Saints 0 Watford 2 - Match & Meltdown

[saintant]

I fear that this squad of players is not fit enough, fast enough, powerful enough or athletic enough to do anything other than struggle feebly at this level. And I haven't even commented on the lack of skill.

[Disco Stu]

Slow , uncreative, slow, indirect and slow. We're too easy to defend against. Tadic briefly improved things after half time and I still stand by what I said about him being the better choice over Davis or Ward-Prowse. Davis may be more consistent and our mister reliable but that is because he doesn't take the kind of risks that is required for that position. In the end though, the performance was frustrating and boring.

 

On another note, I have to give credit to Watford when it's due. Their high pressing negated us entirely. I had hoped they would tire from playing at such a high intensity but their team looks fit, strong and more importantly, together. There was some impressive one touch direct football they were playing. If they can perform like that every week, I would expect them to be fighting for that 'best of the rest' spot.

[bazza]

That was a shockingly bad display. Awful all over the pitch. Dreadful.

[Vancouver Saint]

 

Quite...I wonder if he's ever been to Canada?

 

I must confess though, that looking forward to our games and getting up early to watch that desperately dire performance has got me saying 'get a life'!

 

Vancouver Whitecaps would give Saints a beating based on that crap (BTW Saints scouts on here go get the 16 year-old Whitecaps forward phenom Alphonso Davies...Man Utd scouts already sniffing)

 

It's official - we're ****e.

 

Am more nervous than excited for the season now.

[VectisSaint]

I've seen the morbidly obese get down quicker for a stick of celery than Forster get down to stop a shot.

 

If after that performance our manager doesn't give McCarthy a go then there is no hope. Cost us the point we didn't deserve. Hopeless, once again two shots (one not very good) on target, 2 goals. Please drop the useless lump.

[OttawaSaint]

Quite...I wonder if he's ever been to Canada?

 

I must confess though, that looking forward to our games and getting up early to watch that desperately dire performance has got me saying 'get a life'!

 

Vancouver Whitecaps would give Saints a beating based on that crap (BTW Saints scouts on here go get the 16 year-old Whitecaps forward phenom Alphonso Davies...Man Utd scouts already sniffing)

 

It's official - we're ****e.

 

Am more nervous than excited for the season now.

 

We're the early game next Saturday too. That means 4:30am for you!

 

I reckon that this Saints team would struggle against the Ottawa Fury, and THAT is saying something.

[Heisenberg]

Gabbiadini one goal in his last 13 games.... A frustrated and isolated man

[Sour Mash]

Did anyone expect anything different?

 

Did anyone rock up to St Mary's today really expecting an entertaining, attacking display?

 

We've been boring to watch for ages. We had the opportunity to address that in the transfer window, but chose not to.

 

A dull team, watched by Japanese students waving clappers. Boring load of s***te.

[SKD]

Wish we had Marco Silva in our dug out.

 

Where the fack was our midfield? Totally bullied by Watfords athletic players who all towered above most of our team.

 

Very worrying. Ironically we've probably kept our players, in the one season we should have let them go!

 

Many said last season that we should go go for Silva. They were of course shot down by a the few idiots on here (the usual happy clapping suspects) who claimed he wasn't any better than Puel. Their evidence was that he had just been relegated with (a terrible) Hull.

 

I'm not sure today result is the managers fault, it's more that we have a few very bang average players, but they beat us all over the park today.

 

Would it have been any different under Silva? I don't know. But from what I've seen, Silva was the better manager out there today.

[OttawaSaint]

Gabbiadini one goal in his last 13 games.... A frustrated and isolated man

 

They all look horribly frustrated and out of sorts. We need something to spark us, anything...

[derry]

Stupidity is doing the same thing time after time and hoping for a different result. It's down to the manager, four lightweight non scoring non competitive playmakers won't win matches. Replace JWP with Tadic, more of the same. Replace Gabbiadini with Long, FFS bring Long on and take a lightweight off. JWP, Davis, Boufal, Redmond, Tadic haven't scored goals, won't score goals so leave them out, recycling them expecting goals is stupidity.

 

Time for the manager to earn his millions, stop recycling 4-2-3-1 and think out a formation that get's the goal scorers on the field and put the energetic high tempo Long up with them. Get VVD back in alongside Hoedt, and Lamina next to Romeu. I don't care whether it turns out to be 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2, or any other combination, all I want is to see the players complementing each other and a balanced team with pace and strength unlike the turgid crap served up today. And as predicted the cow's arse had a pain free day again.

[Disco Stu]

Stupidity is doing the same thing time after time and hoping for a different result.

 

I thought that was madness?

 

Agree though. Pelligrino seems very stubborn with his 4-2-3-1 formation.

[OttawaSaint]

MP knows he's in deep here. There was a shot of him crouched down on his haunches and starting straight down. Not great body language.

 

In hockey after a performance like that you "bag skate" them and have a clear the air meeting behind closed doors. It usually ends in a punchup but has the desired effect of airing any grievances and bringing the team together.

 

Double fitness sessions needed and a team meeting. Sort it out.

[doddisalegend]

Stupidity is doing the same thing time after time and hoping for a different result. It's down to the manager, four lightweight non scoring non competitive playmakers won't win matches. Replace JWP with Tadic, more of the same. Replace Gabbiadini with Long, FFS bring Long on and take a lightweight off. JWP, Davis, Boufal, Redmond, Tadic haven't scored goals, won't score goals so leave them out, recycling them expecting goals is stupidity.

 

Time for the manager to earn his millions, stop recycling 4-2-3-1 and think out a formation that get's the goal scorers on the field and put the energetic high tempo Long up with them. Get VVD back in alongside Hoedt, and Lamina next to Romeu. I don't care whether it turns out to be 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-3-1-2, or any other combination, all I want is to see the players complementing each other and a balanced team with pace and strength unlike the turgid crap served up today. And as predicted the cow's arse had a pain free day again.

 

so don't play most of the midfield, play three strikers and a load of CBs and DMs seems balanced..

[saints-til-i-die]

Chalaba cost £5 million. Hoijberg cost £10m ish? Says it all there. Poor recruitment. Black box broken/overhyped. Silva has done exactly what I wanted MPe to do: pressing, high energy, exciting.

[Give it to Ron]

so don't play most of the midfield, play three strikers and a load of CBs and DMs seems balanced..

Would Hojberg or Clasie be any worse than JWP or Davis?

 

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[doddisalegend]

Chalaba cost £5 million. Hoijberg cost £10m ish? Says it all there. Poor recruitment. Black box broken/overhyped. Silva has done exactly what I wanted MPe to do: pressing, high energy, exciting.

 

That's a stretch. Watford were big and powerful with a bit of pace on the break, but they weren't particularly good, both their goals came from long range shots from (poorly) cleared set pieces clearly more entertaining to watch than saints, at the moment, but then so is wet paint drying...

[Vancouver Saint]

LOL

 

4.30am wakeup next Saturday after that woeful display is a real test of my sad obsession with the Saints...Palace away...after their terrible start and managerial questions already...a huge game so early in the season.

 

I just know if I don't we'll win 3-0 away...perhaps I'll just PVR it for everyone's sake!

 

Interesting that both Silva and de Boer were names to replace Puel... one we didn't consider, the other who didn't consider us...how wrong can we get it!

[larry12]

Wrong thread

 

Can you tell Alpine that Reed Bashing is MY job? Get your own agenda Alpine!

[Sour Mash]

Makes you wonder whether it would have been better to have flogged VVD and forked out the 70 mill into seriously rebuilding this shower, at least half the side are not up to the job and now we are stuck with them.

 

I am not going to blame the manager.................. Just yet.

 

That was always what we should have done. Don't know why we played it the way we did.

[doddisalegend]

Would Hojberg or Clasie be any worse than JWP or Davis?

 

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I'm pretty sure we can't play Clasie and **** knows what has happened to Hoj (though last season he did actually manage to be worse than both JWP and Davis which is quite a feat) not sure either of them would have helped to day anyway Clasie is not fit enough or physical enough and Hoj can't complete a 5 yard pass with out giving the ball away.

[saint-crinny]

Clearly Watford were much bigger and more powerful than us and we totally lost the central midfield and lost the game from there for me. Just thought were lacked any urgency on the ball - we could have still competed well in the middle if we moved the ball quickly but far from it. Add in then that the likes of Redmond and Boufal offered very little and Gabbi was left totally isolated and a predictable defeat followed. Got to speed up and play with a sense of urgency and purpose.

 

Against Palace I'd be happy enough if Lamina replaced Davis, Tadic started in 10 role (he did actually improve things marginally) and then a front three of Gabbi, Austin and Long - Long and Gabbi wider and Austin centrally.

[70's Mike]

That's a stretch. Watford were big and powerful with a bit of pace on the break, but they weren't particularly good, both their goals came from long range shots from (poorly) cleared set pieces clearly more entertaining to watch than saints, at the moment, but then so is wet paint drying...

 

And that is what worries me , Watford are not good, for some reason we need to over complicated games, games are won by goals which come about from shots or pulling back crosses into the box

For some reason we do not shoot until it becomes desperate and would rather check back than cross

very frustrating and bear in mind we have not played a good side yet

[fanimal]

At least Cedric put in a shift thank goodness…Did the first goal take a deflection?

[obelisk]

On my way back from simply the worst performance in a long time.

Is Forster unlucky that every single shot on target is a worldly or is he just ****?

Tactically clueless against an average side.

Our coaches have taken decent players and coached the talent out of them. Dreadful.

 

 

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The coaching team hasn't changed from last season though has it? Just a chance that the problem could lie there.

[Stu Man Do]

And yet our manager did not seem to mind us being totally battered in midfield and decided to leave our record signing on the bench. I'm yet to see MP tactically change a game for th better. Subs today were poor. Both issues the same as under Puel. Really disappointing game but the pre match language of trying to compete with Watford poor form Saints!

[70's Mike]

The coaching team hasn't changed from last season though has it? Just a chance that the problem could lie there.

 

Black cannot remember when he was last involved in a successful side

[Norm]

I don't get to many games these days as I seem to spend time/money with family, mainly grandkids on Saturdays. The games I went to last season were,

 

0-1 Stoke

0-3 Man C

1-3 West Ham

1-1 Sunderland

and today.

Looking at the above, it must be me putting the jinks on Saints! All will be well for our next home game as I promise to go out for a Pizza with the kids!

 

PS, we were shocking and looked lost against a team that had the confidence to win.

[kwsaint]

Watford looked limited but very well organised. We looked like a bunch of spare parts. The only player to come out with any credit was Jack Stephens. It's going to be a long season. Could do worse than playing VVD in midfield when he is back. And will they never learn that putting Boufal, Tadic and Redmond on the pitch at the same time doesn't work. And someone please give Gabbi some service other than lumping it forward from the back

 

And please get rid of the clackers.

[obelisk]

I couldn't be arsed to watch today. I'm drifting away from the relentless negative poor displays where nothing ever changes. Actually it has changed - for the worse. Anyone care to remind me how many goals scored at St Mary's in 2017? There's your problem. Confidence is shot. I really hardly care any more.

[doddisalegend]

At least Cedric put in a shift thank goodness…Did the first goal take a deflection?

 

Despite letting in two I didn't think the defence was that bad today especially given the lack of protection from midfield Cedric was arguably our best player today.

[Give it to Ron]

I'm pretty sure we can't play Clasie and **** knows what has happened to Hoj (though last season he did actually manage to be worse than both JWP and Davis which is quite a feat) not sure either of them would have helped to day anyway Clasie is not fit enough or physical enough and Hoj can't complete a 5 yard pass with out giving the ball away.

Yep aware Clasie gone point is was he any worse than we have seen this season?

Hojberg at least can tackle something neither anyone apart from Romeu did today and he was poor too unusually for him.

 

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Edited 9 September, 2017 by Give it to Ron

[hypochondriac]

I couldn't be arsed to watch today. I'm drifting away from the relentless negative poor displays where nothing ever changes. Actually it has changed - for the worse. Anyone care to remind me how many goals scored at St Mary's in 2017? There's your problem. Confidence is shot. I really hardly care any more.

I have to be honest it's really hard not to feel a similar way. Harder than ever at the moment to be that engaged with what's going on. I expected a Watford goal today with the way we were playing and the second one was met with a shrug which is a really sad indictment when you consider how engaging and entertaining the football was just a few seasons ago.

[Supersubpuckett]

My son and I are ST holders, missed a few games and haven't seen us score at home since we beat boro in early December last year!

 

We look utterly devoid of belief and any sense of being a team. Hoedt must wonder wtf he's walked into.

 

Forster looks petrified

Our defence seems sound

Midfield is extremely average - Redmond and Boufal are dreadful

Forwards - hard to say as they get such poor service. Gabbi probably bored. Austin looks like he'd struggle in a dads v lads game

 

Manager? Too early but everyone knows watford are a physical team so why put those two useless flakey pussies in Boufal and Redmond on but leave lemina off. Today we needed a strong core with a bit of bite up front. I don't think he knows what his best 11 is or what formation is best.

 

It's going to be a tough season......again.

[doddisalegend]

Yep aware Clasie gone point is was he any worse than we have seen this season?

Hojberg at least can tackle something neither anyone apart from Romeu did today and he was poor too unusually for him.

 

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frankly I'm pinning all my hopes on Lemina becoming Morgan-esque.

[Dark Munster]

I fear that this squad of players is not fit enough, fast enough, powerful enough or athletic enough to do anything other than struggle feebly at this level. And I haven't even commented on the lack of skill.

So maybe it wasn't Claude's fault last year that we only finished 8th and got to a cup final.

[tobes8]

Different manager same result and nothing seems to have changed with the same players playing in the same positions. Within the first 5 mins you could see that if was going to be a tough afternoon as Watford seemed to be on the pulse from the very off whilst we on the other hand were ponderous.

There were numerous occasions when the manager was trying to direct players and they paid no attention whatsoever and on one occasion redmond was told to push up and then totally left his man unmarked and he exchanged some pretty animated gestures towards the bench.

 

Absolutely no cohesion in the play today, nobody seemed to be on the same wavelength with anyone else. This formation has to change otherwise another season of boring uninspiring awaits.

Whilst we can blame the manager I'm amazed how les reed seems to be loved on here. He takes all the credit getting all these players on long term contracts which basically ensures the owners line their pockets when we sell them a year later but he hasn't done anything whatsoever about what our glaring issue was last season and now in this. Lack of goals from midfield and a striker in the pelle mould who would hold the ball up and dominate opposing defences. If it appears he's made an error in judgement on our current manager then he needs to pack his bags.

 

Need to get van djik back into this team as it needs a leader and a figurehead. He's been a complete **** but willing to forget that for now if he puts it in on the pitch.

[Jonnyboy]

Thirteen competitive home fixtures since the start of 2017 and we have scored in 3. We have scored 5 goals at home in 2017, in these competitive games, three of them in one match.

 

Ten blank sheets. We've got eight more home fixtures this year, if that ends up being 6 blanks and 2 games with home goals, we will be in an awful lot of trouble.

 

Absolutely woeful.

 

What's the stats on this? It's got to be some kind of record if it continues?

[OttawaSaint]

Claude is probably sipping a nice cognac, raising it to Saints and saying, "encoulez vous!".

[verlaine1979]

That's a stretch. Watford were big and powerful with a bit of pace on the break, but they weren't particularly good, both their goals came from long range shots from (poorly) cleared set pieces clearly more entertaining to watch than saints, at the moment, but then so is wet paint drying...

 

Would be a mistake to say that Watford simply overpowered us, though the difference in strength and pace was significant. Chalobah looked a vastly more accomplished footballer than anyone in our side, while Richarlison and Carillo both showed better touch and movement (especially movement) than any of our attacking players. They looked a better organised, stronger team, but their best individuals also put ours in the shade today.

 

Lemina will add dynamism to the midfield, but we'll still be a comparatively slow, weak side even when he starts.

[Spoonman]

F*ck sake, Watford at f*cking home.

If we continue failing to feed our striker(s) we are snookered.

MP needs to sort this and earn his corn, once he does we'll be grand.

[Super_Uwe]

Worrying result, I'm not sure we've had two consecutive home performances like that for quite a while now? Certainly not happened often in the post-administration era, if at all.

 

Not sure we're quite at 04/05 season levels yet, but it is beginning to have that sort of feel to it already. Hopefully though we can turn the corner and the goals will begin to flow.

 

Ironically that year we also won our second league game 3-2 v Blackburn - took the lead, cocked it up and won the game with a last min penalty...sound familiar?

[macca155]

Well that was desperate...... again! Thought the defence was ok Stephen's clearly benefited from being next to Hoedt and showed his class. Hoedt is a big lump CH and did his job. Cedric was our best player for what that's worth.

 

That's it the rest were poor. Forster has to be rested his mobility is terrible he just cannot get down quick enough. Just look how good Gomez was as a comparison, and he is average for the PL.

 

Saints don't score goals because the midfield is too easily bossed. Chalabah owned the pitch today and Romeo had no answer.

 

Tadic Boufel JWP Redmond all have their skills but together they are lightweight. We could have Messi and Neymar up front and they would see too little of the ball to score.

 

We all see know that VVD should have been sold early doors but principles always have consequences. No point crying about it just need to man up and sort it out.

 

The team needs to fight for the midfield and play a simpler more direct game. Push the oppo back and let our forwards do their job.

 

Crucially Saints need to put a bigger team out. Start from there and then build.

 

How about

 

McCarthy

 

Cedric

VVD

Hoedt

Bertrand

 

Stephens

Lemina

Romeu

McQueen

 

Long

Gabbi

 

Bit of a pedestrian team but have to start somewhere and that lot will at least hold their own in Midfield.

 

Oh and try shooting occasionally.

 

Manager isn't feeling the love from me yet.

 

 

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Edited 9 September, 2017 by macca155

[Forester]

As I said on another thread, that was as poor a performance of aimless long ball football as I have seen since Branfoot days. Only the away defeat to Midget Land gets close.

 

We have sacked a manager who produces some boring but usually undefeated displays at home, and some hood displays away, took us to Wembley without conceding a goal and finished eight. We all understand why, some will agree and others like me disagree.

 

However what is clear is that this manager has made an awful start. We have won once in five games, stoppage time penalty against ten men, been outplayed by Wolves Reserves, outclassed by ten men in the second half against Wet Spam, outclassed in first half by Udders and outclassed throughout by Watford today.

 

MP is being paid big bucks, we paid compensation to poor Puel, and MP has days and days now of no midweek football to distract from his coaching skills. Massive uplift is expected on last season with a dozen or so fewer matches to navigate.

 

Only if you were not at the five games so far can you be unconcerned. We are yet to play anyone who finished above us last season. Unless there is huge change we will be in a relegation battle. I hope he turns it around, and he has a fully fit squad to do so with. But the early signs are very worrying. I could see what Puel was doing, not always popular but it was clear. This season so far is all over the shop

[Graffito]

At least Cedric put in a shift thank goodness…Did the first goal take a deflection?

 

I thought it took a deflection.

[Pilchards]

As I said on another thread, that was as poor a performance of aimless long ball football as I have seen since Branfoot days. Only the away defeat to Midget Land gets close.

 

We have sacked a manager who produces some boring but usually undefeated displays at home, and some hood displays away, took us to Wembley without conceding a goal and finished eight. We all understand why, some will agree and others like me disagree.

 

However what is clear is that this manager has made an awful start. We have won once in five games, stoppage time penalty against ten men, been outplayed by Wolves Reserves, outclassed by ten men in the second half against Wet Spam, outclassed in first half by Udders and outclassed throughout by Watford today.

 

MP is being paid big bucks, we paid compensation to poor Puel, and MP has days and days now of no midweek football to distract from his coaching skills. Massive uplift is expected on last season with a dozen or so fewer matches to navigate.

 

Only if you were not at the five games so far can you be unconcerned. We are yet to play anyone who finished above us last season. Unless there is huge change we will be in a relegation battle. I hope he turns it around, and he has a fully fit squad to do so with. But the early signs are very worrying. I could see what Puel was doing, not always popular but it was clear. This season so far is all over the shop

 

 

Well said and and it's scary how **** we've become.

[Adkins' Bus]

Was concerned when I saw the line up with JWP and Davis in the side, it never ends well. And with Romeu also out of sorts it resulted in complete disaster. I cant remember seeing such an inept central midfield display. Watford just waltzed through the middle of the pitch time and time again. We were out muscled, out paced and out fought all over the park. I expected at a minimum Lamina to come on at half time but tadic for jwp didn't address the issue at all, suggesting that the manager couldn't see what was happening. That is most concerning. Have to hope he watches it back and has a plan to address the issues.

[Graffito]

Watford. At home. And we play like a timid away side. I'm not a critical poster generally but that was utter crap. Biggest disappointment, of many, was that we didn't compete. Where are the winners in that side?

[Portugalsaint]

Left wanting. No more. Even Krueger got up and left 10 minutes or so before the end had he seen enough?

[Saint Billy]

So maybe it wasn't Claude's fault last year that we only finished 8th and got to a cup final.

 

Well yes it was but we have simply replaced Puel with like for like.