Pellegrino OUT

[Bananaman]

As a genuine question, has any manager had such a difficult/dissapointing start at a club and come good in time? can think of any.

[Badger]

As a genuine question, has any manager had such a difficult/dissapointing start at a club and come good in time? can think of any.

 

Relegation under Lawrie after about five months in charge was pretty disappointing at the time, and many were calling for his head the following season.

 

Branfoot, and more recently Gray & Wigley were pretty poor from the outset, but none came good.

[danjosaint]

Still in out camp from me just think he's out of his depth, we need to win these games instead resting people for Arsenal where we will probably lose anyway

[Pamplemousse]

Yeah I don't think he got it right today.

 

Having seen both Hoj and Lemina play well in the last two games, he reverts to a CDM pairing that we know doesn't work very well with Davis.

 

It's taken him almost half a season to work out that Redmond and Tadic are more effective when you play them on their preferred sides.

 

This constantly rotating Hoedt and Yoshi is just insane. It's obvious that Yoshida is the better player so why keep leaving him out? Hoedt cost us badly today.

 

Realistically, we should have beaten Bournemouth today. But due to setting up all wrong from the start we gave them the whole first half and were lucky to be only 1-0 down at the break.

 

Two decent performances in the last week, and the manager learns nothing from them. Poor stuff really.

 

Hojbjerg played 2 matches, three in a week where he hasn't had that much first team football would've been too much for him. Hopefully he'll come back for the Arsenal game.

[sadoldgit]

I agree. Some people seem to think that not to show unconditional support for a football team is a challenge to your manhood.

The mantra "get behind your team ffs" is lemming like. Support them yes but that doesn't mean you can't criticise when its needed.

 

There is a big difference between criticising and wanting everyone sacked.

[Micky]

There is a big difference between criticising and wanting everyone sacked.

Agree, it's not the criticism that causes any offence whatsoever, it's the blindingly obvious overreaction and constant trolling. I think I'm what's called a happy clapper, but im not adverse to calling the team, or management, out if i think they have underperformed.

 

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[James]

Bad team selection today (again) - that midfield was always going to cost us. Hoj and Lemina were absolutely outstanding over the last two games but both were excluded in a game where we had a higher chance of some points.

 

Also, an awful West Ham side managed to put 10 men behind the ball and narrowly lose 2-1 to City so let’s not pretend it’s some kind of genius managerial move, it’s not.

 

Fact is, we thrashed an awful team, set up with 10 men behind the ball against the Champions elect (but still lost) and then reverted to type by dropping points against teams we should beat.

 

The only positive thing Pell has done since our bad run of form is playing Austin who actually scores regularly. Other than that we are just the same - underperforming considering the team we’ve got except now we’ve got a player who will put the ball in the bet given half a chance. Shame it’s taken MP half a season to give him a chance.

 

We could do much better than him.

Edited 3 December, 2017 by James

[Bridge]

MP is out of his depth! Plays about with the team to much and picks Redmond, I struggle to see what Redmond has to offer? To me he's a championship player at best. He's not a team player, moans at teams mates and ref's all the frigging time, he should worry about himself and what he has to deliver. If MP doesn't get a grip of things soon the Prem will slowly eat him alive! He talks a good game and says all right things to the camera. I just wonder how good he is at motivating the team. I not sure about this set of players we have in the squad, we do need some additions but by god he should be getting more out of them? I don't even know what our style of play is anymore. There no identity to this team. It all still looks grim from my side of the fence and I am still in the MP has to go opinion.

[danjosaint]

U look at our team on paper and hell your damn right he should be getting more from it, yes there not jelling but when you compare Vvd, Hoedt, Bertie, Lemina, Gabbi, Romeu to all other teams bar top 5 they would probably swap in a heartbeat, just dont think mp and puel have or ever will get the best out of them

[James]

U look at our team on paper and hell your damn right he should be getting more from it, yes there not jelling but when you compare Vvd, Hoedt, Bertie, Lemina, Gabbi, Romeu to all other teams bar top 5 they would probably swap in a heartbeat, just dont think mp and puel have or ever will get the best out of them

 

Agreed. We've got deficiencies in the team for sure but no way we should be worried about being in the dogfight. MP has to go but the win v Everton and the plucky defeat against City (replicated by an utterly atrocious West Ham) will have bought him some time. IMO there's no way he goes this season. If we finish bottom half he'll be gone in the summer and we'll be back to square one.

[saint-crinny]

Austin scores that header and we win today. I've not been that impressed with him but today hasn't changed my opinion either way. We weren't that bad - went back to side that beat Everton bar Hoj and acted quickly when JWP wasn't working.

 

No idea why but have a feeling we might turn over Arsenal

[Lord Duckhunter]

MP is out of his depth! Plays about with the team to much and picks Redmond, I struggle to see what Redmond has to offer? To me he's a championship player at best. He's not a team player, moans at teams mates and ref's all the frigging time, he should worry about himself and what he has to deliver. If MP doesn't get a grip of things soon the Prem will slowly eat him alive! He talks a good game and says all right things to the camera. I just wonder how good he is at motivating the team. I not sure about this set of players we have in the squad, we do need some additions but by god he should be getting more out of them? I don't even know what our style of play is anymore. There no identity to this team. It all still looks grim from my side of the fence and I am still in the MP has to go opinion.

 

Pony

 

 

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[Highfield Saint]

Bad team selection today (again) - that midfield was always going to cost us. Hoj and Lemina were absolutely outstanding over the last two games but both were excluded in a game where we had a higher chance of some points.

 

Also, an awful West Ham side managed to put 10 men behind the ball and narrowly lose 2-1 to City so let’s not pretend it’s some kind of genius managerial move, it’s not.

 

Fact is, we thrashed an awful team, set up with 10 men behind the ball against the Champions elect (but still lost) and then reverted to type by dropping points against teams we should beat.

 

The only positive thing Pell has done since our bad run of form is playing Austin who actually scores regularly. Other than that we are just the same - underperforming considering the team we’ve got except now we’ve got a player who will put the ball in the bet given half a chance. Shame it’s taken MP half a season to give him a chance.

 

We could do much better than him.

 

Bad team selection that outplayed the opposition in the second half an were unlucky not to score more than 1

 

West Ham lost "narrowly" - we lost with the last kick of the game

 

We thrashed an "awful team" who have gone on to win 2 from 2 and scored 6 in the process

 

We could do better than him - who exactly? We are mid table form wise with two losses away from home against Liverpool and Man City included. We are playing better and with more intent.

[saint77]

Austin scores that header and we win today. I've not been that impressed with him but today hasn't changed my opinion either way. We weren't that bad - went back to side that beat Everton bar Hoj and acted quickly when JWP wasn't working.

 

No idea why but have a feeling we might turn over Arsenal

 

Yeh not impressive at all is he 3 goals in 2 starts

[James]

Bad team selection that outplayed the opposition in the second half an were unlucky not to score more than 1

 

West Ham lost "narrowly" - we lost with the last kick of the game

 

We thrashed an "awful team" who have gone on to win 2 from 2 and scored 6 in the process

 

We could do better than him - who exactly? We are mid table form wise with two losses away from home against Liverpool and Man City included. We are playing better and with more intent.

 

We still lost by the same score though, not really sure how keeping City out for an extra 7 minutes makes our performance superior to West Ham’s.

 

Everton were in absolute disarray when we played them, was the generally accepted consensus that they were the worst team to come to SMS for many a year. The fact that they’ve now bucked up shows the impact a good manager can have.

 

Not my job to pick the manager but, the question is, do you think MP is getting the best out of us? I don’t. We are playing better but long way to go.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Not my job to pick the manager

 

Thank **** for that

 

 

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[Smoot]

Some people equate critique with criticism. Tis a pity.

[Bridge]

If we continue with this current win rate, we will finish on 41 points. Way to close for my liking. There has to be a big up lift in results to push away from danger.

[Batman]

If we continue with this current win rate, we will finish on 41 points. Way to close for my liking. There has to be a big up lift in results to push away from danger.

but there has been an obvious lift in performances. Clearly changed the way we play and attacking more. shame the manager had to be under severe pressure to realise this (and start Austin)

 

whether MP keeps it like this against many of the divisions teams, remains to be seen

[St.JonB]

You only have to look at the managers the other teams have ended up to realise there is not a great choice of top managers on offer. Pellegrino has had a slow start, but you can see improvement recently so he does not deserve to be sacked. Give him to the end of the season and review then.

[Saint86]

If we continue with this current win rate, we will finish on 41 points. Way to close for my liking. There has to be a big up lift in results to push away from danger.

 

Well, you could take 4 from 9 points (including city, A top 8 contender, and lower mid table team), and anticipate 51 points from 38games. Way to early to say basically, and all teams have periods of good and bad form rather than maintaining an average - just look at Poch and Koeman with saints. Personally think we will come top 10 this year, and improve next season.

[Badger]

You only have to look at the managers the other teams have ended up to realise there is not a great choice of top managers on offer. Pellegrino has had a slow start, but you can see improvement recently so he does not deserve to be sacked. Give him to the end of the season and review then.

 

For this reason I'd only want to replace MP at this stage if we have the replacement that we want signed up. This should have been the strategy with Puel but of course it wasn't and we end up with someone who was probably well down the list when it was first drawn up, if he was on it at all at that point.

[DT]

Austin scores that header and we win today. I've not been that impressed with him but today hasn't changed my opinion either way. We weren't that bad - went back to side that beat Everton bar Hoj and acted quickly when JWP wasn't working.

 

No idea why but have a feeling we might turn over Arsenal

 

Hoj was our best player against Everton. So he drops him. Brilliant man management. Makes me think of Koeman with Clasie

[danjosaint]

Apart from Clasie is sh**e

[Tom & Gerry]

The critics want us to play more centre halfs and more defensive midfield players, drop forward thinking players like Tadic and Redmond and then attack more. Totally muddled thinking. They are out of their depth.

[Sheaf Saint]

The critics want us to play more centre halfs and more defensive midfield players, drop forward thinking players like Tadic and Redmond and then attack more. Totally muddled thinking. They are out of their depth.

 

Who is suggesting that?

[Saint_Ash]

Erased the city game from your memory?

 

doesn't fit his narrative.

[DT]

doesn't fit his narrative.

 

Ouch. Fact is, I had forgotten. So I am a nob.

 

 

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[verlaine1979]

Erased the city game from your memory?

 

Hoj was better against City than Davis was against Bournemouth.

[Roboze]

Alex ferguson, wasn't amazing when he first took charge of utd..........

[doddisalegend]

Mmmmm...

 

Southampton

No team outside the top six takes more shots than Southampton. No team outside the top six boasts more possession than Southampton. No team outside the top six has a higher pass completion rate than Southampton.

There’s a team in there somewhere but we fear Mauricio Pellegrino will be sacked before we catch a proper glimpse.

 

http://www.bing.com/news/apiclick.aspx?ref=BDIGeneric&aid=C98EA5B0842DBB9405BBF071E1DA7651530FFE51&tid=3E1728BE4CF54C19B6AA1B38F15477CD&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.football365.com%2fnews%2fpremier-league-winners-and-losers-82&c=14497026672068274561&mkt=en-gb

[tajjuk]

If we ignore who we played and how they played over the last three games and focus on what the team did.

 

Then, IMO -

 

V Everton, tempo was much better, we controlled the game and the attacking play was much sharper more incisive. He got team selection right in that game and probably the changes right as well, the team clearly reacted well after suffering a wonder goal against the run of play and in the end it could have been 6 or 7.

 

v Man City, shifted the shape and personnel to match the opposition and were unlucky not to get a point if not more had we not missed good chances from set pieces.

 

V Bournemouth, started the game better than them and looked like the home side IMO for most of that half, Austin hits the post, VVD has a clear header at a corner he should have scored, Austin forces a good save and just before half time Boufal should have at least hit the target. There goal comes from an unforced error that the manager can not do much about, the penalty that wasn't again is silly challenge in the box by Boufal and their other main chance comes from a miss hit long range shot.

 

Then second half we dominate the game, he sees JWP isn't working, Redmond comes in and sets up a goal, we create further chances through the game and really should have gone on and won the game with better finishing. He even doesn't just settle for a point bringing Gabbiadini on for Davis towards the end when he could have gone more defensive.

 

Hojberg was excellent against Everton and dropping him for Romeu was a big call, BUT Romeu I thought was back to his best against Bournemouth, made some great interceptions and his robbing of Cook help create the equaliser.

 

So from those 3 games what have we seen?

 

- Something that resembles like he is working out what our best 11 is, certainly when facing equal and lesser teams. The Bertrand/Boufal combo on the left, JWP/Redmond on the right, Austin up front etc.

- More attacking and higher tempo play, less sideways passes.

- Tactical flexibility switching to the 3 against City.

- IMO a better work rate seen by the players, we seemed to press higher and you certainly couldn't say the players weren't playing for the manager.

- Better performances by the 'big' names, VVD was immense against B'mouth, Bertrand has been much better and even Forster looks like he's woken up, he's making some big saves again and is coming to catch balls in the box.

 

Overall IMO lots of positive signs.

 

If it keeps going like this and we keep seeing good performances then I'll be happy, the Manager can't legislate for us missing chances (another day and IMo we score 3-4 against B'mouth) or individual defensive errors (though hopefully he is telling Hoedt to keep that trick in the locker) but getting the right people out on the pitch and playing at right work rate and tempo is what he can do, an over the last 3 games I think you can't fault what he did.

 

The only issue is have we wasted too many chances, we have dropped points against teams we should have beaten and some tough games could see him gone before we get to see true progress.

[captainchris]

Agree, it's not the criticism that causes any offence whatsoever, it's the blindingly obvious overreaction and constant trolling. I think I'm what's called a happy clapper, but im not adverse to calling the team, or management, out if i think they have underperformed.

 

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The ‘over reaction’ is by the poor poor people who are so called ‘offended’ by others having an opinion on matters..

There is a subject at the beginning of every thread, stick to that and stop trolling individuals who have stuck to the subject...

I think MP is off track. Some players he ‘rotates’ others don’t get rotated. We are not Europe or the League Cup so all players should be able to handle the number of games we have.

He is another egotistic tinkerer who cannot learn by events ....

it’s taken him months to realise Tadic cannot play on the right yet I am sure he will play him again soon ....For instance...

He is a rabbit in headlights who luckily had some good players to keep him on a job...

[benjii]

If we ignore who we played and how they played over the last three games and focus on what the team did.

 

Then, IMO -

 

V Everton, tempo was much better, we controlled the game and the attacking play was much sharper more incisive. He got team selection right in that game and probably the changes right as well, the team clearly reacted well after suffering a wonder goal against the run of play and in the end it could have been 6 or 7.

 

v Man City, shifted the shape and personnel to match the opposition and were unlucky not to get a point if not more had we not missed good chances from set pieces.

 

V Bournemouth, started the game better than them and looked like the home side IMO for most of that half, Austin hits the post, VVD has a clear header at a corner he should have scored, Austin forces a good save and just before half time Boufal should have at least hit the target. There goal comes from an unforced error that the manager can not do much about, the penalty that wasn't again is silly challenge in the box by Boufal and their other main chance comes from a miss hit long range shot.

 

Then second half we dominate the game, he sees JWP isn't working, Redmond comes in and sets up a goal, we create further chances through the game and really should have gone on and won the game with better finishing. He even doesn't just settle for a point bringing Gabbiadini on for Davis towards the end when he could have gone more defensive.

 

Hojberg was excellent against Everton and dropping him for Romeu was a big call, BUT Romeu I thought was back to his best against Bournemouth, made some great interceptions and his robbing of Cook help create the equaliser.

 

So from those 3 games what have we seen?

 

- Something that resembles like he is working out what our best 11 is, certainly when facing equal and lesser teams. The Bertrand/Boufal combo on the left, JWP/Redmond on the right, Austin up front etc.

- More attacking and higher tempo play, less sideways passes.

- Tactical flexibility switching to the 3 against City.

- IMO a better work rate seen by the players, we seemed to press higher and you certainly couldn't say the players weren't playing for the manager.

- Better performances by the 'big' names, VVD was immense against B'mouth, Bertrand has been much better and even Forster looks like he's woken up, he's making some big saves again and is coming to catch balls in the box.

 

Overall IMO lots of positive signs.

 

If it keeps going like this and we keep seeing good performances then I'll be happy, the Manager can't legislate for us missing chances (another day and IMo we score 3-4 against B'mouth) or individual defensive errors (though hopefully he is telling Hoedt to keep that trick in the locker) but getting the right people out on the pitch and playing at right work rate and tempo is what he can do, an over the last 3 games I think you can't fault what he did.

 

The only issue is have we wasted too many chances, we have dropped points against teams we should have beaten and some tough games could see him gone before we get to see true progress.

 

Fair post.

[Saint86]

If we ignore who we played and how they played over the last three games and focus on what the team did.

 

Then, IMO -

 

V Everton, tempo was much better, we controlled the game and the attacking play was much sharper more incisive. He got team selection right in that game and probably the changes right as well, the team clearly reacted well after suffering a wonder goal against the run of play and in the end it could have been 6 or 7.

 

v Man City, shifted the shape and personnel to match the opposition and were unlucky not to get a point if not more had we not missed good chances from set pieces.

 

V Bournemouth, started the game better than them and looked like the home side IMO for most of that half, Austin hits the post, VVD has a clear header at a corner he should have scored, Austin forces a good save and just before half time Boufal should have at least hit the target. There goal comes from an unforced error that the manager can not do much about, the penalty that wasn't again is silly challenge in the box by Boufal and their other main chance comes from a miss hit long range shot.

 

Then second half we dominate the game, he sees JWP isn't working, Redmond comes in and sets up a goal, we create further chances through the game and really should have gone on and won the game with better finishing. He even doesn't just settle for a point bringing Gabbiadini on for Davis towards the end when he could have gone more defensive.

 

Hojberg was excellent against Everton and dropping him for Romeu was a big call, BUT Romeu I thought was back to his best against Bournemouth, made some great interceptions and his robbing of Cook help create the equaliser.

 

So from those 3 games what have we seen?

 

- Something that resembles like he is working out what our best 11 is, certainly when facing equal and lesser teams. The Bertrand/Boufal combo on the left, JWP/Redmond on the right, Austin up front etc.

- More attacking and higher tempo play, less sideways passes.

- Tactical flexibility switching to the 3 against City.

- IMO a better work rate seen by the players, we seemed to press higher and you certainly couldn't say the players weren't playing for the manager.

- Better performances by the 'big' names, VVD was immense against B'mouth, Bertrand has been much better and even Forster looks like he's woken up, he's making some big saves again and is coming to catch balls in the box.

 

Overall IMO lots of positive signs.

 

If it keeps going like this and we keep seeing good performances then I'll be happy, the Manager can't legislate for us missing chances (another day and IMo we score 3-4 against B'mouth) or individual defensive errors (though hopefully he is telling Hoedt to keep that trick in the locker) but getting the right people out on the pitch and playing at right work rate and tempo is what he can do, an over the last 3 games I think you can't fault what he did.

 

The only issue is have we wasted too many chances, we have dropped points against teams we should have beaten and some tough games could see him gone before we get to see true progress.

 

More to the point - signs of a good manager!

 

Mopey is going to come good. There were glimpses of it in his first game, and its becoming more and more obvious each game.

 

Maybe the fans were tired and fed up with no goals Claude, but whatever the reason, our fanbase needs to grow a pair and start cheering on the team, manager! (and Forster!!) The twitter protests were just embarrassing and very counter productive to the team and atmosphere around the club.

 

The manager is a good un. Back him in January and back him as fans!

[Wade Garrett]

Things have definitely changed since the squad and the manager had it out.

 

It's certainly better now. More urgency going forward, more positive with the passing (apart from Davis on Sunday for their goal). Austin up top banging them in, and Redmond showing what a better player he is on the right.

 

If he buggers around with all this and slips back to the negative play, I would say goodbye. If he builds on what he's got, then we'll be OK.

 

He should know enough about the league and his squad by now. The players seem behind him, they weren't behind Puel. Hopefully, he'll push on.

[Suhari]

Things have definitely changed since the squad and the manager had it out.

 

It's certainly better now. More urgency going forward, more positive with the passing (apart from Davis on Sunday for their goal). Austin up top banging them in, and Redmond showing what a better player he is on the right.

 

If he buggers around with all this and slips back to the negative play, I would say goodbye. If he builds on what he's got, then we'll be OK.

 

He should know enough about the league and his squad by now. The players seem behind him, they weren't behind Puel. Hopefully, he'll push on.

 

eh?

 

What happened and when?

[Wade Garrett]

eh?

 

What happened and when?

 

Between the Liverpool game and the Everton one, they had a clear the air.

[tajjuk]

More to the point - signs of a good manager!

 

 

I'd say the Jury is still very much out on that one. But at the very least signs that the manager is seeing problems and has an idea how to fix them. It's also very clear that the whole thing has been a work in progress and it has taken time.

 

Certainly IMO enough there to give him more time, like I said though have we wasted too many chances, we have surrendered points against teams we should be better than or at least on par with, which means we need to catch up some points against the bigger teams. That is my main worry.

 

I very much think we need to see this season as a transition season. If we keep seeing good performances (not necessarily always results) then I reckon most people will be happy with that and then we can build on it next season with a stable manager in place.

[Suhari]

Between the Liverpool game and the Everton one, they had a clear the air.

 

Hadn't heard that.

 

Presumably it went along the lines of "Please sir, can we pass forwards more?!"

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Bunch of wetties on here as fans you are embarrassing get behind the team for duck sakes.....

 

I've been sitting here in my lounge, laptop fan whirring away furiously, and shouting "come on you reds" at the top of my voice.

Oh, I forgot, this is a web forum where opinions are expressed.

[SuperSAINT]

BUMP

[Bad Wolf]

What's the point now?! Who are we going to get in?

[Saint86]

Seriously wondering if he wants a payout from being sacked tonight.

 

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[farawaysaint]

I can't see him lasting the week if we lose here to be honest.

[CB Fry]

Pellegrino is by far the most boring, nondescript man I've mustered the energy to hate.

Got to agree with this. Utterly hopeless.

[Badger]

Pellegrino is by far the most boring, nondescript man I've mustered the energy to hate.

 

Can't say I hate Pellegrino as a bloke, feel sorry for him that he is woefully out of his depth.

 

Hate the fact that he was selected by Reed, and is still with us.

[Batman]

this was from October. we all saw it then

[skywalk750]

45 minutes left of Pellegrino and Reed. Both need to go

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

If this scoreline stays the same and we don't sack him then I genuinely think the club have given up and are preparing for relegation. The lack of other signings suggests that too. 0 shots on target in that half against Brighton at home. I don't have the vocabulary to describe the depths of how awful this season has been so far. We are going down if it stays like this.