Saints vs. Newcastle Thread

[simo]

Not at all. I think he’s a pr1ck. But I also thought he was good. Having seen the highlights now, I agree that there were a couple of moments to be concerned about (1st goal and the bit leading up to their flukey crossbar moment, but not the 2nd goal), perhaps he is still rusty or perhaps he will prove to be a little lackadaisical in covering the ground - time will tell - but there were also countless times where he did something good. Towering headers most notably, as well as being a threat at corners, something we have sorely missed. Sure, maybe these aspects of the game are things which require less “effort”, but rather than me being an apologist I think it’s more likely that those who have convinced themselves VVD doesn’t care (which he probably doesn’t, to an extent) are also victims of confirmation bias in that every mistake is ‘evidence’ of what they suspected.

 

One thing is for sure he's not busting a gut so he's either off the pace still physically and mentally or he Cba!

[mrfahaji]

Gabby's been out of the side for a while, so not sure he counts as a shining light in the same way Lemina does. Thought it was very poor defending for his first goal - who gets the time to dribble towards goal, turn, then dribble away from goal before turning again and getting a shot off? It has FIFA written all over it. Not sure Gabby and Long worked particularly well in the first half, though it was reassuring to see more than one player in the box when we put a cross in.

 

Haha, when I saw that goal back I immediately thought how it’s basically my approach to scoring on fifa, particularly in the dying minutes of the game when you need a goal

[mrfahaji]

One thing is for sure he's not busting a gut so he's either off the pace still physically and mentally or he Cba!

 

I’ll admit that I don’t remember him “busting a gut” during the game, but then I’m not sure which of our players did. I mean, if we’re going to criticise players for looking half-ars£d, I give you Ryan Bertrand...!

[Minsk]

Steady now. It wasn't a horror tackle. Late, sure, but it wasn't malicious. It was a second yellow, but it wasn't straight red.

 

To be honest, had he gone off we may have made substitutions to shut up shop and subsequently may not have conceded the penalty, so really you should be glad he stayed on...

 

It is always nice to get a decent opposition supporter on here for some insight, and you do seem like a decent guy. So, no dig at you but, do your lot always cheat by refusing to return the ball to the opposition when the match has been stopped for one (or in this case two) of your players to be treated for (head) injuries? Or was this a one off? What is your take on that situation? We clearly had possession, in your half, when the ref (rightly) stopped play.

[Wes Tender]

It is always nice to get a decent opposition supporter on here for some insight, and you do seem like a decent guy. So, no dig at you but, do your lot always cheat by refusing to return the ball to the opposition when the match has been stopped for one (or in this case two) of your players to be treated for (head) injuries? Or was this a one off? What is your take on that situation? We clearly had possession, in your half, when the ref (rightly) stopped play.

 

Yes, that was diabolical, wasn't it? Broke up the play nicely for them when we were gathering momentum too.

 

As for the Yedlin tackle, here it is, one of the numerous videos out there featuring it, together with much comment from the likes of Pardew and Redknapp and other commentators.

 

http://wittyfutty.com/2017/10/video-deandre-yedlin-terrible-tackle-vs-nathan-redmond/

[jawillwill]

Mike Ashley has just put Newcastle up for sale. That's what conceding two goals against Saints will do to you these days .

[farawaysaint]

2 goals and a point. Improvement, let's see if we can continue.

[Baird of the land]

Wouldn't want yedlin challenge to be a straight red but it was a second yellow. There's a huge issue of consistency though in decision making on those sort of lunges recently. I don't want players scared of tackling by fear of any mistiming resulting in a straight red.

 

Equally I thought the head injury thing was hugely inconsistent. Last season we conceded after ref forced one of our players off whereas here he let them both stay on and also awarded a highly dubious possession to them when it appeared that if anyone had the ball it was us.

[SaveloyMush]

Not at all. I think he’s a pr1ck. But I also thought he was good. Having seen the highlights now, I agree that there were a couple of moments to be concerned about (1st goal and the bit leading up to their flukey crossbar moment, but not the 2nd goal), perhaps he is still rusty or perhaps he will prove to be a little lackadaisical in covering the ground - time will tell - but there were also countless times where he did something good. Towering headers most notably, as well as being a threat at corners, something we have sorely missed. Sure, maybe these aspects of the game are things which require less “effort”, but rather than me being an apologist I think it’s more likely that those who have convinced themselves VVD doesn’t care (which he probably doesn’t, to an extent) are also victims of confirmation bias in that every mistake is ‘evidence’ of what they suspected.

 

Yes, van Dijk was his usual imperious self in the air, but being 6'5" and built like a brick outhouse make heading the ball away as easy as farting for him. In every other (dis)respect, he clearly didn't want to be on the pitch. His body language is even worse than Bertrand's and he appears to be saving himself for his next club. I am not sure anyone will stump up 60m+ for him if he continues to perform in such a disinterested fashion (maybe that's the plan...).

[SuperSAINT]

Interesting stat on MNF that 9 of our starters vs Newcastle played international football during the break.

 

Only 2 of Newcastle's starting XI did.

[doddisalegend]

Just watched the extended highlights on the O/s. The defending and VVD in particular look even worse the second time around for both goals. Forster is just **** poor on so many levels for their second while VVD just looks half arsed. Also I didn't realise it was the much maligned Redmond who delivered that rather nice cross field ball for Gabbi's goal (I guess technically it was an assist ). Can't help feeling if that ball from Redmond had fallen to Gabbi rather than Tadic it would have been a goal.

[mrfahaji]

Yes, van Dijk was his usual imperious self in the air, but being 6'5" and built like a brick outhouse make heading the ball away as easy as farting for him. In every other (dis)respect, he clearly didn't want to be on the pitch. His body language is even worse than Bertrand's and he appears to be saving himself for his next club. I am not sure anyone will stump up 60m+ for him if he continues to perform in such a disinterested fashion (maybe that's the plan...).

 

I guess that's partly my point. It doesn't matter whether it's easy for him, he still did it, and to the level that other players in our ranks wouldn't have done so well.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if he was saving himself for the next club, which would be pretty disgraceful, but I don't think he has shown anything other than being a bit of a ***t in the off-season (and since). Still shouldn't sell to Liverpool at any price, it's too funny seeing them flounder - not sure I could take them being good while our fortunes go down the sh1tter...

[tajjuk]

Apart from the 2 away games in Manchester, don't really see much to worry about with that set of fixtures based on current form of those teams. Liverpool are poor, Everton are rubbish, Bournemouth poor, Arsenal poor, Leicester poor, Spurs at Wembley struggling (but we will probably lose), even Chelsea are quite beatable at the moment. Of course things may and probably will change before then, Koeman will probably have been sacked for example. But four of those 9 teams are currently below us in the League. Lining that up as a "lose 9 games" sequence at the moment is frankly laughable.

 

Yeh to be fair none of those teams are setting the world alight aside the two Manchesters.

 

We should also not overlook the fact that we are clearly struggling against teams that set out to contain us and hit on the break, many of those teams won't and a more open game might benefit us more.

 

Plus goalkeeper aside if Romeu and VVD regain form, Bertrand cheers up a little, then that back 4 with Romeu and Lemina in front is very tough to beat.

[Saint_clark]

Yeh to be fair none of those teams are setting the world alight aside the two Manchesters.

 

We should also not overlook the fact that we are clearly struggling against teams that set out to contain us and hit on the break, many of those teams won't and a more open game might benefit us more.

 

Plus goalkeeper aside if Romeu and VVD regain form, Bertrand cheers up a little, then that back 4 with Romeu and Lemina in front is very tough to beat.

 

That's a hell of a lot of ifs.

And i'll say it again, it doesn't matter that we're playing teams that are out of form if we ourselves are in dire form anyway.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I'm still convinced that 50% of our inability to score and to a lesser extent defend, is down to the system imposed by Les across the club when in the 1st team we do not have enough players capable of understanding the system.

 

On a positive note I've heard we're definitely looking at bringing in a new playmaker / striker type in January. Sounded like the club knows exactly who they want (not Theo).

[Pilchards]

A safe prediction that the game will go like this.

The toons will have two golden chances first half while we will have one scuff Redmond chance.

Might be 0-1 at half time but that depends on how Forster is feeling.

 

Think I got that spot on

[The Fish]

Yedlin was already on a yellow before that tackle, so at the very least he should have received the red card for a second yellow, even if you are benevolent enough towards your player to excuse the tackle as being unworthy of a red by itself. Whether it was malicious in that it was deliberately intended to do Redmond physical harm or not, only Yedlin knows for sure. However, I agree with the pundits that had Redmond not lifted his feet off the ground on impact, then he could have suffered quite a serious injury.

 

To counter your justifiable comment that had you gone down to 10 men, you would have shut up shop and not conceded the penalty, I will be mischievous and wonder whether we would have been more of a threat had Redmond indeed been injured and therefore had to be substituted.

 

I applaud Newcastle though for continuing to play attacking football when ahead, instead of parking the bus.

 

Yeah I think Benitez would have liked to park the bus, but with Joselu & Perez going off exhausted and Gayle crocked we didn't have someone up front that would keep the ball/relieve the pressure.

 

It is always nice to get a decent opposition supporter on here for some insight, and you do seem like a decent guy. So, no dig at you but, do your lot always cheat by refusing to return the ball to the opposition when the match has been stopped for one (or in this case two) of your players to be treated for (head) injuries? Or was this a one off? What is your take on that situation? We clearly had possession, in your half, when the ref (rightly) stopped play.

 

No worries mate, not going to throw a hissy fit, I'm not Jonjo.

 

It's such a rare occurrence that I can't honestly say if we do anything like that "on the regular". Never noticed us failing to give the ball back if you'd put it out. With it being a clash of heads it was the ref that stopped play, not Southampton, so honestly I've no problem with us keeping possession. Had Lemina put it out of play I 100% think you should have had the ball returned to you. Fwiw, I don't think it changed the game much.

 

 

 

Re: Ashley publicly putting us up for sale, there's a few things to consider;

• He's done it before, 9 years ago and nothing happened
  
• He's proven to be a liar, proven in a law court
  
• This may be just a ruse to drive up the price of the parties who've already signed the NDA
  
• It may be a ruse to lure actual suitors because those parties were just tyre kickers
  
• We have a big tax case hanging over us which may scare off suitors/prolong the negotiations
  

 

Nobody is even contemplating a Saudi prince flooding the club with billions of pounds worth of superstars, even someone with Ashley's finances would be fine if they had a modicum of ambition. Something that the fat Spurs fan has lacked. He bought us a decade ago with the intention of a quick sale for a quick profit to an oligarch. He didn't do due diligence and the size of our debt scuppered those plans. However, he had meetings with Mansour's representatives pre-Man City. Too bad he turned up late and disheveled, without a gift and was apparently rude throughout. Otherwise it may well have been us watching our silverware searching, skillful, stirring side smash Stoke for seven. (No idea what prompted the alliteration there).

 

Could you imagine what my club could be with an ambitious, competent owner? We've already got the manager, the stadium, the fanbase, the (ancient) history... Can't blame some of us for dreaming. But, despite what you'll hear on 606 or talkSport, Newcastle fans aren't wanting the moon on a stick, just a club that we can be proud of. We've not had that for years. And just when we think we do, Ashley lies to Keegan, lies to Shearer, fires Hughton, lies to Benitez. The bloke is a pox and while we're all aware that for every Mansour, there's 4 Vincent Tans, we just need rid of him now.

 

What changes have your Chinese investors wrought? Anything yet, big plans afoot, sorted out improvements to your training ground/youth facilities?

[Saint Billy]

Well, as regards our new owner it's encouraging, he turned up for a game the other week.

 

Even better news, he brought his daughter.

[Winnersaint]

What changes have your Chinese investors wrought? Anything yet, big plans afoot, sorted out improvements to your training ground/youth facilities?

 

As far as future plans are concerned all we know at present is business as usual. The Staplewood Campus is generally regarded as one of the top 5 in the Premier League and has been the subject of considerable development and investment since Markus Liebherr took us over in 2009. Whether further development is necessary, desirable or in the plans for the new owners is debatable. Everything is contained there including the academy. The production line has slowed a little recently. This may be a legacy of time spent in the Football League in the last ten years.

[derry]

Back to the football match. Another manager that is obsessed by possession even if nearly all of it is in our half. What impressed me about Newcastle was their ability to break quickly and get runners up in support causing the defence problems. Redmond, Tadic were hopeless and made no effort to make runs just waited around to receive the ball. Long was the only one to make runs, Gabbiadini drifted into space as expected nobody else made any effort to get numbers into the box because whenever Redmond and Tadic received the ball they were on their wrong foot so just turned and played the ball back to the full backs then to the centre backs for another pointless pass it around while Newcastle got their team goal side.

 

I know that it's the vogue to play off the wrong side but that is to achieve what Gabbiadini did when he was cornered on the right pulled away across the box and hit a reverse shot into the bottom corner with his natural left foot. Neither Tadic or Redmond who are pretty one footed ever make that move to open up a shot on their strong foot so there is absolutely no point in playing them on their weak sides. Boufal might but doesn't, so in my opinion we would get more out of those players on their natural sides.

 

The one thing we have to get is full backs and forwards/midfielders making runs and getting the ball up to the runners quickly before they run offside. We are painfully slow and 72% possession across the back four losing 2-1 is a bloody nonsense as at Stoke. Winning is all, the manager needs to get real and forget about this control the game by possession crap, It is the opponents that are really controlling the game by letting us make 500 plus passes sideways and backwards in our own half. You are only controlling the game if you are making opponents uncomfortable and overloading their defence.

Edited 17 October, 2017 by derry

[mrfahaji]

Could you imagine what my club could be with an ambitious, competent owner? We've already got the manager, the stadium, the fanbase, the (ancient) history... Can't blame some of us for dreaming. But, despite what you'll hear on 606 or talkSport, Newcastle fans aren't wanting the moon on a stick, just a club that we can be proud of. We've not had that for years. And just when we think we do, Ashley lies to Keegan, lies to Shearer, fires Hughton, lies to Benitez. The bloke is a pox and while we're all aware that for every Mansour, there's 4 Vincent Tans, we just need rid of him now.

 

I agree that Newcastle would be an attractive club for an investor, but I don't really understand why anyone would wish for a Sheikh Mansour. Man City might play great football, but it's a shallow victory when you've simply bought your success. City fans used to play on the fact they were the real club of Manchester, and now look at them. An empty vessel of club that represent what's wrong with the modern game. I was going to say it's better than having your club ruined by a Tan or Allam, but is it really? Either way you lose connection with the club that's felt part of your upbringing, your community, and your life. Maybe it's better to feel like you need to fight for your club rather than have your club outgrow you and leave you behind.

[Dangermouth]

Back to the football match. Another manager that is obsessed by possession even if nearly all of it is in our half. What impressed me about Newcastle was their ability to break quickly and get runners up in support causing the defence problems. Redmond, Tadic were hopeless and made no effort to make runs just waited around to receive the ball. Long was the only one to make runs, Gabbiadini drifted into space as expected nobody else made any effort to get numbers into the box because whenever Redmond and Tadic received the ball they were on their wrong foot so just turned and played the ball back to the full backs then to the centre backs for another pointless pass it around while Newcastle got their team goal side.

 

I know that it's the vogue to play off the wrong side but that is to achieve what Gabbiadini did when he was cornered on the right pulled away across the box and hit a reverse shot into the bottom corner with his natural left foot. Neither Tadic or Redmond who are pretty one footed ever make that move to open up a shot on their strong foot so there is absolutely no point in playing them on their weak sides. Boufal might but doesn't, so in my opinion we would get more out of those players on their natural sides.

 

The one thing we have to get is full backs and forwards/midfielders making runs and getting the ball up to the runners quickly before they run offside. We are painfully slow and 72% possession across the back four losing 2-1 is a bloody nonsense as at Stoke. Winning is all, the manager needs to get real and forget about this control the game by possession crap, It is the opponents that are really controlling the game by letting us make 500 plus passes sideways and backwards in our own half. You are only controlling the game if you are making opponents uncomfortable and overloading their defence.

 

Agreed. And agreed that it is something that both Puel and Pellegrino and possibly a lot of others; managers, pundits, coaches, journalists (cough), fans (coughing fit) fail to see. Look back at Yernited when they were good and won a lot of games, they were on the attack all the time. No idea of the possession figures but do recollect they had the ball a lot and looked to make chances in order to score goals in order to win games.

 

Anyone who thinks that because we pass the ball around between defenders a lot means we're winning the game. unless it's right at the death and we're doing what Liverpool did years ago and just killing time, shouldn't be allowed in a stadium.

[mrfahaji]

There's nothing wrong with defenders passing it around, passing it from side to side etc. You do have to be a little bit patient at times. But the problem we have is that we never switch it up a gear, and too often when we DO have a chance to try a more attacking pass, we hesitate and then miss the opportunity, opting instead to go for a 'simpler' sideways/backwards ball.

[SaintMB]

We only tend to look interested once we're a goal down, so clearly the manager needs to send the players out with that mindset. Stop playing for a draw and trying to 'control' a game until you are actually ahead and in control of the game.

[max_saints]

Yes, van Dijk was his usual imperious self in the air, but being 6'5" and built like a brick outhouse make heading the ball away as easy as farting for him. In every other (dis)respect, he clearly didn't want to be on the pitch. His body language is even worse than Bertrand's and he appears to be saving himself for his next club. I am not sure anyone will stump up 60m+ for him if he continues to perform in such a disinterested fashion (maybe that's the plan...).

 

Considering no one made an actual offer for him in the last window, I’m not sure he should be ‘saving himself for the next club’. Surely this is his shop window moment

[doddisalegend]

There's nothing wrong with defenders passing it around, passing it from side to side etc. You do have to be a little bit patient at times. But the problem we have is that we never switch it up a gear, and too often when we DO have a chance to try a more attacking pass, we hesitate and then miss the opportunity, opting instead to go for a 'simpler' sideways/backwards ball.

 

It's interesting to me that we are the 5th highest passers in the league and have the 4th highest amount of back passes this season which kind of sums up how people feel about our game plan at the moment. Having said the current top team for passes and back passes in the league this season is man city followed closely by spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool arguably teams we as fans would want saints to emulate. Clearly there is a difference in the quality of players at those clubs (especially in attack) to what is available to saints and with out that quality you have to wonder if it is worth us trying to play possession football.

[eelpie]

Can't argue with this. I try not to panic when it comes to Saints, been supporting too long to try and predict anything, but I'm officially going dalek atm. I suspect we'll be flirting with the relegation spots after that run of fixtures.

 

It concerns me too. Right now 40 points seems a long way off. And we really need 45 to be sure of surviving in this league.

[mrfahaji]

Here are my thoughts on the game:

 

After sitting through one of our worst performances of recent times versus Watford, I’m glad Sunday didn’t plunge to such depths. There were some positives, but unfortunately the bright spots are overshadowed by the things that aren’t working.

 

I wasn’t sure about the starting line up, as it meant we were going to be outnumbered in the middle, but the main thing was that we did SOMETHING different. When the game kicked off, you could see straight away that there was a massive gap between CMs & CFs. Our tactics seemed to surpass this problem by only playing diagonal balls and exploiting the wings, which worked for about 20 mins before Newcastle wised up to it. Once they closed off these routes we struggled. The problem we had with this formation was that we continue to neglect getting to the by-line and whipping crosses over in favour of coming back and cutting in. Without a ‘linking’ player between the lines, an inside ball to Romeu or Lemina was invariably a backwards or at best sideways ball. On top of this, our strikers were horrifically isolated as none of them dropped deeper to pick up the ball, we weren’t providing them with crosses, and we didn’t have enough movement to effectively mount attacks through the middle.

 

It’s great that Gabbiadini scored, I am a fan of his and firmly believe he should be starting. But his ‘performance’ was not that great – in the first half his touch was wayward and he was largely anonymous. If Austin put in the same performance he would be criticised for his lack of mobility. I’m not actually lamenting Gabbiadini here though, but rather that our tactics don’t play to his strengths. Even his goal was a result of him deciding to go it alone.

 

Redmond actually put in a couple of good crosses early on, one of which Tadic should have scored (though were we that surprised Tadic didn’t score a header?), not to mention a good pass leading up to Gabbiadini’s equaliser, but his general play is so frustrating and typical of our play. Whereas Lemina’s first touch always seems to take him away from danger or into the right area, Redmond’s first touch always takes him backwards. It’s insane. Is he a product of our system? Or is he one of the reasons it’s not working? On the other side of the field we have Tadic, who plays a similar way - I generally find Tadic less frustrating because his slow build up is normally a result of looking for an eventual forward pass, but he had a chance to whip in a cross in the first two minutes of the match and chose to turn back. The ball eventually found its way back to Yoshida. Just cross it man! As much as Redmond drives me up the wall, I barely remember Tadic touching the ball in the last 20 minutes, it’s no wonder Puel always took him off.

 

The other problem we have is our lack of forward movement. It’s a bit of a chicken & egg scenario though – are we being told to pass sideways, so therefore we don’t bother making forward runs? Or do none of our players run forwards, so the only option is then a sideways ball? Look at Newcastle’s second goal, it happens because they have several players running forwards – it’s not really a difficult concept – which puts defenders on the back foot and creates more space. We, on the other hand, are so static. Overlapping fullbacks are pretty much our only source of forward play. Except, when Boufal came on, we had a player who presumably ignores the advice from the manager and starts running at people. And what happens? We start to look a threat, because the defenders hate it. The penalty came as a result of us breaking forward at speed. Yes, Boufal’s touch was abysmal, but sometimes you make your own luck. The loose ball falls to Long who is also charging forward and it ends with a penalty. I can see why Boufal is a concern, because he wants to pull out a trick even when it’s totally unnecessary, and that has to go from his game, not least because it can slow things down. But his ability and desire to beat a man and also to drive at the defence means he offers more than Redmond.

 

I thought Cedric did ok, Yoshida was fantastic, I don’t understand the level of criticism van Dijk is getting, Bertrand looks disinterested, Romeu and Lemina both did well battling in the midfield but Lemina has an extra dimension to his game, Long showed some good glimpses and Davis improved our play when he came on. We can’t go on having such a liability in goal though. If my heart is in my mouth every time the ball goes near Forster, surely the players don’t have much confidence in him either. The second goal was totally his fault – people are criticising the defenders but aside from Romeu tracking back a bit better I’m not sure what more they could have done, it was an excellent move from Newcastle and we restricted them to a half chance from distance. The first one I have a little bit of sympathy with Forster, but the situation stemmed from him being so slow to get up in the first place.

 

Although we scored 2, I don’t think this formation was a success, but 3-5-2 could still work, as it would give an extra man to link midfield and forwards, and it would do away with the two players most guilty of stopping play to cut inside. As for our prospects for the season, being relieved to have drawn with an “ok” Newcastle at home is not a good sign at all.

 

The atmosphere was predictably flat again. Totally understood why no-one could muster any encouragement against Watford because we were so poor and devoid of ideas, but at 2-1 down on Sunday we had been a bit unlucky and were still in with a shout. Yet even the Northam was pretty quiet. I sang an entire verse of OWTS at the top of my lungs at one point (when the Northam started to sing it), thinking “soon at least one person in my block will join in with me”, but they didn’t. Sad.

[derry]

It's interesting to me that we are the 5th highest passers in the league and have the 4th highest amount of back passes this season which kind of sums up how people feel about our game plan at the moment. Having said the current top team for passes and back passes in the league this season is man city followed closely by spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool arguably teams we as fans would want saints to emulate. Clearly there is a difference in the quality of players at those clubs (especially in attack) to what is available to saints and with out that quality you have to wonder if it is worth us trying to play possession football.

 

No wondering about it at all. It isn't. Take City as an example, how often do they overload defences and take easy tap ins. That is their end result through getting plenty of runners into the box. Tadic, Redmond, Davis, Boufale, JWP etc spectating thirty plus yds out from goal with one or two in the box won't ever do that. Passing back to full backs and centre backs ten yds inside our own half after breaking half way into the opponents half as Redmond and Tadic both did many times on Saturday because they can't go by players on their wrong side won't either.

[trousers]

It's interesting to me that we are the 5th highest passers in the league and have the 4th highest amount of back passes this season which kind of sums up how people feel about our game plan at the moment. Having said the current top team for passes and back passes in the league this season is man city followed closely by spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool arguably teams we as fans would want saints to emulate. Clearly there is a difference in the quality of players at those clubs (especially in attack) to what is available to saints and with out that quality you have to wonder if it is worth us trying to play possession football.

So, what the stats show is that we're good at foreplay but rubbish at penetration?

[Saint Billy]

So, what the stats show is that we're good at foreplay but rubbish at penetration?

 

Oh cripes, I thought I was the only one.

[doddisalegend]

So, what the stats show is that we're good at foreplay but rubbish at penetration?

 

Pretty much... what we need is the football equivalent of Ron Jeremy upfront

[aintforever]

So, what the stats show is that we're good at foreplay but rubbish at penetration?

 

And sloppy at the back.

[Saint Billy]

And no clean sheet.

[Saint86]

We also like to give it away for free. If we are going to be successful then people need to earn it.

[captainchris]

Back to the football match. Another manager that is obsessed by possession even if nearly all of it is in our half. What impressed me about Newcastle was their ability to break quickly and get runners up in support causing the defence problems. Redmond, Tadic were hopeless and made no effort to make runs just waited around to receive the ball. Long was the only one to make runs, Gabbiadini drifted into space as expected nobody else made any effort to get numbers into the box because whenever Redmond and Tadic received the ball they were on their wrong foot so just turned and played the ball back to the full backs then to the centre backs for another pointless pass it around while Newcastle got their team goal side.

 

I know that it's the vogue to play off the wrong side but that is to achieve what Gabbiadini did when he was cornered on the right pulled away across the box and hit a reverse shot into the bottom corner with his natural left foot. Neither Tadic or Redmond who are pretty one footed ever make that move to open up a shot on their strong foot so there is absolutely no point in playing them on their weak sides. Boufal might but doesn't, so in my opinion we would get more out of those players on their natural sides.

 

The one thing we have to get is full backs and forwards/midfielders making runs and getting the ball up to the runners quickly before they run offside. We are painfully slow and 72% possession across the back four losing 2-1 is a bloody nonsense as at Stoke. Winning is all, the manager needs to get real and forget about this control the game by possession crap, It is the opponents that are really controlling the game by letting us make 500 plus passes sideways and backwards in our own half. You are only controlling the game if you are making opponents uncomfortable and overloading their defence.

Excellent post....

Why can’t our amateur manager and God forbid coaches see it...

Maybe they are not up to the job - it’s logical is it not?

[Dusic]

The sooner Andy Durman brings his coaching badges to this thread, the better.

[The Fish]

I agree that Newcastle would be an attractive club for an investor, but I don't really understand why anyone would wish for a Sheikh Mansour. Man City might play great football, but it's a shallow victory when you've simply bought your success. City fans used to play on the fact they were the real club of Manchester, and now look at them. An empty vessel of club that represent what's wrong with the modern game. I was going to say it's better than having your club ruined by a Tan or Allam, but is it really? Either way you lose connection with the club that's felt part of your upbringing, your community, and your life. Maybe it's better to feel like you need to fight for your club rather than have your club outgrow you and leave you behind.

 

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you can have success in modern football that hasn't been bought and paid for. Not sustained success anyway. Newcastle United haven't won anything of note in my lifetime and I've got a proper grown up job where I use acronyms, buzzwords and everything.

 

A new owner with ambition and who isn't an embarrassment would in itself be wonderful.

 

that said, the downside of buying success is that it'll come with a caveat "they bought success", but as I mentioned, realistically to compete with the financial powerhouses that dominate our leagues, you have to be a financial powerhouse yourself.

 

I'm sure if you were to ask Man City fans how they feel about their league titles, their FA and league cup titles, they won't be too bothered about the money it cost them to achieve it.

 

We'd all love a team of local grown talent gorwin with the club as it becomes a genuine contender, but frankly that's not going to happen for us.

 

...You are only controlling the game if you are making opponents uncomfortable and overloading their defence.

 

Excellent post.

 

I think the difference between bad and good possession football is the former waits for the defenders to make mistakes, the latter forces it.

[suewhistle]

. Newcastle United haven't won anything of note in my lifetime and I've got a proper grown up job where I use acronyms, buzzwords and everything.

 

Hah. Not that old then.:-) A lot of us here have been there and said, blow the boredom and bullsh*t, sod this for a lark.. If you don't remember the Inter City Fairs Cup you're young!

[Redbul]

I remember that match! Neil Heaney had come just before the come back I seem to remember!

[Charlie Wayman]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you can have success in modern football that hasn't been bought and paid for.

 

....the downside of buying success is that it'll come with a caveat "they bought success"

 

I'm sure if you were to ask Man City fans how they feel about their league titles, their FA and league cup titles, they won't be too bothered about the money it cost them to achieve it.

 

 

That horse bolted long ago, there is no other way to success now in any sport. Money is King - or Queen for the PC's. In football it's been like that for ever for Real Madrid and Barcelona and you don't hear too many complaints about pyrrhic victories in Spain.

[OttawaSaint]

I remember that match! Neil Heaney had come just before the come back I seem to remember!

 

Did he need to change his shorts?

[Graffito]

So, what the stats show is that we're good at foreplay but rubbish at penetration?

 

Do you remember that spoof film of Sven preparing to get into bed with Nancy. 20 minutes getting undressed. 10 minutes folding his underpants. He never got there. That's Saints.

[The Fish]

Hah. Not that old then.:-) A lot of us here have been there and said, blow the boredom and bullsh*t, sod this for a lark.. If you don't remember the Inter City Fairs Cup you're young!

 

The old bloke who used to sit beside me in the Gallowgate spent much of the game trying to tell us about Tony Green, Jinky Jim Smith and SuperMac from the early 70s. How they were better than this ****e. As Tino put the 3rd past Barcelona in the Champions League.

 

To be fair, he was probably right.

 

That horse bolted long ago, there is no other way to success now in any sport. Money is King - or Queen for the PC's. In football it's been like that for ever for Real Madrid and Barcelona and you don't hear too many complaints about pyrrhic victories in Spain.

 

Yeah, How can you possibly hope to compete when most players want to make as much money as they can in a short career and win as much as possible which means they'll sharp leave southampton in the hunt for trophies at Liverpool, or when the manager can leave if a "big job" comes along, when the owner is more bothered about commercial partners than the fans.

 

The only people that seem to want the club to win stuff is the fans.

[whelk]

The "give Boufal a run" mantra is just a variation on the "give Ramirez a run" garbage.

 

It didnt work then, it wont work now. He doesnt have the physical presence required for the English game, and doesnt have the vision / maturity to match his skills. Running 30 yards with the ball then losing it brings nothing to the team.

 

Time to accept we've had another horror transfer and move on.

 

Yeah why would anyone want this guy in the side?