Goalscoring Problem - what can we do?

[Donatello]

If we're failing to transition from midfield to the strikers, why would adding Austin solve that? Neither him or Gabby hold the ball up. JRod would've. Long can, to a certain extent. Long/Austin or Long/Gabbi makes much more sense in addressing the ball retention issue up front (imo).

[Saint86]

If we want to solve our goal scoring problem, I really don't see the point of playing Long. We need a finisher, and especially one who can score from all the high crosses we lob in, which was our main tactic under Puel and continues to be so under Pellegrino.

 

You say that, but we make next to know clear chances.

[verlaine1979]

People STILL thinking Davis should be in the starting XI

 

 

One of the great mysteries of Saintsweb. He could spend the entire 90 minutes squeezing out a dump on the centre circle, and 90% of post-game comments would insist that he'd been one of our better players.

[derry]

One of the great mysteries of Saintsweb. He could spend the entire 90 minutes squeezing out a dump on the centre circle, and 90% of post-game comments would insist that he'd been one of our better players.

 

So that's what he was doing.

[Saint IQ]

Play Van Strike up front.

[Saint_clark]

https://www.buildlineup.com/shared/59b5b7248dd5dd25d4d2271b

 

With Tadic/Boufal further forward...this would aid us defensively, get our fullbacks further forward to aid with lack of pace in attack and solve our problem of Gabbiadini being isolated with Austin there to hold the ball up, link up with him and score a fair few himself.

[Saint Fan CaM]

We need to make a change to the general pattern of play...every team in the Prem knows EXACTLY how we will set-up the team and play, irrespective of the players on the pitch. It is pointless putting Gabbi up front with Austin - they are too similar in style...i.e. they are both box poachers...NOT ceators. I would play either Redmond or Boufal up front with Gabbi. This then provides an 'extra' place for a midfield provider, but therein lies the problem because JWP and Davis are not good enough. Tadic can do the job, but where - central? Certainly not Long...he is worth nothing more than a bench space to run at tired legs in the last 10 mins. Fact is this squad is not built to deliver the quality of football aspired to...the coaches don't know how to adapt and in doing so they are removing all the maverick/inspirational/creative aspects of our best players (e.g. Gabbi, Boufal and Redmond).

 

In summary it's a deep seated and very difficult problem we're faced with. Personally I fear for our season based on the evidence not of one game but the trend in a number key performance indicators over the last 24 months.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

The new manager is going to have to grow some balls and ditch the Puel template. A good start would be studying the other 19 teams in the Premier League as they all seem to be capable of creating chances. Well, maybe not Palace.

[Batman]

The new manager is going to have to grow some balls and ditch the Puel template. A good start would be studying the other 19 teams in the Premier League as they all seem to be capable of creating chances. Well, maybe not Palace.

 

palace created a f-load against burnley and missed a few sitters........for once

[Redslo]

I would play VVD up front with Gabbi why oh why does he persist in playing one up it doesn't work.

 

I was also thinking this. In fact, I have often thought that we should convert him to an attacking players so we could sell him for 200 million pounds next summer.

[Antrimsaint]

One of the great mysteries of Saintsweb. He could spend the entire 90 minutes squeezing out a dump on the centre circle, and 90% of post-game comments would insist that he'd been one of our better players.

Dear God help this man. He ****ged your missus didn't he?

[bazza]

Dear God help this man. He ****ged your missus didn't he?

 

It's best just to ignore his bull****.

[doddisalegend]

The new manager is going to have to grow some balls and ditch the Puel template. A good start would be studying the other 19 teams in the Premier League as they all seem to be capable of creating chances. Well, maybe not Palace.

 

Watford was a bad game for chances and we do have games like that (hull last season) more often than not though we create enough chances (Swansea being a prime example) to score but **** up the actual putting it in the back of the net bit.

[Roo1976]

brilliantly put would have to say your right with most points but as fickle fans how long do you give your plan before us know it all want it all fans cry foul?

[eddie]

One of the great mysteries of Saintsweb. He could spend the entire 90 minutes squeezing out a dump on the centre circle, and 90% of post-game comments would insist that he'd been one of our better players.

 

Harsh. I repeat what I've said before: Davis is not the fittest, fastest, most defensive or most creative player that we have in our midfield.

 

However, what he does do is the EXACT thing we are missing. He links play through the middle of the park.

There are very few players in our squad who will successfully do short 1-2 passes with the defense or with the defensive midfield, and then find a good pass forward.

Too often we either play out to the wings, and expect Cedric/Tadic or Bertrand/Redmond to do some magic OR we hook it long to Gabbiadini or someone else and expect them to find space.

 

Very few players play along the ground passes through the middle of the park and it's EXACTLY what Davis is great for. We sorely miss creativity in the #10 role, but at least Davis makes an effort to play the ball there.

 

I don't say he's a strong player, but for me, until we have another player like him, he should be playing. Hojbjerg does short passes, but never comes forward and loses the ball all the ****ing time. Redmond and Tadic either don't come back very often, or choose the more complicated pass which doesn't always come off.

[derry]

Anybody mentioning any of Boufal, Redmond, JWP, Davis, Redmond and Tadic as a solution to our lack of goals is missing the point. They might each get an odd goal during the season from play but they won't score enough often enough. Only Austin and Gabbiadini have the ability to score enough goals and Long is the only player we have despite his very average one goal every five games that has the strength, pace and energy to rattle defences enough to get the best out of the other two.

 

The manager was waffling away on Saturday but mentioned 'The Striker'. Jesus wept if he cant see the problem of one striker isolated by any combination of three or four of the six he is a basket case. He needs to get it sorted and quick. Supporters won't be half as patient this year having put up with the previous season with it's magnificent 46 points albeit with a losing cup final appearance, a cup we are already out of, knocked out by a Championship reserve team.

Edited 11 September, 2017 by derry

[SaintMB]

Harsh. I repeat what I've said before: Davis is not the fittest, fastest, most defensive or most creative player that we have in our midfield.

 

However, what he does do is the EXACT thing we are missing. He links play through the middle of the park.

There are very few players in our squad who will successfully do short 1-2 passes with the defense or with the defensive midfield, and then find a good pass forward.

Too often we either play out to the wings, and expect Cedric/Tadic or Bertrand/Redmond to do some magic OR we hook it long to Gabbiadini or someone else and expect them to find space.

 

Very few players play along the ground passes through the middle of the park and it's EXACTLY what Davis is great for. We sorely miss creativity in the #10 role, but at least Davis makes an effort to play the ball there.

 

I don't say he's a strong player, but for me, until we have another player like him, he should be playing. Hojbjerg does short passes, but never comes forward and loses the ball all the ****ing time. Redmond and Tadic either don't come back very often, or choose the more complicated pass which doesn't always come off.

 

I like Davis and think he still has a part to play, but surely he can't be doing what we're missing, since he's playing and we're still missing whatever it is that we're missing..

[John Boy Saint]

Harsh. I repeat what I've said before: Davis is not the fittest, fastest, most defensive or most creative player that we have in our midfield.

 

However, what he does do is the EXACT thing we are missing. He links play through the middle of the park.

There are very few players in our squad who will successfully do short 1-2 passes with the defense or with the defensive midfield, and then find a good pass forward.

Too often we either play out to the wings, and expect Cedric/Tadic or Bertrand/Redmond to do some magic OR we hook it long to Gabbiadini or someone else and expect them to find space.

 

Very few players play along the ground passes through the middle of the park and it's EXACTLY what Davis is great for. We sorely miss creativity in the #10 role, but at least Davis makes an effort to play the ball there.

 

I don't say he's a strong player, but for me, until we have another player like him, he should be playing. Hojbjerg does short passes, but never comes forward and loses the ball all the ****ing time. Redmond and Tadic either don't come back very often, or choose the more complicated pass which doesn't always come off.

I will add to that the observation made in the Huddersfield game, Davis has anticipation, a moment in the game Saturday he snuffed out a potentially dangerous forward Watford pass, a voice behind behind me said "great anticipation" and those in the crowd who saw it too gave a smattering of applause. Back at the Huddersfield game; by comparison Redmond has reaction the only trouble is his reaction is made 10yrds away from where it should be!

 

Something again that stood out from Saturday as a team we have fallen into a nasty habit of waiting for the ball to come to us, instead of going to meet the ball, resulting in the oppo player tossing a coin and going after the ball and invariably them getting Heads yet again........ Saints player is then only seeing their tails.

[eddie]

I like Davis and think he still has a part to play, but surely he can't be doing what we're missing, since he's playing and we're still missing whatever it is that we're missing..

 

I mean that he's the only one who does that. When he's in the team and NOT PLAYING AS A DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER then he plays that role well. Effectively, a 2-1 in midfield with Lemina and Romeu behind him. Frees him of defensive duties and enables him to play in the pocket between midfield and attack.

[verlaine1979]

I like Davis and think he still has a part to play, but surely he can't be doing what we're missing, since he's playing and we're still missing whatever it is that we're missing..

 

Another one of the mysteries. He's like God to some posters on here - responsible for anything good that happens, but completely immune from blame when things are bad. The problem is, the description of him as playing nippy one-twos and always looking for a forward pass is a complete fabrication. He's the key culprit in our slow midfield transition and tendency to shovel it out wide for lack of a better or braver idea.

[angelman]

Could you play Tadic & Boufal on the wings (swapping over as they like to do) with Redmond in the Nº10 role rather than keeping him on the wing? He seems to be able to run at players better than anyone else, apart from maybe Boufal, but unlike Boufal tends to keep the ball longer.

[Dusic]

Anybody mentioning any of Boufal, Redmond, JWP, Davis, Redmond and Tadic as a solution to our lack of goals is missing the point. They might each get an odd goal during the season from play but they won't score enough often enough. Only Austin and Gabbiadini have the ability to score enough goals and Long is the only player we have despite his very average one goal every five games that has the strength, pace and energy to rattle defences enough to get the best out of the other two.

 

The manager was waffling away on Saturday but mentioned 'The Striker'. Jesus wept if he cant see the problem of one striker isolated by any combination of three or four of the six he is a basket case. He needs to get it sorted and quick. Supporters won't be half as patient this year having put up with the previous season with it's magnificent 46 points albeit with a losing cup final appearance, a cup we are already out of, knocked out by a Championship reserve team.

So basically we can't select any of our midfielders?

 

That obviously won't work (or be what happens).

 

The personnel is what it is. They are mostly good players, we need to find a way of getting the best out of them.

 

I can guarentee the number of PL games this season when none of Tadic, Redmond, Boufal or Davis start will be zero.

[mrfahaji]

I mentioned during the game on Saturday that I think it is a myth that Nathan Redmond has lots of pace. I could be wrong, but while he clearly has quick feet, and is fast enough to take on a defender, I don't recall many games where I've seen him outsprint anyone to the ball (as we frequently see from Long, for example).

 

More of a hypothesis than claiming anything as fact, anyone else either agree, dispute or interested in such a theory?!

Edited 11 September, 2017 by mrfahaji

[SaveloyMush]

Looking at the line-up for tonight's U23 match, it seems clear that the club remains committed to a 4-2-3-1 formation. Recruitment has also been focussed on this set-up, hence our having so many so-called attacked-minded midfielders and relatively few out-and-out strikers. Shame it doesn't work...Those of us afflicted with Derryitis (including myself) look likely to remain frustrated for another season at least. Let's hope sufficient goals come out of this to keep the club in the top tier...

[JibMcdo]

I will just repost what I said before the Watford game:

 

Forster

 

Cedric Stephens Hoedt Bertrand

 

Romeu Lemina

 

Gabbiadini Davis Tadic

 

Austin

 

McCarthy, Yoshida, Pied, JWP, Redmond, Boufal, Long

 

Gabbi and Austin both playing would be nice, they are the only 2 players who are capable of scoring. Gabbi coming in from the right on his left foot making central runs for Tadic and Davis to find, Austin will run channels, open the space up and pop up with a goal. Tadic can reunite with Bertrand down the left and you've still got a solid central 3 in midfield. Yoshi, admirable as he is, can finally be dropped. Oh, and Redmond, too.

[shurlock]

I will just repost what I said before the Watford game:

 

Forster

 

Cedric Stephens Hoedt Bertrand

 

Romeu Lemina

 

Gabbiadini Davis Tadic

 

Austin

 

McCarthy, Yoshida, Pied, JWP, Redmond, Boufal, Long

 

Gabbi and Austin both playing would be nice, they are the only 2 players who are capable of scoring. Gabbi coming in from the right on his left foot making central runs for Tadic and Davis to find, Austin will run channels, open the space up and pop up with a goal. Tadic can reunite with Bertrand down the left and you've still got a solid central 3 in midfield. Yoshi, admirable as he is, can finally be dropped. Oh, and Redmond, too.

 

eh?

[derry]

So basically we can't select any of our midfielders?

 

That obviously won't work (or be what happens).

 

The personnel is what it is. They are mostly good players, we need to find a way of getting the best out of them.

 

I can guarentee the number of PL games this season when none of Tadic, Redmond, Boufal or Davis start will be zero.

 

I said three or four of the six. As long as we continue doing that, we won't score enough goals with one isolated striker tearing his hair out. Two or three strikers plus a maximum of two of the six non scorers is what we are left with. I can see us descending into crisis through a lack of goals. We have failed to score in more games since the start of last season than any other team currently in the PL. Continuing to expect any of the six to suddenly start scoring regularly is stupidity or that the defensive players will make up the shortfall at set pieces.

[simo]

Four four ****ing two !

[SuperSAINT]

@OptaJohan: 100 - Hakim Ziyech has now been involved in 100 goals & assists in 137 Eredivisie games (51 goals, 49 assists). Century.

[Dusic]

So after a few games we are back to Shane Long leading the line.

 

Decent from him today, did what he does well - stretched the game, put their defenders under pressure and tried to win a pen by stopping running so a defender runs into him but the ref saw through it.

 

However, neither against United or Palace has he looked remotely like scoring and there is little chance he will score 10 in the season.

 

With nobody else really scoring can we really afford to not play Gabbiadini who is the best striker we have?

 

Austin looked like a carthorse today. He isn't the answer. I would look to get shot of him in January.

[larry12]

We need to make a change to the general pattern of play...every team in the Prem knows EXACTLY how we will set-up the team and play, irrespective of the players on the pitch. It is pointless putting Gabbi up front with Austin - they are too similar in style...i.e. they are both box poachers...NOT ceators. I would play either Redmond or Boufal up front with Gabbi. This then provides an 'extra' place for a midfield provider, but therein lies the problem because JWP and Davis are not good enough. Tadic can do the job, but where - central? Certainly not Long...he is worth nothing more than a bench space to run at tired legs in the last 10 mins. Fact is this squad is not built to deliver the quality of football aspired to...the coaches don't know how to adapt and in doing so they are removing all the maverick/inspirational/creative aspects of our best players (e.g. Gabbi, Boufal and Redmond).

 

In summary it's a deep seated and very difficult problem we're faced with. Personally I fear for our season based on the evidence not of one game but the trend in a number key performance indicators over the last 24 months.

 

Quite simple. In January, sell/give away Davis,JWP, Romeu, Long, Austin, Tadic, Redmond, Hojbjerg and buy replacements, having FIRST sacked Les Reed. Problem.............solution!

[Winnersaint]

Quite simple. In January, sell/give away Davis,JWP, Romeu, Long, Austin, Tadic, Redmond, Hojbjerg and buy replacements, having FIRST sacked Les Reed. Problem.............solution!

 

This person is so anti-Saints. Troll or Skate?? Either way get rid!

[hackedoff]

Easy, just get in some strikers and AM,s that can actually offer a goal threat, sod it the transfer window has now shut. This was a problem stemming from the end of last season and the club did NOTHING about it apart from selling JRod and loaning out Gallagher again. May well be very costly.

[mrfahaji]

A moment vs United - we win (or get) the ball back about 35 yards from their goal. The ball goes out to Tadic who twists & turns for a bit, before eventually delivering a cross towards Long at the far post. It's a decent ball but de Gea comes out to collect it.

 

On the replay, Long is the only player in the box. This is despite Tadic holding it up for a bit. I don't think our attacking midfielders have the instincts to get into the box when they have opportunity, as surely they're not being coached NOT to get in the box. Redmond had already shown his lack of urgency and/or instinct earlier in the game by failing to get up and support Long when doing so may have led to a chance.

[HKsaint]

If we continue to have Redmond, Tadic, Long and Bofaul upfront, I can guarantee that our goals scoring will be much less than last year. From statistics,you can see no one can score more than 10 between them. I have no objection to having Long with Austin or Gabb. Long is less selfish than others because he at least understand that he can't score.

[SO16_Saint]

We are only goals away from being a very strong team

[Batman]

sure I heard on the stream yesterday that since Pulis has taken over WBA, have had NIL a lot more than his WBA team and involved in more 0-0s than anyone else

and that we are by some distance, the most boring side in the league (in terms of goals scored)

[qwertyell]

We are only goals away from being a very strong team

 

It's not as if that's the most important element or anything; the aim of the game...

 

"We're only money away from being millionaires!"

[Convict Colony]

@OptaJohan: 100 - Hakim Ziyech has now been involved in 100 goals & assists in 137 Eredivisie games (51 goals, 49 assists). Century.

 

 

Gonna go and watch the legend today

[doddisalegend]

I've just seen that Aguero has scored seven already this season which is more than our whole squad has managed

[Nordic Saint]

Don't play players who can't score goals as strikers. Some are raving about Long having one of his best games yesterday and he yet he still never looked like scoring, passing the ball to someone who might score or even controlling the ball in the penalty area. As for Redmond, he tries to avoid the penalty area by running away from it when he gets the ball but at least he occasionally passes effectively. Our 'attacking' players generally look like they are terrified of getting into a goal scoring position and actually having to shoot at goal.

 

Of course it was stupid to sell our 2 top goal scorers in the same summer and we have had a goal scoring problem ever since. Pelle and Mane were not afraid to shoot and for the whole game they were looking to create or score goals. Mane would have scored even more for us if Koeman hadn't played him out on the wing most of the time. Pelle and Mane had hard shots which beat goalkeepers. Our current attacking players all seem to have powder puff shots. Why is that? Do they all have weak legs or are they poorly trained? Gabbiadini and Austin have both shown in the past they can score goals so we need to persevere with them until January when we can buy at least one real goal scorer, even though they cost a lot of money. As Gabbiadini and Austin are our only real goal scorers the rest of the team need to be told to pass to them at every possible opportunity. Finally, Ward-Prowse should never be allowed to take set pieces as he is hopeless at them. Nearly all of his crosses and corners go to opposition players and all of his free-kicks miss the target. He should watch Coutinho to see what a real dead ball specialist does. I think Boufal and Gabbiadini would probably be better at taking free-kicks than our other 'attacking' players, as they both seem to have the technique to curl the ball into the top corner. At least they should be given a try.

 

Here's hoping things suddenly click against Stoke and we somehow manage to score a couple of goals.

[striker]

Long played ok, if he was a midfielder

[Lord Duckhunter]

Long played ok, if he was a midfielder

 

What a load of pony. He unsettled their back 4, won plenty of ball that he had no right to win, held the ball up ok and was lively all game. Couldn't fault his performance as a lone striker yesterday. It's not his fault we can't pick the final pass

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

Prehaps we should just throw VVD up front maybe he could win a few headers, hold the ball up and maybe score from a cross something none of our strikers seem to be able to do....

[bazza]

What a load of pony. He unsettled their back 4, won plenty of ball that he had no right to win, held the ball up ok and was lively all game. Couldn't fault his performance as a lone striker yesterday. It's not his fault we can't pick the final pass

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Spot on.

[aintforever]

I thought Long had a good game, if any of the three behind him could score we would be OK.

 

We need to ditch this formation and somehow get Long and Gabbi up front together. Either 4-4-2 or 3-5-2.

[Dark Munster]

I've just seen that Aguero has scored seven already this season which is more than our whole squad has managed

We are only an Aguero away from being a very strong team.

[doddisalegend]

We are only an Aguero away from being a very strong team.

 

Nah we'd find away to get him firing blanks every game....

[Ohio Saint]

Have a meeting and introduce the players to each other.

[James]

What a load of pony. He unsettled their back 4, won plenty of ball that he had no right to win, held the ball up ok and was lively all game. Couldn't fault his performance as a lone striker yesterday. It's not his fault we can't pick the final pass

 

 

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Yet he never looked like actually putting the ball in the back of the net which is the primary job of a lone striker. He’s pretty “pony” at the job he’s primarily paid to do, scoring goals.