stuff. I'll see if I can dig it out.

 

The last set of accounts showed that pretty much all income from transfers out has been reinvested in transfers in. The figures pretty much balanced which shows that until that point the owners hadn't been taking money out from transfers. That may of course all change now that Gao is involved. KL's strategy was therefore one of capital growth rather than income, and proved to be a success when she sold a large chunk to Gao. I imagine the new business plan also envisages capital growth rather than asset-stripping/income in which case the board and owners will be desperate to stay in the Prem. Interesting to see what action they decide to take. Personally, if I were Gao I would be talking to Cortese with a view to replacing Les Read assuming of course KL has veto'd that. I would also want to replace the manager pronto.

 

It'll be an interesting January.

[Saint Albert]

According to this, we had the 9th highest wage bill among present PL clubs in 2016-17 with £94M:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/877950/Premier-League-wage-bills-2016-17-sportgalleries

 

Looking at the previous year’s list, our wage bill increased year on year over 2015-16 by £9M.

[Junior Mullet]

Pretty sure that's public info accessible from Companies House accounts or pulled from info the clubs have to present to the association. I remember reading the figures and a report last year which indeed showed us as 8th highest spending. The report showed how much each club pays in wages against its turnover, thus giving a percentage of income used as wages. Interesting stuff. I'll see if I can dig it out.

 

The last set of accounts showed that pretty much all income from transfers out has been reinvested in transfers in. The figures pretty much balanced which shows that until that point the owners hadn't been taking money out from transfers. That may of course all change now that Gao is involved. KL's strategy was therefore one of capital growth rather than income, and proved to be a success when she sold a large chunk to Gao. I imagine the new business plan also envisages capital growth rather than asset-stripping/income in which case the board and owners will be desperate to stay in the Prem. Interesting to see what action they decide to take. Personally, if I were Gao I would be talking to Cortese with a view to replacing Les Read assuming of course KL has veto'd that. I would also want to replace the manager pronto.

 

It'll be an interesting January.

 

Remember, accounts are prepared in arrears so this is old data now: http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10945892/premier-league-and-efl-wage-rises-analysed-in-deloitte-study

 

2016/17 figures - puts us 9th, slightly behind West Ham: https://talksport.com/football/every-premier-league-club-ranked-their-total-wage-bill-2016-17-171109261432?p=13

[Saint Albert]

Gaitan’s name is coming up again, albeit in the Sun...

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/5259208/everton-west-ham-southampton-eyeing-atletico-madrid-nicolas-gaitan/

[Saint Albert]

This is the source of the Gaitan rumours that the English newspapers seem to using...

 

https://as.com/futbol/2017/12/28/primera/1514497822_106908.html

[verlaine1979]

Notice Wilson's Telegraph piece this evening says

 

"The final incoming fee from Van Dijk will be around £60 million due to a large sell-on clause to Celtic but that money is being made available to reinvest, even if it is likely to be spread over several transfer windows"

 

suggesting that those hoping for a couple of big attention-grabbing January signings might wind up disappointed.

[James]

Notice Wilson's Telegraph piece this evening says

 

"The final incoming fee from Van Dijk will be around £60 million due to a large sell-on clause to Celtic but that money is being made available to reinvest, even if it is likely to be spread over several transfer windows"

 

suggesting that those hoping for a couple of big attention-grabbing January signings might wind up disappointed.

 

That article is quite confusing. In one breath it says we are determined to bring in 2/3 players and then goes on to mention players who would command a massive fee (Mawson, Benteke, Sturridge, Tosun) whilst on the other hand it says we are going to spread the cash over “several” transfer windows.

 

I predict a relatively uninteresting/uninspired permanent signing in the next week or so followed by a last minute loan for Sturridge/Walcott on deadline day, by which time it’ll be far far too late. Christ, what a depressing state of affairs. The messages coming out of the club at the moment are all over the place.

[sebastian firefly]

Sturridge benteke. Id rather we resigned david speedie and kerry Dixon

[Hobbit73]

Notice Wilson's Telegraph piece this evening says

 

"The final incoming fee from Van Dijk will be around £60 million due to a large sell-on clause to Celtic but that money is being made available to reinvest, even if it is likely to be spread over several transfer windows"

 

suggesting that those hoping for a couple of big attention-grabbing January signings might wind up disappointed.

Following that logic & practice (which doesn't surprise me at all, as I've heard of in the past), we also don't need to fork out the lump sum straight away when buying a player.

 

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[Heisenberg]

Notice Wilson's Telegraph piece this evening says

 

"The final incoming fee from Van Dijk will be around £60 million due to a large sell-on clause to Celtic but that money is being made available to reinvest, even if it is likely to be spread over several transfer windows"

 

suggesting that those hoping for a couple of big attention-grabbing January signings might wind up disappointed.

 

The VVD transfer fee is predictably dropping daily. Was £75m then £70m now looks more like £65m with Celtic seeing 10%

 

Also the fan appeasing "transfer raid" has quickly become a sensible and prudent approach to the market.

 

Begs the question whats happened to the premier league money we received in the summer?

 

Kats comments about the new owners "taking us to the next level"

 

This club is a complete joke

[SuperSAINT]

Kats comments about the new owners "taking us to the next level"

 

So far, they are.