Ease Up People.

[cellone]

Yesterday we put balls forward (I know it didn't work. Yet). We went into them in pairs (paid off when we got it right). *Neither have I seen in a long time and neither have the players. Things are changing and by tortious they need to.*

 

You can't ignore the weird We Can't Score thing, and it is weird because these players can do what it takes to get the ball off the opposition and shove it into the back of their goal. But this only happens when we click as a team which has been rare since RK fkd off. After the uncertainty through the summer we now have an unsettled team.

 

The truth is that we've had an unsettled team for almost a year and a half. They play as individuals, either having a good game or not. Oriel, Davis, Maya,Cédric and James are constants because they do look up, find others, and play in a team like fashion because it's their default setting.

 

It was the same for Bertrand but he's been ground down along with Long and Tadic. These are all key players when we win.

 

Redmond, Boufal, Gabby and Højbjerg still look like new players that need to understand the way the team plays but there isn't one.*

 

Pelligrino has to build a successful team with this and it's no small task. Four, five or six games won't sort that out. We are trying to create an entire team not integrate one or two players.

 

And as for those already losing their ish at the beginning of September, ease up and watch the development between here and November.*

 

There will be some poor results but I bet something of Alp's or Goat's that we start slowly getting our **** together. X

 

 

 

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[DuncanRG]

We've made two major signings, so we really are trying to integrate one or two players. Talk of relegation battles or sacking the manager is obviously demented, but the signs aren't great right now and it's no use pretending otherwise. We may improve or may not.

[Lord Duckhunter]

With all due respect half of what the OP has written is nonsense. The worrying thing for me is the bit he's got right. There appears to be absolutely no structure or pattern to our play. What are we being coached to play. It just looks like we're told the formation & then players go out and play. With defensive systems or a long ball side , you can see that they're trying to play like that, even if it doesn't work, same with pressing or Counter attacking. What exactly is the bloke trying to do, it's not obvious to anyone.

 

The players were clearly coached last year, we had a way Claude wanted to play, obviously people didn't like it, but it wasn't the tactical mess it has been this season, boring maybe, but not a mess. Look at OR, he clearly knew his role, clearly been coached and was fantastic. This season he's all over the shop, not appearing to know his exact specific role. JWP the same, played out wide most games, clear in his role. We played little triangles & you could see we were trying ( though often failing ) to manufacture an overload down the flanks. Even Austin was clearly given instructions & followed them. Look at the number of times he was the guy getting back to support the full back , people were constantly moaning about him tracking back, but that's not my point. My point is, when they got the ball he did what he was coached to do. This season I've haven't seen any of signs of them being coached & it's worrying. I don't think Koeman was a particularly good coach, but we had Mane & Pelle. Lump it to Pelle was a bit of a get out for us, we haven't got that now.

 

I wouldn't call for the mangers head as I'm not that ****ing stupid, but I've been distinctly unimpressed so far. Not particularly with the results , although they've been disappointing, but with what we're trying to do. We are not good enough to say "here's our 11" and pay no attention to tactics and no attempt to adjust to the opposition. Maybe the attention to detail and the over coaching last season contributed to the players alleged dissatisfaction with Puel, but left alone to just get on with it , or work it out themselves appears even worse. I maybe wrong and he maybe working damn hard on it and suddenly it comes together. But nobody can seriously say they know what style or tactics we're trying to implement.

 

 

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Edited 11 September, 2017 by Lord Duckhunter

[James]

With all due respect half of what the OP has written is nonsense. The worrying thing for me is the bit he's got right. There appears to be absolutely no structure or pattern to our play. What are we being coached to play. It just looks like we're told the formation & then players go out and play. With defensive systems or a long ball side , you can see that they're trying to play like that, even if it doesn't work, same with pressing or Counter attacking. What exactly is the bloke trying to do, it's not obvious to anyone.

 

The players were clearly coached last year, we had a way Claude wanted to play, obviously people didn't like it, but it wasn't the tactical mess it has been this season, boring maybe, but not a mess. Look at OR, he clearly knew his role, clearly been coached and was fantastic. This season he's all over the shop, not appearing to know his exact specific role. JWP the same, played out wide most games, clear in his role. We played little triangles & you could see we were trying ( though often failing ) to manufacture an overload down the flanks. Even Austin was clearly given instructions & followed them. Look at the number of times he was the guy getting back to support the full back , people were constantly moaning about him tracking back, but that's not my point. My point is, when they got the ball he did what he was coached to do. This season I've haven't seen any of signs of them being coached & it's worrying. I don't think Koeman was a particularly good coach, but we had Mane & Pelle. Lump it to Pelle was a bit of a get out for us, we haven't got that now.

 

I wouldn't call for the mangers head as I'm not that ****ing stupid, but I've been distinctly unimpressed so far. Not particularly with the results , although they've been disappointing, but with what we're trying to do. We are not good enough to say "here's our 11" and pay no attention to tactics and no attempt to adjust to the opposition. Maybe the attention to detail and the over coaching last season contributed to the players alleged dissatisfaction with Puel, but left alone to just get on with it , or work it out themselves appears even worse. I maybe wrong and he maybe working damn hard on it and suddenly it comes together. But nobody can seriously say they know what style or tactics we're trying to implement.

 

 

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You make a good point here re style and approach. After the Swansea game I came away feeling positive and saw some good pressing to win the ball high up the pitch. Was disappointed by the result but we battered them and should have won comfortably. Same against West Ham, UNTIL we let them back in. Since then, against Wolves, Hudds and Watford we've been all over the place.

 

What worries me is that our "positive" performances have come against teams that are quite clearly absolute ****e and we couldn't even take maximum points from those. MP needs to roll us back to how we started off against Swansea and stick to it for a while.

 

The most worrying thing for me is that MP hasn't yet shown he can change a game for the better during play. Against Watford it was clear we needed more muscle in midfield as we were getting overrun. So what does he do? Bring on Tadic...

 

Also, he appears to be hell bent on subbing Gabbi in every game, in a similar vein to Puel, unless there's an underlying fitness issue I don't understand that at all.

[Dalek2003]

We've made two major signings, so we really are trying to integrate one or two players. Talk of relegation battles or sacking the manager is obviously demented, but the signs aren't great right now and it's no use pretending otherwise. We may improve or may not.

 

Agreed, but complacency is the biggest enemy.

[Give it to Ron]

With all due respect half of what the OP has written is nonsense. The worrying thing for me is the bit he's got right. There appears to be absolutely no structure or pattern to our play. What are we being coached to play. It just looks like we're told the formation & then players go out and play. With defensive systems or a long ball side , you can see that they're trying to play like that, even if it doesn't work, same with pressing or Counter attacking. What exactly is the bloke trying to do, it's not obvious to anyone.

 

The players were clearly coached last year, we had a way Claude wanted to play, obviously people didn't like it, but it wasn't the tactical mess it has been this season, boring maybe, but not a mess. Look at OR, he clearly knew his role, clearly been coached and was fantastic. This season he's all over the shop, not appearing to know his exact specific role. JWP the same, played out wide most games, clear in his role. We played little triangles & you could see we were trying ( though often failing ) to manufacture an overload down the flanks. Even Austin was clearly given instructions & followed them. Look at the number of times he was the guy getting back to support the full back , people were constantly moaning about him tracking back, but that's not my point. My point is, when they got the ball he did what he was coached to do. This season I've haven't seen any of signs of them being coached & it's worrying. I don't think Koeman was a particularly good coach, but we had Mane & Pelle. Lump it to Pelle was a bit of a get out for us, we haven't got that now.

 

I wouldn't call for the mangers head as I'm not that ****ing stupid, but I've been distinctly unimpressed so far. Not particularly with the results , although they've been disappointing, but with what we're trying to do. We are not good enough to say "here's our 11" and pay no attention to tactics and no attempt to adjust to the opposition. Maybe the attention to detail and the over coaching last season contributed to the players alleged dissatisfaction with Puel, but left alone to just get on with it , or work it out themselves appears even worse. I maybe wrong and he maybe working damn hard on it and suddenly it comes together. But nobody can seriously say they know what style or tactics we're trying to implement.

 

 

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I always thought Erwin was the brains behind Ronald - Kluitenberg certainly had them fitter than appears we have now.

I didn't moan about Austin tracking back...what was abysmal was seeing him chase a full back when he was played wide left he was running in treacle!

I listened to Whispering Dave on Solent going home and he said exactly your last bit - we have no identity, don't press, no direction, slow build up - weak midfield.

Puel has gone get over it he aint coming back - had he done what his bosses wanted maybe would still be here but we are stuck with Pellegrino lets just hope he can turn this around - worried from what I have seen so far.

On paper our defence and midfield with Lemina/Romeu is decent - its going forward again we need to be constructive and radical like playing 2 up.

[tajjuk]

I'm wondering whether Pellegrino is stuck in Alaves mode, he managed a team last year that really had no business being 8th and did it by not working out a way of playing but really by adapting his team to exploit the weaknesses of the opposition and stopping them play.

 

Whereas we are as a club expected to beat half the premiership if not more, especially at home, and I'm not sure this expectation to win and break down teams is something he is used to.

[brett24]

All he has to do is play two strikers, need to start Austin he is a goal machine. I would play Forster, Cedric, VVD, Yoshida, Stephens, Bertrand, Romeu, Lemina, Davis, Austin and Gabbi. 3-5-2.

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

All he has to do is play two strikers, need to start Austin he is a goal machine. I would play Forster, Cedric, VVD, Yoshida, Stephens, Bertrand, Romeu, Lemina, Davis, Austin and Gabbi. 3-5-2.

Not sure it's as simple as that. We are not creating anything so playing Austin will be fruitless until we resolve issue with the link between midfield and attack.

 

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[Sour Mash]

All he has to do is play two strikers, need to start Austin he is a goal machine. I would play Forster, Cedric, VVD, Yoshida, Stephens, Bertrand, Romeu, Lemina, Davis, Austin and Gabbi. 3-5-2.

 

How many clubs play two strikers up front?

 

How do you think playing Gabbiadini and Austin would solve our problem of not creating any chances?

[70's Mike]

Not sure it's as simple as that. We are not creating anything so playing Austin will be fruitless until we resolve issue with the link between midfield and attack.

 

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until we realize that most goals are scored in the box and start putting the ball into it, rather than tracking back from near the corner flag to play it square across the back then go up the other wing, don't cross, and track back again, we are just going to get worst.

I would rather see Long chasing lost causes than the current technical play which produces nothing

[Toomer]

until we realize that most goals are scored in the box and start putting the ball into it, rather than tracking back from near the corner flag to play it square across the back then go up the other wing, don't cross, and track back again, we are just going to get worst.

I would rather see Long chasing lost causes than the current technical play which produces nothing

 

Long was the only one that chased down when he came on.

[aintforever]

We've made two major signings, so we really are trying to integrate one or two players. Talk of relegation battles or sacking the manager is obviously demented, but the signs aren't great right now and it's no use pretending otherwise. We may improve or may not.

 

Think that's a bit arrogant to be honest - remember similar comments the last time we went down. Teams with better players than ours have got relegated before.

[brett24]

How many clubs play two strikers up front?

 

How do you think playing Gabbiadini and Austin would solve our problem of not creating any chances?

 

Tadic and Boufal are not on it at the moment, therefore I would rather have two players who can score with half chances. Austin is a threat from set pieces also, he can hold it up also and bring people into play. Wasn't Austin our top scorer last season?

[Give it to Ron]

How many clubs play two strikers up front?

 

How do you think playing Gabbiadini and Austin would solve our problem of not creating any chances?

City do..but frankly I don't give a damn what others do have they failed to score in 9 out of 12 or whatever it is?

Dont you think it would help our midfield have another in front instead of going backwards?

 

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[doddisalegend]

All he has to do is play two strikers, need to start Austin he is a goal machine. I would play Forster, Cedric, VVD, Yoshida, Stephens, Bertrand, Romeu, Lemina, Davis, Austin and Gabbi. 3-5-2.

 

our problem against Watford was that we lost the battle in midfield hence no supply to the attack playing two upfront would have seen us even more outgunned in the middle of the park and even less like to create scoring oppurtunites.

[hypochondriac]

We always get these types of threads after a slump. Only a fool would fail to heed the warning signs. We've looked uninspired and lethargic all year, we have a dire lack of goals and a keeper in poor form with a very average midfield. It's asking for trouble and at the moment it's only put decent defence that will get us points.

[Give it to Ron]

our problem against Watford was that we lost the battle in midfield hence no supply to the attack playing two upfront would have seen us even more outgunned in the middle of the park and even less like to create scoring oppurtunites.

Why would it? Look at the difference Long made, if we had Gabbi as well turning them

Working as a pair rather than the ball just coming back as Gabbi on his own is never going to work at home.

Of course Davis and JWP dont work Lemina should have started fit enough for the bench but cant see how Long and Gabbi could have been any worse than the first half.

ONE shot in 92nd minute from the right back how could that be worse?

 

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[tajjuk]

How many clubs play two strikers up front?

 

 

Burnley and Man City off the top my head. West Ham are tonight.

 

It depends, if you have very mobile and talented interchangable players that run at people like Mane, Salah, Rashford, Hazard etc. then those wide forwards or whatever you call them will get enough support to your lone striker.

 

Our wingers/wide forwards are not doing that, and only Redmond is quick, Tadic and Boufal are technically good and can dribble at people but they lack pace, and then all we have is JWP or Davis who are not suited to that at all, they are midfield passers who link play and get the odd goal but aren't going to beat a man or burst down the wing.

 

It is becoming clear that we lack the right striker to play long up top and we lack the pace and directness on the wide areas to support that lone striker.

[ally_uk]

Pellgrino needs to watch how we played under Poch and try and emulate the key components of that system. Including the fitnesd element and souble training sessions.

 

Get on the phone to Poch pronto and get some tips son.

[Saint in Paradise]

Not just in this thread but in one or two others, if I remember correctly, people have said how much

fitter the players seemed in the past. They then tend to blame the coaches for this rather than the

players. Well to me I find it almost impossible to believe that these players don't have enough personal

or professional pride to get themselves fitter. They must know their condition is not good enough so it's

about time they did something about it themselves, or do they want a pay increase to help them?

 

The ordinary bloke playing in a pub team can soon realise when something isn't working and will try to

alter things during the game so how come these full time "professionals" won't try something themselves?

Are they so mollycoddled ( stupid even? ) that they have to be told that they can breathe air?

 

.

[Professor]

People are bound to be anxious after losing a game that should have been winnable and still faced with the goal drought. As fans, we must put our faith in the coaching staff being able to identify what is going wrong, or what is not going right. We have plenty of quality in the squad so inevitably, fans are going to wonder about selections, formations and tactics. The first 4 league games doesn't tell the whole story because the defeat against Wolves in the EFL has to be put into the mix giving us a record so far of P5, W1 D2, L2. Although that isn't great, it's far too early to panic and a couple of decent results would soon change the picture. The suggestion in the Opening Post makes good sense. Far too soon for fans to begin behaving like Corporal Jones.

[Forester]

With all due respect half of what the OP has written is nonsense. The worrying thing for me is the bit he's got right. There appears to be absolutely no structure or pattern to our play. What are we being coached to play. It just looks like we're told the formation & then players go out and play. With defensive systems or a long ball side , you can see that they're trying to play like that, even if it doesn't work, same with pressing or Counter attacking. What exactly is the bloke trying to do, it's not obvious to anyone.

 

The players were clearly coached last year, we had a way Claude wanted to play, obviously people didn't like it, but it wasn't the tactical mess it has been this season, boring maybe, but not a mess. Look at OR, he clearly knew his role, clearly been coached and was fantastic. This season he's all over the shop, not appearing to know his exact specific role. JWP the same, played out wide most games, clear in his role. We played little triangles & you could see we were trying ( though often failing ) to manufacture an overload down the flanks. Even Austin was clearly given instructions & followed them. Look at the number of times he was the guy getting back to support the full back , people were constantly moaning about him tracking back, but that's not my point. My point is, when they got the ball he did what he was coached to do. This season I've haven't seen any of signs of them being coached & it's worrying. I don't think Koeman was a particularly good coach, but we had Mane & Pelle. Lump it to Pelle was a bit of a get out for us, we haven't got that now.

 

I wouldn't call for the mangers head as I'm not that ****ing stupid, but I've been distinctly unimpressed so far. Not particularly with the results , although they've been disappointing, but with what we're trying to do. We are not good enough to say "here's our 11" and pay no attention to tactics and no attempt to adjust to the opposition. Maybe the attention to detail and the over coaching last season contributed to the players alleged dissatisfaction with Puel, but left alone to just get on with it , or work it out themselves appears even worse. I maybe wrong and he maybe working damn hard on it and suddenly it comes together. But nobody can seriously say they know what style or tactics we're trying to implement.

 

 

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This perfectly sums up my opinion too

[Simon3737]

My hope is based on one of Pellegrino's interviews where he said he wanted to change things gradually. Maybe we're in transition from Puel's style to his.

 

FWIW, I think he's being too slow to change things, but going 'full De Boer' clearly doesn't work! (not in 4 games anyway).

 

I'm hoping this transitional mess is just a phase. Having said that, if he picks the same 11 again at Palace, the same tactics and we don't score again, my patience might run out!

[Cabrone]

People are bound to be anxious after losing a game that should have been winnable and still faced with the goal drought. As fans, we must put our faith in the coaching staff being able to identify what is going wrong, or what is not going right. We have plenty of quality in the squad so inevitably, fans are going to wonder about selections, formations and tactics. The first 4 league games doesn't tell the whole story because the defeat against Wolves in the EFL has to be put into the mix giving us a record so far of P5, W1 D2, L2. Although that isn't great, it's far too early to panic and a couple of decent results would soon change the picture. The suggestion in the Opening Post makes good sense. Far too soon for fans to begin behaving like Corporal Jones.

 

We've scored 1 goal from open play in the last 10 home games, that's a serious issue. Whilst most of us are giving MP some slack because he inherited this situation he's got to make some serious changes. If he sticks to 1 up front I don't think things will change, we'll be staring down the barrel and he'll be gone by Christmas.

 

Time to break free of his comfort zone, play our 2 best goalscorers up front, dump the underperformers, instruct the mid to quit the tippy tappy stuff, get more direct and give them time to gel together.

 

A few goals from Charlie and Gabbi would do wonder for confidence and tails would be up. They are not a bad set of players and should be good enough for a mid table finish but current tactics - which don't seem to have changed much from last season - are strangling us. A pair of balls are required.

[Super_Uwe]

We've scored 1 goal from open play in the last 10 home games, that's a serious issue. Whilst most of us are giving MP some slack because he inherited this situation he's got to make some serious changes. If he sticks to 1 up front I don't think things will change, we'll be staring down the barrel and he'll be gone by Christmas.

 

Time to break free of his comfort zone, play our 2 best goalscorers up front, dump the underperformers, instruct the mid to quit the tippy tappy stuff, get more direct and give them time to gel together.

 

A few goals from Charlie and Gabbi would do wonder for confidence and tails would be up. They are not a bad set of players and should be good enough for a mid table finish but current tactics - which don't seem to have changed much from last season - are strangling us. A pair of balls are required.

 

I agree with your comment about focusing on Austin and Gabbiadini, they are the two players who we know will score goals if they are given the chance. That's what we need right now, more than anything else. Once we get our mojo back in front of goal I think/hope(!) everything else will start falling into place.

[Disco Stu]

He's perhaps a little too laid back (solely judging by his interviews). He didn't seem angry enough after our last performance and even seemed to play it off as simply 'that's football'. It's been a recurring issue for us for a while now. He can't always be the nice guy and everyone's friend.

Edited 12 September, 2017 by Disco Stu

[cellone]

With all due respect half of what the OP has written is nonsense. The worrying thing for me is the bit he's got right. There appears to be absolutely no structure or pattern to our play. What are we being coached to play. It just looks like we're told the formation & then players go out and play. With defensive systems or a long ball side , you can see that they're trying to play like that, even if it doesn't work, same with pressing or Counter attacking. What exactly is the bloke trying to do, it's not obvious to anyone.

 

The players were clearly coached last year, we had a way Claude wanted to play, obviously people didn't like it, but it wasn't the tactical mess it has been this season, boring maybe, but not a mess. Look at OR, he clearly knew his role, clearly been coached and was fantastic. This season he's all over the shop, not appearing to know his exact specific role. JWP the same, played out wide most games, clear in his role. We played little triangles & you could see we were trying ( though often failing ) to manufacture an overload down the flanks. Even Austin was clearly given instructions & followed them. Look at the number of times he was the guy getting back to support the full back , people were constantly moaning about him tracking back, but that's not my point. My point is, when they got the ball he did what he was coached to do. This season I've haven't seen any of signs of them being coached & it's worrying. I don't think Koeman was a particularly good coach, but we had Mane & Pelle. Lump it to Pelle was a bit of a get out for us, we haven't got that now.

 

I wouldn't call for the mangers head as I'm not that ****ing stupid, but I've been distinctly unimpressed so far. Not particularly with the results , although they've been disappointing, but with what we're trying to do. We are not good enough to say "here's our 11" and pay no attention to tactics and no attempt to adjust to the opposition. Maybe the attention to detail and the over coaching last season contributed to the players alleged dissatisfaction with Puel, but left alone to just get on with it , or work it out themselves appears even worse. I maybe wrong and he maybe working damn hard on it and suddenly it comes together. But nobody can seriously say they know what style or tactics we're trying to implement.

 

 

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Thanks for your reply. Please point out the half that is apparently nonsense. If you infact mean all of what I have written with the exception of the scoring issue then you are extremely rude and arrogant. Oh wait you are an extremely rude and arrogant poster, some might say the kind of **** that likes calling into Germy Vine to declare people naive, or ill informed because they disagree yet are too small minded to explain why so just use so called acceptable veiled insults like your first sentence.

 

St Chalet please lock this thread or blend with one of the other panicky negative threads as was taken off topic from reply one. Shame as I was just trying to add some light to a board full of gloom.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Thanks for your reply. Please point out the half that is apparently nonsense. If you infact mean all of what I have written with the exception of the scoring issue then you are extremely rude and arrogant. Oh wait you are an extremely rude and arrogant poster, some might say the kind of **** that likes calling into Germy Vine to declare people naive, or ill informed because they disagree yet are too small minded to explain why so just use so called acceptable veiled insults like your first sentence.

 

St Chalet please lock this thread or blend with one of the other panicky negative threads as was taken off topic from reply one. Shame as I was just trying to add some light to a board full of gloom.

 

Calm down.

 

 

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[cellone]

You lazy git. I had to wait ages to post that. The least you could do is tell me what I've got right or wrong! I'm quite chuffed that half of the post isn't nonsense. Pull your finger out Lord Duckhunter.

[9-3]

Would Boufal, Tadic, Davis even Redmond get in another Premiership team at the moment?

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Would Boufal, Tadic, Davis even Redmond get in another Premiership team at the moment?

 

Is this an ask the manager type question?

 

Or about rugby

[DuncanRG]

Would Boufal, Tadic, Davis even Redmond get in another Premiership team at the moment?

 

This is a highlight of the post-Watford madness

[GGalpin]

Would Boufal, Tadic, Davis even Redmond get in another Premiership team at the moment?

 

Valid point. None of them are remotely strong enough for the Premiership, although I suppose Redmond would make a decent winger due to his pace. As the Worcester Warriors and Leicester Tigers are bottom of the Premiership perhaps they could do with him.

 

 

In terms of the Premier League, what the English top flight in terms of football has been called for the past ten years, I'd think all four would get in the majority of the teams outside the top six.

[sadoldgit]

Would Boufal, Tadic, Davis even Redmond get in another Premiership team at the moment?

 

Yes.

[shurlock]

Would Boufal, Tadic, Davis even Redmond get in another Premiership team at the moment?

 

Let's not forget that Redmond regularly warmed the bench for a side that was relegated.

[Lets B Avenue]

Let's not forget that Redmond regularly warmed the bench for a side that was relegated.

 

What? In a John Westwood stylee?