Stoke 2 Saints 1 - Reactions

[Pamplemousse]

I completely agree that Reed has dropped a b*llock (will probably get told off for criticising him) but MP has to make the best of the squad he has available. We’ve got goalscorers sitting on the bench and a man that now hasn’t scored in 19 games as the one up front. It’s poor management, plain and simple.

 

He got the team wrong at the start, definitely.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

CP, Newcastle, Huddersfield, Brighton, West ham under Bilic are way worse than us. Then there are 3-4 on par at this point. We are a mid table team.

 

And again, good to see some rationality along with the melts

[syd_barrett_saint]

Well, at the very least today should be the last time Redmond starts for a while, and hopefully Pellegrino will see that we can play with Long and Gabbiadini at the same time, assuming one of them is on the wing (Long I think). Also would be nice to see Boufal get some starts now after he created our goal today... maybe even as number 10 in place of Davis? We should be strong enough in the middle against the poorer sides we have coming up with Lemina and Romeu behind Boufal.

[hypochondriac]

I'm officially worried now. We have played a succession of easy teams and have a poor collection of points. We fail to make enough chances and we are starting to make mistakes at the back. Poor.

[DuncanRG]

I completely agree that Reed has dropped a b*llock (will probably get told off for criticising him) but MP has to make the best of the squad he has available. We’ve got goalscorers sitting on the bench and a man that now hasn’t scored in 19 games as the one up front. It’s poor management, plain and simple.

 

Gabbiadini had a good run of starts and didn't do much. We all know this is a team problem.

 

CP, Newcastle, Huddersfield, Brighton, West ham under Bilic are way worse than us. Then there are 3-4 on par at this point. We are a mid table team.

 

We're also better than Swansea and Bournemouth, and should be better than most of the 3-4 I assume you're referring to, West Brom et al. Everyone's recalibrating their expectations at the moment.

Edited 30 September, 2017 by DuncanRG

[badgerx16]

Starting with ShLong up top is never going to worry Premier League defences.

[SuperSAINT]

Was desperate for the point.

 

If we can't score, we are in for one hell of a fight this season.

[Saint-Reece]

As echoed above I hope he notices how much better we looked with Boufal on the pitch and Redmond off it.

[shurlock]

And again, good to see some rationality along with the melts

 

Is there a dating app for the over-55s you can try pal - take a breather from this place?

[hackedoff]

We're not in a relegation battle - we'll beat the teams worse than us, but I very much doubt a top half finish is on the cards. 13th is our level at the moment. Maybe scrape 10th if we have a good transfer window in January, and we do our business EARLY.

 

You are right, we will beat all the teams that are worse than us, but that will only be Crystal Palace.

[Bad Wolf]

Main thing is, though, MP's press conferences are more lively so it's not all bad.

[striker]

My main issue is MP seems to be very stubborn and wants to play a certain formation, rather than looking at our players and playing a system that works best for them. We can't play only 1 striker up front. Our mids are not attacking enough and our strikers are not the kind of player that can play alone up top. I'd still play a formation with 2, or 3, up front. At the end we had Austin, Gabbi, and Long all on and were pounding away. Sure it was defensive mode for Stoke but still, at least we looked dangerous. We can play 3 in the back just fine with VVD and Yoshida

 

If we don't score we can't win.

[DuncanRG]

I couldn't watch the Utd game last week, but hear we were good in the second half. Can anyone explain what was different about that half? Was it a change in formation/personnel?

[simo]

If Long , Tadic and Redmond aren't dropped for the next game I'll be in the Mopel out camp !

[shurlock]

CP, Newcastle, Huddersfield, Brighton, West ham under Bilic are way worse than us. Then there are 3-4 on par at this point. We are a mid table team.

 

So we're basically better than the three newly promoted sides. Careful not to set expectations too high.

[badgerx16]

You are right, we will beat all the teams that are worse than us, but that will only be Crystal Palace.

 

We beat West Ham.

[Avenue_Saint]

MP is crap.

 

I'd snatch your hand off for 17th.

 

Behave. We've got a good team in the making, MP needs time. I really think a run of games with Boufal Tadic and Long behind Gabbi could do something special with THAT defence behind them.

 

We looked class for the last 15/20 mins. Didn't know where the attacks would be coming next from all of a sudden

[qwertyell]

Not sure what else there is to say that hasn't been repeated ad nauseum for months - we are absolutely shocking going forward.

 

In the early days of Puel, even if it didn't come off, we could at least see what he was TRYING to do, how he wanted us to attack and in what shape.

 

The biggest concern I have with Pellegrino is I don't see what the plan is. We're somehow both rigid and shapeless. We don't attack the goal, we just pass nicely and occasionally make half a yard of space on the wings for a cross to one man in the box marked by three. And that's about it for our attacking ideas.

 

The manager doesn't look as if he's got any particular idea how to resolve our goalscoring epidemic. Three games of Shane Long leading the line alone has been as fruitful as everyone would've predicted.

 

Pellegrino has had as soft an opening set of fixtures as he could've hoped for, and he's overseen a desperately poor start to the season - we needed these early points in the bag because Nov/Dec are going to yield very little. At this rate we're going to struggle to the halfway point of the season with less than 20 points - and less than 15 goals.

 

If you don't think we're in for a relegation fight, you haven't been paying attention.

[Avenue_Saint]

Well, at the very least today should be the last time Redmond starts for a while, and hopefully Pellegrino will see that we can play with Long and Gabbiadini at the same time, assuming one of them is on the wing (Long I think). Also would be nice to see Boufal get some starts now after he created our goal today... maybe even as number 10 in place of Davis? We should be strong enough in the middle against the poorer sides we have coming up with Lemina and Romeu behind Boufal.

 

So much this...

[CB Fry]

So we're basically better than the three newly promoted sides. Careful not to set expectations too high.

#fiveyearplan

[whelk]

Did anyone at all other than MP want Redmond to start over Gabbi? Driving me mental at mo

[whelk]

Stoke were proper sh1te tho. They won’t have felt they deserved that.

[OttawaSaint]

I’m normally positive and optimistic but these last few months have worn me down. Usually you can see what we’re trying to do and realize that it’ll come good with time. Not this time, we are in seriously deep ****. The only shining light has been Lemina. We need to do something drastic, and soon to right this ship. Remember when Koeman was having a terrible run, he changed the formation, brought in different players, youngsters hungry to succeed and we beat Everton and pushed on from there? We need some of that thinking right now. I like Redmond, but at the moment it’s not working, I like Tadic, but again he’s been way off what we know he can do since he bust his nose.

 

If we keep playing like this, we will have to rely on 3 teams being worse, that’s not a good way to be in this league.

[shurlock]

I couldn't watch the Utd game last week, but hear we were good in the second half. Can anyone explain what was different about that half? Was it a change in formation/personnel?

 

We seemed to mix it up a bit more against United as we were prepared to hit Long early.

 

But perhaps the biggest difference is the opposition formation - Stoke played 3 CBs/a back five as their wingbacks rarely went forward. It made it very easy for them to snuff out the often isolated front man. Only later in the game did we push more bodies forward to engage them. Should have happened earlier as we had control in the middle of the park.

[derry]

The manager just doesn't make any sense. Whilst rotating three non scorers behind one striker he says more strikers won't score more goals, if he believes that why are we seeing two and three strikers on to try and rescue a game.

 

Madness is doing the same thing time after time and expecting a different result. Long works hard and did flick on a good ball to Yoshida for a spectacular goal. Would any of the so called forwards have scored that, no fear of that. Time to go with Long, Gabbiadini and Austin and go 4-3-3.

[CB Fry]

Did anyone at all other than MP want Redmond to start over Gabbi? Driving me mental at mo

How he has become the only undroppable outfield player in the squad beggars belief.

[ally_uk]

I think we are in serious trouble and have gone backwards. Shane Long as a lone striker? Come on now get in the real world. Playing two up doesn't work? Next game prove your point get Gabba and Austin up top and see what happens. Can't be any worse than the shower of s##t currently being showcased...... Redmond is toilet! Everyone has been saying this since last season he offers nothing....

[striker]

The manager just doesn't make any sense. Whilst rotating three non scorers behind one striker he says more strikers won't score more goals, if he believes that why are we seeing two and three strikers on to try and rescue a game.

 

Madness is doing the same thing time after time and expecting a different result. Long works hard and did flick on a good ball to Yoshida for a spectacular goal. Would any of the so called forwards have scored that, no fear of that. Time to go with Long, Gabbiadini and Austin and go 4-3-3.

 

+1. Our setup rely's on guys like Redmond and Tadic scoring, instead of Gabbi, Austin, and Long. I know who I would rather have out there. If we don't score we can't win.

[hypochondriac]

Could you imagine a couple of seasons ago if we had long as our lone striker and the first choice midfield that we have now? Shows how far we have fallen.

[bazza]

It was gash for the most part, I can't believe the manager hasn't learned from recent games. If we don't win the next couple of home games he's going to be under some serious pressure.

[hasper57saint]

Even if we had four up front playing crab football doesn't lead to goals.

1. Drop Redmond and Put Tadic on the bench

2. Start Gabbi and Long

3. Try shooting rather than passing the ball into the net

Don't give up hope we really do have some quite capable players.

[Wes Tender]

Looks like we will have to rely on our defenders and midfielders to score goals for us this season, as we aren't going to get many from our strikers.

 

It is patently obvious that playing Long as the sole striker is not the answer. I can understand that MP took off Davis, as although I love his full blooded commitment, Long has that too. Neither of them are goal scorers, so why not have Long on instead of Davis purely because of his pace and his nuisance value? That allows an extra striker up front. I would go further and take off Redmond for Gabbiadini, so that would allow Austin to play up front. Now that Van Dijk is back, I don't see why we shouldn't play 3-5-2, using Bertrand and Cedric as wing backs.

 

Something has to change, and quickly. As the match commentators said, we are good at the pretty tippy, tappy passing, but lack the ability to get the ball to the striker/s in the final third. We are too slow in our build-up, don't break in sufficient numbers to stretch a defence, and don't have the confidence to shoot often enough.

 

There have been a succession of what might have been deemed to be "easier" matches that we have played, and we needed to be piling up the points. We gave ManUre a torrid game in the second half last week and ought to have had a real boost against a Stoke side which had suffered several injuries to deplete their squad. We needed the win to lift our confidence for when we play the top teams soon, but we could well go into those games in a state of trepidation and a tonking would have us dropping our heads.

 

Bloody typical that the winning goal just had to scored by Crouch. A pity that we don't have a striker like him, even at his age.

 

MP needs to make serious adjustments to start turning things around, or the clamour for him to go will get louder. Personally I don't have much faith in the system of having a lone striker up front, particularly Long. I don't rate Redmond, and I have always had my doubts about playing Boufal and Tadic together. Boufal looked lively when he came on, but Tadic hadn't been as good as he was last week, so why not a straight switch?

 

Had we played for much more of the game in the manner that we did for the last 10 minutes, we might have had a goal or two more scored by our defenders or midfielders.

[niceandfriendly]

Main thing is, though, MP's press conferences are more lively so it's not all bad.

 

True. Just a shame the football is as terrible as under the clown who preceded him.

[Manuel]

Every time the ball went up to Redmond / Long in the first half it was one-touched directly back to where it came. Neither seem capable of turning with the ball.

Thing is, players were making good runs but weren't being used, too ponderous. Can understand why Bertrand looks ****ed off.

[trousers]

My worry-ometer has gone up from "not overly concerned" to "slightly worried". My knee-jerk monitor hasn't registered any movement yet though.

 

I've said this before but Boufal needs a run of games. He's the one player in our squad that has the skills to unlock defences, but he's never going to reach peak performance levels with 30 minute cameo roles.

 

Good to have VvD back. Despite the defeat, his presence adds another dimension to the team.

 

Whilst our play in the attacking 3rd isn't good enough, that's the 2nd game on the trot where a draw wouldn't have been an unfair result, so I'm still a fair distance away from reaching "very concerned" on my worry-ometer.

 

For me, this should be the default starting 11 from next game onwards....

 

Forster

Bertrand

VvD

Hoedt or Yoshida

Cedric

Romeu

Lemina

Davis

Boufal

Tadic

Long or Gabbiadini

 

Redmond needs a stint on the bench.

 

I'm in two minds as to whether to stick with Davis in midfield or bench him so that we can play Long and Gabbi at the same time. Not sure.

Edited 30 September, 2017 by trousers

[Shroppie]

I haven't seen any of the game, but someone who was there suggested VVD didn't seem committed, Redmond was poor, Lemina seemed to have lost his confidence and, along with others, was bullied, the ref was weak and gave little protection. Right assessment?

 

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[austsaint]

I haven't seen any of the game, but someone who was there suggested VVD didn't seem committed, Redmond was poor, Lemina seemed to have lost his confidence and, along with others, was bullied, the ref was weak and gave little protection. Right assessment?

 

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Nope, Virgil was very good; Redmond was awful and Lemina, while nothing like as good as last week still played well.

[LGTL]

Dropping Hoedt was bizzare. We looked most threatening when our CB went up front in the last 5. We're playing an attacker who can't score goals, with redmond, tadic and davis behind who also can't score goals. Behind that we have lemina and Romeu who can't score. We don't create anything at all. And some spaz's clap it off.

[Dusic]

Just on the way back. Overall very poor. We are a decent side until the final third and then we are a bottom three side - absolutely clueless.

 

There is no shape in attack, no clear idea as to how we are trying to score goals. In particular:

 

- Long isn't good enough in the PL as a lone striker. His touch is terrible, he has no concept of linking play and he never scores

 

- Davis isn't a PL number 10. Today we improved hugely once he went off. Any defence facing a Long/Davis combo will feel comfortable.

 

- Redmond needs dropping. He just doesn't offer anything.

 

The midfield pass backwards because they don't have good options to pick out.

 

We haven't replaced Mane at all and to not sign any forward players after the season we had last season was an absolute cluster**** from Reed and Wilson. There was zero benefit in signing Bednarek, we needed a pacy attacker.

 

VVD showed his class. Excellent player as we know.

 

Overall - with our kind start a total of 18 points from the first 10 games would have been par, so we need to win the next 3 or its been a very poor start for Pellegrino I feel.

[striker]

Nope, Virgil was very good; Redmond was awful and Lemina, while nothing like as good as last week still played well.

 

Agreed. Redmond was poor, the rest were good.

[Sour Mash]

Same stuff as has been the case for a long time; our football all played in front of the opposition. Rarely get in and behind them, don't test the keeper.

 

Amazing that so many bother and still travel.

[Ohio Saint]

Yeah, I'm very worried about where our goals will come from in the future, but that could change in a blink of the eye if a couple of strikers hit form, other than that shower we have little to worry about.... And then I remembered back in the 70s when they never even published a league table until 5 games had been played!.....its way to early for me to pee the bed.

[shurlock]

My worry-o-meter has gone up from "not overly concerned" to "slightly worried". My knee-jerk monitor hasn't registered any movement yet though.

 

I've said this before but Boufal needs a run of games. He's the one player in our squad that has the skills to unlock defences, but he's never going to reach peak performance levels with 30 minute cameo roles.

 

Good to have VvD back, despite the defeat his presence adds another dimension to the team.

 

Whilst our play in the attacking 3rd isn't good enough, that's the 2nd game on the trot where a draw wouldn't have been an unfair result, so I'm still a fair distance away from reaching "very concerned" on my worry-o-meter.

 

For me, this should be the default starting 11 from next game onwards....

 

Forster

Bertrand

VvD

Hoedt or Yoshida

Cedric

Romeu

Lemina

Davis

Boufal

Tadic

Long or Gabbiadini

 

Redmond needs a stint on the bench.

 

I'm in two minds as to whether to stick with Davis in midfield or bench him so that we can play Long and Gabbi at the same time. Not sure.

 

Gallagher scored today - do you think it's time for a recall and for us to go 4-2-4 with Long, Austin, Gabbi and Gallagher up top?

[eelpie]

Behave. We've got a good team in the making, MP needs time. I really think a run of games with Boufal Tadic and Long behind Gabbi could do something special with THAT defence behind them.

 

We looked class for the last 15/20 mins. Didn't know where the attacks would be coming next from all of a sudden

 

Yet we had 70% possession overall and more shots attempted

So the result is more than poor.

 

MoPo's hopeful experiment with Long being preferred to Gabbi up front has dismally failed.

[trousers]

Gallagher scored today - do you think it's time for a recall and for us to go 4-2-4 with Long, Austin, Gabbi and Gallagher up top?

 

Almost. I'd recall both Seager and Gallagher immediately and go 4-1-5.....Long, Austin, Gabbi, Gallagher and Seager up top. Goals, goals, goals... mark my words

[whelk]

Yet we had 70% possession overall and more shots attempted

So the result is more than poor.

 

MoPo's hopeful experiment with Long being preferred to Gabbi up front has dismally failed.

 

Three times as many passes as Stoke. But we all know the one stat that matters...........XG. Await MOTD

[Shroppie]

Nope, Virgil was very good; Redmond was awful and Lemina, while nothing like as good as last week still played well.

Thanks.

 

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[larry12]

We're not in a relegation battle - we'll beat the teams worse than us, but I very much doubt a top half finish is on the cards. 13th is our level at the moment. Maybe scrape 10th if we have a good transfer window in January, and we do our business EARLY.

 

Duuhh. We just lost to Stoke who were below us. Duuuhhh!

[Shroppie]

Gallagher scored today - do you think it's time for a recall and for us to go 4-2-4 with Long, Austin, Gabbi and Gallagher up top?

Pretty sure we can't recall until January, if at all.

 

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[aintforever]

God knows why we stick to this 4-2-3-1 formation, we could play any combination of Tadic, Davis, Redmond, Boufal or JWP behind Long and we will never get enough goals.

 

It's just ****ing bonkers to have a team struggling for goals and having Gabbiadini and Austin on the Bench. We have a good selection of Centre backs, two good attacking full backs - 3-5-2 is the obvious formation.