what happened to "Surman and Lallana off as soon as window opens"

[ottery st mary]

It really isn't your view that Lowe must go that annoys me. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. What annoys me is that you consider anyone that doesn't share your views as having an illness. I am actually of the opinion that there currently isn't an alternative to him being in charge as the rest just don't try anything to get us out the crap. If there was a buy out I would be chuffed to bits.

 

Muckers again then?

Both groups views are welcome on any discussion....I just get frustrated the way some come on big time and then appear to group against individuals.

Not an illness just asking nicely for the bullying to stop..it frightens me...We are meant to be in the same gang..

Some comments, even mine, should be taken more lightly and with clever retorts and not with intent to start a boxing match...I am not allowed to box anymore...I was too good for the under 9s.

Anyway, is there any chance Rupert will let someone else have a go at running things..I am available. No offence intended to any of his freinds and they do not have to agree with me. Well not all the time.

 

I still think that a few will be off by the end of Jan....A lot of posters say the same....If the money is reasonable then no grumbles from this team....

The right loan transfers in would help.

 

Keep the faith...COYR.

[Saint_clark]

If Lowe wanted to sell players he would have done it as soon as he could IMO.

(Not like Crouch, who sent Rasiak and Skacel out on loan on the last day of the transfer window a year ago).

[aintforever]

If Lowe wanted to sell players he would have done it as soon as he could IMO.

(Not like Crouch, who sent Rasiak and Skacel out on loan on the last day of the transfer window a year ago).

 

Not really, Lowe has often held out for a better price.

 

Depends who's interested though, Stoke were reported to be after Surman but they signed Etherington so I expect that ends their interest. There hasn't appeared to be much interest in Lallana, and to be honest he hasn't cut much mustard at Championship level so I doubt any Prem clubs would be after him.

[The Godfather]

With these two players in mind, look at them individually. Surman's other half is due to give birth on Saturday and is unlikely to move unless it suits him & his family. It's more likely that he'll go in the summer.

With Lallana we would have to give Bournemouth a 25% sell on fee, so unless a large bid comes in he's not going anywhere. I don't see clubs buying him at the moment until he proves himself alot more than he has done so far (the boy has a natural talent and will be a good player in the future). But at the moment he's nowhere near the level of when we sold Walcott & Bale.

 

I think people have read to much into paper speculation (all gone quiet recently) and rumours they've heard from a taxi driver etc.

[Puddings and Monkeys]

I think people have read to much into paper speculation (all gone quiet recently) and rumours they've heard from a taxi driver etc.

 

A lot of people like to be doom and gloom merchants and take every opportunity to run the club down - strange behaviour.

[rooney]

It seems things have gone quiet since the Man U game. I know Lallana did not feature but Surman did and perhaps the big clubs feel he is not quite Premiership standard as is

Lallana with his "powder puff "shooting. OK for us though thank goodness.

[graymalkin33]

With still 19 days to go before the transfer window closes i think its too ealry to be saying i told you so. Too early for people to be retracting predictions.

I also saw people saying Lallana was off to Spurs FACT.

Well they still have nearly 3 weeks to make that a FACT.

Only time will tell.

 

I personally hope they stay. It wont make me like Lowe any more or any less.

[Window Cleaner]

It seems things have gone quiet since the Man U game. I know Lallana did not feature but Surman did and perhaps the big clubs feel he is not quite Premiership standard as is

Lallana with his "powder puff "shooting. OK for us though thank goodness.

 

To be honest Chelsea didn't look a whole lot better than us against Utd. True Utd had more of their "first team" on the pitch against Chelsea but it was a bit of a damp squib all the same.

[Window Cleaner]

With still 19 days to go before the transfer window closes i think its too ealry to be saying i told you so. Too early for people to be retracting predictions.

I also saw people saying Lallana was off to Spurs FACT.

Well they still have nearly 3 weeks to make that a FACT.

Only time will tell.

 

I personally hope they stay. It wont make me like Lowe any more or any less.

 

 

Nah, Harry needs real players just now, not boy wonders who may come good in a couple of years time.

[Frank's cousin]

The Lowey group out in force again, You really are a sad bunch in my opinion.

Football supporters of Saints..really.

 

Come on... please give this a break, how is acknowledging that the factors affecting whether or not players leave is down to mor ethan just the boards attitude, defending Lowe FFS?

 

If the board decide to sell when we dont need to and the player is happy to stay and they do it purely to feed the coffers and thus the dividends, I will be the first to stand up and declare them a bunch of moneygrabbing a*seholes, but in all the occasions where we have seen good players go its been because:

 

1. the player wants to go

or 2, we desperately need the money

 

OK so there is the odd occasion where the player wants to leave becaus eof the situation at a club rather than the money, but that is rare.

[ottery st mary]

Come on... please give this a break, how is acknowledging that the factors affecting whether or not players leave is down to mor ethan just the boards attitude, defending Lowe FFS?

 

If the board decide to sell when we dont need to and the player is happy to stay and they do it purely to feed the coffers and thus the dividends, I will be the first to stand up and declare them a bunch of moneygrabbing a*seholes, but in all the occasions where we have seen good players go its been because:

 

1. the player wants to go

or 2, we desperately need the money

 

OK so there is the odd occasion where the player wants to leave becaus eof the situation at a club rather than the money, but that is rare.

 

I think you totally misrepresented my point, which i mentioned again later.

I agree players going etc will always happen, agents, money required and all that. It was about the fun boy three and freinds suddenly jumping on any person who has a view. I do not consider you part of the Fun Boy Three by the way. I just suspect you are very close to the inner sanctum and close to the King. Good luck to you and all that...Hope it lasts..NOT.

 

You mention in another thread about people putting in money and taking over and all that...My question wouldbe to you, has Rupert ever really put any money in apart from getting shares by a back door method with the help of other greedy Directors....

 

The whole point is, as has now been proved for over 10 years, he is not good for Saints. The rapid decline in the state of Saints and everything that goes with the football club is proof enough, he is not the best person to be running the show...I see no light at the end of the tunnel with all his experiments either. We have to move on without Rupert and Michael and soon.

[Ponty]

Close to the King? Jesus.

[ottery st mary]

Close to the King? Jesus.

 

You called my son.

[saintwarwick]

The Lowey group out in force again, You really are a sad bunch in my opinion.

Football supporters of Saints..really.

 

Whether you are pro-Lowe, anti-Lowe or fence sitters we are all saints supporters, hth.

[ottery st mary]

Whether you are pro-Lowe, anti-Lowe or fence sitters we are all saints supporters, hth.

 

In the main, I almost, totally agree with you.

[Big Bad Bob]

Close to the King? Jesus.

 

You called my son.

 

He asked for Jesus not the Virgin Mary ;)

[Chez]

The club is looking to keep Surman and Lallana (unless a `proper' offer comes in) and that's why Lowe is doing everything he can to offload Saga, Skacel and Euell. If those three stay then Lowe will have to consider much lower offers for SUrman and Lallana. Its as simple as that.

[saintwarwick]

In the main, I almost, totally agree with you.

 

So which part of the "almost" do you disagree with then?

[ottery st mary]

So which part of the "almost" do you disagree with then?

 

The ones you did not mention...The non Saints supporters of varying types on this forum.

[NickG]

I only doubt those who spend more time and interest in supporting various current or previous board members, or moaning about them than they do ever talking about/supporting the team.

 

oh and those who desperately seek to slag club off over anything however made up!

 

apart from that we are all friends here!

[Channon's Sideburns]

Hmmmm....I think the reason that we all nail our colours to our respective masts is that we are all strong on our beliefs.

 

There should be some form of disagreement on here, simply to keep the balance. The only problem I have with some on here is how quick your comments can be jumped upon, and judged. In the past 48 hours I've been called a numpty, dinlo, and muppet.

 

Why??

 

Because I started a thread reminicing about the 6-3 win over Man U and asked about why Stoneham fell through. If other posters then question me I am going to state my view - I don't think Lowe is good for this club.

 

However, I'm not in a financial position to change things, but as a supporter since the age of 5 and a shareholder, I reserve the right to make my feelings known.

 

And, I'm not a muppet. I never stood in the Milton....

 

Let's face it, if everyone was forced to agree with everybody else where would we be??

 

Saints Boardroom???

 

Only joking.....fishing....!!

[Frank's cousin]

I think you totally misrepresented my point, which i mentioned again later.

I agree players going etc will always happen, agents, money required and all that. It was about the fun boy three and freinds suddenly jumping on any person who has a view. I do not consider you part of the Fun Boy Three by the way. I just suspect you are very close to the inner sanctum and close to the King. Good luck to you and all that...Hope it lasts..NOT.

 

You mention in another thread about people putting in money and taking over and all that...My question wouldbe to you, has Rupert ever really put any money in apart from getting shares by a back door method with the help of other greedy Directors....

 

The whole point is, as has now been proved for over 10 years, he is not good for Saints. The rapid decline in the state of Saints and everything that goes with the football club is proof enough, he is not the best person to be running the show...I see no light at the end of the tunnel with all his experiments either. We have to move on without Rupert and Michael and soon.

 

OK

 

1. 'Inner Santum'? - sorry far from it, the only person i have ever directly spoken with onone ocasion was Mr Wilde - and that was perhaps not as enlightening as I would have naively perhaps hoped - although it did provide some insights into his ideas -Ideas I might add that I would not ahev a problem with IF done in teh interests of the club and on for personal benefit.

 

Apart form that, I have on a few ocasions met Duncan (FF) if that counts? ;-)

 

2. As far as I am aware Lowe has NOT put his personal cash into the club without something in return as you mention shares - but nor has Wilde or Crouch (to any great extent). And you are right in assuming that we would ALL welcome cash injection right now from any source - but is it realistic to expect any of these guys to make a contribution... we need 5-10 mil a year to help rebuild, and even if they clubbed together they would not have this kind of money available - its one thing expecting a billionnaire to contribute 10 mil, but quite another to expect someone to put in 2 mil, if this is close to their net worth.

 

I guess expecting Rupert to put in 2 mil, is no different from teh club asking all fans to contribute say 50% of your net income form teh next 3 -4 years?

 

My gripe with Wilde was not because he did not have investment or because he was not prepared to put cash in, but because he 'promised' it and based his strategy upon it and thus his appointed board acted perhaps a little rash in a big spend supporting BUrley when we simply should have kept that cash for the rainy days to come? He promised further investmnet and this could be considered to have been misleading - I appreciate he was 'let down' by those 'talked' a big game, but surely he should have had this in written in stone before using it as a strategy to win over fans?

 

3. I have never said he is teh BEST person to run the show. But he is teh one we have and realistically the best cahnce of change will come with the club being attractive to outside purcahsers by being either on the verge of promotion or promoted, which is why I believe we shoudl be doing all we can to support the side financially even if you want Lowe out - as well as giveing the club a fighting chance of avoiding the drop.

 

What I have defended and will continue to do so is that I do see alot of merit in the overall approach that he tried but in the last 4 years has failed us - Poor implementation and timing as alluded to elsewhere - that of not being reckless, of wanting to challenge the quite irresponsible approach taken by many clubs of hiking up debts tospend on players and wages to satisfy the ambitions of fans but risking the financial future of the club - yes its a very fine line betwen ensuring you have sufficuient quality to survive and hopefull progress and over spending, especially in the prem, but is it always right to do as the others do simply because they are doing it? Many other clubs also have backers who underwrite such investment which we simply did not have.

 

So teh approach was to try and supplement this by developing youth and sports science infrastructure - a long term plan which in principle was logically sound. Sadly, it did not work out, some of which was down to Ruper, sure, but some was also down to resistence to change from within the club and the game itself, the media and fans feeling uncomfortable with it. All I am trying to convey is that these were IMHO sound ideals irrespective of who inniated them. This is not covering up mistakes made, or making excuses for cras and arrogant statements towards fans, and LOwe deserves much of teh criticism aimed against him, but if being totally fair, not all of it as we conveniently forget that some ideas were good, and teh part that bad luck and misfortune also played. Top that off with the mistakes that the Wilde board made financially and desitre for Crouch to be seen as the 'ambitious' high risk but fan friendly chair and we have where we are now.

 

Because of this and the current share ownership - which we cant do anything about unless we win the Euro millions and offer to buy teh shares, I believe that still the best way forward is unity - these three working togther from the inside not ****ing in from the outside and not necessarily agreeing on everything but WILLING to do all they can for teh good of the club. The fact that they cant see eye to eye is the worst part of this and mkes no contribution to the the future of the club.

 

If you still belive that's supporting lowe, sobeit, I cant add anything more. I support that club and will support anyone who does what they can to help no matter how painful it might be.

[CB Fry]

The club is looking to keep Surman and Lallana (unless a `proper' offer comes in) and that's why Lowe is doing everything he can to offload Saga, Skacel and Euell. If those three stay then Lowe will have to consider much lower offers for SUrman and Lallana. Its as simple as that.

 

 

This is clearly the situation - we want to shift off the high earners and keep the kids. That is the core of the plan.

 

Of course it won't stop people whining on that selling Lallana at the first opportunity is what Lowe "really wants to do" because he's evil and everything and "obsessed about money" even though selling Lallana won't actually make Lowe any money whatsoever.

 

 

 

All in all, though, this is a bit of a silly thread to start on the 14th January.

 

There's no point being smug that the kids are still here with two weeks of the window to go. Surman and Lallana could both be sold tomorrow.

 

I think it's touch and go, and the longer noone comes in to take Skacel and Euell off our hands the dicier its going to be.

 

We clearly need to sell someone and if Surman is our only sellable asset he's going to have to go.

 

It's the old "Michael Duberry rule". When Leeds were skint and had to sell some players everyone thought they would just sell Duberry and Seth Johnson to balance the books. Easy. But no-one wanted to buy them, especially on the silly money they were on.

 

Which is why Ferdinand and Woodgate were sold.

 

 

My advise for the "I told you so's" on both sides - keep your powder dry until Feb 2nd. There's a long way to go.....

[saint1977]

This is clearly the situation - we want to shift off the high earners and keep the kids. That is the core of the plan.

 

Of course it won't stop people whining on that selling Lallana at the first opportunity is what Lowe "really wants to do" because he's evil and everything and "obsessed about money" even though selling Lallana won't actually make Lowe any money whatsoever.

 

 

 

All in all, though, this is a bit of a silly thread to start on the 14th January.

 

There's no point being smug that the kids are still here with two weeks of the window to go. Surman and Lallana could both be sold tomorrow.

 

I think it's touch and go, and the longer noone comes in to take Skacel and Euell off our hands the dicier its going to be.

 

We clearly need to sell someone and if Surman is our only sellable asset he's going to have to go.

 

It's the old "Michael Duberry rule". When Leeds were skint and had to sell some players everyone thought they would just sell Duberry and Seth Johnson to balance the books. Easy. But no-one wanted to buy them, especially on the silly money they were on.

 

Which is why Ferdinand and Woodgate were sold.

 

 

My advise for the "I told you so's" on both sides - keep your powder dry until Feb 2nd. There's a long way to go.....

 

I'd go with that - look what happened on the eve of the window closing last time around (ie Skacel to Berlin and Rasiak to Bolton).

[West End Saint]

Can't wait for the transfer window to shut to be honest with a centre back and full back in that's way more than I expected if we can get to the end of the month without losing anybody I will be chuffed.

 

I just hope if that is the case and nobody leaves Jan is allowed to pick and play whoever he likes with no worries about wages appearance money

 

However back in the real world I can't see us getting to the end of the transfer window without anyone being sold I guess as everyone knows we are skint clubs are hanging out to get our players on the cheap or even more worrying noone wants them cause they think our squad is sh1t

[alpine_saint]

OK

 

1. 'Inner Santum'? - sorry far from it, the only person i have ever directly spoken with onone ocasion was Mr Wilde - and that was perhaps not as enlightening as I would have naively perhaps hoped - although it did provide some insights into his ideas -Ideas I might add that I would not ahev a problem with IF done in teh interests of the club and on for personal benefit.

 

Apart form that, I have on a few ocasions met Duncan (FF) if that counts? ;-)

 

2. As far as I am aware Lowe has NOT put his personal cash into the club without something in return as you mention shares - but nor has Wilde or Crouch (to any great extent). And you are right in assuming that we would ALL welcome cash injection right now from any source - but is it realistic to expect any of these guys to make a contribution... we need 5-10 mil a year to help rebuild, and even if they clubbed together they would not have this kind of money available - its one thing expecting a billionnaire to contribute 10 mil, but quite another to expect someone to put in 2 mil, if this is close to their net worth.

 

I guess expecting Rupert to put in 2 mil, is no different from teh club asking all fans to contribute say 50% of your net income form teh next 3 -4 years?

 

My gripe with Wilde was not because he did not have investment or because he was not prepared to put cash in, but because he 'promised' it and based his strategy upon it and thus his appointed board acted perhaps a little rash in a big spend supporting BUrley when we simply should have kept that cash for the rainy days to come? He promised further investmnet and this could be considered to have been misleading - I appreciate he was 'let down' by those 'talked' a big game, but surely he should have had this in written in stone before using it as a strategy to win over fans?

 

3. I have never said he is teh BEST person to run the show. But he is teh one we have and realistically the best cahnce of change will come with the club being attractive to outside purcahsers by being either on the verge of promotion or promoted, which is why I believe we shoudl be doing all we can to support the side financially even if you want Lowe out - as well as giveing the club a fighting chance of avoiding the drop.

 

What I have defended and will continue to do so is that I do see alot of merit in the overall approach that he tried but in the last 4 years has failed us - Poor implementation and timing as alluded to elsewhere - that of not being reckless, of wanting to challenge the quite irresponsible approach taken by many clubs of hiking up debts tospend on players and wages to satisfy the ambitions of fans but risking the financial future of the club - yes its a very fine line betwen ensuring you have sufficuient quality to survive and hopefull progress and over spending, especially in the prem, but is it always right to do as the others do simply because they are doing it? Many other clubs also have backers who underwrite such investment which we simply did not have.

 

So teh approach was to try and supplement this by developing youth and sports science infrastructure - a long term plan which in principle was logically sound. Sadly, it did not work out, some of which was down to Ruper, sure, but some was also down to resistence to change from within the club and the game itself, the media and fans feeling uncomfortable with it. All I am trying to convey is that these were IMHO sound ideals irrespective of who inniated them. This is not covering up mistakes made, or making excuses for cras and arrogant statements towards fans, and LOwe deserves much of teh criticism aimed against him, but if being totally fair, not all of it as we conveniently forget that some ideas were good, and teh part that bad luck and misfortune also played. Top that off with the mistakes that the Wilde board made financially and desitre for Crouch to be seen as the 'ambitious' high risk but fan friendly chair and we have where we are now.

 

Because of this and the current share ownership - which we cant do anything about unless we win the Euro millions and offer to buy teh shares, I believe that still the best way forward is unity - these three working togther from the inside not ****ing in from the outside and not necessarily agreeing on everything but WILLING to do all they can for teh good of the club. The fact that they cant see eye to eye is the worst part of this and mkes no contribution to the the future of the club.

 

If you still belive that's supporting lowe, sobeit, I cant add anything more. I support that club and will support anyone who does what they can to help no matter how painful it might be.

 

Bloody hell, Frank.....:smt104

[ottery st mary]

OK

 

1. 'Inner Santum'? - sorry far from it, the only person i have ever directly spoken with onone ocasion was Mr Wilde - and that was perhaps not as enlightening as I would have naively perhaps hoped - although it did provide some insights into his ideas -Ideas I might add that I would not ahev a problem with IF done in teh interests of the club and on for personal benefit.

 

Apart form that, I have on a few ocasions met Duncan (FF) if that counts? ;-)

 

2. As far as I am aware Lowe has NOT put his personal cash into the club without something in return as you mention shares - but nor has Wilde or Crouch (to any great extent). And you are right in assuming that we would ALL welcome cash injection right now from any source - but is it realistic to expect any of these guys to make a contribution... we need 5-10 mil a year to help rebuild, and even if they clubbed together they would not have this kind of money available - its one thing expecting a billionnaire to contribute 10 mil, but quite another to expect someone to put in 2 mil, if this is close to their net worth.

 

I guess expecting Rupert to put in 2 mil, is no different from teh club asking all fans to contribute say 50% of your net income form teh next 3 -4 years?

 

My gripe with Wilde was not because he did not have investment or because he was not prepared to put cash in, but because he 'promised' it and based his strategy upon it and thus his appointed board acted perhaps a little rash in a big spend supporting BUrley when we simply should have kept that cash for the rainy days to come? He promised further investmnet and this could be considered to have been misleading - I appreciate he was 'let down' by those 'talked' a big game, but surely he should have had this in written in stone before using it as a strategy to win over fans?

 

3. I have never said he is teh BEST person to run the show. But he is teh one we have and realistically the best cahnce of change will come with the club being attractive to outside purcahsers by being either on the verge of promotion or promoted, which is why I believe we shoudl be doing all we can to support the side financially even if you want Lowe out - as well as giveing the club a fighting chance of avoiding the drop.

 

What I have defended and will continue to do so is that I do see alot of merit in the overall approach that he tried but in the last 4 years has failed us - Poor implementation and timing as alluded to elsewhere - that of not being reckless, of wanting to challenge the quite irresponsible approach taken by many clubs of hiking up debts tospend on players and wages to satisfy the ambitions of fans but risking the financial future of the club - yes its a very fine line betwen ensuring you have sufficuient quality to survive and hopefull progress and over spending, especially in the prem, but is it always right to do as the others do simply because they are doing it? Many other clubs also have backers who underwrite such investment which we simply did not have.

 

So teh approach was to try and supplement this by developing youth and sports science infrastructure - a long term plan which in principle was logically sound. Sadly, it did not work out, some of which was down to Ruper, sure, but some was also down to resistence to change from within the club and the game itself, the media and fans feeling uncomfortable with it. All I am trying to convey is that these were IMHO sound ideals irrespective of who inniated them. This is not covering up mistakes made, or making excuses for cras and arrogant statements towards fans, and LOwe deserves much of teh criticism aimed against him, but if being totally fair, not all of it as we conveniently forget that some ideas were good, and teh part that bad luck and misfortune also played. Top that off with the mistakes that the Wilde board made financially and desitre for Crouch to be seen as the 'ambitious' high risk but fan friendly chair and we have where we are now.

 

Because of this and the current share ownership - which we cant do anything about unless we win the Euro millions and offer to buy teh shares, I believe that still the best way forward is unity - these three working togther from the inside not ****ing in from the outside and not necessarily agreeing on everything but WILLING to do all they can for teh good of the club. The fact that they cant see eye to eye is the worst part of this and mkes no contribution to the the future of the club.

 

If you still belive that's supporting lowe, sobeit, I cant add anything more. I support that club and will support anyone who does what they can to help no matter how painful it might be.

 

Yes, Bloody Hell Frank.