Pellegrino OUT

[Monk]

Needs to play in the hole behind the striker .....wasted on the wing in my opinion

 

and your opinion is 100% fact.

 

Team should be built around him as a 10.

[Viking Saint]

and your opinion is 100% fact.

 

Team should be built around him as a 10.

 

Agree, he's able to do things none of our other players can. He may lose the ball but at least he tries to make things happen.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Has to be sacked this week after yet another brainless selection of Redmond and Tadic in the Mogadon one up front formation. We are all losing interest.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a bunch of wet fannies.

 

Keep convincing yourselves that it’s the managers fault. I said all along that Puel did a ****ing good job with the players he was given. What on earth makes people think that we’d be any better this season. Do people really think that Rafa or Silva or even Jose Mourinho would have had us much higher than 8th last season? People are ****ing deluded, we have a ****ing average squad.

 

We have a worse manager than Puel and guess what, we’re going to finish lower. Why are you chumps surprised?

 

 

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Edited 15 October, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[Pedro]

Speaks volumes that we haven't sung the names of Puel or Pelligrino, no inspiration on the pitch to warrant it.

[eelpie]

I was firmly in the camp that wanted Puel to go. But I foolishly believed in the hype from the club that managers (with players) all over the world are constantly being scouted so any eventuality can be taken care of.

we have gotten rid of a dull, stiff manager and found one even worse.

 

awful so far from him and like puel, he will do well to last beyond xmas as if he is still here by then, we will be struggling to maintain a position outside of the bottom 3. terrible manager

 

An emotional response. We can't keep changing managers every time we're experiencing bad spells. We should have learned that lesson when we were relegated, and so be warned.

[hypochondriac]

An emotional response. We can't keep changing managers every time we're experiencing bad spells. We should have learned that lesson when we were relegated, and so be warned.

Its not really an emotional response is it. It's a response based on the fact we have seen no positive change from last season. If we got rid of puel because of the style of play and the poor performances then I'm assuming pellegrino shouldn't be feeling particularly comfortable. I'd give him until Christmas at the moment but if we are hovering around the relegation zone then I would get rid and bring in someone more willing to change our style of play to suit the players we have at our disposal.

[Lord Duckhunter]

An emotional response. We can't keep changing managers every time we're experiencing bad spells. We should have learned that lesson when we were relegated, and so be warned.

 

No, we should have accepted that 8th & a cup final with this ****ing squad was the best it gets. You reap what you sow.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

Edit: double post.

[Heisenberg]

As the days go by the more magical last season becomes

 

Puel averaged 1.2 points per game. Pellegrino 1.1

 

They are both **** managers.

 

Arguing over Puel vs Pellegrino is like asking if you want a broken left arm or right arm..... You dont want either.

 

Clear out from top to bottom needed ASAP (rocky)

[Matthew Le God]

Arguing over Puel vs Pellegrino is like asking if you want a broken left arm or right arm..... You dont want neither.

 

 

That is a double negative and thus cancels out! If you "don't want neither"... then you do want one of them.

[LGTL]

Just because MP has been horrendous, doesn't mean Puel is suddenly a ****ing genius. Appointing Puel in the position we were in (very attractive, in Europe) has to be one of the worst decisions this club has ever made.

[Gemmel]

 

That is a double negative and thus cancels out! If you "don't want neither"... then you do want one of them.

 

FFS.FO

[Donatello]

This thread is ridiculous.

[Lord Duckhunter]

has to be one of the worst decisions this club has ever made.

 

 

Dear god

 

 

 

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[Jonnyboy]

We should change managers every 10 games and Batman and hypochondriac should take turns in choosing the new managers.

 

Lol

[Micky]

An emotional response. We can't keep changing managers every time we're experiencing bad spells. We should have learned that lesson when we were relegated, and so be warned.

 

It would appear that many on here think that is exactly what we can do. Perhaps we should just employ the next guy on a ten game contract. Would save an awful lot of hassle.

 

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[SaintJackoInHurworth]

Firstly, a disclaimer: I live up North so don't get to see Saints as often as I would like and have not seen a live match yet this season (just two pre-season matches against Augsburg and Sevilla) so I cannot claim to know better than those who have been to see us play.

 

Nevertheless, I do find myself wondering if some of the comments on here are rather knee-jerk reactions to the disappointment of seeing us fail to win a match we would normally expect to win.

 

Whether Pellegrino is failing to deliver or not I think it would be very difficult for the club to even contemplate sacking him just yet. I think there are a number of significant considerations that need to be taken into account:

 

1. We are only 5 points behind Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool.

2. We are above Everton, West Ham, West Brom and Leicester - all teams who have finished around us or above us in the last couple of years.

3. We rarely have a great start to the season - some of the last few seasons have seen us achieve better starts than we would normally expect.

4. The Van Dijk situation affected our start to the season and it will take time to deal with the aftermath of that.

5. Pellegrino has never managed in England before so needs time to adjust to the Premier League and the style of football of some English teams.

6. A number of players have been injured.

7. A number of players are suffering with low confidence going back to the Puel era and maybe even before.

8. We have had a number of interruptions to the season so far and have not yet had a long spell of stability for the squad.

9. The preferred option for a manager may well have been Thomas Tuchel but he ruled himself out of the running early on.

10. The other option for a manager was Frank De Boer. Would people have preferred we appointed him bearing in mind what has happened at Palace?

11. To those claiming we should have appointed an English manager rather than a foreign one, may I ask which English managers have made a huge success of management in England including taking teams to the Champions League or Europa League? And which of them have also developed young players and played an exciting brand of attacking football? Dyche and Howe aside most have struggled - and Howe is not doing so well this season so far!

12. As an extension of the above point, both Pochettino and Koeman were foreign managers and both achieved unprecedented success beyond what was expected of them.

13. For those wanting a manager with a record of success managing in the UK, the list of managers that we have had who may fit that bill includes Harry Redknapp, Paul Sturrock and Ian Branfoot.

14. One of our strikers has just managed to score two goals in a match, which could signal a change in fortunes and confidence - not really the time to be sacking our manager.

 

I am not saying that I think Pellegrino is doing a great job - clearly we should be doing better than we are when we have arguably the best squad we have had for a couple of years - maybe potentially better than the squads managed by Koeman and Pochettino. What I am saying is that it is too early to think about sacking him yet.

[hypochondriac]

I think the worry is with how easy our start has been, we could easily be sucked into a relegation scrap.

[Badger]

I think he's on track to be removed by Xmas but frankly I think we'd be better off getting rid of him now.

 

It just isn't working, his stubborn insistence on 1 up front and sticking with players who cannot score has really corroded confidence and I don't see any attempt to try out other formations and alternative players. Austin has been all but discarded which is crazy when we hardly ever score.

 

He's out of his depth, we are sinking, players confidence is shot and crucially I see no attempt at change...........so why wait?

 

The reason we will most probably have to wait is that there is no one in a position to make the decision. For Reed to remove Pellegrino it is an admission of his own failings over the appointment in the first place, and I we are lead to believe Reed is the decision maker for football related issues. Unless of course Ralph wants to take matters by the scruff of the neck and act (perhaps he should, but sacking a manager is an "easy" decision, the hard decision is selecting the replacement).

 

Perhaps it's too early for the Gao's to have their own football adviser or consultant, but if they do then let's hope its an improvement on that guiding other Chinese owners, or we'll end up with a failed name such as Zola.

[tobes8]

Not fussed where they come from but IMO Reed looks there in the hope of finding the next Poch and ensuring his ego is massaged as some form of manager discovery genius.

 

Nailed it.....problem lies with reed, with a managerial record as good as his then how on earth does he end up as head honcho with us.

[Badger]

Well, we will need a high profile European manager with just enough vague plausibility to get everyone excited (Emery, Tuchel) before we don't appoint them and snap up a middling no-mark who just so happens to be unemployed. It's worked for two summers so why break it?

 

So let's all pretend it's going to be Ancellotti before we end up recruiting some 38 year old with nice hair whose had two good seasons in Belgium but resigned in September.

 

Bring it on.

 

Yes, the bloke from Anderlecht. The Black Box has been monitoring him for two seasons. Pure co-incidence he's currently available. Honest.

[Gemmel]

Nailed it.....problem lies with reed, with a managerial record as good as his then how on earth does he end up as head honcho with us.

 

His CV as "Director Of Football" is comparable to the very best in the world. That's not me defending him, that is just fact. Reed won't be going anywhere soon.

[Dangermouth]

Thought about this quite a lot after that game. It seems not only VVD is not trying their hardest and I do wonder if the manager has anything to do with it. Today's game at time looked like a Sunday league one and I do think we will be looking for a new manager next year. I hope we'll still be in this division as we do so. I do now believe that a good manager e.g. Silva would do better with this team. Yes, we really do need quite a lot of upgrades but a better manager/tactician/someone who doesn't come across as at times only being capable of quoting the training manual would and could get us more points. For now I think we should sacrifice good football (from years ago, remember that?) for points. As for the Southampton project and 5 year plan, I think they're royally bugg ered.

[hypochondriac]

I'm not really one for wanting managers sacked without being given a fair crack, but have to admit MP is looking horrifically out of his depth and as others have said, worryingly there is no sign of improvement. The fact that some are pining for Puel shows how bad it is.

 

My main concern is who to get in if we did sack him as there's hardly an abundance of inspiring names out there who would be willing to come here. I would give him a few more games but if we are still plodding along in the same way with the same stubborn team selections then it probably becomes time to act.

Pretty much this. No one was begging for stuart gray to be given more time when he was clearly out of his depth. Like you I'd give him a bit longer but when nothing has changed from last year then what is the point in persisting?

[Micky]

His CV as "Director Of Football" is comparable to the very best in the world. That's not me defending him, that is just fact. Reed won't be going anywhere soon.

Good to see fair and balanced comment. I see many people on here saying that they want him out, but rarely do they cite anybody better to take his place. Sometimes in life you don't know what you've got until you've lost it, I really don't think that those calling for him to go understand his credentials.

 

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[Dark Munster]

Just because MP has been horrendous, doesn't mean Puel is suddenly a ****ing genius. Appointing Puel in the position we were in (very attractive, in Europe) has to be one of the worst decisions this club has ever made.

Apart from Br*nf**t, Gray, Wigley, Saggy, Poortvliet, Wotte, Wilkins, Gorman/Dodd, and that overrated tosspot Souness.

[hypochondriac]

Good to see fair and balanced comment. I see many people on here saying that they want him out, but rarely do they cite anybody better to take his place. Sometimes in life you don't know what you've got until you've lost it, I really don't think that those calling for him to go understand his credentials.

 

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Let's be honest no one on here really knows his credentials. We have zero idea what decisions he has or has not been personally responsible for. Personally I wouldn't be pushing for his removal because I don't know what financial constraints he has been under.

[hypochondriac]

Apart from Br*nf**t, Gray, Wigley, Saggy, Poortvliet, Wotte, Wilkins, Gorman/Dodd, and that overrated tosspot Souness.

And Woodward.

[Micky]

Let's be honest no one on here really knows his credentials. We have zero idea what decisions he has or has not been personally responsible for. Personally I wouldn't be pushing for his removal because I don't know what financial constraints he has been under.

If we don't know what he does or what decisions he makes, why are so many calling for him to go, as so many are. Personally i think he is doing a good job, i also have no idea who i would replace him with if he were sacked.

 

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[hypochondriac]

If we don't know what he does or what decisions he makes, why are so many calling for him to go, as so many are. Personally i think he is doing a good job, i also have no idea who i would replace him with if he were sacked.

 

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No idea maybe you should aim that question at those who are saying that. The only beef I ever had with him was his interviews talking about players staying and then selling players afterwards. I don't have an extensive knowledge of people who do the same job as Reed but I imagine when he does leave we will do our homework and hopefully get someone in decent. I will say though that I think if he was ultimately responsible for the last two managerial appointments then he has messed up a bit.

[SaintBobby]

He seems pretty clueless. Can't see we have made any progress since last season.

 

Worse still, he seems to be making a moderately good team look pretty damned awful.

 

I'm not much in favour of wielding the axe, but I think I would in this instance. Just can't see what's going to improve otherwise.

[Shanghai Saint]

Would love to get Strachan back. We played some good stuff under him.

[wadesmith]

As the days go by the more magical last season becomes

 

Puel averaged 1.2 points per game. Pellegrino 1.1

 

They are both **** managers.

 

Arguing over Puel vs Pellegrino is like asking if you want a broken left arm or right arm..... You dont want either.

 

Clear out from top to bottom needed ASAP (rocky)

 

Umm..I'm not willing to give my exact reasons, but if I had to choose it would be a broken left arm. As I said the reasons for this choice are not important.

[Red]

What a bunch of wet fannies.

 

Keep convincing yourselves that it’s the managers fault. I said all along that Puel did a ****ing good job with the players he was given. What on earth makes people think that we’d be any better this season. Do people really think that Rafa or Silva or even Jose Mourinho would have had us much higher than 8th last season? People are ****ing deluded, we have a ****ing average squad.

 

We have a worse manager than Puel and guess what, we’re going to finish lower. Why are you chumps surprised?

 

 

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All about opinions I guess, but look at how we played today (and other games), too many side ways and back passes, and checking when in their final third, instead of moving the ball early and having a go first time, and particularly outside the box - that's how they got their goal, even if tree trunk should have done better.

 

Our defense (other than FF, or should it be FFF) is okish, Lemina is great, OR seems to have gone backwards lately, but for crying out loud just up the tempo and shoot at goal - we make chances but seem too scared to have a go. That IMHO is down to the cautious attitude handed down by the manager - ergo his fault! The PL these days has developed technically and most teams are well organised defensively and hence very hard to score against, and the main way around this is to hit them quickly before they have time to organise themselves - Man City are masters at this this season. We do well until the opposition final third and then slow up - this is purely down to tactics and manager instructions, or at the very least MP should sort it, and so in my books very much down to him. I would give him until Jan to sort or he goes with Van D~~khead.

[Pamplemousse]

Apart from Br*nf**t, Gray, Wigley, Saggy, Poortvliet, Wotte, Wilkins, Gorman/Dodd, and that overrated tosspot Souness.

 

You missed off Sturrock

[Pamplemousse]

Good to see fair and balanced comment. I see many people on here saying that they want him out, but rarely do they cite anybody better to take his place. Sometimes in life you don't know what you've got until you've lost it, I really don't think that those calling for him to go understand his credentials.

 

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He is responsible for bringing in players, and the last couple of years have been poor in that regard. For that reason alone, his position at the club should come under more scrutiny.

[Red]

Let's be honest no one on here really knows his credentials. We have zero idea what decisions he has or has not been personally responsible for. Personally I wouldn't be pushing for his removal because I don't know what financial constraints he has been under.

 

 

Yes we do, because he has told us. He is responsible for all the football side of the club - recruiting managers, players, strategy, direction, "the Southampton Way", black box. etc. etc. What is not known is if he has control of the budget for player recruitment (doubt it), but we have spent reasonable sums on players that he would have sanctioned. So the buck stops with him football wise.

 

Whether he has done a good job or not is a different issue to be debated, but we do know what his day job is. For my money he is very average and would not have lasted at a higher club than us - however that is our ultimate dilemma I guess, we have over achieved massively in reality to be where we are today, and can we demand more without a sugar daddy investment? I would like to think Les could help make us a bit better at least!

[Pilchards]

Tough games coming up and we won’t suddenly get better as the team is ****e.

Problem is I don’t trust Reed to do the right thing in getting someone else in?

We don’t poach other team managers and we hire ones that are unemployed. The reason why nobody employs them is because they are crap.

[Ultimatt]

Does a full top to bottom clear out include our impetuous overentitled fans? It's so easy to call for a managers head without thinking about the £7m compensation we'd have to payout Pellegrino added to the £5m we paid Puel, or the fact that we're not a drawcard for a top tier manager and would just replace with another mid-tier manager.

 

Koeman had his playing pedigree but no notable managerial pedigree. He had a good squad here that did well in the league but bombed out in all the cups including Midgetland. He's assembled the 12th most expensive squad in football history with Everton (same value as Bayern Munich) and has scored 2 less goals than we have. People seem to overly attribute our success to him and Pochettino but they had some seriously class players that are playing week-in week-out at big 4 clubs. Pelle became the 4th highest paid player in the world in China.

 

Puel had managerial pedigree as a cup/European manager which is why he got the nod (we were in Europa league). He'd taken Lyon to a champions league semi-final. We deserved to go through our group based on all the stats (way more shots taken, way less shots against) but after an appalling summer window where we topped the net spend chart and actually made transfer profit when the TV money kicked in and other clubs were spending tens of millions, we had JayRod/Long leading our line. The club threw him under the bus. We swapped Mane for a player that wasn't even a starter for Championship Norwich in Redmond. We swapped Pelle for the inferior Austin. We swapped Wanyama for a 21yo non-starter in Hojbjerg. He lost some of the dressing room from the start when he had to stand up to billy big balls Fonte after the Euros and not play him in Europa. We had VVDs injury and played half the season with our 3rd/4th choice CBs. Puel was totally thrown under the bus by the club/fans. IMO Puel overperformed with the squad/circumstances he had. We had a chance to have a decent run in Europe and the club decided to save money instead.

 

Pellegrino doesn't have the same pedigree as Puel and based on his record was always likely to be a worse manager. He's got a stronger squad this year with Lemina/Hoedt + VVD back now + no Europa league + our young squad all a year older. The expectations on him should well and truly be higher than what was expected of Puel. Nonetheless, the midfield still lacks creativity/goals. He can only do so much with this team that's mid-table at best. Sacking him achieves absolutely nothing as we're not a drawcard for someone better. The money needs to be invested in the squad. We need better in the #7/#11/#10 roles. We need proper attacking players instead of Redmond/Davis who offer next to nothing in the final third.

[niceandfriendly]

It was a shameful decision to sack him, we now have someone who can do aftermatch interviews but he has degraded our team greatly

 

A shameful decision to sack a woeful, inept, horrific, appalling, embarrassing, pathetic excuse for a manager? Yes, ok then mate.

 

Here's this amazing thing again where because a new appointment is also terrible, the previous employee suddenly becomes better than he was.

 

People on this forum, honestly.

[skintsaint]

I'd still give him the season, he needs the balls to drop FF though as gifting goals no matter what sort of football you play in the PL will cost you points. Bring Hoedt back in for the next game also. We are sat 10th at the moment, not the end of the world - generally the first 10 games of the season the results are a bit skewed anyway. I might just be a glass half full type person though. I don't see any decent realistic alternatives out there and we will end up with either Moyes, Strachan or Allardyce ..

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Starting both Tadic and Redmond again this weekend Pellegrino was pretty much sticking two fingers up to the fans. If he wants a war, he can have one. Stubborn old goat.

Edited 16 October, 2017 by Kingsbridge Saint

[danjosaint]

Do you not think with the guaranteed starter in Redmond mirrors last season, people were saying the same then but with diff managers so maybe it's higher than our manager and a certain Leslie is picking the team, after all he's responsible for everything

[View From The Top]

No, we should have accepted that 8th & a cup final with this ****ing squad was the best it gets. You reap what you sow.

 

 

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I didn't want Puel sacked, although I appreciate why many home game only fans did, I could see what he was trying to achieve and away from SMS we played some great stuff.

 

However, that doesn't alter the fact that MP is totally out of his depth. It's turgid, grim, uninspiring football with awful team selection.

 

In all my years following Saints, with the exception of Branfoot, I have never wanted rid of a manager after so few games.

[SKD]

Just because MP has been horrendous, doesn't mean Puel is suddenly a ****ing genius. Appointing Puel in the position we were in (very attractive, in Europe) has to be one of the worst decisions this club has ever made.

 

Spot on. If you look at the form from the back end of last season (+ all the players who wanted Puel out) we would have been in a worse position than we are this season, in sure of it.

 

But let D!ckhunter continue to try and persuade everyone that Puel is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Our troubles are more deep rooted than just the manager... Unfortuntely Glasgow is right, we need a clear out starting at the top with Reed and Wilson.

[corky morris]

A good manager is pragmatic in his approach.

We play dull, predictable, pedestrian rubbish that is easy to defend against.

VVD, Bertrand & Redmond look to be anywhere, but at Saints. I'd sell the lot.

A new manager can bring intensity. Maybe then we may start to look like we actually care!

[SKD]

and your opinion is 100% fact.

 

Team should be built around him as a 10.

 

But you’re forgetting that Les wants us to play 4-3-3 with slow possession based build up play. Unfortunelty there is no room for a player with Boufal’s flair in that system, he just gives the ball away too much (trying to create things, which is exactly what we need).

[Wade Garrett]

When Newcastle had the ball in forward positions, there were 3 or 4 players within a 12 yard radius.

 

When we had it forward, there was hardly an option. We aren't fit enough, and our mobility off the ball will be our downfall.

[southamptonfc]

When Newcastle had the ball in forward positions, there were 3 or 4 players within a 12 yard radius.

 

When we had it forward, there was hardly an option. We aren't fit enough, and our mobility off the ball will be our downfall.

 

Also, several times Newcastle cut through us like a hot knife through butter because the midfield didn't work hard enough to get back and defend. Their second goal is an example.