Pellegrino OUT

[OldNick]

With MoPe, as ludicrous as it feels to say it, we could scrape our way to survival through bore draws, a surprise win or 2 against an underperforming crap team and (mainly if we’re being honest) because 3 other teams are even worse than us.

 

With Kelvin and Rahdi we could easily become a hopeless, 6 straight defeats, relegation team like West Brom or Villa and Sunderland in recent years. One was a championship goalkeeper, the other is a mediocre U23 coach who really hasn’t moved any mountains even at that level.

 

Cue the "yes but Adkins.... don’t need to be a top player to be a good manger... but you never know... etc." Posts but for every Adkins, Wenger etc. There are a thousand Dodds and Wigleys. It’s the managerial equivalent of being in massive debt, so scraping together the last of your savings and sticking it all on 23 on a roulette table.

One thing about Kelvin is that he ont take any underperformances from players

[Miltonaggro]

Pellegrino is what is known as The Master

 

PMSL

 

 

Perhaps the Master...Bater!

 

Anyone who can get Carillo a £30 grand a week pay rise is certainly the Master of something...

[the saint in winchester]

One thing about Kelvin is that he ont take any underperformances from players

 

He took underperformance from Forster for most of the season. Did he get involved in the coaching of the goalkeeper? If no, why not? If yes, he failed to inspire.

[DT]

If Kelvin bloody Davis is the future then it's all over

[for_heaven's_Saint]

It seems he’s here for the season regardless of anything that happens. He can just keep doing the same old **** and he’s safe in his job.

[Lighthouse]

One thing about Kelvin is that he ont take any underperformances from players

 

Forster has been underperforming almost continuously since Kelvin joined the coaching team, so why would he be any tougher on poor performances than MoPe is now? If anything I’d worry about him being too cosy with all the players and staff and being ‘one of the lads’.

[saint77]

Forster has been underperforming almost continuously since Kelvin joined the coaching team, so why would he be any tougher on poor performances than MoPe is now? If anything I’d worry about him being too cosy with all the players and staff and being ‘one of the lads’.

 

has forster played since kelvins appointment ?

[Give it to Ron]

 

Mauricio Pellegrino says he's as frustrated as the fans are with his side's lack of goals this season The Southampton manager says he doesn't send his team out with a negative approach

Edited 9 March, 2018 by Give it to Ron

[Maggie May]

Surely Pellegrino is just one tweak away in the system to turning us into a deadly side.

 

That is scoring goals.

 

If that can happen, I'm ok. We're difficult to beat. You can't deny that.

[Lighthouse]

has forster played since kelvins appointment ?

 

He’s been in a non-playing role for 18 months now. I struggle to believe he had no input on the coaching side at all, before Black was fired.

[Give it to Ron]

He’s been in a non-playing role for 18 months now.

 

Fraser or Kelvin ?

[skintsaint]

I'm surprised FF hasn't been working his nuts off to get back in the side for the WC. At this rate AM had way more chance of going. (if two of Hart, Butland, Pickford or Heaton get injured!)

[Give it to Ron]

Surely Pellegrino is just one tweak away in the system to turning us into a deadly side.

 

That is scoring goals.

 

If that can happen, I'm ok. We're difficult to beat. You can't deny that.

 

Maybe but its the lack of tweak..look at first half on Saturday - I get he may not want to start 2 strikers but he could have swapped wingers over after 20 mins and then back - alternate the number 10 and tried Redmond there - our first shot was after 45 mins of numbing rubbish.

Second half Sims did it....but why wait until then and not until 67 mins did he change it.

 

I want him to succeed I really do even though I think he is tactically naive but he isn't showing anything but being a frightened rabbit.

[Batman]

Maybe but its the lack of tweak..look at first half on Saturday - I get he may not want to start 2 strikers but he could have swapped wingers over after 20 mins and then back - alternate the number 10 and tried Redmond there - our first shot was after 45 mins of numbing rubbish.

Second half Sims did it....but why wait until then and not until 67 mins did he change it.

 

I want him to succeed I really do even though I think he is tactically naive but he isn't showing anything but being a frightened rabbit.

 

He won't make any meaningful changes to win of we are plodding along tomorrow, whilst it remains level

[Saint Albert]

Pellegrino is what is known as The Master

 

PMSL

 

 

Thank goodness for that. Here’s me thinking Pellegrino is ****. I am thankful that Mr. Carrillo has disabused me of my misconception.

[bazza]

The absolute bottom line is that Reed and the board are responsible, and things will not improve until they are removed.

 

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^This.

[Matthew Le God]

The absolute bottom line is that Reed and the board are responsible, and things will not improve until they are removed.

 

^This.

 

How do you both know for certain Gao hasn't vetoed a sacking of Pellegrino? If that is the case (and I'm not saying it definitely is) then it would be out of Reed & Krueger's hands.

Edited 9 March, 2018 by Matthew Le God

[Crab Lungs]

How do you both know for certain Gao hasn't vetoed a sacking of Pellegrino? If that is the case (and I'm not saying it definitely is) then it would be out of Reed & Krueger's hands.

 

Any reason why you keep saying this? Literally everyone thinks it's mental he's still in charge, and I'd like to think Gao would have at least a little bit of savvy to realise the bloke is absolute dog toffee at his job.

[Give it to Ron]

How do you both know for certain Gao hasn't vetoed a sacking of Pellegrino? If that is the case (and I'm not saying it definitely is) then it would be out of Reed & Krueger's hands.

 

For what reason?

[Matthew Le God]

Any reason why you keep saying this?

 

Because it is a possibility that is overlooked. It may well not be true, but it is jumping to conclusions to think it is solely down to Krueger and/or Reed.

 

Literally everyone thinks it's mental he's still in charge, and I'd like to think Gao would have at least a little bit of savvy to realise the bloke is absolute dog toffee at his job.

 

Then why hasn't Gao acted and sacked him?

 

For what reason?

 

No idea, but do we know that it isn't the case?

[Lighthouse]

How do you both know for certain Gao hasn't vetoed a sacking of Pellegrino? If that is the case (and I'm not saying it definitely is) then it would be out of Reed & Krueger's hands.

 

If I was a position in my job where someone above me was overruling my decisions on the main elements of my job description AND doing it very badly AND allowing everyone else to think it was through my own incompetence, I’d resign immediately. Only an utter mug would allow that kind of situation.

 

You might as well say MoPe is a top European manager but Gao emails him the team sheet and tactics the morning before each game. Or perhaps Forster is The worlds number one goalkeeper but he is under specific orders from Gao to wait one second before diving for any shots.

[Shroppie]

has forster played since kelvins appointment ?

No.

 

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[Give it to Ron]

Because it is a possibility that is overlooked. It may well not be true, but it is jumping to conclusions to think it is solely down to Krueger and/or Reed.

 

 

 

Then why hasn't Gao acted and sacked him?

 

 

 

No idea, but do we know that it isn't the case?

If your theory was true would Les/Kruegar be in the changing rooms and on the pitch having been told what to do against their wishes?

 

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[richardc]

He is what we call a master,” says Carrillo. “He is a person who teaches the players how to be better

[Miltonaggro]

He is what we call a master,” says Carrillo. “He is a person who teaches the players how to be better

 

Is 'master' an Argentine slang term for 'chancer' or 'inept tosspot' - we may be losing something in translation!

[Dark Munster]

Surely Pellegrino is just one tweak away in the system to turning us into a deadly side.

 

That is scoring goals.

 

If that can happen, I'm ok. We're difficult to beat. You can't deny that.

I'm not sure about a deadly side, but he is just one tweak away from turning us into a decent side. Resigning.

[Batman]

Adam had a decent interview with him

Asking him that why won't he go for it as he will likely lose his job anyway at the end of the season, regardless of where we end up

 

MP just waffled on

[Maggie May]

I'm not sure about a deadly side, but he is just one tweak away from turning us into a decent side. Resigning.

 

I want that to happen. I just don't know the alternative. A realistic one.

 

Think we're waving goodbye to the Prem for a long time. Sad.

[Saint Albert]

Adam had a decent interview with him

Asking him that why won't he go for it as he will likely lose his job anyway at the end of the season, regardless of where we end up

 

MP just waffled on

 

Blackmore poses some difficult questions to Pellegrino. I listened to the interview here...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p060ltw9

 

Hopefully the link works. Adam Blackmore questions Pellegrino’s tactics (such as the lone striker seeming isolated at times, and why not start Gabbiadini from the beginning considering the positive impact he had coming on against Burnley). His points are similar to the comments often made on here so it’s worth listening to but Pellegrino defends his corner and does not sound like he’s likely to change anytime soon. Some of Pellegrino’s points...

 

The players don’t play with “chains” preventing them from attacking.

He’s made many changes to the side. Bertrand and Cedric are the only ones he hasn’t changed.

Saints are third in the league for playing in the opposing third of the pitch.

Burnley are 7th in the league but have created less than Saints.

[saint michael]

Interesting article thanks for posting. Probably the first time he has let his guard down a little to show his philosophy.

 

He clearly thinks it’s about possession and quotes data which helps him look like he is making progress, another being the playing in their half as you say. He seems to have forgotten about what football is about and that his job is ALL about results. He speaks about Burnley as a negative because of their style of play and they just happen to be efficient in converting chances.

 

He clearly believes in style over content...sadly we have neither.

 

There is no recognition that when teams set up a defensively Saints have prepared and know what they have to do to break this down. What are your tactics MP not your structure

[Lorry_Mack]

Blackmore poses some difficult questions to Pellegrino. I listened to the interview here...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p060ltw9

 

Hopefully the link works. Adam Blackmore questions Pellegrino’s tactics (such as the lone striker seeming isolated at times, and why not start Gabbiadini from the beginning considering the positive impact he had coming on against Burnley). His points are similar to the comments often made on here so it’s worth listening to but Pellegrino defends his corner and does not sound like he’s likely to change anytime soon. Some of Pellegrino’s points...

 

The players don’t play with “chains” preventing them from attacking.

He’s made many changes to the side. Bertrand and Cedric are the only ones he hasn’t changed.

Saints are third in the league for playing in the opposing third of the pitch.

Burnley are 7th in the league but have created less than Saints.

 

Good interview from Adam B. MP is clearly in denial of the reality of the situation. If that’s his mind set that explains why he keeps repeating the same mistakes and he will never learn because he can’t see the problems he’s making for himself.

 

I agree with MP, that changing players helps (e.g. eventually making obvious changes like dropping players who were completely out of form, such as Forster and Redmond or picking Austin as your most natural goal scorer). Another crazy notion I know, but why not just pick your best / most in form players in the first place and play them in their best position?

 

If you’re system is set up is wrong in the first place, including the way you are instructing players to play - it ultimately doesn’t seem to matter who plays (re: MP player chains comments) as the same turgid football appears, so this doesn’t square either.

 

If we’d gone for it and ended up turning 6 draws into 3 wins and 3 defeats it’s not rocket science that you will end up with more points. Another aspect that seems lost on the negative, we mustn’t lose mindset that MP has (understandable tactics away at Man City, but not at home to Stoke etc..).

 

I’m struggling to see a single benefit to keeping MP until the end of the season. Don’t think we can do any worse with another person in charge, providing that they are prepared to go for it and proactively try to win games.

 

 

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[Batman]

Pellegrino has made us an incredibly boring side with nothing to highlight in our mindset, style and sadly the future

 

Disgraceful manager

[saint1977]

Good interview from Adam B. MP is clearly in denial of the reality of the situation. If that’s his mind set that explains why he keeps repeating the same mistakes and he will never learn because he can’t see the problems he’s making for himself.

 

I agree with MP, that changing players helps (e.g. eventually making obvious changes like dropping players who were completely out of form, such as Forster and Redmond or picking Austin as your most natural goal scorer). Another crazy notion I know, but why not just pick your best / most in form players in the first place and play them in their best position?

 

If you’re system is set up is wrong in the first place, including the way you are instructing players to play - it ultimately doesn’t seem to matter who plays (re: MP player chains comments) as the same turgid football appears, so this doesn’t square either.

 

If we’d gone for it and ended up turning 6 draws into 3 wins and 3 defeats it’s not rocket science that you will end up with more points. Another aspect that seems lost on the negative, we mustn’t lose mindset that MP has (understandable tactics away at Man City, but not at home to Stoke etc..).

 

I’m struggling to see a single benefit to keeping MP until the end of the season. Don’t think we can do any worse with another person in charge, providing that they are prepared to go for it and proactively try to win games.

 

 

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MP is a head case, I’ve said this for a while. If even Adam Blackmore seems to think that, you’ve got to wonder how deluded it is inside SFC itself. He should be put on gardening leave for pastoral and professional reasons and should have been some time ago, but you’ve got to question why Reed, Kreuger and Gao are going along with it. I suspect the total bewilderment of the football world that someone like that can hold a high profile job may be a cover but for what I don’t know.

 

Shame that the players are so well paid, I suspect 20 years ago the players would have revolted but this current lot are sit on huge wages and their agents will be lining up summer moves as I write. Sad that the club is being ruined like this for a generation, think I will be watching a lot more of the Exeter Chiefs now

[sotonjoe]

Pellegrino has made us an incredibly boring side with nothing to highlight in our mindset, style and sadly the future

 

Disgraceful manager

 

Batman has made this an incredibly boring forum with nothing to highlight in his mindset, style and sadly the future

 

Disgraceful ‘fan’

 

 

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[Whitey Grandad]

We used to be known as a side that played attractive attacking football. Nobody would pay to watch us these days except for the chronically dedicated.

[saint1977]

Interesting article thanks for posting. Probably the first time he has let his guard down a little to show his philosophy.

 

He clearly thinks it’s about possession and quotes data which helps him look like he is making progress, another being the playing in their half as you say. He seems to have forgotten about what football is about and that his job is ALL about results. He speaks about Burnley as a negative because of their style of play and they just happen to be efficient in converting chances.

 

He clearly believes in style over content...sadly we have neither.

 

There is no recognition that when teams set up a defensively Saints have prepared and know what they have to do to break this down. What are your tactics MP not your structure

 

He reminds me of Peter Moores when he was England cricket coach talking about analysing the data when it was pretty clear to all but the insane that England’s ODI tactics were dreadfully out of date and we’d just been hammered by Bangladesh and the less said about the NZ and Aus games the better. Difference is Moore’s at least is a successful county coach, I can’t see that MP would be any better or less loathed if he managed in League 2. He’s at best deluded. How any of the players or staff can respect him I have no idea

[Heisenberg]

We used to be known as a side that played attractive attacking football. Nobody would pay to watch us these days except for the chronically dedicated.

 

The "Southampton way"

 

Or the - "les reed" way

[Suhari]

We used to be known as a side that played attractive attacking football. Nobody would pay to watch us these days except for the chronically dedicated.

 

This.

 

We've totally lost our way under Puel and now MoPe. We had an identity before, now we're just turgid rubbish. Now some of this of course sits with Reed etc....but that should let MoPe off the hook in any way.

 

Dismal manager, totally out of his depth.

[Lorry_Mack]

We used to be known as a side that played attractive attacking football. Nobody would pay to watch us these days except for the chronically dedicated.

 

Yep, completely agree. Prior to Puel, we’ve had a number of managers since ML took us over, all different (Pardew, Nige, MP and RK), but all played positively and tried to take the game to the opposition.

 

Puel and the current MP sadly seem to be typical of the current negative / non-effective (but high possession stats) / ponderous / don’t get beaten coaches that Premier League teams seem to be employing in growing numbers. There’s a reason why the likes of Serie A matches are typically played in front of half empty stadiums.

 

 

 

 

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[lordswoodsaints]

Relegation, parachute money raped by the owners , owners sell up on the cheap and walk away with a big smile and bank balance.....the plan is working perfectly.

[Saint Pete]

The thing that strikes me about that MP interview is that the man just sounds so powerless to do anything about our situation. There just doesn't seem to be any acceptance on his part that he and the team need to do anything different to get over our problems of not scoring enough goals and not supporting the main striker enough. You would expect to hear something to reassure us that they are taking positive steps to address the clear deficiencies in our performances and results, but there is precious little of that.

 

The plan seems to be that we continue the same approach because the stats say we are 3rd best at getting into the opposing third of the pitch and hope that the results and goals will just come naturally!

 

I hope he is right and it all turns our way this afternoon but can't say I am confident!

 

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[Wrensup]

Yep, completely agree. Prior to Puel, we’ve had a number of managers since ML took us over, all different (Pardew, Nige, MP and RK), but all played positively and tried to take the game to the opposition.

 

Puel and the current MP sadly seem to be typical of the current negative / non-effective (but high possession stats) / ponderous / don’t get beaten coaches that Premier League teams seem to be employing in growing numbers. There’s a reason why the likes of Serie A matches are typically played in front of half empty stadiums.

 

 

 

 

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Series A stadiums are often half empty, because most are council owned and are in chronic need of modernisation, not the football. There’s actually been a revival in Italian football that’s occurred with a new outlook and onus on attacking, in fact more goals were scored in Serie A than the Premier League last season.

[sadoldgit]

Relegation, parachute money raped by the owners , owners sell up on the cheap and walk away with a big smile and bank balance.....the plan is working perfectly.

 

Dont we get more money if we stay up?

[Lighthouse]

Dont we get more money if we stay up?

 

Correct. The idea that the owners somehow make a massive wedge of cash from going down is absurd.

 

Remind me again which billionaires made their fortune from buying expensive, successful companies, ruining them deliberately and flogging them for next to nothing when bankrupt?

[diggers]

But relegation would be the perfect excuse for a mass player liquidation, "they had a clause in their contract" blah blah

[Heisenberg]

But relegation would be the perfect excuse for a mass player liquidation, "they had a clause in their contract" blah blah

 

Tbf the club do OK with selling our players without the need for excuses.

 

It's about all they are good at

[Lighthouse]

But relegation would be the perfect excuse for a mass player liquidation, "they had a clause in their contract" blah blah

 

As a plan goes, that’s like buying a successful airline and selling all the planes to make money.

 

Selling all the best players will do nothing but hurt the company. How much do you think Saints will be worth if were bottom half of the Championship with nobody left worth selling, only average players on big contracts, who nobody wants, like Long, Carrillo and Davis.

[danjosaint]

Batman has made this an incredibly boring forum with nothing to highlight in his mindset, style and sadly the future

 

Disgraceful ‘fan’

 

 

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But it's true what he says

[Ashby Saint]

As a plan goes, that’s like buying a successful airline and selling all the planes to make money.

 

Selling all the best players will do nothing but hurt the company. How much do you think Saints will be worth if were bottom half of the Championship with nobody left worth selling, only average players on big contracts, who nobody wants, like Long, Carrillo and Davis.

 

This works if you are trying to make money, but what if the objective is to get money out of the country. Spend £200M on club, recoup £75M on Van Dyk, leaving £125M to get when you walk away from the club. You could make that from selling the squad and pocketing the parachute payments.

[CB Fry]

This works if you are trying to make money, but what if the objective is to get money out of the country. Spend £200M on club, recoup £75M on Van Dyk, leaving £125M to get when you walk away from the club. You could make that from selling the squad and pocketing the parachute payments.

Why did we spent twenty million and his fat four year contract on Carrillo then?

 

How does that fit this masterplan?