Stoke 2 Saints 1 - Reactions

[doddisalegend]

Just seen Yoshis goal on MoTD **** it we might as well play Maya up front looks more of a striker then any of our strikers

[farawaysaint]

Eh, we lost to Stoke away. They are a solid side who have drawn with United and beaten Arsenal at their ground. Panicking is a bit much.

[hasper57saint]

Stoke have always been a difficult physical team.One day soon I expect to see an opponent player take his shirt off and offer it to the 'puller' and say "If you want it that much you can have it" Result? puller goes free,shirt remover yellow card.Refs are condoning this cheating game after game.

[doddisalegend]

Eh, we lost to Stoke away. They are a solid side who have drawn with United and beaten Arsenal at their ground. Panicking is a bit much.

 

They were crap and suffering a major injury crisis at the back they were for the taking.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Eh, we lost to Stoke away. They are a solid side who have drawn with United and beaten Arsenal at their ground. Panicking is a bit much.

 

Taking in isolation yes, but added to Swansea, Wolves Res, West Ham (2 up against 10 men, needing a last minute pen) Watford & Huddersfield , alarm bells should be ringing. We've scored in one home game , and only once against 10 men. We've scored 2 away & one of those was in defeat, whilst the other against the leagues worst side. We have had by far & away the easiest set of fixtures of any side (and with WBA, Newcastle & Brighton coming up). We couldn't of hand picked a better set of fixtures (bar Man U), we've even had one away game switched to home. And we went out of the cup at home to a **** poor championship side. Panic is too strong a word, but it's not just the Stoke result

 

 

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[austsaint]

They were crap and suffering a major injury crisis at the back they were for the taking.

 

Did they have a major injury crisis at the back though? Zouma and Wimmer looked not to shabby to be fair. Stoke aren't a bad side; a few roughnuts with a sprinkling of quality like Choupo-Moting and Shaqiri.

[Bridge]

Taking in isolation yes, but added to Swansea, Wolves Res, West Ham (2 up against 10 men, needing a last minute pen) Watford & Huddersfield , alarm bells should be ringing. We've scored in one home game , and only once against 10 men. We've scored 2 away & one of those was in defeat, whilst the other against the leagues worst side. We have had by far & away the easiest set of fixtures of any side (and with WBA, Newcastle & Brighton coming up). We couldn't of hand picked a better set of fixtures (bar Man U), we've even had one away game switched to home. And we went out of the cup at home to a **** poor championship side. Panic is too strong a word, but it's not just the Stoke result

 

 

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Well said and I can't agree more.

[CB Fry]

Eh, we lost to Stoke away. They are a solid side who have drawn with United and beaten Arsenal at their ground. Panicking is a bit much.

We sacked our last manager for finishing eighth - therefore we can only conclude that finishing eighth is not good enough for those running the club.

 

To finish better than eighth I'd say winning away at Stoke would not be an unreasonable expectation, as would picking up a fair few more points from a very simple opening run of fixtures.

 

We need significant improvement very quickly.

[verlaine1979]

There is a lot of what you write I agree with, but a couple of points I'd argue with. Stephen Davis is no coward; his game is showing signs of decline as you would probably expect in a 32 yo. Davis is still a valuable player but rightly will be benched or used as a sub as the season (s) go on. Redmond isn't a coward, but there's no doubt about his limitations and non-team approach to go with his strengths of speed and ability to beat a defender. As much as I like Shane Long, he is never going to deliver as a starting striker, particularly when played up front on his own - at best he has a role as an impact sub, or perhaps played wide. Agree with you about Lemina/Romeu and the Defence - that is sorted but the attack side of things is alarmingly weak.

 

Davis and Redmond are both pretty cowardly in possession. Both prefer to offload to someone else rather than attempting something that would risk losing the ball. In Davis I suspect that's just a natural conservatism in his game, whereas with Redmond I suspect he tries to avoid doing anything that might make him look bad (hence why he's never slow to criticise the player he's just passed to if they don't magically engineer a decent chance).

[Cabrone]

Loads of possession but with 1 up front it's groundhog day.

 

Whether he's stubborn or a rabbit caught in the headlights the clock is definitely ticking for MP. Can see him getting the boot before Xmas if he refuses to shake it up and get those goals flowing.

 

I may sound like a broken record but play 2 up front and instruct the midfield to provide service they need. Austin and Gabbi will score if you service them.

 

If you want your 5 man mid then reduce the defense to 3 CBs but for pete's sake try something else.

[doddisalegend]

Loads of possession but with 1 up front it's groundhog day.

 

 

 

Whether he's stubborn or a rabbit caught in the headlights the clock is definitely ticking for MP. Can see him getting the boot before Xmas if he refuses to shake it up and get those goals flowing.

 

 

 

I may sound like a broken record but play 2 up front and instruct the midfield to provide service they need. Austin and Gabbi will score if you service them.

 

 

 

If you want your 5 man mid then reduce the defense to 3 CBs but for pete's sake try something else.

 

 

He will not get the boot before Xmas saints don't generally do mid season sackings and doing so only makes les and co look bad. MoPe will be backed and given time.

[Charlie Wayman]

He will not get the boot before Xmas saints don't generally do mid season sackings and doing so only makes les and co look bad. MoPe will be backed and given time.

 

One suspects the past is no pointer to the future since the change of ownership. Gao has paid £180m for what he believed to be a top six PL side that would make him the same sort of money as it did for the Liebherr's. The very idea of failure and relegation would be unthinkable to him. Guys with that sort of dosh to chuck about on trophy purchases didn't end up in the position they're in by being gifted of generous spirit, benevolence and patience. Don't be surprised if at the end of November if things have not improved significantly that the current coaching staff will be history.

[doddisalegend]

One suspects the past is no pointer to the future since the change of ownership. Gao has paid £180m for what he believed to be a top six PL side that would make him the same sort of money as it did for the Liebherr's. The very idea of failure and relegation would be unthinkable to him. Guys with that sort of dosh to chuck about on trophy purchases didn't end up in the position they're in by being gifted of generous spirit, benevolence and patience. Don't be surprised if at the end of November if things have not improved significantly that the current coaching staff will be history.

 

 

Why in the hell would Gao think he had just bought a top six side did he get Saints and Arsenal mixed in his Chinese guide to the English premier league.......

[maxi_sopez]

Went yesterday. My biggest takeaway, and it wouldn't have changed if we got the draw is: God we are boring and predictable to watch. it was just so predictable pass it out wide, crap cross, repeat. I think this is is worse than last year. really boring.

 

we desperately need some pace going forward!

[Micky]

Incredible how quiet this place is after a defeat. We'd be on 12 pages by now if we'd won

I agree we would be on page 12 or more, that's because we have more positive supporters than negative ones who only like to comment when we lose. I was at the game yesterday, and while it's obvious we have some problems, we didn't play that badly and deserved at least a point in my opinion.

 

But you crack on trolling away as usual. Your trolling rubbish will get three page count up for you.

 

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[Micky]

Thought we dominated them for long periods and created some decent chances. Fraser had another excellent game, and Boufal put in a positive performance. Stoke away is never going to be an easy game.

Yep, it was nowhere near as bad as some are making out.

 

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[Dusic]

Yep, it was nowhere near as bad as some are making out.

 

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Did you go the game? I did and first half we were dreadful and but for Forster would have been 3-0 down at HT.

 

Stoke are fairly poor and we created nothing against them. All our possession was in front of them.

 

We looked most threatening in the last 5mins when we were desperate and put VVD up front and played direct.

 

Its very worrying - we won't score enough goals playing like we did yesterday and if we maintain scoring in less than 30% of matches like at the moment then we will be in a relegation battle.

[Micky]

Did you go the game? I did and first half we were dreadful and but for Forster would have been 3-0 down at HT.

 

Stoke are fairly poor and we created nothing against them. All our possession was in front of them.

 

We looked most threatening in the last 5mins when we were desperate and put VVD up front and played direct.

 

Its very worrying - we won't score enough goals playing like we did yesterday and if we maintain scoring in less than 30% of matches like at the moment then we will be in a relegation battle.

Yes I did go to the game, and I stand by what i said. Yes we have problems, first half wasnt great, second half was much better, we deserved at least a point. Your opinion differs, we agree to disagree.

 

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[Saint Fan CaM]

Surprised many don't see what's happening here. Why do 2 separate managers suddenly field teams that play identical football with the same results? Why do creative players come to the club and then after scoring a couple of early great inventive goals then seem to lose that ability? Can't be certain of course, but my gut instinct is that Reed insists on a particular style and mandates certain team selections. Black is his crony...the guy that reports back on training sessions...whether the Manager is diverting from "the Southampton way" . Plus as I've said before, our attacking players are not of Prem quality. Needs a massive change to turn it around now.

[Professor]

Surprised many don't see what's happening here. Why do 2 separate managers suddenly field teams that play identical football with the same results? Why do creative players come to the club and then after scoring a couple of early great inventive goals then seem to lose that ability? Can't be certain of course, but my gut instinct is that Reed insists on a particular style and mandates certain team selections. Black is his crony...the guy that reports back on training sessions...whether the Manager is diverting from "the Southampton way" . Plus as I've said before, our attacking players are not of Prem quality. Needs a massive change to turn it around now.

Well, there we are. It’s all a conspiracy orchestrated by Les Reed and his mole on the coaching staff, Eric Black. These are the same people who harboured Lord Lucan for years. I just hope that whoever posted this rubbish doesn’t actually believe it!

[danjosaint]

Well, there we are. It’s all a conspiracy orchestrated by Les Reed and his mole on the coaching staff, Eric Black. These are the same people who harboured Lord Lucan for years. I just hope that whoever posted this rubbish doesn’t actually believe it!

 

 

You may diss that reply but I believe that is very close to the truth

[Heisenberg]

You may diss that reply but I believe that is very close to the truth

 

Nah its BS. Its purely just coincidence that Puel n Pellegrino have binned their football philosophies and game style after joining us.

 

Coincidence only.

[miserableoldgit]

Surprised many don't see what's happening here. Why do 2 separate managers suddenly field teams that play identical football with the same results? Why do creative players come to the club and then after scoring a couple of early great inventive goals then seem to lose that ability? Can't be certain of course, but my gut instinct is that Reed insists on a particular style and mandates certain team selections. Black is his crony...the guy that reports back on training sessions...whether the Manager is diverting from "the Southampton way" . Plus as I've said before, our attacking players are not of Prem quality. Needs a massive change to turn it around now.

Can I ask why this would be? What advantage would Reed and Black gain from trying to impose a system of play that is obviously not working? It's all very well coming up with conspiracy theories but you have to follow them through and explain what they have to gain....

 

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[Micky]

Can I ask why this would be? What advantage would Reed and Black gain from trying to impose a system of play that is obviously not working? It's all very well coming up with conspiracy theories but you have to follow them through and explain what they have to gain....

 

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Stop asking the obvious questions and just go with the latest conspiracy theory. Les and Eric want us to play a system that sees us score no goals and get relegated.

 

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[CB Fry]

Stop asking the obvious questions and just go with the latest conspiracy theory. Les and Eric want us to play a system that sees us score no goals and get relegated.

 

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We're only one more defeat away from this forum going maximum retard = Les Reed is trying to get us relegated on purpose to spite the fans.

 

Just a sweepstake on who comes up with it first. Get your money on Nordic.

[OttawaSaint]

Reed and Black can’t melt steel beams!!!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Can I ask why this would be? What advantage would Reed and Black gain from trying to impose a system of play that is obviously not working? It's all very well coming up with conspiracy theories but you have to follow them through and explain what they have to gain....

 

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No conspiracy...its the "Southampton way" - surely you've not missed the fact that the system employed is installed right the way through the club from kids levels up? Les can't turn away from the project now...he IS the project. The problem is it's been starved of investment in certain areas and/or poor decisions made and not corrected, key building blocks have left the club, managerial appointments messed up, etc.

 

It all made sense and worked lovely up until the point we became a victim of our own success, but then the wheels started to come off. We lost far too many key players and staff in a relatively very short time - team spirit evaporated.

 

I don't pretend to have the answers, but I do feel the malaise is significant and not straightforward now. IMO its not something that will be corrected by playing 4-4-2 or swapping Gabbi for Long as some on here would have you believe. I do honestly think we've not seen the worst of this season yet unless something fundamental changes.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Lots of Internationals now for a couple of weeks. Let's hope someone picks up a knock or a pull that forces a change of line up.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Lots of Internationals now for a couple of weeks. Let's hope someone picks up a knock or a pull that forces a change of line up.

 

 

Really ??

[Shroppie]

Lots of Internationals now for a couple of weeks. Let's hope someone picks up a knock or a pull that forces a change of line up.

Yep. Injuries to Hoedt, Lemina, Bertrand, Maya and Cedric will help.

 

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[hasper57saint]

Lots of Internationals now for a couple of weeks. Let's hope someone picks up a knock or a pull that forces a change of line up.

 

Are you for real?

[Dangermouth]

Looking at some of Lambert's goals and knowing he wasn't fast, we still managed to get at teams before they were set rigid to prevent us doing anything other than crab football. Adkins could do it, why can't his successors?

[View From The Top]

Strange how others see it as the stokies I work with & friends who work at the club have all said, to a man and woman, how lucky they were, how well we played in the 2nd half.

 

Strange world.

[doddisalegend]

Strange how others see it as the stokies I work with & friends who work at the club have all said, to a man and woman, how lucky they were, how well we played in the 2nd half.

 

Strange world.

 

Same old story the last season or so though isn't it? We tend start the game poorly, more often than not go a goal down, and then up it in the second half before throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it the last 10-15 minutes and come away with nothing but everyone saying we were unlucky not to get something from the game.

[Saint Benali]

Strange how others see it as the stokies I work with & friends who work at the club have all said, to a man and woman, how lucky they were, how well we played in the 2nd half.

 

Strange world.

 

Very strange considering if it was not for Forster we would of got hammered.

This game in my view summed us up to a tee. Pass, pass, hoof, pass back to halfway line, pass back to keeper and repeat. Other than Yoshi goal we never threatened them.

[larry12]

Well, there we are. It’s all a conspiracy orchestrated by Les Reed and his mole on the coaching staff, Eric Black. These are the same people who harboured Lord Lucan for years. I just hope that whoever posted this rubbish doesn’t actually believe it!

 

Calls himself Professor to seem intelligent. Puts down constructive point of view which has legs. Why did Mp need Black? Did he have a choice? I say no. Therefore if Reed is shoving Black on MP, he could be interfering in other ways. Simple logic Professor.

[charliemiller]

Ok ...I know I am sad but I have analysed our play concentrating on our technical and possession stats in the final third ie our approach and attacking play .

 

WE play 40% more passes in the final third than for instance chelsea and man city , 30% more than arsenal and Liverpool and generally as an average between 15 % and 22 % more than most of the other teams in league including Bournemouth who we stand 22 % over .

 

This is based on the approach play in attack ,.

 

To summarise we get to the box we are one paced and pass it sideways or backwards then try to work it wide and cross generally .

 

Our problem is three fold .

 

Tempo ....there is no change of pace in the attack , watch the other sides the come alive around the box quicken the pace , there is nothing wrong with walking it out of defence and through midfield , brazil do it as do Barca ....but when they get around the box the tempo changes.... it turns the defenders it creates space , we are totally one paced and predictable.

 

Over coached .... there is no flair or adaptability in the team , everyone moves for a release pass be it backwards or sidewise fine , but they seem incapable of thinking fast enough to be creative , coach to keep the ball not be a threat to the opposing defence ....needs coaching out of them and i am sorry but redmond needs to be dropped and boufal who is the only player who currently has any attacking flair or imagination or remembers the idea is to score goals need a free role as a 10 and take a chance has to be better than where we are now.

 

Variety

 

we have none of this .....only when we are in the last five minutes do we try a different approach , there is nothing wrong with every now and again playing a long channel ball or one up the middle to turn the ops CBs around and give then something to be on there toes about .

Every time we have the ball it takes the same format .

 

Anyway heres hoping something changes , because a Rymans League team could defend against us currently

[Saint Garrett]

Strange how others see it as the stokies I work with & friends who work at the club have all said, to a man and woman, how lucky they were, how well we played in the 2nd half.

 

Strange world.

 

TBF - I watched it on a stream and didn't think we played badly, thought we deserved more from the game. Was a bit surprised at the meltdown on here when I read some of the comments. Problem is, our fans are all too used to playing ok, dominating the game, and then not winning. Under Koeman, we would have probably won that 1-0 away, dominated the game and been pretty comfortable. It's just not going for us at the moment.

[Charlie Wayman]

Calls himself Professor to seem intelligent. Puts down constructive point of view which has legs. Why did Mp need Black? Did he have a choice? I say no. Therefore if Reed is shoving Black on MP, he could be interfering in other ways. Simple logic Professor.

 

Something in the attic smells for sure. When Puel went the other coaches went with him but not Black. Why was that you may well ask? On the other hand Pellegrino does not seem to be the sort to challenge Reed so Black's usefulness may be limited. I still recall the very public touchline spat between Black & Tadic at SMS late last season that made me uneasy now and to wonder if anything much has changed behind the scenes.

[Charlie Wayman]

Ok ...I know I am sad but I have analysed our play concentrating on our technical and possession stats in the final third ie our approach and attacking play .

 

WE play 40% more passes in the final third than for instance chelsea and man city , 30% more than arsenal and Liverpool and generally as an average between 15 % and 22 % more than most of the other teams in league including Bournemouth who we stand 22 % over .

 

This is based on the approach play in attack ,.

 

To summarise we get to the box we are one paced and pass it sideways or backwards then try to work it wide and cross generally .

 

Our problem is three fold .

 

Tempo ....there is no change of pace in the attack , watch the other sides the come alive around the box quicken the pace , there is nothing wrong with walking it out of defence and through midfield , brazil do it as do Barca ....but when they get around the box the tempo changes.... it turns the defenders it creates space , we are totally one paced and predictable.

 

Over coached .... there is no flair or adaptability in the team , everyone moves for a release pass be it backwards or sidewise fine , but they seem incapable of thinking fast enough to be creative , coach to keep the ball not be a threat to the opposing defence ....needs coaching out of them and i am sorry but redmond needs to be dropped and boufal who is the only player who currently has any attacking flair or imagination or remembers the idea is to score goals need a free role as a 10 and take a chance has to be better than where we are now.

 

Variety

 

we have none of this .....only when we are in the last five minutes do we try a different approach , there is nothing wrong with every now and again playing a long channel ball or one up the middle to turn the ops CBs around and give then something to be on there toes about .

Every time we have the ball it takes the same format .

 

Anyway heres hoping something changes , because a Rymans League team could defend against us currently

 

The Chelsea v Man City game showed how it should be done. We look pedestrian alongside this teams, the gap is huge.

[Pamplemousse]

Calls himself Professor to seem intelligent. Puts down constructive point of view which has legs. Why did Mp need Black? Did he have a choice? I say no. Therefore if Reed is shoving Black on MP, he could be interfering in other ways. Simple logic Professor.

 

The players wanted Black to stay!

[the saint in winchester]

We sacked our last manager for finishing eighth - therefore we can only conclude that finishing eighth is not good enough for those running the club.

To finish better than eighth I'd say winning away at Stoke would not be an unreasonable expectation, as would picking up a fair few more points from a very simple opening run of fixtures.

 

We need significant improvement very quickly.

 

Puel was sacked for 'poor entertainment value' rather than 'only 8th'. Many of us said we would rather slip a few places and be entertained. Well, we have slipped a few places....while not being entertained.

[the saint in winchester]

Ok ...I know I am sad but I have analysed our play concentrating on our technical and possession stats in the final third ie our approach and attacking play .

 

WE play 40% more passes in the final third than for instance chelsea and man city , 30% more than arsenal and Liverpool and generally as an average between 15 % and 22 % more than most of the other teams in league including Bournemouth who we stand 22 % over .

 

This is based on the approach play in attack ,.

 

To summarise we get to the box we are one paced and pass it sideways or backwards then try to work it wide and cross generally .

 

Our problem is three fold .

 

Tempo ....there is no change of pace in the attack , watch the other sides the come alive around the box quicken the pace , there is nothing wrong with walking it out of defence and through midfield , brazil do it as do Barca ....but when they get around the box the tempo changes.... it turns the defenders it creates space , we are totally one paced and predictable.

 

Over coached .... there is no flair or adaptability in the team , everyone moves for a release pass be it backwards or sidewise fine , but they seem incapable of thinking fast enough to be creative , coach to keep the ball not be a threat to the opposing defence ....needs coaching out of them and i am sorry but redmond needs to be dropped and boufal who is the only player who currently has any attacking flair or imagination or remembers the idea is to score goals need a free role as a 10 and take a chance has to be better than where we are now.

 

Variety

 

we have none of this .....only when we are in the last five minutes do we try a different approach , there is nothing wrong with every now and again playing a long channel ball or one up the middle to turn the ops CBs around and give then something to be on there toes about .

Every time we have the ball it takes the same format .

 

Anyway heres hoping something changes , because a Rymans League team could defend against us currently

 

This is all good analysis and accords with what I see. The top teams don't dither about, they get it out wide and then hit that quick pass around the box for the attacker to run on to or simply carry it to the opposition box, pushing the defenders back. WHEREAS we play pedestrian possession football hoping to work an opening .. which we don't. Citeh play 2 touch football. One to control the ball, second to play it forward. We play crab football.

[sotonist]

The players wanted Black to stay!

 

won't be the first or last time the players backed a losing horse.

[Micky]

Strange how others see it as the stokies I work with & friends who work at the club have all said, to a man and woman, how lucky they were, how well we played in the 2nd half.

 

Strange world.

Not really, I was there and that's pretty much how i saw it. They are the home side, you would expect them to boss the game. Second half it was all us apart from where they scored.

 

We played well, we all know what three problem is, we can't score.

 

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[Micky]

Calls himself Professor to seem intelligent. Puts down constructive point of view which has legs. Why did Mp need Black? Did he have a choice? I say no. Therefore if Reed is shoving Black on MP, he could be interfering in other ways. Simple logic Professor.

 

Simple logic, or just a simpleton speculating?

 

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[View From The Top]

Not really, I was there and that's pretty much how i saw it. They are the home side, you would expect them to boss the game. Second half it was all us apart from where they scored.

 

We played well, we all know what three problem is, we can't score.

 

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I was there too and I also thought we were worth at least a point.

 

Luck simply isn't with us at the moment.

[captainchris]

Just seen Yoshis goal on MoTD **** it we might as well play Maya up front looks more of a striker then any of our strikers

 

This goes goes straight to the heart of the problem with football.....

People are brainwashed that players can only do one job on a pitch - totally untrue. The one exception being goalkeeper.....

‘Football people are ‘institutionalised’ they cannot see solutions that challenge their football ‘knowledge’ or football tradition. What is that ‘knowledge ? It is mostly Scotch Mist.

They tend to repeat the same mistakes time and time again. It’s only a very few people that can truely ‘manage’ a football team and those people could manage any team or company. The aura around football management is completely misplaced.

[captainchris]

won't be the first or last time the players backed a losing horse.

 

Ummmmmm Comfort Zone? It’s looking that way....

[Dangermouth]

This goes goes straight to the heart of the problem with football.....

People are brainwashed that players can only do one job on a pitch - totally untrue. The one exception being goalkeeper.....

‘Football people are ‘institutionalised’ they cannot see solutions that challenge their football ‘knowledge’ or football tradition. What is that ‘knowledge ? It is mostly Scotch Mist.

They tend to repeat the same mistakes time and time again. It’s only a very few people that can truely ‘manage’ a football team and those people could manage any team or company. The aura around football management is completely misplaced.

 

 

 

I like the abstraction. Some elements I might argue with, equally some might be more nuanced were you to expound so ....

 

But goalies? Surely you know they're the best strikers in the world, or think they are?!