Pellegrino OUT

[hypochondriac]

Sacking a decent manager and replacing him with someone worse is always a bad idea. We did it with Nicholl -> Br*nf**t and Luggy -> Wigley. It was a disaster those two times, and it is looking like history is repeating itself.

Absolutely. We should never have sacked puel if we weren't confident that we would get someone better. I definitely think we could have replaced him with a stronger option but that doesn't mean that puel shouldn't have left.

[hypochondriac]

It's the Everton home game when it could all turn nasty no one in their right mind expect us to get anything at Anfieild.

My prediction is a narrow loss to Liverpool and a bore draw against Everton which should be enough for him to keep his position for a while yet.

[Dazza82]

Marco Silva was the one to get and he wanted to come, we took too long and he got fed up with waiting, now he has Watford flying!

 

Watford will be the team we were a few years ago now pushing the top 7

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[SKD]

Absolutely. We should never have sacked puel if we weren't confident that we would get someone better. I definitely think we could have replaced him with a stronger option but that doesn't mean that puel shouldn't have left.

 

Marco Silva would have been an instant upgrade on them both. We spoke to him pretty early on, but we wanted Tuchel so Silva took Watford job.

 

MP was probably our 4/5th choice.

[Toomer]

If the fans are vocal enough he'll do it I reckon. If we get stuffed at Liverpool, then the fans there need to make

Edited 5 November, 2017 by Toomer

[hypochondriac]

Marco Silva would have been an instant upgrade on them both. We spoke to him pretty early on, but we wanted Tuchel so Silva took Watford job.

 

MP was probably our 4/5th choice.

I did think at the time it seemed an odd appointment but I reasoned that poch was a relative unknown but clearly we have got worse than even the poor form of late last season.

[badgerx16]

MP was probably our 4/5th choice.

Have you got an errant / in there ?

[Pamplemousse]

It's the Everton home game when it could all turn nasty no one in their right mind expect us to get anything at Anfieild.

 

No, but if we get tonked 3-0 or worse than it could get nasty.

 

Everton for sure if we don't turn up. Live on Sky too, so at least there will be media pressure.

[OldNick]

After todays results we are very close to being in the relegation fight. Iam amazed that MP was not sacked last night

[Saint86]

I did think at the time it seemed an odd appointment but I reasoned that poch was a relative unknown but clearly we have got worse than even the poor form of late last season.

 

Good ol Uncle Les.

[Saint Albert]

Marco Silva would have been an instant upgrade on them both. We spoke to him pretty early on, but we wanted Tuchel so Silva took Watford job.

 

MP was probably our 4/5th choice.

 

It sounds to me from what you are saying that the club could have handled the change in managers better.

 

Remember when Cortese fired Adkins, but had his replacement already in hand? The club held all the cards last summer, they could have found a suitable replacement, signed him up and then fired Puel. Instead, they fired him, failed to secure their preferred options and we ended up with Pellegrino.

 

We’ll see what kind of character Silva has if midseason offers come in from bigger clubs like Everton.

[doddisalegend]

It sounds to me from what you are saying that the club could have handled the change in managers better.

 

Remember when Cortese fired Adkins, but had his replacement already in hand? The club held all the cards last summer, they could have found a suitable replacement, signed him up and then fired Puel. Instead, they fired him, failed to secure their preferred options and we ended up with Pellegrino.

 

We’ll see what kind of character Silva has if midseason offers come in from bigger clubs like Everton.

 

Not sure that Everton will be to keen

[Pamplemousse]

Silva isn't as good as people think he is. Better than Pellegrino for sure though.

[View From The Top]

If we lose the next 3, which is very possible, including hammerings at dippers and City, he'll be gone.

[trousers]

If we lose the next 3, which is very possible, including hammerings at dippers and City, he'll be gone.

Opinion or what you've heard?

[CB Fry]

We're just not bad enough in the table or in form to allow the club to truly justify sacking him.

 

Even though we are terrible, it is clear he is out of his depth, and we all know that the next bunch of fixtures is going to see us plunge even further, I just don't think the club are brave enough to sack him now.

 

The club will worry too much about the Talksport/SSN handwringing about "what do that club really expect to achieve, he's got them mid table etc etc etc". Hot on the heels of the equally (adjudged to be) harsh sacking of Puel, I can't see Les doing it so soon after.

 

Genuinely think he'd need to lose, say, five in a row to get sacked in the middle of the season. Les will be desperate to get to May with league status intact and then start again.

 

But, that said, It may all depend on the new owners, that's the only new variable. They might yet weild the knife. Gianfranco Zola here we come.

[hypochondriac]

Is it just me who'll be surprised if he isn't sacked in the next 48 hours then?

 

I don't see this if we lose x, y, z now. We're already there. He's had a terrific run of fixtures and we haven't managed one good performance. Not one. We've beaten 3 sides, 2 of whom had zero points when we played them, the other of which didn't try to play football. We won by 1 in each and nearly fcked each up.

 

Let's not pretend otherwise or make excuses, this has been extraordinarily pathetic and anyone not concerned and saying where we are in the table hasn't paid attention to the fixture list.

I just don't see those in charge making a big call like that without waiting longer. I wanted to give him longer a few games ago to see if he could turn it around but there are no signs of that happening at all. Maybe the hierarchy feel similar to the fans but I doubt it.

[hypochondriac]

If we lose the next 3, which is very possible, including hammerings at dippers and City, he'll be gone.

Can't see us being in the end of a hammering except against city maybe if they are in the mood.

[austsaint]

We're just not bad enough in the table or in form to allow the club to truly justify sacking him.

 

Even though we are terrible, it is clear he is out of his depth, and we all know that the next bunch of fixtures is going to see us plunge even further, I just don't think the club are brave enough to sack him now.

 

The club will worry too much about the Talksport/SSN handwringing about "what do that club really expect to achieve, he's got them mid table etc etc etc". Hot on the heels of the equally (adjudged to be) harsh sacking of Puel, I can't see Les doing it so soon after.

 

Genuinely think he'd need to lose, say, five in a row to get sacked in the middle of the season. Les will be desperate to get to May with league status intact and then start again.

 

But, that said, It may all depend on the new owners, that's the only new variable. They might yet weild the knife. Gianfranco Zola here we come.

 

Yes, you're right. The Club don't seem brave or decisive enough to take the action needed - sacking Pellegrino. Sure, the arguments are there about the mediocrity in the squad, but MP has had the easiest fixture list, no cup or European distractions and no serious injuries, yet the style of Football and tactical set-up is awful. Maybe 4 games was unfair on De Boer, but the eleven MP has had is ample evidence. The new owners view on all this is the most intriguing part of the season so far.

[Saint Albert]

Can't see us being in the end of a hammering except against city maybe if they are in the mood.

 

I suppose there’s a chance that Pellegrino’s defence-first, unadventurous style might produce a few 0-0 draws during the difficult upcoming fixtures.

[hypochondriac]

I suppose there’s a chance that Pellegrino’s defence-first, unadventurous style might produce a few 0-0 draws during the difficult upcoming fixtures.

I think that's true depressingly. I reckon we will get a few surprise draws or maybe nick a game 1-0 and that will be enough to justify his continues employment.

[ally_uk]

Been saying it for weeks we have gone backwards. This manager is clueless we will be in a relegation battle of we do not clear out the manager and dross in squad.....

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Is he still here? FFS. I was hoping to a good start to the new week.

[Dusic]

Anyone expecting Reed to fire him anytime before Christmas will be disappointed!

[Jonnyboy]

Is he still here? FFS. I was hoping to a good start to the new week.

 

And the man you wanted out has just leapfrogged Saints in the table.

[Red]

Absolutely. We should never have sacked puel if we weren't confident that we would get someone better. I definitely think we could have replaced him with a stronger option but that doesn't mean that puel shouldn't have left.

 

Reckon Les fired the gun too early - thought he had a very good replacement in the bag but he backed out at the last minute (Tuchel??) and was left with MoPe as the last option (think more than one turned us down due to them not having greater control and budget) - can't be 100% but have heard a few bits and pieces. Lack of any word from new owner is significant.

[hypochondriac]

Reckon Les fired the gun too early - thought he had a very good replacement in the bag but he backed out at the last minute (Tuchel??) and was left with MoPe as the last option (think more than one turned us down due to them not having greater control and budget) - can't be 100% but have heard a few bits and pieces. Lack of any word from new owner is significant.

 

Yes I think that is the most likely option. Is lack of word from our owner significant? In what way do you think?

[Pamplemousse]

We won't go down - we're too strong defensively. We can beat rubbish like Palace and West Brom 1-0

[nta786]

We won't go down - we're too strong defensively. We can beat rubbish like Palace and West Brom 1-0

 

lets not get so arrogant.

 

All 3 of our wins were tbh I'd argue lucky.

WHU: needed 2 pens for it

Palace: They had some really good chances in that game compared to us and tbh a draw would have been fair result, we were lucky in the sense their shots were at Forster and they didn't have a resurgent Zaha

WBA: Well Boufal won't do that all year, and we never looked scoring.

 

Equally however, should have got at least 4 pts from our Burnley and Swansea game, sad we only gained 1.

 

It doesn't matter how strong we are defensively anyway, we need 3 pts not 0-0s and I can't even see us scoring more than 33 goals this season in the PL.

[Red]

Yes I think that is the most likely option. Is lack of word from our owner significant? In what way do you think?

 

Bit hard to say and don't want the usual crew to go off on one here - but don't think they are too happy with the negativity attached to the club at present. Was a bold move to push through with the sale under the new restrictions (and specially as it was done with private / personal money so to speak - and please spare me the "it's not his money" etc. etc.) and for it to back fire would be a serious loss of face, which the Chinese take extremely seriously. Think things will progress in Jan.

 

http://www.china-mike.com/chinese-culture/understanding-chinese-mind/cult-of-face/

[hypochondriac]

Bit hard to say and don't want the usual crew to go off on one here - but don't think they are too happy with the negativity attached to the club at present. Was a bold move to push through with the sale under the new restrictions (and specially as it was done with private / personal money so to speak - and please spare me the "it's not his money" etc. etc.) and for it to back fire would be a serious loss of face, which the Chinese take extremely seriously. Think things will progress in Jan.

 

http://www.china-mike.com/chinese-culture/understanding-chinese-mind/cult-of-face/

Is that based on anything you have been told? In fairness we have heard nothing from Gao either positive or negative just radio silence - it is difficult to read too much from that either way I would have thought.

[benjii]

Marco Silva was the one to get and he wanted to come, we took too long and he got fed up with waiting, now he has Watford flying!

 

Watford will be the team we were a few years ago now pushing the top 7

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

This season maybe but they are miles behind the level we were at before and there is zero evidence that they will sustain that position.

[Verbal Kint]

Even if he is sacked now does anyone have faith in Reed to get the right man in? He is the man that thought Puel and MP were the right fit before so I don't see why he would suddenly find the right one now. Reed believes in this type of football, if he didn't he would never have hired them in the first place

Edited 6 November, 2017 by Verbal Kint

[Pamplemousse]

Marco Silva was the one to get and he wanted to come, we took too long and he got fed up with waiting, now he has Watford flying!

 

Watford will be the team we were a few years ago now pushing the top 7

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

How are they flying exactly? They've only got two more points than us!

[Batman]

How are they flying exactly? They've only got two more points than us!

 

with a far weaker side/squad.

[danjosaint]

And harder fixtures

[doddisalegend]

Marco Silva was the one to get and he wanted to come, we took too long and he got fed up with waiting, now he has Watford flying!

 

Watford will be the team we were a few years ago now pushing the top 7

 

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

eh they are 2pts above us and 4pts behind Burnely in 7th if that constitutes flying then Puel had us flying at the end of last season.

 

The truth is the PL is two leagues the big six and everyone else. Every season one of "everyone else teams" starts the season with a bang (gets a bit of confidence, finds a striker in a purple patch, ETC) and has a good season (most likely that will be Burnley this season) none of them (including us) ever turn it into any long lasting success. Everton are probably the club who have come closest to making it a top seven but even they are miles off the big six.

[doddisalegend]

with a far weaker side/squad.

 

far weaker? our team isn't massively superior when you factor in we have one of the worst keepers in the PL and front line consisting of bang average players or decent players who's confidence is shot to ****. Our Defence is good but Bertrand and VVD are just going through the motions each week while looking bored. Romeu and Lemina are quality but Lemina is injured and behind him in the squad is dross.

[doddisalegend]

And harder fixtures

 

Still 4pts behind Burnley in 7th though so he is correct they aren't flying. Doing better than us certainly (and aren't most teams) but flying and pushing top seven hardly.

[DT]

Classic Saints. We won't sack him until it is almost impossible for any new incumbent to spend any money in January, and won't be able to object to the obvious outgoings. I'm afraid we might need someone like Allardyce to get tough in order to save our Premier status.

[SKD]

We won't go down - we're too strong defensively. We can beat rubbish like Palace and West Brom 1-0

 

We currently have a keeper that cannot save anything that's not straight at him. Even the best defense in the world can't stop a team from having shots.

 

Like it or not, unless something drastic changes, we are deep in trouble.

 

All the other clubs around us will change their manager if struggling, we wont until it's too late. Our only saving grace is that West Ham are appointing Moyes

[DT]

Bilic available...

[Pamplemousse]

We currently have a keeper that cannot save anything that's not straight at him. Even the best defense in the world can't stop a team from having shots.

 

Like it or not, unless something drastic changes, we are deep in trouble.

 

All the other clubs around us will change their manager if struggling, we wont until it's too late. Our only saving grace is that West Ham are appointing Moyes

 

We’ve conceded far fewer goals than the teams around us.

 

Historically speaking, it’s teams with bad defences that go down. For all of this team’s faults, a leaky defence isn’t one of them.

 

(Yes, we haven’t played Man City yet, which could alter things...)

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Classic Saints. We won't sack him until it is almost impossible for any new incumbent to spend any money in January, and won't be able to object to the obvious outgoings. I'm afraid we might need someone like Allardyce to get tough in order to save our Premier status.

 

Who would these be then?

[doddisalegend]

We currently have a keeper that cannot save anything that's not straight at him. Even the best defense in the world can't stop a team from having shots.

 

Like it or not, unless something drastic changes, we are deep in trouble.

 

All the other clubs around us will change their manager if struggling, we wont until it's too late. Our only saving grace is that West Ham are appointing Moyes

 

Exactly look how Palace have surged up the table since making the chop early.

[doddisalegend]

Bilic available...

 

Just goes show how things change when he got WHU to 7th (basically on the back of Payet having the season of his life) he was hailed as an excellent manager a season and a bit later he is on the scrap heap. You some times wonder if it's managers that make players or players that make managers.

[Saint Benali]

Exactly look how Palace have surged up the table since making the chop early.

 

To be fair to them since he took over they have had to play Citeh, Utd, Chelsea and Spurs. Getting 3 points from those games. They now have a lot easier fixture list. Where as we don't. I imagine by the end of the year the 11 point gap we have on them will have decreased.

[S-Clarke]

I've been watching this forum afar over the last few weeks, as it's predictably been a bit of an 'out' fest.

 

I used to look at Sunderland and even Villa and the frequency at which they changed their managers and thought it was crazy and not helping things, all of their managers had a very similar result. They were always struggling. I really do not want us to get into this horrific cycle by changing a manager every 6 months as it isn't right, when it gets to that stage you really need to look beyond the manager and what else is wrong.

 

I really can't see the club removing MP and I don't believe they should. For me, the statements we tried to make in the summer have backfired on us. We've managed to keep our sought after players, but unfortunately they are seemingly polluting the air a little bit around the place. Sometimes it's not always the right thing to keep hold of players who seemingly want to go, sometimes you just need to accept it, take the money, move on and get in players who actually want to be part of it.

 

Generally speaking, the reactions on Saturday were more from a culmination of the season as opposed to that game in isolation. In isolation we didn't play badly on Saturday, we've played a lot worse this season - but the frustration from previous weeks will just increase the negativity.

 

We're currently a team without an identity, we're kind of lost in between styles. We're lacking a superstar in this team, they're all much of a muchness (Tadic/Redmond etc). Replacing Mane was always going to be impossible, but we certainly shouldn't have sold 60% of our goals in a single transfer window. For me, that's where our issues started.

 

We have improved the midfield with Lemina and we have improved the defense with Hoedt, but we now need to see significant investment in the final third. It doesn't matter who the manager is, we have a poor mix of players in the final third and until we address that anyone would struggle to get this team balanced in the final third.

 

So, I don't think he should go, I think it's very reactionary to say as much - he's only been here 5 mins. If we get caught in the loop of constantly changing managers without addressing the core issues, we're going to get ourselves in an irreversible slide.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I've been watching this forum afar over the last few weeks, as it's predictably been a bit of an 'out' fest.

 

I used to look at Sunderland and even Villa and the frequency at which they changed their managers and thought it was crazy and not helping things, all of their managers had a very similar result. They were always struggling. I really do not want us to get into this horrific cycle by changing a manager every 6 months as it isn't right, when it gets to that stage you really need to look beyond the manager and what else is wrong.

 

I really can't see the club removing MP and I don't believe they should. For me, the statements we tried to make in the summer have backfired on us. We've managed to keep our sought after players, but unfortunately they are seemingly polluting the air a little bit around the place. Sometimes it's not always the right thing to keep hold of players who seemingly want to go, sometimes you just need to accept it, take the money, move on and get in players who actually want to be part of it.

 

Generally speaking, the reactions on Saturday were more from a culmination of the season as opposed to that game in isolation. In isolation we didn't play badly on Saturday, we've played a lot worse this season - but the frustration from previous weeks will just increase the negativity.

 

We're currently a team without an identity, we're kind of lost in between styles. We're lacking a superstar in this team, they're all much of a muchness (Tadic/Redmond etc). Replacing Mane was always going to be impossible, but we certainly shouldn't have sold 60% of our goals in a single transfer window. For me, that's where our issues started.

 

We have improved the midfield with Lemina and we have improved the defense with Hoedt, but we now need to see significant investment in the final third. It doesn't matter who the manager is, we have a poor mix of players in the final third and until we address that anyone would struggle to get this team balanced in the final third.

 

So, I don't think he should go, I think it's very reactionary to say as much - he's only been here 5 mins. If we get caught in the loop of constantly changing managers without addressing the core issues, we're going to get ourselves in an irreversible slide.

 

Another very good post that describes the issue very well

[Whitey Grandad]

I've been watching this forum afar over the last few weeks, as it's predictably been a bit of an 'out' fest.

 

I used to look at Sunderland and even Villa and the frequency at which they changed their managers and thought it was crazy and not helping things, all of their managers had a very similar result. They were always struggling. I really do not want us to get into this horrific cycle by changing a manager every 6 months as it isn't right, when it gets to that stage you really need to look beyond the manager and what else is wrong.

 

I really can't see the club removing MP and I don't believe they should. For me, the statements we tried to make in the summer have backfired on us. We've managed to keep our sought after players, but unfortunately they are seemingly polluting the air a little bit around the place. Sometimes it's not always the right thing to keep hold of players who seemingly want to go, sometimes you just need to accept it, take the money, move on and get in players who actually want to be part of it.

 

Generally speaking, the reactions on Saturday were more from a culmination of the season as opposed to that game in isolation. In isolation we didn't play badly on Saturday, we've played a lot worse this season - but the frustration from previous weeks will just increase the negativity.

 

We're currently a team without an identity, we're kind of lost in between styles. We're lacking a superstar in this team, they're all much of a muchness (Tadic/Redmond etc). Replacing Mane was always going to be impossible, but we certainly shouldn't have sold 60% of our goals in a single transfer window. For me, that's where our issues started.

 

We have improved the midfield with Lemina and we have improved the defense with Hoedt, but we now need to see significant investment in the final third. It doesn't matter who the manager is, we have a poor mix of players in the final third and until we address that anyone would struggle to get this team balanced in the final third.

 

So, I don't think he should go, I think it's very reactionary to say as much - he's only been here 5 mins. If we get caught in the loop of constantly changing managers without addressing the core issues, we're going to get ourselves in an irreversible slide.

On the whole I tend to agree with you. We know that Lemina was injured but what happened to Hoedt after Brighton? I don't think that he would have allowed Vokes that header.