Saints 0 Watford 2 - Match & Meltdown

[sammysaint]

**** game, **** attacking wingers, **** defending for both goals, FF could maybe have done better with the first.

 

Lets go 442 or something next week and play Long and Austin up top with Gabba off the bench, have Lemina starting and try something new, I really feel sorry for MP he is trying to get his style across and he goes for it when we are losing by chucking on his attacking options and we still can't do ****.

[Convict Colony]

Can some one explain what the manager is trying to do with the formation that is different from "defensive" claude's one ?

 

They both pick the same people and play the same formation so what's changed ?

[northam soul]

Well thank you saints another 320 miles for possibly the most pathetic performance ever.

[UpweySaint]

Bloody hard watch that!

 

Few things, nobody came out with much credit on our end but it would be wrong to try and blame the loss on individuals. Though I do fancy VVD may have made those clearances a little more convincingly.

 

Watford had a game plan and executed well. They deserve credit. They were dire under Mazzari but Silva has got them playing better football as most expected he would. Decent enough fans too.

 

The big concern for me was that, rather like under Puel, I cannot fathom what our plan is. I think it is far too soon to be getting knives out for the manager and he does need time to really influence our style of play. I hope that with more time and a boost of confidence the good football may come back. Our squad isn't dross. I do rather miss the days of Poch when we knew how we would play (even if the idea was he had no plan B, I would kill for a plan A these days!).

[austsaint]

We should start James Ward-Prowse more often.

 

I assume that comment is a send up....he touched the ball once in the first half before being substituted.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Thanks Saints...ruined my holiday (streaming here in Barbados so slightly joking lol). Gotta say we were pants and I've also gotta say told you so...buy too many Championship or lower quality strikers/midfield and this is the result.

[LGTL]

That was worse than anything under Puel.

 

Whole squad needs a shake up. Tadic, Redmond, JWP, Davis and Boufal aren't good enough and will never score enough from midfield. Forster needed dropping about a year ago. If I was Gabbiadini I'd be furious too.

 

Shambles

[LeBizzier69]

That was a men's side playing an under 12s in an exhibition match. Had to leave on 80 minutes sadly. Gutted. We're in serious trouble this season and nothing that any "we hate bedwetters" posters can say will make me change my mind. A top 6 side would have hit us for 6 easily.

[stknowle]

Never started a thread before but the inexplicable disappearance of the PMRT this season has forced my hand.................

 

Anyway, my good god that was awful today. AWFUL. We have some serious serious issues to sort. ONE goal from open play in TWELVE matches, basically a third of a season. FFS.

[CWD]

Very, very poor. What is the plan? What are the tactics? We look completely directionless.

 

This may seem knee jerk but I'm worried about this season. I think the 5 points we've got so far are flattering and I don't feel confident of beating anyone.

[bpsaint]

It was because of ****e like that last season that I gave up my ST, can't believe we've actually gone backwards compared to the dross under Puel.

 

we look so weak in midfield, we miss Wanyama and Morgan terribly. Romeu is good but he just isn't on the same level as those two. We need some strong 6ft+ burly black guys in the middle as our team of short arses just don't cut it. JWP wouldn't get a look in at most othe teams, it's only as he is the poster boy for our academy that he features. Davis is aging and clearly going

backwards, and Boufal is the most ineffective waste of money this team has had.

 

if MP can't get this squad working together and producing some results we will be fighting relegation this year for sure.

[Cabrone]

So after 5 games we have scored in 1. In fact in our last 9 home games we have scored in just 1. Outside of the West Ham game the last home goal was scored on 5th April. Pathetic.

 

I'd be a bit more accepting if I thought we were improving, creating chances and looking lively but we aren't. Today we managed 1 shot on target against a mid table (at best) outfit at home.

 

Whilst it's not MP's fault he has inherited a lot of frustration from the dismal fare served up last season the fans patience is already running thin now. He must get those goals flowing or face the chop.

 

As I posted in a previous thread when you only have 2 real goal scorers (forget Shane 'but he runs a lot' Long) and one of them (i.e. Charlie Austin) isn't even picked then it's hardly surprising the goals are ball achingly rare.

 

Gabbi and Charlie are top class finishers but the manager doesn't appear to want us to score for some reason.

 

Someone needs to remind him that football is entertainment and that fans want to see some goals.

 

I don't give a toss if Charlie doesn't run enough - we need goals and he scores if given a bloody chance. Change the damn system if you have to, this midfield has proven time after time that it cannot score so give our front 2 the service that they are crying out for and let them get on with it.

 

4-4-2 with Austin\Gabbi up front please. I'd even put Long behind them, anything to get the damn goals flowing.

[Dalek2003]

We're in a relegation fight this season, absolute ****e in most games this season.

 

That kind of talk by the Dalek would result in a refraction. IMO it is the failure to replace Pelle and Mane which is the root of the problem. Complacency started setting in some time ago. Can't blame Katarina for selling when she did. The party is over.

[Saint86]

Never started a thread before but the inexplicable disappearance of the PMRT this season has forced my hand.................

 

Anyway, my good god that was awful today. AWFUL. We have some serious serious issues to sort. ONE goal from open play in TWELVE matches, basically a third of a season. FFS.

 

Its fine mate don't worry. We signed 2CB's and a defensive midfielder to help us score

[ooh it's a corner]

Thirteen competitive home fixtures since the start of 2017 and we have scored in 3. We have scored 5 goals at home in 2017, in these competitive games, three of them in one match.

 

Ten blank sheets. We've got eight more home fixtures this year, if that ends up being 6 blanks and 2 games with home goals, we will be in an awful lot of trouble.

 

Absolutely woeful.

[ally_uk]

Agreed it was terrible.

Gk is like a tree on a golf course....

Davis / Ward Prowse offer nothing to lightweight not creative enough.

Boufal all tricks no end product

Redmond doesn't understand the concept of passing.

Gabba probably our most talented player isolated up top.

 

No shape to the team or style of playing in terms on threatening other teams forget about it. I would give this manager 5 more games tops.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Only Saints could turn a Lamborghini into a Robin Reliant.

[Bobbyboy]

Before the start of the season we visited the UK and I bought the new shirt. Thinking now the new shirt is comfortably the only good thing so far this season.

[benjii]

That kind of talk by the Dalek would result in a refraction. IMO it is the failure to replace Pelle and Mane which is the root of the problem. Complacency started setting in some time ago. Can't blame Katarina for selling when she did. The party is over.

 

I think you can trace all this back to the failure to appoint Hoddle some time ago.

[doddisalegend]

Fecking awful from start to finish far worse than anything we served up last season. MoPe still doesn't seem to have actually improved anything yet.

 

 

 

We were second best all over the pitch but worst of all in midfield where we were just out muscled.

 

 

 

More concerning was the constant hoofing today like we were trying to hit the channels for a pacey striker even though we didn't have one on the pitch until late in the game.

[striker]

So after 5 games we have scored in 1. In fact in our last 9 home games we have scored in just 1. Outside of the West Ham game the last home goal was scored on 5th April. Pathetic.

 

I'd be a bit more accepting if I thought we were improving, creating chances and looking lively but we aren't. Today we managed 1 shot on target against a mid table (at best) outfit at home.

 

Whilst it's not MP's fault he has inherited a lot of frustration from the dismal fare served up last season the fans patience is already running thin now. He must get those goals flowing or face the chop.

 

As I posted in a previous thread when you only have 2 real goal scorers (forget Shane 'but he runs a lot' Long) and one of them (i.e. Charlie Austin) isn't even picked then it's hardly surprising the goals are ball achingly rare.

 

Gabbi and Charlie are top class finishers but the manager doesn't appear to want us to score for some reason.

 

Someone needs to remind him that football is entertainment and that fans want to see some goals.

 

I don't give a toss if Charlie doesn't run enough - we need goals and he scores if given a bloody chance. Change the damn system if you have to, this midfield has proven time after time that it cannot score so give our front 2 the service that they are crying out for and let them get on with it.

 

4-4-2 with Austin\Gabbi up front please. I'd even put Long behind them, anything to get the damn goals flowing.

 

+1. My sentiments exactly. What has that great "extra pace" gotten us. If we don't score we can't win. Puel came to this conclusion eventually too.

[Simon3737]

I think Forster, Redmond and Boufal are simply not good enough. Tadic is playing badly, but we know he can be good enough.

 

Redmond and Boufal are simply not intelligent enough for Premier League football imho. The waste oportunities and slow down the whole team.

 

I think Forster has something physically wrong. I used to work with someone with a trapped nerve in her back who walked like Fraser does. I've read about some players overdoing muscle build-up and losing flexibility, so maybe it's that. I'd be interested to hear what a physio says about him. McCarthy has to be tried at Palace surely.

 

I think we missed Lemina today. We have to play with Romeu, Lemina, Davis and Gabbi as often as possible imho. It's the other 2 forward positions that are letting us down.

 

I'm willing to give Tadic a chance on the left as some on here think he just can't play centre or right. Otherwise, I'd try Sam McQueen in front of Bertrand.

 

I'd play Long on the right. For his pace and workrate, rather than clinical finishing. I think he could be similar to pre-injury JayRod and could be a good support for Gabbi.

[Guan 2.0]

Simply dreadful. Nothing wrong with 1 up front if the two behind are fast and intuitive. But our 'style' of play doesn't enable it. Oh and great to see another example of #5MoreYearsOfForster

 

 

 

[Red]

Can some one explain what the manager is trying to do with the formation that is different from "defensive" claude's one ?

 

They both pick the same people and play the same formation so what's changed ?

 

This!

 

Also, I can understand we can lose, be unlucky, have lesser skilled players etc. (c/f to Watford that's a stretch I grant you), but when our highly payed players did not bother, and to me seemed unfit, lacking confidence, frightened to shot, and swatted aside like flies by the opposition players and pretty much clueless - it is extremely worrying and unforgivable. Every single players wages today should be docked and donated to charity.

 

A shameful display, and struggling to thing of watching a worse (and cowardly) performance in nearly 40 years of supporting Saints.

[Strangely Brown]

Bloody hard watch that!

 

Few things, nobody came out with much credit on our end but it would be wrong to try and blame the loss on individuals. Though I do fancy VVD may have made those clearances a little more convincingly.

 

Watford had a game plan and executed well. They deserve credit. They were dire under Mazzari but Silva has got them playing better football as most expected he would. Decent enough fans too.

 

The big concern for me was that, rather like under Puel, I cannot fathom what our plan is. I think it is far too soon to be getting knives out for the manager and he does need time to really influence our style of play. I hope that with more time and a boost of confidence the good football may come back. Our squad isn't dross. I do rather miss the days of Poch when we knew how we would play (even if the idea was he had no plan B, I would kill for a plan A these days!).

 

I agree I was at a complete loss trying to work out what the system was and the players look like they are still trying to work it out themselves. No bones about that was poor today very poor indeed

[Dalek2003]

I think you can trace all this back to the failure to appoint Hoddle some time ago.

 

It was the reason we got....oh no, can't say that!

[wessex saint]

On my way back from simply the worst performance in a long time.

Is Forster unlucky that every single shot on target is a worldly or is he just ****?

Tactically clueless against an average side.

Our coaches have taken decent players and coached the talent out of them. Dreadful.

 

 

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[Stepgar]

Horrendous is an understatement. So disjointed. Very worrying season ahead to be honest. Struggled to break down Swansea, barely beat 10 man West Ham. (Needed 2 pens), lost easily to Wolves reserves with our mixed 11 drew to Huddersfield and now lost convincingly to Watford. Can some one genuinely point out the psositives.?

[shurlock]

I've seen the morbidly obese get down quicker for a stick of celery than Forster get down to stop a shot.

Edited 9 September, 2017 by shurlock

[grezz]

We got battered in the central midfield area and had no idea when we had the ball (which wasn't often). Feel for Gabby. The guy doesn't stand a chance

[S-Clarke]

There are bad performances, and then there is THAT. What in the actual **** was that? A disjointed and hideous watch for 45mins, as Watford pummeled us and exploited our non-entity of a midfield.

 

Romeu had a nightmare today, and when your one and only midfielder with any physicality about him has an off day, you are dead. Which we were. It was like watching the powderpuff girls with Davis, JWP and Boufal trying to impact the game at times.

 

This was a long way away from anything we have dished up so far this season, it was unfathomable how bad we were today really. Not sure how many more chances Boufal needs before he adjusts to this league, but as time goes on he's looking more and more like another expensive number 10 failure for us.

 

Not much more to say really, other than that we'd have been beaten by a non-league side today. Lots and lots of thinking required by the players and the management after that - just what were we trying to achieve today?

[Convict Colony]

bbc report says it all really "Cedric Soares had Saints' only shot on target in the match, a 30-yard effort saved in injury time."

[Toomer]

That has got to be one of the worst performances I have had the misfortune to watch, no creativity, no one prepared to have a go from outside the box we keep trying to walk the ball in. We should try Austin up top with Gabby in the number ten spot behind him., and we have a keeper that should be commanding his box.

[Saint_clark]

As I said on the Huddersfield post match thread...no surprise that we looked instantly more of a threat with long up front for me.

 

Maintain my opinion that Gabbiadini isn't suited to this team and we either need to play two up top or drop him for Austin.

[Wes Tender]

I will allow a degree of latitude, that because of the internationals and the distances that some had to travel, there might have been an element of discretion played by Pellegrino in his team selection as a result. But that is the only excuse allowable for that crock of sh*te performance, where hardly any of our players came away with much credit. As others have said, what is the discernible difference from Puel?

 

Pre-match, Silva worried about Saints' quality international players, but obviously had a tactical game plan to negate our advantages, but ultimately it came down to Watford's team comprising of bigger, stronger players dominating the midfield, bullying our lightweights off the ball. Because we did not control the midfield, we were unable to feed any telling balls up front to Gabbiabini, so no shots on goal at all.

 

Why didn't we play Lemina next to Romeu? Was he not 100%? He would have added some muscle there and a bit of finesse with his passing too. Why didn't we stretch the midfield by playing with width, which is what I thought Pellegrino had in mind? When we were chasing the game, why did we hesitate to put two strikers on, only wasting 5 minutes having taken Gabbiadini off before we had Long and Austin on? But then again, why take off Gabbiadini without gifting him the opportunity to have a strike partner on with him, even if only for 15 minutes or so to see how it pans out? Perhaps we should just play 4-4-2 instead.

 

But the really unforgivable aspect of the game is that Watford's desire was far greater than Southampton's. Where was the closing down of every player with the ball? Where was the desire to win the ball back if a player lost it? Where was the hunting in packs high up in Watford's half. Where was the movement, the one touch quick passing?

 

Why play the likes of Boufal, Tadic and Redmond together?

 

Pellegrino said pre-match that the squad spirit was very good, so he was encouraged. What is it like now, after we have been bested by a team like Watford? How much longer do we long-suffering fans have to suffer this dismal dearth of goals from open play at a home match? The Gabbiadini one against West Ham being the first in how many minutes of play now? How long do we have to go back in our history until we have had a worse home record than this?

[hasper57saint]

Well thank you saints another 320 miles for possibly the most pathetic performance ever.

We gave up our season tickets last season and like you,a 360 miles return trip for that dross is never worth it.

[Professor]

The one man who matters is Pellegrino, but fortunately, he's not alone. We can be certain that the coaching staff will be studying this result, and not just from the memory of watching from the stands, awful as that was, but they'll have to relive it over and over again as they analyse videos of the match. We won't learn much from what he says in public, as the manager won't want to demoralise his players but I think we can be sure that a lot will be said in private. As fans, we might get some indication from next week's selection because it does look like there need to be changes. Perhaps the problem is that some of our players are simply not as good as we think they are. Are we being fooled by players being picked for international teams into over-rating some of them?

 

Brighton did better against Watford a couple of weeks ago and they won at home today with a team that is significantly inferior to ours on paper. We could even be below them after next week. We have already thrown away the easy start we were given by the fixture list and I'm sure that will be concentrating the manager's mind very thoroughly.

[trousers]

Just back from the game...

 

Dreadful performance from us coupled with a good display from Watford.

 

Watford were industrious, physical and full of energy.

 

We were lethargic, weak and slow.

 

I'm struggling to understand why Lemina didn't start, let alone not feature at all. Our midfield was lightweight, and Watford's was bulky and powerful. We were crying out for someone of Lemina's ilk to give us some physical presence, but on the bench he remained. Bizarre.

 

Also, I maintain my pre-match stance that we should have thrown Van Dijk back into the team. Sod the fact that he's not 'match fit'. He gives the team confidence and makes things tick. Exactly what we're missing. Chuck him in versus Palace next week. End of.

 

As always, it's too early in the season for knee jerk reactions, but I suspect that won't stop the usual SaintsWeb Forum machine cranking into action. (I've not read any other posts yet, just a wild hunch...)

 

Still, it could be worse... we could have lost 3 nil at home having spent a fortune over the summer. Nice one Ronald

Edited 9 September, 2017 by trousers

[Saint WGC]

Not sure what the answer is regarding our lack of quality in the final third. Bearing in mind, realistically Van Dijk will not be sticking around after this season and we need to continue to develop Jack Stephens alongside Yoshida or Hoedt, what I'm going to suggest maybe utter rubbish but here goes. Why do we not consider using Van Dijk as a makeshift target man up front and going more direct, still playing Gabbiadini as well. Or play Van Dijk as a central midfield player, he can pass the ball, is technically good, has the ability to shoot from distance, like I say, that may be a poor idea but is it really a worse option to try than the ones that seem to fail to work most weeks at the moment.

 

No matter what most of us think about his behaviour, he is a quality player and I think he is a huge threat and presence in the opposition box as well as being a really good defensive option at set pieces which we do not look totally secure at defending at present. I would like us to be a bit more direct with our wingers actually putting some decent balls into the box rather than turning inside all the time and going sideways. We are stuck with these players until January now so need to get by but the current set up and system is just not working. I kind of think that it is unfair on him to replace Jack or Yoshida when there are certain players further forward who offer us nothing and are not performing to the level required.

 

Maybe this would upset some of the players but I think they need a big kick up the backside and maybe made to realise they are not automatic choices.

[Toomer]

God help us against United if we put in a performance like that.

[Kingsland Red]

That was worse than anything under Puel.

 

Whole squad needs a shake up. Tadic, Redmond, JWP, Davis and Boufal aren't good enough and will never score enough from midfield. Forster needed dropping about a year ago. If I was Gabbiadini I'd be furious too.

 

Shambles

 

This, and if they don't step up soon Pellegrino will have to set up to keep a clean sheet and hope for a lucky goal, just like Puel ended up doing.

[Window Cleaner]

This, and if they don't step up soon Pellegrino will have to set up to keep a clean sheet and hope for a lucky goal, just like Puel ended up doing.

 

Sounds like a top plan actually, winning 1-0 is by far better than losing 5-4. All sport is about winning, it's the name of the game, if you want entertainment go to the cinema.

[Give it to Ron]

Same sh1t different manager playing sh1t formation with players not good enough.

Did Pellegrino actually believe Davis and JWP were going to magically come up with a performance ?

Wtf did Tadic for JWP achieve replacing a slow weak non goal scorer for another who has done nothing for months.

The formation doesnt work the manager knows it but scared to change and substitution by numbers.

FFS at least try Long and Gabbi give midfield something to aim at.

We get the full backs wide with 1 v 6 and gave 6 back.

 

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[beatlesaint]

Watford totally bossed that game. MP can try and console himself by saying we were better second half but it made no difference. They were miles better.

 

I found it rather strange that MP said on Solent he is here because we didn't score goals under the last manager yet plays exactly the same way with a decent centre forward isolated on his own up front with no service or help whatsoever.

[Saint Billy]

Makes you wonder whether it would have been better to have flogged VVD and forked out the 70 mill into seriously rebuilding this shower, at least half the side are not up to the job and now we are stuck with them.

 

I am not going to blame the manager.................. Just yet.

[OttawaSaint]

Something is seriously wrong. We don't have an ounce of confidence, players look frustrated and out of sorts. I wonder if there are a number of cliques in the dressing room, there is no togetherness being shown on the pitch.

 

The best we've looked this season was a 10 minute spell against Huddersfield when we had McQueen and Long on the field. We need to sit a few underperformers like Redmond, JWP, Boufal, Forster and bring in players willing to get us out of this funk we are in.

 

Playing the same formation as last year isn't helping either, what's the point getting a new guy if he doesn't have a formation, style and game plan?

[DuncanRG]

That was really worrying. Lacking energy, soft in midfield and couldn't do the basics properly.

 

There's only so much you can say about personnel when the whole team's as poor as that. It's the manager's responsibility, so let's see the reaction next week.

[OttawaSaint]

Watford showed us exactly what we were missing. Decisiveness. Both goals, both players had one thing on their mind, to hammer the ball goalward and on target.

 

Possibly, Our best chance fell to Tadic, the far corner was open to curl it but he hesitated, cut outside, hesitated again, tried a half hearted pass and then fell over holding his leg pretending to be hurt.

 

You don't score if you don't believe you can score, we have no one willing to try because they don't even believe they can score.

[CanadaSaint]

We are serial over-elaborators and we crowd ourselves out on the flanks, so we have no choice but to stop, turn and go back. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

 

How often do we play the early ball inside the defender, get around the back, and play the early cross?

 

The defence is well-set before we ever get the ball in, if we ever do.

 

And Forster is exactly what I thought he was when we bought him - a lumbering hulk who can't get down to low shots and doesn't make his size count on crosses.

[Window Cleaner]

Makes you wonder whether it would have been better to have flogged VVD and forked out the 70 mill into seriously rebuilding this shower, at least half the side are not up to the job and now we are stuck with them.

 

I am not going to blame the manager.................. Just yet.

 

No question really, we should have sold him for anything over 60 million payable in a reasonable time. As we've seemingly been sold to a group with not much readies then we need to go back to selling to finance top notch offensive players instead of buying bang average players like Boufal.