You reap what you sow.......

[washsaint]

So many clowns wanting Puel out for the dire football (much was but not all of it) got their wish. To be replaced by a manager that is just as defensive but does not have the team organized at all.

 

Under Puel we created chances and could not finish. UNder MP we are not creating chances and look utterly clueless. 5 games and we have only score in 1 of them and we look bereft.

 

This could well turn into a bottom half/relegation scrap unless something changes - and quickly!

 

We have so many woeful, underperforming players......Davis, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Long, Austin, Forster, Bertrand (amongst others) and are so slow and predictable we make it easy to defend against.

 

The performances this year have been far, far worse than under Puel last season. Last year we had a plan and a shape. this year we have nothing

[washsaint]

You sure are....

[niceandfriendly]

Just because we appear to have hired an average manager, doesn't suddenly mean the imbecile who managed us previously was in any way competent.

[washsaint]

The c**ts really are out in force today aren't they

 

SO you're happy with what you have seen this season are you? From the clueless prat that thought Mane should not have been sent off.

[benjii]

We don't have any identity or obvious plan anymore. Part of the problem is the personnel but at least Puel seemed stubborn and had a plan. Not sure Pellegrino really has a grip on it yet.

[Pamplemousse]

I was against the decision to sack Puel but turning on our own fans won't solve anything, and turning on our own manager after his first league defeat won't solve anything either.

[Saint86]

So many clowns wanting Puel out for the dire football (much was but not all of it) got their wish. To be replaced by a manager that is just as defensive but does not have the team organized at all.

 

Under Puel we created chances and could not finish. UNder MP we are not creating chances and look utterly clueless. 5 games and we have only score in 1 of them and we look bereft.

 

This could well turn into a bottom half/relegation scrap unless something changes - and quickly!

 

We have so many woeful, underperforming players......Davis, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Long, Austin, Forster, Bertrand (amongst others) and are so slow and predictable we make it easy to defend against.

 

The performances this year have been far, far worse than under Puel last season. Last year we had a plan and a shape. this year we have nothing

 

None of what you say is the fault of the current manager. You know that right? We have massive issues scoring and we signed 2CB's and a Def Midfielder.... Then for some odd reason we've got a bang average goalie on a what, a 6year contract?!?! Your arguments about players may or may not be right, but the current manager didn't sign them and in fact has not been allowed to make any signings. And on top of that, he didn't make the decision to keep the allegedly troublesome black.

 

Please allocate blame against the correct people. It is ridiculous to turn on the manager after 5games!

[Greenridge]

So many clowns wanting Puel out for the dire football (much was but not all of it) got their wish. To be replaced by a manager that is just as defensive but does not have the team organized at all.

 

Under Puel we created chances and could not finish. UNder MP we are not creating chances and look utterly clueless. 5 games and we have only score in 1 of them and we look bereft.

 

This could well turn into a bottom half/relegation scrap unless something changes - and quickly!

 

We have so many woeful, underperforming players......Davis, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Long, Austin, Forster, Bertrand (amongst others) and are so slow and predictable we make it easy to defend against.

 

The performances this year have been far, far worse than under Puel last season. Last year we had a plan and a shape. this year we have nothing

 

First you blame the fans, then the manager, then the players. All in the same post. Bless.

[Heisenberg]

Arguing over Puel or Pellegrino....

 

Feels like asking if you'd prefer a kick in the nuts or a punch in the face.

[stknowle]

The c**ts really are out in force today aren't they

 

Don't see what the OP has said to make him a c*nt whatsoever.

[SonicBoom]

When the players are sluggish and don't seem up for it then the first place I would look is the players themselves. You should not need a manager to hype you up. They are fit enough so they should look at their own mentality. Obviously the tactics etc are extremely important but the lack of fight is purely the players. A team full of leaders would have been sorting themselves out on the pitch and possibly having a few harsh words with each other.

[Window Cleaner]

Absolutely, as I've said before we are an average side throughout and we get average results. Want better results ? Sign better than average players for higher than average fees. Football is about that these days, the best sides spend the most money and everybody else is just well, average.

[doddisalegend]

The issue last season was a lot of the Puel out brigade refused to admit how ****ing average the squad had become.

 

They were adamant the team was good and it was all the managers fault yet new manager same (actually worse) crap becuase while their is usually stuff a manager can improve on in the end a worker is only as good as his tools and ours are blunt and rusty...

[aintforever]

You can't blame the fans, I can't remember many people clamouring for Pelegríno.

 

The buck stops with Les Reed, he could have hired Silva a week after the end of last season except he ****ed around for weeks and missed out.

[Heisenberg]

The issue last season was a lot of the Puel out brigade refused to admit how ****ing average the squad had become.

 

They were adamant the team was good and it was all the managers fault yet new manager same (actually worse) crap becuase while their is usually stuff a manager can improve on in the end a worker is only as good as his tools and ours are blunt and rusty...

 

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57808-The-cupboard-is-almost-bare#.WbQg93PTXqA

[Lighthouse]

Wow, has it really taken just 5 games for people to start looking back on Puel with rose tinted glasses? This squad is far more capable than what either manager has achieved so far. We should have bought another attacking player, moved a couple more on and given MP time to work with it.

 

If you are genuinely looking back with fondness at a man who failed to organise a goal in his final 6 home games, not to mention playing for a 0-0 at home to Be'er Sheva, then you may be going senile.

[doddisalegend]

Wow, has it really taken just 5 games for people to start looking back on Puel with rose tinted glasses? This squad is far more capable than what either manager has achieved so far. We should have bought another attacking player, moved a couple more on and given MP time to work with it.

 

If you are genuinely looking back with fondness at a man who failed to organise a goal in his final 6 home games, not to mention playing for a 0-0 at home to Be'er Sheva, then you may be going senile.

 

Really on what evidence? we managed a cup final and 8th last season people said we were capable of more. We changed manager and so far we out of the cup and on the level performance we've managed so far 8th would be a miracle people need to realise the squad is not a good as it use to be.

[Disco Stu]

Puel was not giving us our moneys worth last season.

[Give it to Ron]

So its the clowns fault that those in charge appointed a candidate with no Prem management experience again?

The clowns fault the management spent the summer putting down a marker let 2 forwards go and didnt replace?

The clowns fault this manager is scared and frightened to change a failing system?

Damn those clowns for wanting ambition, quality and entertaining.

 

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Oops Pellegrino did have didn't he....that makes it worse

Edited 9 September, 2017 by Give it to Ron

[70's Mike]

You can't blame the fans, I can't remember many people clamouring for Pelegríno.

 

The buck stops with Les Reed, he could have hired Silva a week after the end of last season except he ****ed around for weeks and missed out.

 

exactly uncle les's luck may have finally run out

[1576]

The c**ts really are out in force today aren't they

 

*****. today was great wasn't it?

[Lighthouse]

Really on what evidence? we managed a cup final and 8th last season people said we were capable of more. We changed manager and so far we out of the cup and on the level performance we've managed so far 8th would be a miracle people need to realise the squad is not a good as it use to be.

 

Austin showed at QPR he is capable of 10-15 goals a season.

Gabbi showed what he is capable of in the cup final.

Tadic showed what he is capable of under Koeman

Hojbjerg, JWP, Redmond and Boufal all have talent in varying amounts but are yet to produce results.

 

We can't keep going on about losing Mané and Pelle. Yes they are a big loss but 18 other teams in this division manage to score without them.

[Forester]

None of what you say is the fault of the current manager. You know that right? We have massive issues scoring and we signed 2CB's and a Def Midfielder.... Then for some odd reason we've got a bang average goalie on a what, a 6year contract?!?! Your arguments about players may or may not be right, but the current manager didn't sign them and in fact has not been allowed to make any signings. And on top of that, he didn't make the decision to keep the allegedly troublesome black.

 

Please allocate blame against the correct people. It is ridiculous to turn on the manager after 5games!

I am not turning on the manager. Yet. But I am holding him accountable for one of the worst Saints performances I have seen since Branfoot days in terms of playing style. Much of today was aimlessly hoofing the ball forward and surrendering possession.

 

I have much bigger concerns though having been at all five games so far, and having been at something like forty games last season. There was a pattern and purpose to Puel. Frequently dull at home, but not always. Generally good away. So far this season we have won one game of the five against ten men through a stoppage time penalty. We were outplayed in second half by 10 man Wet Spam, outplayed by Wolves reserves, outplayed first half by Udders and bullied all game today. We are yet to face anyone who finished below us, and have used up three home games already.

 

I can see no pattern or plan, lower levels of workrate and a disturbing inability to change anything. I have supported every manager since and including Pardew and if you check my posts history you will see I am usually a "happy clapper". But this is truly dire to watch, and we are in a relation battle unless there are fundamental changes to the way we are approaching games.

 

The manager has been brought in on big money, we have paid compensation to get rid of a manager who took us to Wembley unbeaten and finished eight with approximately a dozen more games to play than MP has to face now. He now has week in week out uninterrupted coaching time. Let's see what he is made of.

[LGTL]

What's our style?

 

We don't keep possession, we don't press, we don't go long. Our style seems to be short, sideways balls before going into a congested mess.

[Lord Duckhunter]

So let's look at it: we've played Swansea, West Ham, Wolves Reserves, Huddersfield & Watford. Hardly stellar clubs or difficult games. 4 of which were at home . One win, last minute peno against 10 men. 1 game we've scored in, 1 goal against 11. Those are the facts.Equally the performances have been shocking. OR going backwards, as has JWP, Gabbi, & Davo. Anybody who thinks we're better off now than under Claude is deluded. As the OP states, you reap what you sow.

 

A decent man lost his job, a man who did a bloody good job.

 

 

 

 

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[Sour Mash]

Absolutely, as I've said before we are an average side throughout and we get average results. Want better results ? Sign better than average players for higher than average fees. Football is about that these days, the best sides spend the most money and everybody else is just well, average.

 

Getting well beat at home to Watford is below 'average'.

 

But original poster is right- plenty of sensible people pointed this out last season.

 

The club is lacking identity at the moment to say the least, a 'sold out' game, with rows of empty seats, blocks given away to japanese students, clappers for atmosphere- feels a million miles from the club of a few years ago.

[James]

So let's look at it: we've played Swansea, West Ham, Wolves Reserves, Huddersfield & Watford. Hardly stellar clubs or difficult games. 4 of which were at home . One win, last minute peno against 10 men. 1 game we've scored in, 1 goal against 11. Those are the facts.Equally the performances have been shocking. OR going backwards, as has JWP, Gabbi, & Davo. Anybody who thinks we're better off now than under Claude is deluded. As the OP states, you reap what you sow.

 

A decent man lost his job, a man who did a bloody good job.

 

 

 

 

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Are you going to bang on about Puel all season? He was ****e, if MP turns out to also be ****e then it won't make Puel any better.

 

Reed is at fault here. We could have gone for Silva but we dithered and we should have freshened up our attack but instead we've been stockpiling centre halves (which, ironically, was what we should have been doing last January).

 

Fact is, the rot had set in during RK's second season where we played some awful stuff until we went on a one of a kind Mane/Long inspired run to sixth.

 

Continuing to flog our Crown Jewels, replacing them with average, cheap players (compared to the current going rate) and leaving glaring holes in the squad every window was always going to catch up with us and I do worry we will be dragged in at the bottom this year. Even Brighton have started scoring.

[OldNick]

Are you going to bang on about Puel all season? He was ****e, if MP turns out to also be ****e then it won't make Puel any better.

 

Reed is at fault here. We could have gone for Silva but we dithered and we should have freshened up our attack but instead we've been stockpiling centre halves (which, ironically, was what we should have been doing last January).

 

Fact is, the rot had set in during RK's second season where we played some awful stuff until we went on a one of a kind Mane/Long inspired run to sixth.

 

Continuing to flog our Crown Jewels, replacing them with average, cheap players (compared to the current going rate) and leaving glaring holes in the squad every window was always going to catch up with us and I do worry we will be dragged in at the bottom this year. Even Brighton have started scoring.

your opinion that he was rubbish. He did pretty well steering the ship to acup final and 8th. All the crying about rotation etc when we had to play in Europe as well as domestic football. The amount of different teams the fans on here want to put out, it would be rotation extreme.

Puel had 2 handicaps, he had a squad that had over 30 goals ripped from it and not rectified, and his aftermatch communication was poor, well you have someone who smiles there now, whoopee dee

[Saint-Fred]

So let's look at it: we've played Swansea, West Ham, Wolves Reserves, Huddersfield & Watford. Hardly stellar clubs or difficult games. 4 of which were at home . One win, last minute peno against 10 men. 1 game we've scored in, 1 goal against 11. Those are the facts.Equally the performances have been shocking. OR going backwards, as has JWP, Gabbi, & Davo. Anybody who thinks we're better off now than under Claude is deluded. As the OP states, you reap what you sow.

 

A decent man lost his job, a man who did a bloody good job.

 

 

 

 

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Lol plenty of decent men have lost their jobs...why not follow his new club as such a brilliant manager must be in demand for a job with a giant of Europe?

[James]

your opinion that he was rubbish. He did pretty well steering the ship to acup final and 8th. All the crying about rotation etc when we had to play in Europe as well as domestic football. The amount of different teams the fans on here want to put out, it would be rotation extreme.

Puel had 2 handicaps, he had a squad that had over 30 goals ripped from it and not rectified, and his aftermatch communication was poor, well you have someone who smiles there now, whoopee dee

 

Of course it's my opinion, it's a forum. If he was so brilliant then why was our football so dull to watch, why did we fail to score in six consecutive home games and why did the board, ultimately, decide to part ways with him?

 

If you think the board actually sacked Puel because the fans didn't like his interviews then you are kidding yourself. If they responded to the fans clamouring then they'd have signed an attacker in the window.

[Sour Mash]

Of course it's my opinion, it's a forum. If he was so brilliant then why was our football so dull to watch, why did we fail to score in six consecutive home games and why did the board, ultimately, decide to part ways with him?

 

If you think the board actually sacked Puel because the fans didn't like his interviews then you are kidding yourself. If they responded to the fans clamouring then they'd have signed an attacker in the window.

Has it crossed your mind that it might not be about the manager?

[James]

Has it crossed your mind that it might not be about the manager?

 

Yes, as I said in my post above, I also think Les Reed is responsible for constructing a deficient squad and for selling off our best attacking talent. However, I've seen managers produce better football than we currently are with much more limited players so it at least has something to do with the manager.

[aintforever]

Anyone who thinks Puel was fired because of what a few people wrote on a message board is a ****ing idiot. No surprise to see a few on here.

[OldNick]

Of course it's my opinion, it's a forum. If he was so brilliant then why was our football so dull to watch, why did we fail to score in six consecutive home games and why did the board, ultimately, decide to part ways with him?

 

If you think the board actually sacked Puel because the fans didn't like his interviews then you are kidding yourself. If they responded to the fans clamouring then they'd have signed an attacker in the window.

I understand the frustration of the so-called dull football but that was due to the fact that we couldn't score. I have watched may dull games but as soon as a goal went in the whole perspective changed. Just look at match threads on here 2 or 3 seasons ago and see how dull it was and how that we were rubbish etc, then a goal went in and 'we will finish top 4'

We sold Mane and Pelle, many said we needed to fill the gap but the club played the 3 card rick of we had already signed a replacement a few months before. They may have pulled the wool over a lot of peoples eyes but there were quite a few who still flagged it up

In my opinion we played some superb football last season, but just didn't have aa finisher.

We have got to get on with it as we are where we are, but I lament how the club and vast majority of fans were classless in their treatment of what seems to me. a decent man

[James]

Anyone who thinks Puel was fired because of what a few people wrote on a message board is a ****ing idiot. No surprise to see a few on here.

 

Exactly. The club reportedly asking him to change his style and he wouldn't. Fair play to him sticking to his principles but the club made the change. As things haven't changed under MP, it stands to reason they aren't happy with what they are seeing at the moment. I do worry that the board and club believe this squad to be better than it is though.

[OldNick]

Anyone who thinks Puel was fired because of what a few people wrote on a message board is a ****ing idiot. No surprise to see a few on here.

I haven't seen anyone claiming that it was down to a few fans on here, it was the fanbase in general. Perhaps the fans who read this and other social media sites did help whip it up.

[Give it to Ron]

I haven't seen anyone claiming that it was down to a few fans on here, it was the fanbase in general. Perhaps the fans who read this and other social media sites did help whip it up.

n/t

 

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[aintforever]

I haven't seen anyone claiming that it was down to a few fans on here, it was the fanbase in general. Perhaps the fans who read this and other social media sites did help whip it up.

 

That's ******, the club wouldn't give a **** about what's written on here or twitter - they would have made their decision based on the dull football and poor attendances.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Anyone who thinks Puel was fired because of what a few people wrote on a message board is a ****ing idiot. No surprise to see a few on here.

 

Has anyone claimed that? Of course not, you just made it up.

 

 

 

 

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[leeham_69]

comments like this failing to be moderated is the #1 problem with this site. absolutely no reason to abuse other people for posting an opinion.

[leeham_69]

comments like this failing to be moderated is the #1 problem with this site. absolutely no reason to abuse other people for posting an opinion.

 

pressed the wrong button - i was referring to this:

The c**ts really are out in force today aren't they

[warsash saint]

What is all this love in for Silva!? After Hulls heavy defeats against Palace& Spurs at the end of last season there were very few asking Les to sign in up!!

[Heisenberg]

What is all this love in for Silva!? After Hulls heavy defeats against Palace& Spurs at the end of last season there were very few asking Les to sign in up!!

 

By very few do you mean loads?

 

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?58288-The-Next-Manager-Thread&highlight=manager+thread#.WbRsoHPTXqA

[Plastic]

Arguing over Puel or Pellegrino....

 

Feels like asking if you'd prefer a kick in the nuts or a punch in the face.

 

Punch in the face please

[Dark Munster]

I understand the frustration of the so-called dull football but that was due to the fact that we couldn't score. I have watched may dull games but as soon as a goal went in the whole perspective changed. Just look at match threads on here 2 or 3 seasons ago and see how dull it was and how that we were rubbish etc, then a goal went in and 'we will finish top 4'

We sold Mane and Pelle, many said we needed to fill the gap but the club played the 3 card rick of we had already signed a replacement a few months before. They may have pulled the wool over a lot of peoples eyes but there were quite a few who still flagged it up

In my opinion we played some superb football last season, but just didn't have aa finisher.

We have got to get on with it as we are where we are, but I lament how the club and vast majority of fans were classless in their treatment of what seems to me. a decent man

This.

[kermitsaint]

So let's look at it: we've played Swansea, West Ham, Wolves Reserves, Huddersfield & Watford. Hardly stellar clubs or difficult games. 4 of which were at home . One win, last minute peno against 10 men. 1 game we've scored in, 1 goal against 11. Those are the facts.Equally the performances have been shocking. OR going backwards, as has JWP, Gabbi, & Davo. Anybody who thinks we're better off now than under Claude is deluded. As the OP states, you reap what you sow.

 

A decent man lost his job, a man who did a bloody good job.

 

 

 

 

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I think its more a case that both managers are very poor . You have to wonder what Les Reed looks for in a manager .

 

 

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[Ultimatt]

It's not the manager....

It wasn't Puel's fault.

It's not Pellegrino's fault.

Its our squad.

 

Our midfield/wingers don't score. None of them have ever been prolific. A lot of them were fringe players at their clubs when we bought them on the cheap. We sold our only player that could hold up the ball. We sold our best attacking player in Mane. We replaced them with a more mobile striker in Gabbiadini and a guy that struggled in the championship with Norwich.

 

All our attacking players except Austin are lightweight and get bullied off the ball. As soon as we get pressed none of them have the strength to hold it which is what Pelle brought.

 

This team is so unbelievably easy to defend against. Teams can comfortably sit back and clear cross after cross because we don't get players forward in the box and even when we do they're all small and weak. Teams can press and bully us of the ball. Our lone striker is completely disconnected and gets closed down out of the game with no one around to give him space.

 

Worst team since we got promoted. We need to stop targeting players that failed at big clubs. If they're not good enough for big clubs then we're buying midtable or worse (Bertrand never got a chance at Chelsea behind Cole, Romeu had a bad injury while still young). We need to stop targeting young english players because of their potential sale value if they succeed. We made some brilliant overseas signings that gave us our recent success, buying English means buying with a markup. We should be buying players that were stars in their leagues; Pelle, Mane, VVD etc.

[Ultimatt]

Stats from Premierleague.com https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/20/Southampton/stats?se=79

 

Shots (per game)

2012/13 MoPo: 516 (13.58)

2013/14 MoPo: 534 (14.05)

2014/15 Koeman: 509 (13.39)

2015/16 Koeman: 519 (13.66)

2016/17 Puel: 550 (14.47)

 

More shots last year under Puel than the previous managers, but seriously lacking the quality to convert having not replaced what Mane/Pelle offered.

 

Saves / Goals conceded

2012/13 MoPo: No stats

2013/14 MoPo: 85 / 46

2014/15 Koeman: 80 / 33

2015/16 Koeman: 94 / 41

2016/17 Puel: 76 / 48

 

Least saves. Most goals conceded. Forster was woeful last year. We had our 3rd/4th choice CB's most of the season. We no longer had a DM enforcer like Wanyama or Morgan protecting outside the box.

 

The stats say Puel was massively let down by mediocre players while his predecessors had more quality. Our fanbase was spoilt with some brilliant players that got poached by top clubs and now we have the same expectations for a much weaker side.

[alpine_saint]

The real "sowing" was selling Mane and Pelle and not replacing adequately.

[Poolesaint]

So many clowns wanting Puel out for the dire football (much was but not all of it) got their wish. To be replaced by a manager that is just as defensive but does not have the team organized at all.

 

Under Puel we created chances and could not finish. UNder MP we are not creating chances and look utterly clueless. 5 games and we have only score in 1 of them and we look bereft.

 

This could well turn into a bottom half/relegation scrap unless something changes - and quickly!

 

We have so many woeful, underperforming players......Davis, Tadic, Boufal, Redmond, Long, Austin, Forster, Bertrand (amongst others) and are so slow and predictable we make it easy to defend against.

 

The performances this year have been far, far worse than under Puel last season. Last year we had a plan and a shape. this year we have nothing

 

Totally agree

 

 

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